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OT: Patents for pano head or tilt head?

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  • fanotec
    Dear Members, I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy. if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc,
    Message 1 of 21 , May 19, 2012
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      Dear Members,

      I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
      if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
      as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.

      Nick

      Nodal Ninja Developer
    • luca vascon
      I never patented anything, but there is a lot of prior art in my drawings, prototypes, etc. I think I second the thoughts of all the elder of this group if I
      Message 2 of 21 , May 20, 2012
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        I never patented anything, but there is a lot of "prior art" in my drawings, prototypes, etc.
        I think I second the thoughts of all the elder of this group if I say that we begin to scratch at the simple hearing the word "patent", after all the iPix issue.
        :-)

        Luca.


        2012/5/20 fanotec <nickfanmn@...>
        Dear Members,

        I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
        if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
        as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.

        Nick

        Nodal Ninja Developer



        ------------------------------------

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        --
        Luca Vascon.

        www.nuovostudio.it
        www.officinepanottiche.com

      • prague
        Luca, a hardware patent is IMO very different from a software patent. Nick, doesn t a patent cost something like $20k to make? $100 reward seems a bit...
        Message 3 of 21 , May 20, 2012
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          Luca, a hardware patent is IMO very different from a software patent.

          Nick, doesn't a patent cost something like $20k to make? $100 reward seems a bit... underwhelming to me.

          At any rate, I don't know of any patents (but I didn't look). I wish you luck, and look forward to seeing your new design! :)

          Jeffrey


          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "fanotec" <nickfanmn@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Members,
          >
          > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
          > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
          > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
          >
          > Nick
          >
          > Nodal Ninja Developer
          >
        • Ken Warner
          Best see a patent attorney Nick. From what I ve read, it s not something to be done casually.
          Message 4 of 21 , May 20, 2012
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            Best see a patent attorney Nick. From what I've read, it's not something to be done casually.

            fanotec wrote:
            > Dear Members,
            >
            > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
            > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
            > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
            >
            > Nick
            >
            > Nodal Ninja Developer
            >
            >
          • fanotec
            Hi Jeffrey, I am not looking for some one to draft a patent for me. I am just look for some prior art references. If any one have read any patent related to
            Message 5 of 21 , May 20, 2012
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              Hi Jeffrey,

              I am not looking for some one to draft a patent for me. I am just look for some prior art references. If any one have read any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, just let me know the patent number to get the discount and enter the lucky draw. I think it is fair enough.
              what do you propose me to offer for such service?

              Nick


              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <panoramas@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Luca, a hardware patent is IMO very different from a software patent.
              >
              > Nick, doesn't a patent cost something like $20k to make? $100 reward seems a bit... underwhelming to me.
              >
              > At any rate, I don't know of any patents (but I didn't look). I wish you luck, and look forward to seeing your new design! :)
              >
              > Jeffrey
              >
              >
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "fanotec" <nickfanmn@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Members,
              > >
              > > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
              > > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
              > > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
              > >
              > > Nick
              > >
              > > Nodal Ninja Developer
              > >
              >
            • fanotec
              Hi Luca, I see a lot of designs that should never be patented. But they is how the current game works. Nick
              Message 6 of 21 , May 20, 2012
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                Hi Luca,

                I see a lot of designs that should never be patented. But they is how the current game works.

                Nick

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, luca vascon <luca.vascon@...> wrote:
                >
                > I never patented anything, but there is a lot of "prior art" in my
                > drawings, prototypes, etc.
                > I think I second the thoughts of all the elder of this group if I say that
                > we begin to scratch at the simple hearing the word "patent", after all the
                > iPix issue.
                > :-)
                >
                > Luca.
                >
                >
                > 2012/5/20 fanotec <nickfanmn@...>
                >
                > > Dear Members,
                > >
                > > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                > > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider
                > > etc, please let me know.
                > > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying
                > > any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky
                > > draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
                > >
                > > Nick
                > >
                > > Nodal Ninja Developer
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > --
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Luca Vascon.
                >
                > www.nuovostudio.it
                > www.officinepanottiche.com
                >
              • MK Panorama Systeme
                Hello: The basic idea behind the patent was to provide the technical progress. If a patent is used to protect themselves in a new development, this is a good
                Message 7 of 21 , May 20, 2012
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                  Hello:

                   

                  The basic idea behind the patent was to provide the technical progress.

