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Canon 10-22 in panorama use.

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  • Luca Vascon
    I tried it extensively, trying it in various workflows. 6 images drum+2+2. Similar to Helmut Dersh s workflow, for a 15mm Voightlander on a Leica 3f. 6+6
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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      I tried it extensively, trying it in various workflows.
      6 images drum+2+2. Similar to Helmut Dersh's workflow, for a 15mm
      Voightlander on a Leica 3f.
      6+6 images
      6+6+1
      8+8+1

      With a lot of plus and minus I'll summarize now, and maybe publish later
      All seems to indicate me that at 10mm you loose a lot of "efficiency", or
      have very difficult automatic CP finding.

      Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
      "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
      I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
      Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????
      It seems to!!
      At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!
      :-D


      --

      -----------------------------------------
      Università Iuav di Venezia
      -----------------------------------------

      Dr. Luca Vascon
      tel . (+39) 041.2571262, e-mail Vascon@...

      Laboratorio multimedia Facoltà di Design e Arti, DADI
      Magazzino 7 ex Ligabue, Dorsoduro 1827 30123 Venezia
    • Hans Nyberg
      ... NO Hans
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Luca Vascon" <crimsonkingit@...> wrote:

        > Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
        > "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
        > I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
        > Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????
        > It seems to!!
        > At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!

        NO

        Hans
      • Sacha Griffin
        That s what I found. There was no effective difference in np at 10 than at 22. Very interesting. I didn t find too many issues with cp finding.. However,
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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          That's what I found. There was no effective difference in np at 10 than at
          22. Very interesting.
          I didn't find too many issues with cp finding.. However, optimizing threw me
          back to the old days of actually needing to know what the hell I was doing.

          Because, you can not present such quality effectively on the web without
          downsampling, I see no reason to use the 10-22 for sphericals.
          It does make killer prints though. :)

          Sacha Griffin
          Southern Digital Solutions LLC
          www.southern-digital.com
          www.seeit360.net
          www.ezphotosafe.com
          404-551-4275
          404-731-7798

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Luca Vascon [mailto:crimsonkingit@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:15 PM
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Canon 10-22 in panorama use.

          I tried it extensively, trying it in various workflows.
          6 images drum+2+2. Similar to Helmut Dersh's workflow, for a 15mm
          Voightlander on a Leica 3f.
          6+6 images
          6+6+1
          8+8+1

          With a lot of plus and minus I'll summarize now, and maybe publish later
          All seems to indicate me that at 10mm you loose a lot of "efficiency", or
          have very difficult automatic CP finding.

          Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
          "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
          I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
          Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????
          It seems to!!
          At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!
          :-D


          --

          -----------------------------------------
          Università Iuav di Venezia
          -----------------------------------------

          Dr. Luca Vascon
          tel . (+39) 041.2571262, e-mail Vascon@...

          Laboratorio multimedia Facoltà di Design e Arti, DADI
          Magazzino 7 ex Ligabue, Dorsoduro 1827 30123 Venezia



          --

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • 3rw1n
          Hi, I don t use this lens but the 10-20 sigma one, although it may still interest you I used to set it at 10mm 6 (+45°) 6 (-45°) +1 results were correct
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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            Hi,

            I don't use this lens but the 10-20 sigma one, although it may still
            interest you

            I used to set it at 10mm 6 (+45°) 6 (-45°) +1 results were correct
            but perfectible you miss some overlapping according to me
            so then I tried at 10 6(+45) 6 (0) 65-45°) +1 stitching was better
            but still perfectible, not sharp enough
            now I use it at 12 mm 8(+30) 8(-30) +1 +1 I now have great results

            The NPP does move when you change focal length at least on the sigma
            lens.


            ---Message d'origine-----
            De : PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] De
            la part de Luca Vascon
            Envoyé : mardi 19 décembre 2006 18:15
            À : PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            Objet : [PanoToolsNG] Canon 10-22 in panorama use.



            I tried it extensively, trying it in various workflows.
            6 images drum+2+2. Similar to Helmut Dersh's workflow, for a 15mm
            Voightlander on a Leica 3f.
            6+6 images
            6+6+1
            8+8+1

            With a lot of plus and minus I'll summarize now, and maybe publish later
            All seems to indicate me that at 10mm you loose a lot of "efficiency",
            or
            have very difficult automatic CP finding.

            Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
            "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
            I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
            Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????
            It seems to!!
            At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!
            :-D

            --

            -----------------------------------------
            Università Iuav di Venezia
            -----------------------------------------

            Dr. Luca Vascon
            tel . (+39) 041.2571262, e-mail Vascon@iuav. <mailto:Vascon%40iuav.it>
            it

            Laboratorio multimedia Facoltà di Design e Arti, DADI
            Magazzino 7 ex Ligabue, Dorsoduro 1827 30123 Venezia







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mark D. Fink
            ... Remember about five or so years ago when we were limited to 1000x500 pixels? Now putting up 6000x3000 isn t that big a deal. Imagine five years from now.
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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              > Because, you can not present such quality effectively on the web without
              > downsampling, I see no reason to use the 10-22 for sphericals.
              > It does make killer prints though. :)

              Remember about five or so years ago when we were limited to 1000x500 pixels?
              Now putting up 6000x3000 isn't that big a deal. Imagine five years from now.
              Are you going to be kicking yourself that you didn't capture at the highest
              resolution possible? I'm not saying you need to shoot everything with an
              80mm lens - it's just not practical for some subject matter, but certainly
              lenses in the 14mm to 24mm range make sense now and for the future, IF the
              subject matter warrants it. (IMHO)

              Mark
              www.pinnacle-vr.com
              www.northernlight.net
            • Sacha Griffin
              Do you disagree with the location of the np? I also show the np to be at the front edge of the zoom ring.. front edge being closest to the camera. At the
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                Do you disagree with the location of the np? I also show the np to be at the
                front edge of the zoom ring.. front edge being closest to the camera.
                At the closest zoom to near subjects (4-5 inches) I did not see a parallax
                change when zoomed to 22mm from 10mm.

                Sacha Griffin
                Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                www.southern-digital.com
                www.seeit360.net
                www.ezphotosafe.com
                404-551-4275
                404-731-7798


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Hans Nyberg [mailto:hans@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:02 PM
                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Luca Vascon" <crimsonkingit@...> wrote:

                > Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
                > "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
                > I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
                > Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????
                > It seems to!!
                > At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!

                NO

                Hans



                --

                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Pat Swovelin
                ... It should NOT be the same because the internal optics of all zoom lenses change as you move through the available focal lengths of the lens. Consequently
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                  Luca Vascon wrote:
                  > I tried it extensively, trying it in various workflows.
                  > 6 images drum+2+2. Similar to Helmut Dersh's workflow, for a 15mm
                  > Voightlander on a Leica 3f.
                  > 6+6 images
                  > 6+6+1
                  > 8+8+1
                  >
                  > With a lot of plus and minus I'll summarize now, and maybe publish later
                  > All seems to indicate me that at 10mm you loose a lot of "efficiency", or
                  > have very difficult automatic CP finding.
                  >
                  > Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
                  > "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
                  > I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
                  > Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????

                  It should NOT be the same because the internal optics of all zoom lenses
                  change as you move through the available focal lengths of the lens.
                  Consequently the NPP should change as well moving either forward or
                  backward along the length of the lens (depending upon which direction
                  you're zooming, i.e., in or out).

                  > It seems to!!
                  > At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!
                  > :-D




                  Pat Swovelin
                  Cool Guy @ Large
                • Sacha Griffin
                  You re right. It normally does. But the 10-22 is not a normal lens. When zooming, the rear element(s) moves in and out, where as every other lens I own or have
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                    You're right. It normally does. But the 10-22 is not a normal lens.
                    When zooming, the rear element(s) moves in and out, where as every other
                    lens I own or have seen, has internal elements that move in and out.

                    I posted a similar thread around 9 months ago about the np of the 10-22.
                    It very well MAY be different. But not something overly measurable since the
                    lens is not a macro lens. Meaning, if the NP at 10 and 22 are different, you
                    can not measure accurately enough to care about parallax of objects that
                    would be affected because the really wouldn't be in focus.

