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Re: adding computer generated content to panos

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  • erik_leeman
    ... Hi Christian, Rest assured I m fully aware of the difficulties of portraying human figures, not only in computer generated material. But even so, what
    Message 1 of 22 , May 19, 2012
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      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bloch wrote:
      >
      > Well, the nude in the alley you posted actually comes closer than
      > the others.
      >
      > The trouble with a human figure is, that there are so many
      > subtleties that we subconsciously recognize when they are missing…
      > As humans we're just trained to interpret the human figure. And
      > that's where the "uncanny valley" comes in: the point where a
      > human figure limbos between puppet and life-like. That's why humans
      > are actually the hardest thing to get perfect in CG. The same level
      > of realism spent on a car or killer robot or creepy monster, and
      > everybody would just buy it.
      >
      > Blochi


      Hi Christian,

      Rest assured I'm fully aware of the difficulties of portraying human figures, not only in computer generated material.
      But even so, what really took me by surprise when I was experimenting with this stuff was the image quality we can have today for peanuts. Last time I looked (a few years ago) affordable human-shaped 3D still looked utterly dreadful, and now, what an improvement!

      Not only the models and pose-ability have become much better, but especially the render quality as provided by tools like LuxRender!

      Sure, there's LOTS that can be improved in the examples I've shown.
      For instance, setting up convincing poses is quite a challenge for a beginner like me.

      Nevertheless I thought it was worth showing, who knows who might benefit from learning about these tools.

      Cheers!

      Erik Leeman

      <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/> <http://www.erikleeman.com/>
    • Christian Bloch
      ... Oh, absolutely - I think it s awesome we have a discussion about CG. ;) It really has become easier, and for some strange reasons panoramas and IBL are a
      Message 2 of 22 , May 19, 2012
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        Nevertheless I thought it was worth showing, who knows who might benefit from learning about these tools.

        Oh, absolutely - I think it's awesome we have a discussion about CG. ;)

        It really has become easier, and for some strange reasons panoramas and IBL are a big part of that. And, of course the availability of good models. www.Turbosquid.com is another source of quality stuff, that renders very easy. Even the higher-end 3D packages are not much harder to learn, as long as you feed them the right content. Heck even Photoshop Extended has a 3d model shop and has somewhat acceptable render quality.

        I believe the Reality2 plugin also supports direct import of sIBL sets (haven't tried it, but was told). That's how I share my panoramas, and there's also software to turn your own HDR pano into a ready-lit stage. Super-easy: www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/archive.html

        Blochi
      • enridp
        It looks fine, but I think you need more practice in 3D, those plants looks very unreal.
        Message 3 of 22 , May 19, 2012
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          It looks fine, but I think you need more practice in 3D, those plants looks very unreal.

          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "erik_leeman" <erik.leeman@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, luca vascon wrote:
          > >
          > > Bryce and poser used to be metacreations... like CANOMA!!
          > >
          >
          > Hi all, hi Luca,
          >
          > Here's the result one of the first ones I did,
          > but before you try it please note these four remarks:
          >
          > 1. this one is NOT safe for work in many places.
          > 2. it is quite large at 8.3 MB
          > 3. it is FLASH only,
          > 4. cube faces are 2880x2880, and intended to be viewed full screen!
          >
          > I think it will give a nice impression of the quality of DAZ 3D geometry and Lux's render output. The blending into the photograph may not be perfect, but hey, it was one of my first attempts at this.
          >
          > Again, if you object to seeing pixels with skin-like RGB values in specific arrangements, do not follow this link!
          >
          > http://tinyurl.com/Regomir-DAZ-2880x2880
          >
          > Cheers!
          >
          > Erik Leeman
          >
          > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/> <http://www.erikleeman.com/>
          >
        • Bjørn K Nilssen
          ... sIBL is highly recommended :) As well as Blochis HDR book! For some reason that nude pano refused to load in Opera, so I had to fire up Chrome. The others
          Message 4 of 22 , May 21, 2012
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            På Sat, 19 May 2012 11:26:17 +0200, skrev Christian Bloch <Blochi@...>:

            >
            >> Nevertheless I thought it was worth showing, who knows who might benefit from learning about these tools.
            >
            > Oh, absolutely - I think it's awesome we have a discussion about CG. ;)
            >
            > It really has become easier, and for some strange reasons panoramas and IBL are a big part of that. And, of course the availability of good models. www.Turbosquid.com is another source of quality stuff, that renders very easy. Even the higher-end 3D packages are not much harder to learn, as long as you feed them the right content. Heck even Photoshop Extended has a 3d model shop and has somewhat acceptable render quality.
            >
            > I believe the Reality2 plugin also supports direct import of sIBL sets (haven't tried it, but was told). That's how I share my panoramas, and there's also software to turn your own HDR pano into a ready-lit stage. Super-easy: www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/archive.html

            sIBL is highly recommended :)
            As well as Blochis HDR book!