                   


                  If a patent is used to protect themselves in a new development, this is a good thing.

                   


                  If a patent is used to impede the free world market with many new ideas from small producers, this would be a shame.

                   


                  Just the last time we have seen many attempts to hinder the development in the beautiful panoramic photography.
                  There are patents and not granted requests ...

                   


                  ... so many photographers had such good luck!!!

                   

                  The market offers so many small hardware and software manufacturers, for which an asset to us all.

                   

                   

                  Best regards from Germany

                   

                  Marc



                  MK PANORAMA SYSTEME

                  Lerchenweg 21a

                  D-21224 Rosengarten

                  Phone +49 (0) 4181 949548

                  Fax +49 (0) 4105 692672

                  Mobil +49 (0) 177 40 66 171

                  info@...

                  www.marc-kairies.de


                  Von: luca vascon <luca.vascon@...>

                  An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                  Betreff: Re: [PanoToolsNG] OT: Patents for pano head or tilt head?

                  Datum: Sun, 20 May 2012 10:01:04 +0200



                   

                  I never patented anything, but there is a lot of "prior art" in my drawings, prototypes, etc.

                  I think I second the thoughts of all the elder of this group if I say that we begin to scratch at the simple hearing the word "patent", after all the iPix issue.
                  :-)
                  Luca.


                  2012/5/20 fanotec <nickfanmn@...>
                  Dear Members,

                  I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                  if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
                  as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.

                  Nick

                  Nodal Ninja Developer



                  ------------------------------------

                  --
                  <*> Wiki: http://wiki.panotools.org
                  <*> User Guidelines: http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
                  <*> Nabble (Web) http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/
                  <*> NG Member Map http://www.panomaps.com/ng
                  <*> Moderators/List Admins: PanoToolsNG-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                  --
                  Luca Vascon.

                  www.nuovostudio.it
                  www.officinepanottiche.com


                • Fernando Chaves
                  Hi, I still have a 3sixty panohead,from Peace River, which is supposed to be patented (I also have and love a NN5 which is the head I actually use). On the
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 20, 2012
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                    Hi,
                    I still have a "3sixty" panohead,from Peace River, which is supposed to be
                    patented (I also have and love a NN5 which is the head I actually use).
                    On the link below you can read about it
                    http://www.vrmag.org/issue15/PEACE_RIVER_STUDIO_S_PIXORB_TRIPOD_HEAD.html
                    Does it worth a $100 discount?
                    Best regards,
                    Fernando


                    On Sun, May 20, 2012 2:54 am, fanotec wrote:
                    > Dear Members,
                    >
                    > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                    > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider
                    > etc, please let me know.
                    > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying
                    > any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky
                    > draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
                    >
                    > Nick
                    >
                    > Nodal Ninja Developer
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > --
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Fernando Chaves
                    Hi, Please check patent number: 5259584. I hope this helps. Fernando
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 20, 2012
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                      Hi,
                      Please check patent number: 5259584.
                      I hope this helps.
                      Fernando

                      On Sun, May 20, 2012 2:54 am, fanotec wrote:
                      > Dear Members,
                      >
                      > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                      > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider
                      > etc, please let me know.
                      > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying
                      > any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky
                      > draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
                      >
                      > Nick
                      >
                      > Nodal Ninja Developer
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > --
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Fernando Chaves
                      Hi, This one is great: Patent number: 2437787 Filing date: Feb 17, 1945 Issue date: Mar 16, 1948 Best regards, Fernando
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 20, 2012
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                        Hi,
                        This one is great:
                        Patent number: 2437787
                        Filing date: Feb 17, 1945
                        Issue date: Mar 16, 1948
                        Best regards,
                        Fernando

