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HDR pano of interior of church

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  • novossiltzeffr
    Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 22, 2012
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      Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the messages!
      But here it goes...
      I've jumped into this specialty with reasonable results so far with PTGui pro, a Pentax K5 with a DA 10-17mm FE but I have hit on a problem: an HDR full 360x180 pano of the interior of a very well known church here. The interior is dark - with its full lighting - and the beautiful stained glass windows are still too bright - even on an overcast day - to come out nice and crisp; EV range is close to 10 (hand held meter) and I can't get a good rendition on those windows with various in camera brackets.
      Am I fighting a loosing battle here (I'm not willing nor qualified for high end PP!) or does someone have a super duper comment/suggestion?
      Thanks a lot from Nova Scotia Canada, and also, thanks for all the great information provided by this group.
    • Briar
      Can you post images so we can look at them? From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of novossiltzeffr Sent: Thursday,
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 22, 2012
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        Can you post images so we can look at them?

         

        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of novossiltzeffr
        Sent: Thursday, 23 August 2012 1:01 p.m.
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] HDR pano of interior of church

         

         

        Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the messages!
        But here it goes...
        I've jumped into this specialty with reasonable results so far with PTGui pro, a Pentax K5 with a DA 10-17mm FE but I have hit on a problem: an HDR full 360x180 pano of the interior of a very well known church here. The interior is dark - with its full lighting - and the beautiful stained glass windows are still too bright - even on an overcast day - to come out nice and crisp; EV range is close to 10 (hand held meter) and I can't get a good rendition on those windows with various in camera brackets.
        Am I fighting a loosing battle here (I'm not willing nor qualified for high end PP!) or does someone have a super duper comment/suggestion?
        Thanks a lot from Nova Scotia Canada, and also, thanks for all the great information provided by this group.

      • Henrik
        hello Nova Scotia, from Perth Western Australia 1) show us where you are at, with an image, screen shots etc 2) what camera settings the images were shot at.
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 22, 2012
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          hello Nova Scotia, from Perth Western Australia

          1) show us where you are at, with an image, screen shots etc

          2) what camera settings the images were shot at.

          3) why do you entering into shooting HDR if you do not feel you have the necessary knowledge to do so? (this may sound rude, but that is what I gathered from your post that you do not have much experience with Post Processing)

          4) suggestions - your shots should have covered the whole dynamic range of the scene, not always an easy task with standard camera's

          PTGui Pro can help you along the HDR/Fusion path but you need to have shot the images properly for it to give you a great result - so sshow us the images and we can work from here and help you get your image done - or reshoot :-)

          all the best
           
          Henrik Tived

          ----- Original Message -----
          From:
          PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

          To:
          <PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc:

          Sent:
          Thu, 23 Aug 2012 01:01:15 -0000
          Subject:
          [PanoToolsNG] HDR pano of interior of church


          Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the messages!
          But here it goes...
          I've jumped into this specialty with reasonable results so far with PTGui pro, a Pentax K5 with a DA 10-17mm FE but I have hit on a problem: an HDR full 360x180 pano of the interior of a very well known church here. The interior is dark - with its full lighting - and the beautiful stained glass windows are still too bright - even on an overcast day - to come out nice and crisp; EV range is close to 10 (hand held meter) and I can't get a good rendition on those windows with various in camera brackets.
          Am I fighting a loosing battle here (I'm not willing nor qualified for high end PP!) or does someone have a super duper comment/suggestion?
          Thanks a lot from Nova Scotia Canada, and also, thanks for all the great information provided by this group.




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        • Robert C. Fisher
          What I usually do in difficult situations like that is to shoot 2 sets of brackets or with my Nikon I could shoot 9 images in a bracket. With my Canon I can
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 22, 2012
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            What I usually do in difficult situations like that is to shoot 2 sets of brackets or with my Nikon I could shoot 9 images in a bracket. With my Canon I can only shoot 3 images 2 stops apart or less. I would shoot 1 set at the median say 60th of a second then the median for the lower set, to get the over exposed detail in the windows, about 4 stops faster shutter speed. You could also tether the camera and use a control app that can do extended bracket sets.
            Then you can use the first set of exposures in an exposure fusion app to get a decent interior exposure  stitch the pano and find the set of images where the windows are properly exposed, stitch those and mask the windows into the first pano.