                    Sacha Griffin
                    Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                    www.southern-digital.com
                    www.seeit360.net
                    www.ezphotosafe.com
                    404-551-4275
                    404-731-7798

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Pat Swovelin [mailto:Panoramas@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 3:30 PM
                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Canon 10-22 in panorama use.

                    Luca Vascon wrote:
                    > I tried it extensively, trying it in various workflows.
                    > 6 images drum+2+2. Similar to Helmut Dersh's workflow, for a 15mm
                    > Voightlander on a Leica 3f.
                    > 6+6 images
                    > 6+6+1
                    > 8+8+1
                    >
                    > With a lot of plus and minus I'll summarize now, and maybe publish later
                    > All seems to indicate me that at 10mm you loose a lot of "efficiency", or
                    > have very difficult automatic CP finding.
                    >
                    > Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
                    > "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
                    > I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
                    > Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????

                    It should NOT be the same because the internal optics of all zoom lenses
                    change as you move through the available focal lengths of the lens.
                    Consequently the NPP should change as well moving either forward or
                    backward along the length of the lens (depending upon which direction
                    you're zooming, i.e., in or out).

                    > It seems to!!
                    > At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!
                    > :-D




                    Pat Swovelin
                    Cool Guy @ Large


                    --

                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Hans Nyberg
                    ... If the Canon 10-22 Zoom stays at the same point it must be a very special construction My 10-20 Sigma moves at least 7mm from 10 to 20. Also my 12-24 and
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Do you disagree with the location of the np? I also show the np to be at the
                      > front edge of the zoom ring.. front edge being closest to the camera.
                      > At the closest zoom to near subjects (4-5 inches) I did not see a parallax
                      > change when zoomed to 22mm from 10mm.

                      If the Canon 10-22 Zoom stays at the same point it must be a very special construction
                      My 10-20 Sigma moves at least 7mm from 10 to 20.

                      Also my 12-24 and 15-30 moves.

                      Hans
                    • John Houghton
                      ... If the front elements are fixed and the aperture is also in a fixed position, then the entrance pupil will remain stationary through the zoom because it is
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > You're right. It normally does. But the 10-22 is not a normal lens.
                        > When zooming, the rear element(s) moves in and out,

                        If the front elements are fixed and the aperture is also in a fixed
                        position, then the entrance pupil will remain stationary through the
                        zoom because it is the virtual image of the aperture formed by the lens
                        elements in front of it. It should be obvious if these are fixed
                        simply by looking into the front of the lens as you change the zooom.

                        John
                      • Sacha Griffin
                        Thank you John for helping us not to be exposed at crazy. -well at least as far as the 10-22 goes. ;) Sacha Griffin Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                          Thank you John for helping us not to be exposed at crazy.

                          -well at least as far as the 10-22 goes. ;)

                          Sacha Griffin
                          Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                          www.southern-digital.com
                          www.seeit360.net
                          www.ezphotosafe.com
                          404-551-4275
                          404-731-7798


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: John Houghton [mailto:j.houghton@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:26 PM
                          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.

                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > You're right. It normally does. But the 10-22 is not a normal lens.
                          > When zooming, the rear element(s) moves in and out,

                          If the front elements are fixed and the aperture is also in a fixed
                          position, then the entrance pupil will remain stationary through the
                          zoom because it is the virtual image of the aperture formed by the lens
                          elements in front of it. It should be obvious if these are fixed
                          simply by looking into the front of the lens as you change the zooom.

                          John



                          --

                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • Sacha Griffin
                          Actually, all the elements are moving. The front element will even move forward and back non-linearly depending on the zoom. So despite any measurements
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                            Actually, all the elements are moving. The front element will even move
                            forward and back non-linearly depending on the zoom.

                            So despite any measurements stating that 10mm and 22mm share the same NP, I
                            wouldn't make a bet that 15 does.

                            Sacha Griffin
                            Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                            www.southern-digital.com
                            www.seeit360.net
                            www.ezphotosafe.com
                            404-551-4275
                            404-731-7798

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Sacha Griffin [mailto:sachagriffin@...]
                            Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:42 PM
                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.

                            Thank you John for helping us not to be exposed at crazy.