                        On Sun, May 20, 2012 2:54 am, fanotec wrote:
                        > Dear Members,
                        >
                        > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                        > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider
                        > etc, please let me know.
                        > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying
                        > any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky
                        > draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
                        >
                        > Nick
                      • Scott Highton
                        Hi Nick, Here in the U.S., patent requirements specify that the invention be: 1) statuatory 2) new (novel) 3) useful 4) non-obvious For more info, see:
                        Message 11 of 21 , May 20, 2012
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                          Hi Nick,

                          Here in the U.S., patent requirements specify that the invention be:
                          1) statuatory
                          2) new (novel)
                          3) useful
                          4) non-obvious

                          For more info, see: http://www.uspto.gov/patents/resources/general_info_concerning_patents.jsp



                          The purpose of a patent is to give the inventor (or patent owner) an
                          exclusive opportunity to earn value from his/her invention for a
                          limited time (currently 20 years from initial filing). What is not
                          commonly discussed is the cost of enforcing or policing one's
                          patent(s). Basically, once you are awarded a patent, you have to be
                          on a constant search worldwide for others who might be using your
                          patented invention, and taking action to prevent any unlicensed use of
                          it. If you fail to do this adequately, the patent's effectiveness
                          will be lost, and it can be formally ruled that your patent is no
                          longer in effect. The cost of protecting and enforcing ones patent(s)
                          is often far greater than any income derived from the protection a
                          patent provides.

                          With simple mechanical things like a panorama head with basic elements
                          like two rotation axes, three mounting/alignment arms, and embedded
                          click stops, there's very little that would be considered new or non-
                          obvious. Yes, your mounting arms may be made of a different material,
                          have a different number or size of lightening holes in them, molded,
                          machined or finished to have a slightly different look, etc., but
                          these are not really worthy of a patent. Think of a basic tool like a
                          hammer or frying pan (these are considered prior art). You can make
                          all the modifications you want to the shape and functionality of
                          either, but nothing is really going to get you a patent on the basic
                          hammer or frying pan, that would allow you control over anyone else
                          manufacturing or selling their own hammers or frying pans. Perhaps a
                          new magical coating that made the frying pan more functional could be
                          patented, but not the concept of a frying pan itself.

                          I'm not sure what concept(s) in panoramic camera heads would be worthy
                          of patents today. They really are fairly simple mechanical devices,
                          and there are so many different examples (prior art) already out
                          there, that any patent claim might be easily contested (resulting in a
                          tremendous waste of time and money for your patent efforts). Besides,
                          every pan head design currently out there will still be available to
                          compete against your product, even if you did receive a patent, and
                          your patent would have no impact on those selling products based on
                          this prior art.

                          Finally, as others have written here, if the panoramic community felt
                          your patents were overly broad or over reaching, your efforts to
                          enforce said patents would likely generate tremendous animosity within
                          the very community that you need to be supporting your businesses and
                          products. The IPIX lesson is a very apt one in this regard.
                          Certainly, the VR community doesn't need to go through this again, and
                          unless you want to follow in IPIX's footsteps with millions of dollars
                          wasted, intense animosity from your client base, and ultimate failure
                          (bankruptcy) of your company, you might want to reconsider carefully
                          such an approach.

                          Mind you, patents, trademarks, copyrights, etc. are all important
                          tools for allowing creators to protect and monetize their original
                          work products. As with most tools, however, they need to be used
                          wisely.

                          Regards,



                          Scott

                          Scott Highton
                          Author, Virtual Reality Photography
                          Web: http://www.vrphotography.com
                        • Christian Bloch
                          I m 100% with Scott here. The patent system is made for lawyers, and they are the only winners. All the money and time you would spend on bureaucracy and
                          Message 12 of 21 , May 20, 2012
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                            I'm 100% with Scott here.

                            The patent system is made for lawyers, and they are the only winners. All the money and time you would spend on bureaucracy and paperwork would be much better invested in improving the actual product/documentation/handling/support. 

                            Since you're specifically asking for patent numbers of prior art - well, that's where you're already splitting hairs and leave out simple solutions that are ingenious but have not been patented. 

                            I love Fanotec products, I do think they are innovative, and have a very friendly image in the community right now. Don't throw that away by starting another arms race on paper. 