            On Aug 22, 2012, at 6:01 PM, novossiltzeffr wrote:

             

            Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the messages!
            But here it goes...
            I've jumped into this specialty with reasonable results so far with PTGui pro, a Pentax K5 with a DA 10-17mm FE but I have hit on a problem: an HDR full 360x180 pano of the interior of a very well known church here. The interior is dark - with its full lighting - and the beautiful stained glass windows are still too bright - even on an overcast day - to come out nice and crisp; EV range is close to 10 (hand held meter) and I can't get a good rendition on those windows with various in camera brackets.
            Am I fighting a loosing battle here (I'm not willing nor qualified for high end PP!) or does someone have a super duper comment/suggestion?
            Thanks a lot from Nova Scotia Canada, and also, thanks for all the great information provided by this group.


            Cheers
            Robert C. Fisher
            VR Photography / Cinematography
            Facebook - Robert C. Fisher




          • John Houghton
            I took this panorama in conditions that closely match yours. http://tinyurl.com/5v76wp7 The interior was extremely dim at one end and brightly lit at the
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 23, 2012
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              I took this panorama in conditions that closely match yours.

              http://tinyurl.com/5v76wp7

              The interior was extremely dim at one end and brightly lit at the other. I shot it using the Tokina 10-17mm at 14mm on a Canon 40D at 3sec f/8, +/-2EV. When I returned home and did the stitch, blending the three blend planes together manually, the very bright windows were disappointing. So I returned to the church a week later and took handheld shots of the windows from the approximate original tripod position using 1/100sec f/8 (so the total brightness range was similar to yours). These were aligned in PTGui using viewpoint correction and manually merged into the panorama in Photoshop using layer masks. Getting the balance right is difficult; it's hard to avoid a slightly artificial look.

              John


              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "novossiltzeffr" <novossiltzeff@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the messages!
              > But here it goes...
              > I've jumped into this specialty with reasonable results so far with PTGui pro, a Pentax K5 with a DA 10-17mm FE but I have hit on a problem: an HDR full 360x180 pano of the interior of a very well known church here. The interior is dark - with its full lighting - and the beautiful stained glass windows are still too bright - even on an overcast day - to come out nice and crisp; EV range is close to 10 (hand held meter) and I can't get a good rendition on those windows with various in camera brackets.
              > Am I fighting a loosing battle here (I'm not willing nor qualified for high end PP!) or does someone have a super duper comment/suggestion?
              > Thanks a lot from Nova Scotia Canada, and also, thanks for all the great information provided by this group.
              >
            • panovrx
              Sometimes you need to combine bracketing with variable raw processing within each exposure level. Modern stitching softwares will do a good job of blending
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 23, 2012
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                Sometimes you need to combine bracketing with variable raw processing within each exposure level. Modern stitching softwares will do a good job of blending changing "virtual exposures" within a constant exposure layer so long as you change the effective EV gradually around the panorama. This art installation of giant syrofoam chains in a dim factory interior was sunlit in parts and very dark elsewhere. It is mainly a single exposure panorama with variable EV raw processing. The very lightest and darkest sections are from separate exposure layers
                http://www.mediavr.com/chains/chains.htm

                PeterM

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "novossiltzeffr" <novossiltzeff@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the messages!
                > But here it goes...
                > I've jumped into this specialty with reasonable results so far with PTGui pro, a Pentax K5 with a DA 10-17mm FE but I have hit on a problem: an HDR full 360x180 pano of the interior of a very well known church here. The interior is dark - with its full lighting - and the beautiful stained glass windows are still too bright - even on an overcast day - to come out nice and crisp; EV range is close to 10 (hand held meter) and I can't get a good rendition on those windows with various in camera brackets.
                > Am I fighting a loosing battle here (I'm not willing nor qualified for high end PP!) or does someone have a super duper comment/suggestion?
                > Thanks a lot from Nova Scotia Canada, and also, thanks for all the great information provided by this group.
                >
              • Roger D Williams
                Peter, that panorama is an amazing tribute to your HDR skills! It manages to look not in the least forced nor unnatural. In my book that makes it a real
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 23, 2012
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                  Peter, that panorama is an amazing tribute to your HDR skills! It manages to look not in the least forced nor unnatural. In my book that makes it a real success. Wow squared!