                            -well at least as far as the 10-22 goes. ;)

                            Sacha Griffin
                            Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                            www.southern-digital.com
                            www.seeit360.net
                            www.ezphotosafe.com
                            404-551-4275
                            404-731-7798


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: John Houghton [mailto:j.houghton@...]
                            Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:26 PM
                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.

                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > You're right. It normally does. But the 10-22 is not a normal lens.
                            > When zooming, the rear element(s) moves in and out,

                            If the front elements are fixed and the aperture is also in a fixed
                            position, then the entrance pupil will remain stationary through the
                            zoom because it is the virtual image of the aperture formed by the lens
                            elements in front of it. It should be obvious if these are fixed
                            simply by looking into the front of the lens as you change the zooom.

                            John



                            --

                            Yahoo! Groups Links







                            --

                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • Luca Vascon
                            That s why... ... From: John Houghton To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 10:25 PM Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                              That's why...
                              :-)

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: John Houghton
                              To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 10:25 PM
                              Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.


                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > You're right. It normally does. But the 10-22 is not a normal lens.
                              > When zooming, the rear element(s) moves in and out,

                              If the front elements are fixed and the aperture is also in a fixed
                              position, then the entrance pupil will remain stationary through the
                              zoom because it is the virtual image of the aperture formed by the lens
                              elements in front of it. It should be obvious if these are fixed
                              simply by looking into the front of the lens as you change the zooom.

                              John





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Luca Vascon
                              ?! My NPP is towards the front lens!!!! ... It needs a check... ;-) ... From: Sacha Griffin To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                                ?!
                                My NPP is towards the front lens!!!!
                                :-O
                                It needs a check...
                                ;-)

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Sacha Griffin
                                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:42 PM
                                Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.


                                Do you disagree with the location of the np? I also show the np to be at the
                                front edge of the zoom ring.. front edge being closest to the camera.
                                At the closest zoom to near subjects (4-5 inches) I did not see a parallax
                                change when zoomed to 22mm from 10mm.

                                Sacha Griffin
                                Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                                www.southern-digital.com
                                www.seeit360.net
                                www.ezphotosafe.com
                                404-551-4275
                                404-731-7798

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Hans Nyberg [mailto:hans@...]
                                Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:02 PM
                                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.

                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Luca Vascon" <crimsonkingit@...> wrote:

                                > Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
                                > "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
                                > I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
                                > Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????
                                > It seems to!!
                                > At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!

                                NO

                                Hans

                                --

                                Yahoo! Groups Links





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Luca Vascon
                                ;-P Agree... My 60mm Leitz macro-Elmarit agrees too... ... From: Mark D. Fink To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:34 PM Subject:
                                Message 15 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                                  ;-P
                                  Agree...
                                  My 60mm Leitz macro-Elmarit agrees too...
                                  :-D

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Mark D. Fink
                                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:34 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Canon 10-22 in panorama use.


                                  > Because, you can not present such quality effectively on the web without
                                  > downsampling, I see no reason to use the 10-22 for sphericals.
                                  > It does make killer prints though. :)

                                  Remember about five or so years ago when we were limited to 1000x500 pixels?
                                  Now putting up 6000x3000 isn't that big a deal. Imagine five years from now.
                                  Are you going to be kicking yourself that you didn't capture at the highest
                                  resolution possible? I'm not saying you need to shoot everything with an
                                  80mm lens - it's just not practical for some subject matter, but certainly
                                  lenses in the 14mm to 24mm range make sense now and for the future, IF the
                                  subject matter warrants it. (IMHO)

                                  Mark
                                  www.pinnacle-vr.com
                                  www.northernlight.net





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Luca Vascon
                                  YES! ... From: Hans Nyberg To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:01 PM Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use. ...
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    YES!

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Hans Nyberg
                                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:01 PM
                                    Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.


                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Luca Vascon" <crimsonkingit@...> wrote:

                                    > Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
                                    > "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
                                    > I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
                                    > Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????
                                    > It seems to!!
                                    > At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!