            For some reason that nude pano refused to load in Opera, so I had to fire up Chrome. The others loaded fine in Opera.
            I think it looked pretty good, but the skin lacked some reflections from that yellow light?

            It is a two-edged sword that it is now easier than ever to make great-looking 3D (and pano/CGI) images though.
            A lot of the market has vanished, because now architects etc have got that magic 'make a nice picture'-button.
            And they can buy/find whatever they want of furniture, plants, people, cars and HDRs for IBL etc.

            BTW, here's a wwp contribution from 2009: http://worldwidepanorama.org/worldwidepanorama/wwp1209/html/BjornKareNilssen-6022.html
            Testing out some fur etc..
            And another, old one, from 2006, showing the view from an unbuilt house's first floor: http://bknilssen.no/pano/pFagertun02Bs.mov

            --
            Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
          • erik_leeman
            ... http://worldwidepanorama.org/worldwidepanorama/wwp1209/html/BjornKareNilssen-6022.html ... Hi Bjørn, Thanks for having a look : ) I agree, that yellow
            Message 5 of 22 , May 21, 2012
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              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:

              > sIBL is highly recommended :)
              > As well as Blochis HDR book!
              >
              > For some reason that nude pano refused to load in Opera, so I had
              > to fire up Chrome. The others loaded fine in Opera.
              > I think it looked pretty good, but the skin lacked some reflections
              > from that yellow light?
              >
              > It is a two-edged sword that it is now easier than ever to make
              > great-looking 3D (and pano/CGI) images though.
              > A lot of the market has vanished, because now architects etc have
              > got that magic 'make a nice picture'-button.
              > And they can buy/find whatever they want of furniture, plants,
              > people, cars and HDRs for IBL etc.
              >
              > BTW, here's a wwp contribution from 2009:
              http://worldwidepanorama.org/worldwidepanorama/wwp1209/html/BjornKareNilssen-6022.html
              > Testing out some fur etc..
              > And another, old one, from 2006, showing the view from an unbuilt
              > house's first floor: http://bknilssen.no/pano/pFagertun02Bs.mov
              >
              > --
              > Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
              >

              Hi Bjørn,

              Thanks for having a look : )

              I agree, that yellow light ought to have more effect, and it probably will if I rebuild the original bracketed images into a real HDR version.
              So far I haven't used true HDR data, I merely converted some of my old 16-bit TIFF's to 32-bit .exr and used those as IBL-sources for the renders. Surely that must (or should) show in the end result.

              I think we should grab that CGI-sword back from those architects, and (learn to) use it better than they can. Only then can we make them need us, instead of steadily loosing more and more ground as image-creators. Adding value to our work for (potential) clients can only be a good thing.

              Here's another one I'm working on, still have to find a way to get rain on the CG-model's skin and hair.
              Also a LARGE file with 2880 cube faces, and also not safe for most workplaces (be careful!)

              http://tinyurl.com/Fontaine-DAZ-2880x2880


              Cheers!

              Erik Leeman

              <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/> <http://www.erikleeman.com/>
            • Bjørn K Nilssen
              ... I don t use Luxrender, but afaik it is capable of outputting HDR equirects? Then a very quick and dirty (but often very useful and convincing) way to make
              Message 6 of 22 , May 21, 2012
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                På Mon, 21 May 2012 15:19:25 +0200, skrev erik_leeman <erik.leeman@...>:

                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
                >
                >> sIBL is highly recommended :)
                >> As well as Blochis HDR book!
                >>
                >> For some reason that nude pano refused to load in Opera, so I had
                >> to fire up Chrome. The others loaded fine in Opera.
                >> I think it looked pretty good, but the skin lacked some reflections
                >> from that yellow light?
                >>
                >> It is a two-edged sword that it is now easier than ever to make
                >> great-looking 3D (and pano/CGI) images though.
                >> A lot of the market has vanished, because now architects etc have
                >> got that magic 'make a nice picture'-button.
                >> And they can buy/find whatever they want of furniture, plants,
                >> people, cars and HDRs for IBL etc.
                >>
                >> BTW, here's a wwp contribution from 2009:
                > http://worldwidepanorama.org/worldwidepanorama/wwp1209/html/BjornKareNilssen-6022.html
                >> Testing out some fur etc..
                >> And another, old one, from 2006, showing the view from an unbuilt
                >> house's first floor: http://bknilssen.no/pano/pFagertun02Bs.mov
                >>
                >> --
                >> Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
                >>
                >
                > Hi Bjørn,
                >
                > Thanks for having a look : )
                >
                > I agree, that yellow light ought to have more effect, and it probably will if I rebuild the original bracketed images into a real HDR version.
                > So far I haven't used true HDR data, I merely converted some of my old 16-bit TIFF's to 32-bit .exr and used those as IBL-sources for the renders.Surely that must (or should) show in the end result.