                            Blochi

                            On May 20, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Scott Highton wrote:

                            They really are fairly simple mechanical devices, 
                            and there are so many different examples (prior art) already out 
                            there, that any patent claim might be easily contested (resulting in a 
                            tremendous waste of time and money for your patent efforts).

                          • fanotec
                            Hi Fernando, Thx a lot. To get the discount, just tell me which reseller you would like to buy the product. I will talk with him/ her. you can PM me. Now you
                            Message 13 of 21 , May 21, 2012
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                              Hi Fernando,

                              Thx a lot. To get the discount, just tell me which reseller you would like to buy the product. I will talk with him/ her. you can PM me.
                              Now you have a chance to win the all new Nodal Ninja M2, which will have a price of >$700. If you are the only contributor, then it is yours. :-)

                              Nick

                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Fernando Chaves" <fc@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi,
                              > Please check patent number: 5259584.
                              > I hope this helps.
                              > Fernando
                              >
                              > On Sun, May 20, 2012 2:54 am, fanotec wrote:
                              > > Dear Members,
                              > >
                              > > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                              > > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider
                              > > etc, please let me know.
                              > > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying
                              > > any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky
                              > > draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
                              > >
                              > > Nick
                              > >
                              > > Nodal Ninja Developer
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • fanotec
                              some products claim patented. But I can t never find their patent number. So a patent number is needed. Nick
                              Message 14 of 21 , May 21, 2012
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                                some products claim patented. But I can't never find their patent number. So a patent number is needed.

                                Nick

                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Fernando Chaves" <fc@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi,
                                > I still have a "3sixty" panohead,from Peace River, which is supposed to be
                                > patented (I also have and love a NN5 which is the head I actually use).
                                > On the link below you can read about it
                                > http://www.vrmag.org/issue15/PEACE_RIVER_STUDIO_S_PIXORB_TRIPOD_HEAD.html
                                > Does it worth a $100 discount?
                                > Best regards,
                                > Fernando
                                >
                                >
                                > On Sun, May 20, 2012 2:54 am, fanotec wrote:
                                > > Dear Members,
                                > >
                                > > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                                > > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider
                                > > etc, please let me know.
                                > > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying
                                > > any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky
                                > > draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
                                > >
                                > > Nick
                                > >
                                > > Nodal Ninja Developer
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • fanotec
                                Hi Scott, Having a patent is more for marketing and protection against other patent claims. Fanotec have no resources to get involved in patent war. Nick
                                Message 15 of 21 , May 21, 2012
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                                  Hi Scott,

                                  Having a patent is more for marketing and protection against other patent claims. Fanotec have no resources to get involved in patent war.