                  Roger W.

                  Sent from my iPad

                  On Aug 23, 2012, at 6:43 PM, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:

                  > Sometimes you need to combine bracketing with variable raw processing within each exposure level. Modern stitching softwares will do a good job of blending changing "virtual exposures" within a constant exposure layer so long as you change the effective EV gradually around the panorama. This art installation of giant syrofoam chains in a dim factory interior was sunlit in parts and very dark elsewhere. It is mainly a single exposure panorama with variable EV raw processing. The very lightest and darkest sections are from separate exposure layers
                  > http://www.mediavr.com/chains/chains.htm
                  >
                  > PeterM
                  >
                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "novossiltzeffr" <novossiltzeff@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the messages!
                  >> But here it goes...
                  >> I've jumped into this specialty with reasonable results so far with PTGui pro, a Pentax K5 with a DA 10-17mm FE but I have hit on a problem: an HDR full 360x180 pano of the interior of a very well known church here. The interior is dark - with its full lighting - and the beautiful stained glass windows are still too bright - even on an overcast day - to come out nice and crisp; EV range is close to 10 (hand held meter) and I can't get a good rendition on those windows with various in camera brackets.
                  >> Am I fighting a loosing battle here (I'm not willing nor qualified for high end PP!) or does someone have a super duper comment/suggestion?
                  >> Thanks a lot from Nova Scotia Canada, and also, thanks for all the great information provided by this group.
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • A Kielcz
                  Could tell me what equipment did you use? Thank you!   A Kielcz Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A. ________________________________ From: John Houghton
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 23, 2012
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                    Could tell me what equipment did you use?
                    Thank you!
                     
                    A Kielcz
                    Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A.


                    From: John Houghton <j.houghton@...>
                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:32 AM
                    Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: HDR pano of interior of church

                     
                    I took this panorama in conditions that closely match yours.

                    http://tinyurl.com/5v76wp7

                    The interior was extremely dim at one end and brightly lit at the other. I shot it using the Tokina 10-17mm at 14mm on a Canon 40D at 3sec f/8, +/-2EV. When I returned home and did the stitch, blending the three blend planes together manually, the very bright windows were disappointing. So I returned to the church a week later and took handheld shots of the windows from the approximate original tripod position using 1/100sec f/8 (so the total brightness range was similar to yours). These were aligned in PTGui using viewpoint correction and manually merged into the panorama in Photoshop using layer masks. Getting the balance right is difficult; it's hard to avoid a slightly artificial look.

                    John

                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "novossiltzeffr" <novossiltzeff@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the messages!
                    > But here it goes...
                    > I've jumped into this specialty with reasonable results so far with PTGui pro, a Pentax K5 with a DA 10-17mm FE but I have hit on a problem: an HDR full 360x180 pano of the interior of a very well known church here. The interior is dark - with its full lighting - and the beautiful stained glass windows are still too bright - even on an overcast day - to come out nice and crisp; EV range is close to 10 (hand held meter) and I can't get a good rendition on those windows with various in camera brackets.
                    > Am I fighting a loosing battle here (I'm not willing nor qualified for high end PP!) or does someone have a super duper comment/suggestion?
                    > Thanks a lot from Nova Scotia Canada, and also, thanks for all the great information provided by this group.
                    >



                  • AYRTON
                    ... BUT, It s written on the message ! I shot it using the Tokina 10-17mm at 14mm on a Canon 40D at 3sec f/8, +/-2EV
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 23, 2012
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                      On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:35 PM, A Kielcz <roblee007@...> wrote:


                      Could tell me what equipment did you use?
                      Thank you!

                       
                      BUT,
                      It's written on the message !

                       "I shot it using the Tokina 10-17mm at 14mm on a Canon 40D at 3sec f/8, +/-2EV"


                       
                       
                      A Kielcz
                      Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A.