                                    NO

                                    Hans





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Pat Swovelin
                                    ... I ve never seen a lens like that and I ve used a lot of lenses (including the Panavision 11:1 zoom that weighs more that one of the anchors on the Queen
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                                      Sacha Griffin wrote:
                                      > You're right. It normally does. But the 10-22 is not a normal lens.
                                      > When zooming, the rear element(s) moves in and out, where as every other
                                      > lens I own or have seen, has internal elements that move in and out.

                                      I've never seen a lens like that and I've used a lot of lenses
                                      (including the Panavision 11:1 zoom that weighs more that one of the
                                      anchors on the Queen Mary). Is it a totally new lens design or just an
                                      lens engineer's experiment gone awry? =8^)

                                      > I posted a similar thread around 9 months ago about the np of the 10-22.
                                      > It very well MAY be different. But not something overly measurable
                                      > since the
                                      > lens is not a macro lens. Meaning, if the NP at 10 and 22 are
                                      > different, you
                                      > can not measure accurately enough to care about parallax of objects that
                                      > would be affected because the really wouldn't be in focus.

                                      Plus when using a lens like that the subjects will be far enough away
                                      that they'll tend to be in focus (or at least within the circle of
                                      confusion) because of the depth of field when shooting stopped down.

                                      Maybe... =8^)

                                      > Sacha Griffin
                                      > Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                                      > www.southern-digital.com
                                      > www.seeit360.net
                                      > www.ezphotosafe.com
                                      > 404-551-4275
                                      > 404-731-7798
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Pat Swovelin [mailto:Panoramas@...]
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 3:30 PM
                                      > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Canon 10-22 in panorama use.
                                      >
                                      > Luca Vascon wrote:
                                      >> I tried it extensively, trying it in various workflows.
                                      >> 6 images drum+2+2. Similar to Helmut Dersh's workflow, for a 15mm
                                      >> Voightlander on a Leica 3f.
                                      >> 6+6 images
                                      >> 6+6+1
                                      >> 8+8+1
                                      >>
                                      >> With a lot of plus and minus I'll summarize now, and maybe publish later
                                      >> All seems to indicate me that at 10mm you loose a lot of "efficiency", or
                                      >> have very difficult automatic CP finding.
                                      >>
                                      >> Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
                                      >> "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
                                      >> I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
                                      >> Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????
                                      >
                                      > It should NOT be the same because the internal optics of all zoom lenses
                                      > change as you move through the available focal lengths of the lens.
                                      > Consequently the NPP should change as well moving either forward or
                                      > backward along the length of the lens (depending upon which direction
                                      > you're zooming, i.e., in or out).
                                      >
                                      >> It seems to!!
                                      >> At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!
                                      >> :-D




                                      Pat Swovelin
                                      Cool Guy @ Large
                                    • Pat Swovelin
                                      ... Too late! =8^) ... Pat Swovelin Cool Guy @ Large
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                                        Sacha Griffin wrote:
                                        > Thank you John for helping us not to be exposed at crazy.

                                        Too late! =8^)

                                        > -well at least as far as the 10-22 goes. ;)
                                        >
                                        > Sacha Griffin
                                        > Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                                        > www.southern-digital.com
                                        > www.seeit360.net
                                        > www.ezphotosafe.com
                                        > 404-551-4275
                                        > 404-731-7798
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: John Houghton [mailto:j.houghton@...]
                                        > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:26 PM
                                        > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.
                                        >
                                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        >> You're right. It normally does. But the 10-22 is not a normal lens.
                                        >> When zooming, the rear element(s) moves in and out,
                                        >
                                        > If the front elements are fixed and the aperture is also in a fixed
                                        > position, then the entrance pupil will remain stationary through the
                                        > zoom because it is the virtual image of the aperture formed by the lens
                                        > elements in front of it. It should be obvious if these are fixed
                                        > simply by looking into the front of the lens as you change the zooom.
                                        >
                                        > John




                                        Pat Swovelin
                                        Cool Guy @ Large
                                      • Pat Swovelin
                                        ... Do you think dropping it down those stairs made any difference? =8^) ... Pat Swovelin Cool Guy @ Large
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Dec 19, 2006
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                                          Luca Vascon wrote:
                                          > ?!
                                          > My NPP is towards the front lens!!!!
                                          > :-O
                                          > It needs a check...