                                  Nick

                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Highton <scott@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Nick,
                                  >
                                  > Here in the U.S., patent requirements specify that the invention be:
                                  > 1) statuatory
                                  > 2) new (novel)
                                  > 3) useful
                                  > 4) non-obvious
                                  >
                                  > For more info, see: http://www.uspto.gov/patents/resources/general_info_concerning_patents.jsp
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The purpose of a patent is to give the inventor (or patent owner) an
                                  > exclusive opportunity to earn value from his/her invention for a
                                  > limited time (currently 20 years from initial filing). What is not
                                  > commonly discussed is the cost of enforcing or policing one's
                                  > patent(s). Basically, once you are awarded a patent, you have to be
                                  > on a constant search worldwide for others who might be using your
                                  > patented invention, and taking action to prevent any unlicensed use of
                                  > it. If you fail to do this adequately, the patent's effectiveness
                                  > will be lost, and it can be formally ruled that your patent is no
                                  > longer in effect. The cost of protecting and enforcing ones patent(s)
                                  > is often far greater than any income derived from the protection a
                                  > patent provides.
                                  >
                                  > With simple mechanical things like a panorama head with basic elements
                                  > like two rotation axes, three mounting/alignment arms, and embedded
                                  > click stops, there's very little that would be considered new or non-
                                  > obvious. Yes, your mounting arms may be made of a different material,
                                  > have a different number or size of lightening holes in them, molded,
                                  > machined or finished to have a slightly different look, etc., but
                                  > these are not really worthy of a patent. Think of a basic tool like a
                                  > hammer or frying pan (these are considered prior art). You can make
                                  > all the modifications you want to the shape and functionality of
                                  > either, but nothing is really going to get you a patent on the basic
                                  > hammer or frying pan, that would allow you control over anyone else
                                  > manufacturing or selling their own hammers or frying pans. Perhaps a
                                  > new magical coating that made the frying pan more functional could be
                                  > patented, but not the concept of a frying pan itself.
                                  >
                                  > I'm not sure what concept(s) in panoramic camera heads would be worthy
                                  > of patents today. They really are fairly simple mechanical devices,
                                  > and there are so many different examples (prior art) already out
                                  > there, that any patent claim might be easily contested (resulting in a
                                  > tremendous waste of time and money for your patent efforts). Besides,
                                  > every pan head design currently out there will still be available to
                                  > compete against your product, even if you did receive a patent, and
                                  > your patent would have no impact on those selling products based on
                                  > this prior art.
                                  >
                                  > Finally, as others have written here, if the panoramic community felt
                                  > your patents were overly broad or over reaching, your efforts to
                                  > enforce said patents would likely generate tremendous animosity within
                                  > the very community that you need to be supporting your businesses and
                                  > products. The IPIX lesson is a very apt one in this regard.
                                  > Certainly, the VR community doesn't need to go through this again, and
                                  > unless you want to follow in IPIX's footsteps with millions of dollars
                                  > wasted, intense animosity from your client base, and ultimate failure
                                  > (bankruptcy) of your company, you might want to reconsider carefully
                                  > such an approach.
                                  >
                                  > Mind you, patents, trademarks, copyrights, etc. are all important
                                  > tools for allowing creators to protect and monetize their original
                                  > work products. As with most tools, however, they need to be used
                                  > wisely.
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Scott
                                  >
                                  > Scott Highton
                                  > Author, Virtual Reality Photography
                                  > Web: http://www.vrphotography.com
                                  >
                                • prague
                                  Hi Nick, Ok, I understand now. I misunderstood you before. Sorry, it was not my intention to offend you. I think it is a good deal :) Jeffrey
                                  Message 16 of 21 , May 21, 2012
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                                    Hi Nick,

                                    Ok, I understand now. I misunderstood you before. Sorry, it was not my intention to offend you. I think it is a good deal :)

                                    Jeffrey



                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "fanotec" <nickfanmn@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi Jeffrey,
                                    >
                                    > I am not looking for some one to draft a patent for me. I am just look for some prior art references. If any one have read any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, just let me know the patent number to get the discount and enter the lucky draw. I think it is fair enough.
                                    > what do you propose me to offer for such service?
                                    >
                                    > Nick
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <panoramas@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Luca, a hardware patent is IMO very different from a software patent.
                                    > >
                                    > > Nick, doesn't a patent cost something like $20k to make? $100 reward seems a bit... underwhelming to me.
                                    > >
                                    > > At any rate, I don't know of any patents (but I didn't look). I wish you luck, and look forward to seeing your new design! :)
                                    > >
                                    > > Jeffrey
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "fanotec" <nickfanmn@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Dear Members,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                                    > > > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
                                    > > > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Nick
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Nodal Ninja Developer
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • luca vascon
                                    Just to make it clear... I agree on some things: 1-Bill, with Fanotec is doing a great job, the heads are really good. I mean, there is always room for
                                    Message 17 of 21 , May 22, 2012
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                                      Just to make it clear...
                                      I agree on some things:
                                      1-Bill, with Fanotec is doing a great job, the heads are really good. I mean, there is always room for improvement, but as price-performance, the lower level ones are so good that is an obvious best-buy. I never seen the recent bigger ones in my hand, they look like good, well done, even if they gather a bit of bulk from the intelligent use of some off-shelf piece (Sunwayphoto?) I think till now they are not really innovating things, but passing things thru a good engeneering process, making things simpler and better. And it is not easy, nor a small thing! On the contrary!
                                      2- Protecting innovations with patent is, in origin, a way to protect the investment in research, AND to push the other to innovate. If you patent a coffee machine that works in a special way, making a good coffee, it is what patent is intended for.
                                      If you try to patent coffee itself, or the "water falling in to coffee powder" principle, and you enforce the patent with the use of lawyers in the american way, you are like iPix... If Nick has some great idea that is worth protecting, and he has the possibility he has better to do it!!