                      From: John Houghton <j.houghton@...>
                      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:32 AM
                      Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: HDR pano of interior of church

                       
                      I took this panorama in conditions that closely match yours.

                      http://tinyurl.com/5v76wp7

                      The interior was extremely dim at one end and brightly lit at the other. I shot it using the Tokina 10-17mm at 14mm on a Canon 40D at 3sec f/8, +/-2EV. When I returned home and did the stitch, blending the three blend planes together manually, the very bright windows were disappointing. So I returned to the church a week later and took handheld shots of the windows from the approximate original tripod position using 1/100sec f/8 (so the total brightness range was similar to yours). These were aligned in PTGui using viewpoint correction and manually merged into the panorama in Photoshop using layer masks. Getting the balance right is difficult; it's hard to avoid a slightly artificial look.

                      John

                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "novossiltzeffr" <novossiltzeff@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the messages!
                      > But here it goes...
                      > I've jumped into this specialty with reasonable results so far with PTGui pro, a Pentax K5 with a DA 10-17mm FE but I have hit on a problem: an HDR full 360x180 pano of the interior of a very well known church here. The interior is dark - with its full lighting - and the beautiful stained glass windows are still too bright - even on an overcast day - to come out nice and crisp; EV range is close to 10 (hand held meter) and I can't get a good rendition on those windows with various in camera brackets.
                      > Am I fighting a loosing battle here (I'm not willing nor qualified for high end PP!) or does someone have a super duper comment/suggestion?
                      > Thanks a lot from Nova Scotia Canada, and also, thanks for all the great information provided by this group.
                      >






                    • twindak748
                      Well John, I d be happy to get that kind of result. Nicely done. The windows look fine as if the church appears to be evenly lit and the stone window frames
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 25, 2012
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                        Well John, I'd be happy to get that kind of result. Nicely done.
                        The windows look fine as if the church appears to be evenly lit and the stone window frames are close to the same colour; in fact the windows look like "paintings". Your rendition is good and I agree that the windows look somewhat "artificial" (that's why gothic style is so successful: lot's of light inside).
                        I have been told yesterday that that sort of subject is better rendered with 5 shots instead of 3 at 2 EV intervals which covers very nicely a spread of 10 EV+ - if it is required, of course. Furthermore, tone mapping doesn't seem adapted for this and Bracketeer 4 is far better (it uses the "enfusion" method that preserves the image data in the "mix" and doesn't use control points which is too critical in very dark areas. You might want to check this out?
                        This is one of my last tests that will show you how dim it is inside that church, I didn't even go as far as add the zenith and nadir…!:
                        https://dl.dropbox.com/u/89281898/_KN15898%20Panorama.mov
                        My objective is a full spherical using Bracketeer first and then stitch the final enfused TIFF images in PTGui. I'll post it when I'm done but I still have a long way to go when I see what is done by others! ( in particular the image by panovrx in message 55228).
                        Richard

                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "John Houghton" <j.houghton@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I took this panorama in conditions that closely match yours.
                        >
                        > http://tinyurl.com/5v76wp7
                        >
                        > The interior was extremely dim at one end and brightly lit at the other. I shot it using the Tokina 10-17mm at 14mm on a Canon 40D at 3sec f/8, +/-2EV. When I returned home and did the stitch, blending the three blend planes together manually, the very bright windows were disappointing. So I returned to the church a week later and took handheld shots of the windows from the approximate original tripod position using 1/100sec f/8 (so the total brightness range was similar to yours). These were aligned in PTGui using viewpoint correction and manually merged into the panorama in Photoshop using layer masks. Getting the balance right is difficult; it's hard to avoid a slightly artificial look.
                        >
                        > John
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "novossiltzeffr" <novossiltzeff@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the messages!
                        > > But here it goes...
                        > > I've jumped into this specialty with reasonable results so far with PTGui pro, a Pentax K5 with a DA 10-17mm FE but I have hit on a problem: an HDR full 360x180 pano of the interior of a very well known church here. The interior is dark - with its full lighting - and the beautiful stained glass windows are still too bright - even on an overcast day - to come out nice and crisp; EV range is close to 10 (hand held meter) and I can't get a good rendition on those windows with various in camera brackets.
                        > > Am I fighting a loosing battle here (I'm not willing nor qualified for high end PP!) or does someone have a super duper comment/suggestion?
                        > > Thanks a lot from Nova Scotia Canada, and also, thanks for all the great information provided by this group.
                        > >
                        >
                      • twindak748
                        Its been a couple of weeks now, but I think I am getting somewhere with this church pano with much better rendition of the stained windows. I followed some
                        Message 11 of 13 , Sep 3, 2012
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                          Its been a couple of weeks now, but I think I am getting somewhere with this church pano with much better rendition of the stained windows. I followed some advice I received including the one on working on the RAW images and then using Bracketeer for each image (5 shots at 2 EV interval). I did that because I have had major control point problems with the darker images of each set, in particular the nadir images and using Bracketeer illuminates that with excellent results. I touched up each of those enfused images individually before stitching them in PTGui pro and here is the result ( I still might have to correct verticals...). Thank you for any comments from this fine group:
                          https://dl.dropbox.com/u/89281898/Enfused%20-%20_KN17400%20Panorama.mov