                I don't use Luxrender, but afaik it is capable of outputting HDR equirects?
                Then a very quick and dirty (but often very useful and convincing) way to make HDR or lighting is to make a simple box/boxes in 3D, add colors/textures, and some strong light-emitters. Like in that first nude pano a strong emitter above the inner walls, and a yellow/orange one where that yellow light is. Apply some smoothing/blur in PS and it would probably work fine as a HDR for IBL in Lux?
                A linear workflow makes it a lot easier to get good IBL results IMHO.

                > I think we should grab that CGI-sword back from those architects, and (learn to) use it better than they can. Only then can we make them need us, instead of steadily loosing more and more ground as image-creators. Adding value to our work for (potential) clients can only be a good thing.

                They still need us for high-end visualizations, but the bulk of 3D work used to be more mid/low-end. Many authoritities now demand 3D images of proposed of buildings shown in the actual surroundings. Such composite 3D/photo work is more than most architects can handle, but usually they get away by just adding very simple scale models of surrounding buildings..

                > Here's another one I'm working on, still have to find a way to get rain on the CG-model's skin and hair.
                > Also a LARGE file with 2880 cube faces, and also not safe for most workplaces (be careful!)

                That one loaded fine in Opera too. Strange! As a freelancer there are no bosses behind my shoulder ;)
                I think that first nude was more convincingly lit.
                Getting the skin/hair to be partly covered by rain drops would be very tricky to get right.
                Do those models have good unstretched UV maps? If they do it might be worth a try to make some reflection/specular maps?

                How about a tree hut up in one of those nice trees? ;)

                > http://tinyurl.com/Fontaine-DAZ-2880x2880
                >


                --
                Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
              • markgambier
                In a way, I ve been taking the reverse approach . . . I take Stereographic 3D photos of actors and place them in CG settings for a graphic novel App I just
                Message 7 of 22 , May 22, 2012
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                  In a way, I've been taking the reverse approach . . . I take Stereographic 3D photos of actors and place them in CG settings for a graphic novel App I just submitted to Apple for approval. I run the left and right images of the CG background and the actor through a variety of processes in photoshop to give them a similar look and feel, which makes compositing easier and adds to the look and feel of the work.

                  I had originally wanted to incorporate a 360 pano for a particular portion of the App, but have had a devil of a time rendering a smooth anaglyph pano. Anyone have any experience in that area?

                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "erik_leeman" <erik.leeman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi all,
                  >
                  > Lately I've been doing some experiments to see if I could 'populate' panoramas with computer-generated 3D content.
                  > Here are some results I'd like to share with you (FLASH only!):
                  >
                  > http://tinyurl.com/Pacinek-3-DAZ
                  >
                  > http://tinyurl.com/Riols-DAZ
                  >
                  > (the second one isn't completely finished yet, the reflection still needs to be warped to follow the water surface)
                  >
                  > Looks like with some practice useful things could be achieved this way!
                  > And fun things too of course : )
                  >
                  > Cheers!
                  >
                  > Erik Leeman
                  >
                  > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/> <http://www.erikleeman.com/>
                  >
                • erik_leeman
                  ... Hi Bjørn, I gave her a specular map with droplets, and changed the shader settings accordingly. Although not perfect I thinks it s major improvement!
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 22, 2012
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                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
                    > ...snip...
                    >
                    > Getting the skin/hair to be partly covered by rain drops would be
                    > very tricky to get right.
                    > Do those models have good unstretched UV maps? If they do it might be
                    > worth a try to make some reflection/specular maps?
                    >
                    > How about a tree hut up in one of those nice trees? ;)
                    >
                    > > http://tinyurl.com/Fontaine-DAZ-2880x2880
                    >
                    > --
                    > Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas

                    Hi Bjørn,

                    I gave her a specular map with droplets, and changed the shader settings accordingly. Although not perfect I thinks it's major improvement!

                    Cheers!

                    Erik Leeman

                    <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/> <http://www.erikleeman.com>
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