                                      2012/5/20 fanotec <nickfanmn@...>
                                      Dear Members,

                                      I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                                      if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
                                      as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.

                                      Nick

                                      Nodal Ninja Developer



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                                      --
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                                      www.officinepanottiche.com

                                    • french_don
                                      Here is the patent on the AutoMate head: 4,838,117.
                                      Message 18 of 21 , May 22, 2012
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                                        Here is the patent on the AutoMate head: 4,838,117.


                                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "fanotec" <nickfanmn@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Dear Members,
                                        >
                                        > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                                        > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
                                        > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
                                        >
                                        > Nick
                                        >
                                        > Nodal Ninja Developer
                                        >
                                      • krungthep56
                                        Dear Nick, Reference the subject of patents for panoheads, please see details below of a few existing patents: US2,958,501 Filed 25/02/1957 issued 09/08/60 to
                                        Message 19 of 21 , May 23, 2012
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                                          Dear Nick,

                                          Reference the subject of patents for panoheads, please see details below of a few existing patents:

                                          US2,958,501 Filed 25/02/1957 issued 09/08/60 to Paul Heling for 'Panorama Heads for Tripods and the like',

                                          US3,118,695 25/04/1960 issued 21/01/1964 to ENGELHARDT

                                          US4,451,020 05/08/1981 issued 29/05/1984 - Gefitec S.A. - Platform for a camera or cine camera stand

                                          US4,905,030 09/02/1989 issued 27/02/1990 - Manually operated handle for panoramic cameras

                                          US5,347,740 15/06/1992 issued 20/09/1994 - Multi-functional variable position rifle and camera mount

                                          US5,365,293 17/03/1993 issued 15/11/1994 - Velbon International Corporation - Panhead of improved operability

                                          US5,397,086 02/12/1992 issued 14/03/1995 - Camera tripod head

                                          US5,589,903 16/05/1995 issued 31/12/1996 to Manfrotto.

                                          There are also early references going back over 80 years which would need further research as they are not available online on the US Patent Office website as follows:

                                          1,898,469 Tonsor issued Feb. 21, 1933
                                          1,919,554 Howell issued July 25, 1933
                                          2,147,482 Butler issued Feb. 14, 1939
                                          2,204,013 Gaidos issued June 11, 1940
                                          2,760,744 Watrous issued Aug. 28, 1956
                                          2,772,902 Lind issued Dec. 4, 1956

                                          Does that entitle me to a discount?

                                          Regards,

                                          KT56.

                                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "french_don" <DCFrench@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Here is the patent on the AutoMate head: 4,838,117.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "fanotec" <nickfanmn@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Dear Members,
                                          > >
                                          > > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                                          > > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
                                          > > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
                                          > >
                                          > > Nick
                                          > >
                                          > > Nodal Ninja Developer
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • fanotec
                                          Hi KT56, I now probably get more references than I have time to read. Please check pm for product discounts. NIck
                                          Message 20 of 21 , May 25, 2012
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                                            Hi KT56,

                                            I now probably get more references than I have time to read.
                                            Please check pm for product discounts.