                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Sometimes you need to combine bracketing with variable raw processing within each exposure level. Modern stitching softwares will do a good job of blending changing "virtual exposures" within a constant exposure layer so long as you change the effective EV gradually around the panorama. This art installation of giant syrofoam chains in a dim factory interior was sunlit in parts and very dark elsewhere. It is mainly a single exposure panorama with variable EV raw processing. The very lightest and darkest sections are from separate exposure layers
                          > http://www.mediavr.com/chains/chains.htm
                          >
                          > PeterM
                          >
                          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "novossiltzeffr" <novossiltzeff@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello to all, this my first post and it refers to HDR which does not seem to call for general approval, after having surfed on this subject through the messages!
                          > > But here it goes...
                          > > I've jumped into this specialty with reasonable results so far with PTGui pro, a Pentax K5 with a DA 10-17mm FE but I have hit on a problem: an HDR full 360x180 pano of the interior of a very well known church here. The interior is dark - with its full lighting - and the beautiful stained glass windows are still too bright - even on an overcast day - to come out nice and crisp; EV range is close to 10 (hand held meter) and I can't get a good rendition on those windows with various in camera brackets.
                          > > Am I fighting a loosing battle here (I'm not willing nor qualified for high end PP!) or does someone have a super duper comment/suggestion?
                          > > Thanks a lot from Nova Scotia Canada, and also, thanks for all the great information provided by this group.
                          > >
                          >
                        • John Houghton
                          ... I think the windows are now rendered quite well, though perhaps at the expense of the interior generally, which is rather muddy/murky (I m not sure of the
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 4, 2012
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                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "twindak748" <novossiltzeff@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Its been a couple of weeks now, but I think I am getting somewhere with this church pano with much better rendition of the stained windows.

                            I think the windows are now rendered quite well, though perhaps at the expense of the interior generally, which is rather muddy/murky (I'm not sure of the best adjective. The image isn't terribly sharp, and you need to correct chromatic aberration in the RAW processing. You are right, too, about the need for levelling. It takes less than a minute to correct during stitching so you should do this as a matter of course. But it's easy enough to level the stitched equirectangular image.

                            John
                          • twindak748
                            I agree, John. I use ACR 6.7 (CS5) for CA corrections and the problem might come from my Pentax FE DA 10-17mm wchich seems prone to that - as I have noticed?
                            Message 13 of 13 , Sep 8, 2012
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                              I agree, John. I use ACR 6.7 (CS5) for CA corrections and the problem might come from my Pentax FE DA 10-17mm wchich seems prone to that - as I have noticed? Since this is all part of my learning curve I will start over, as it seems that I may have over corrected the tiff images before loading them in brackteer (as mentioned, I prefer the windows results done that way). I am getting a better feel for this work with the help of your tutorials (well done indeed) on horizon correction!
                              Richard


                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "John Houghton" <j.houghton@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "twindak748" <novossiltzeff@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Its been a couple of weeks now, but I think I am getting somewhere with this church pano with much better rendition of the stained windows.
                              >
                              > I think the windows are now rendered quite well, though perhaps at the expense of the interior generally, which is rather muddy/murky (I'm not sure of the best adjective. The image isn't terribly sharp, and you need to correct chromatic aberration in the RAW processing. You are right, too, about the need for levelling. It takes less than a minute to correct during stitching so you should do this as a matter of course. But it's easy enough to level the stitched equirectangular image.
                              >
                              > John
                              >
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