                                          Do you think dropping it down those stairs made any difference? =8^)

                                          > ;-)
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: Sacha Griffin
                                          > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:42 PM
                                          > Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Do you disagree with the location of the np? I also show the np to be
                                          > at the
                                          > front edge of the zoom ring.. front edge being closest to the camera.
                                          > At the closest zoom to near subjects (4-5 inches) I did not see a parallax
                                          > change when zoomed to 22mm from 10mm.
                                          >
                                          > Sacha Griffin
                                          > Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                                          > www.southern-digital.com
                                          > www.seeit360.net
                                          > www.ezphotosafe.com
                                          > 404-551-4275
                                          > 404-731-7798
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: Hans Nyberg [mailto:hans@...]
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:02 PM
                                          > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.
                                          >
                                          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Luca Vascon" <crimsonkingit@...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
                                          > > "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
                                          > > I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
                                          > > Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????
                                          > > It seems to!!
                                          > > At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!
                                          >
                                          > NO
                                          >
                                          > Hans




                                          Pat Swovelin
                                          Cool Guy @ Large
                                        • Luca Vascon
                                          Dropped! ... Now, the zoom is made of floating elements. Front and rear elements are moving the opposite way. the npp floats of max 0.8mm. Laser measure. ...
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Dec 20, 2006
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                                            Dropped!
                                            :-DDDD

                                            Now, the zoom is made of floating elements. Front and rear elements are moving the opposite way.
                                            the npp floats of max 0.8mm. Laser measure.


                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Pat Swovelin
                                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 7:22 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.


                                            Luca Vascon wrote:
                                            > ?!
                                            > My NPP is towards the front lens!!!!
                                            > :-O
                                            > It needs a check...

                                            Do you think dropping it down those stairs made any difference? =8^)

                                            > ;-)
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Sacha Griffin
                                            > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:42 PM
                                            > Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Do you disagree with the location of the np? I also show the np to be
                                            > at the
                                            > front edge of the zoom ring.. front edge being closest to the camera.
                                            > At the closest zoom to near subjects (4-5 inches) I did not see a parallax
                                            > change when zoomed to 22mm from 10mm.
                                            >
                                            > Sacha Griffin
                                            > Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                                            > www.southern-digital.com
                                            > www.seeit360.net
                                            > www.ezphotosafe.com
                                            > 404-551-4275
                                            > 404-731-7798
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: Hans Nyberg [mailto:hans@...]
                                            > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:02 PM
                                            > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Canon 10-22 in panorama use.
                                            >
                                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Luca Vascon" <crimsonkingit@...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > Than I tried it varying focal lenght, to 12, 14, 17 and 22, to find the
                                            > > "sweet spot of the lens" and its place in panoramic world.
                                            > > I'm still doing my homework, but I ask you all a question.
                                            > > Is the NPP ALWAYS THE SAME?????
                                            > > It seems to!!
                                            > > At the front edge of the zooming rubber ring!
                                            >
                                            > NO
                                            >
                                            > Hans

                                            Pat Swovelin
                                            Cool Guy @ Large




                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • mcraw3957
                                            I quick and dirty test with a not super accurate pano head, 10-22 canon lens and 400d camera. The Nodal point I used is at the edge of the rubber zoom ring
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Dec 22, 2006
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                                              I quick and dirty test with a not super accurate pano head, 10-22
                                              canon lens and 400d camera.

                                              The Nodal point I used is at the edge of the rubber zoom ring near the
                                              front of the lens (near the gold ring)

                                              The close marker was at about 1 metre and back marker at 10 metres

                                              10 mm and 22mm parallax is very close to identical maybe 1 or 2 pixels
                                              only.

                                              The intermediates were different by a small amount about 10 pixels
                                              (not measured, but worth adjusting the head for if anything is in the
                                              foreground.

                                              FWIW I have an example of 14mm shot at 10mm NP and 10mm at 10mm NP at

                                              http://www.mc-photography.com.au/panorama.html
                                              the top one (with the boats) is 14mm at 10mm NP
                                              the other 2 are 10mm @10mm NP

                                              Wishing everyone all the best for the festive season

                                              Mark
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