                                            NIck

                                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "krungthep56" <haydnbkk@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Dear Nick,
                                            >
                                            > Reference the subject of patents for panoheads, please see details below of a few existing patents:
                                            >
                                            > US2,958,501 Filed 25/02/1957 issued 09/08/60 to Paul Heling for 'Panorama Heads for Tripods and the like',
                                            >
                                            > US3,118,695 25/04/1960 issued 21/01/1964 to ENGELHARDT
                                            >
                                            > US4,451,020 05/08/1981 issued 29/05/1984 - Gefitec S.A. - Platform for a camera or cine camera stand
                                            >
                                            > US4,905,030 09/02/1989 issued 27/02/1990 - Manually operated handle for panoramic cameras
                                            >
                                            > US5,347,740 15/06/1992 issued 20/09/1994 - Multi-functional variable position rifle and camera mount
                                            >
                                            > US5,365,293 17/03/1993 issued 15/11/1994 - Velbon International Corporation - Panhead of improved operability
                                            >
                                            > US5,397,086 02/12/1992 issued 14/03/1995 - Camera tripod head
                                            >
                                            > US5,589,903 16/05/1995 issued 31/12/1996 to Manfrotto.
                                            >
                                            > There are also early references going back over 80 years which would need further research as they are not available online on the US Patent Office website as follows:
                                            >
                                            > 1,898,469 Tonsor issued Feb. 21, 1933
                                            > 1,919,554 Howell issued July 25, 1933
                                            > 2,147,482 Butler issued Feb. 14, 1939
                                            > 2,204,013 Gaidos issued June 11, 1940
                                            > 2,760,744 Watrous issued Aug. 28, 1956
                                            > 2,772,902 Lind issued Dec. 4, 1956
                                            >
                                            > Does that entitle me to a discount?
                                            >
                                            > Regards,
                                            >
                                            > KT56.
                                            >
                                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "french_don" <DCFrench@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Here is the patent on the AutoMate head: 4,838,117.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "fanotec" <nickfanmn@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Dear Members,
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                                            > > > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
                                            > > > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Nick
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Nodal Ninja Developer
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • french_don
                                            No discount for me, Nick?
                                            Message 21 of 21 , May 31, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              No discount for me, Nick?


                                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "fanotec" <nickfanmn@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hi KT56,
                                              >
                                              > I now probably get more references than I have time to read.
                                              > Please check pm for product discounts.
                                              >
                                              > NIck
                                              >
                                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "krungthep56" <haydnbkk@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Dear Nick,
                                              > >
                                              > > Reference the subject of patents for panoheads, please see details below of a few existing patents:
                                              > >
                                              > > US2,958,501 Filed 25/02/1957 issued 09/08/60 to Paul Heling for 'Panorama Heads for Tripods and the like',
                                              > >
                                              > > US3,118,695 25/04/1960 issued 21/01/1964 to ENGELHARDT
                                              > >
                                              > > US4,451,020 05/08/1981 issued 29/05/1984 - Gefitec S.A. - Platform for a camera or cine camera stand
                                              > >
                                              > > US4,905,030 09/02/1989 issued 27/02/1990 - Manually operated handle for panoramic cameras
                                              > >
                                              > > US5,347,740 15/06/1992 issued 20/09/1994 - Multi-functional variable position rifle and camera mount
                                              > >
                                              > > US5,365,293 17/03/1993 issued 15/11/1994 - Velbon International Corporation - Panhead of improved operability
                                              > >
                                              > > US5,397,086 02/12/1992 issued 14/03/1995 - Camera tripod head
                                              > >
                                              > > US5,589,903 16/05/1995 issued 31/12/1996 to Manfrotto.
                                              > >
                                              > > There are also early references going back over 80 years which would need further research as they are not available online on the US Patent Office website as follows:
                                              > >
                                              > > 1,898,469 Tonsor issued Feb. 21, 1933
                                              > > 1,919,554 Howell issued July 25, 1933
                                              > > 2,147,482 Butler issued Feb. 14, 1939
                                              > > 2,204,013 Gaidos issued June 11, 1940
                                              > > 2,760,744 Watrous issued Aug. 28, 1956
                                              > > 2,772,902 Lind issued Dec. 4, 1956
                                              > >
                                              > > Does that entitle me to a discount?
                                              > >
                                              > > Regards,
                                              > >
                                              > > KT56.
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "french_don" <DCFrench@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Here is the patent on the AutoMate head: 4,838,117.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "fanotec" <nickfanmn@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Dear Members,
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I have some great pano head design that may be patent worthy.
                                              > > > > if you have seen any patent related to pano head, tilt head, angle divider etc, please let me know.
                                              > > > > as a reward for relevant contribution, you get $100 discount for buying any Fanotec products. Further, one of the contributors will win (by lucky draw) an Nodal Ninja Ultimate M2 when released this year.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Nick
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Nodal Ninja Developer
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
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