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Re: Information commissioner: very final !

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  • Hans
    ... Yes this is vey true. I just went through the panoramas with people in them I have published at panoramas.dk and found that almost all of them can be
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 1, 2011
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      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Matt Smith <masmith@...> wrote:
      >
      > I was thinking more in the direction of
      >
      > WHAT IS AN EVENT?
      > In the eyes of the court that is...

      Yes this is vey true.

      I just went through the panoramas with people in them I have published at panoramas.dk and found that almost all of them can be defined as an event.

      However if we look at the ones I have done for Arounder Copenhagen http://copenhagen.arounder.com/
      and Arounder Aarhus http://aarhus.arounder.com/
      There are many illegal according to the Slovenian law.

      However even among these there are several which may be difficult to define.
      For example what about this one.
      http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/amalienborg-guardshift-1.html

      That is a daily event in Copenhagen.

      Or what about the tourists at the Little Mermaid
      http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/the-little-mermaid.html

      Hans






      >
      >
      > Matt Smith
      > PhotoSpherix
      > 317.396.5791
      > Spin 360 Product Photography
      > Indianapolis, Indiana USA
      > http://www.photospherix.com
      >
      > On Dec 1, 2011, at 5:19 AM, Robert Slade wrote:
      >
      > > Bostjan,
      > >
      > > I have been following your plight, and really sorry to hear this latest
      > > awful news for you. Perhaps this is the problem when people with limited
      > > technical understanding become regulators.
      > >
      > > Your story has hit some of the professional photography mailing lists in
      > > the UK, so more and more people are aware of your situation.
      > >
      > > Does the Information Commissioner of Slovenia define precisely the
      > > boundary between a stills photograph and a "Virtual Reality Panorama"?
      > > Perhaps there is some way to fall outside of their definition e.g. if
      > > they mention 360x180 then produce a 360x179 degree panorama.
      > >
      > > How do they intend to check that you have deleted the source files?
      > > Surely these qualify as ordinary stills anyway? Can you store them
      > > online or mail a hard disk of images abroad?
      > >
      > > Don't let them do this to you!
      > >
      > > Best wishes,
      > > Rob
      > > --
      > >
      > > Bostjan Burger wrote:
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Now it seems very final. I hope that I have translated correctly:
      > >> Information commissioner of Slovenia has declared that Virtual Reality
      > >> panorama is collecting and maintenance of the personal data.
      > >
      > > --
      > > Robert Slade, Photographer
      > > Manor Photography 07890 564889
      > > http://www.manor-photography.com
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > --
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Robert Slade
      A sad image, which reminded me somewhat of this story here in the UK:
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 1, 2011
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        A sad image, which reminded me somewhat of this story here in the UK:

        <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1580911/PC-overkill-for-schools-internet-newsletter.html>

        Regards,
        Rob
        --

        Bostjan Burger wrote:
        >
        >
        > I have posted "So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish"... some
        > have got it some not...". Here use to be
        > Slovenia: http://www.burger.si/SLOIndex.htm

        --
        Robert Slade, Photographer
        Manor Photography 07890 564889
        http://www.manor-photography.com
      • Bostjan Burger
        According Slovenian IC (now I am trained and educated after few momnths of political education and brain wash ...lol...) none of your VRPs you gave as an
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 1, 2011
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          According Slovenian IC (now I am trained and educated after few momnths of "political education" and "brain wash" ...lol...) none of your VRPs you gave as an example would be illegal... soldiers marching is event, walking on the river is event..., maremaid ... it is event (on the limit but still ok.)

          But would be illegal: 


          You need to mask or blur peoples faces and after publishing panoramas unrecoverable destroy source photographies... but luckily it is not Slovenia nor Switzerland...

          Bostjan


          From: Hans <hans@...>
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2011 2:40 PM
          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Information commissioner: very final !

           


          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Matt Smith <masmith@...> wrote:
          >
          > I was thinking more in the direction of
          >
          > WHAT IS AN EVENT?
          > In the eyes of the court that is...

          Yes this is vey true.

          I just went through the panoramas with people in them I have published at panoramas.dk and found that almost all of them can be defined as an event.

          However if we look at the ones I have done for Arounder Copenhagen http://copenhagen.arounder.com/
          and Arounder Aarhus http://aarhus.arounder.com/
          There are many illegal according to the Slovenian law.

          However even among these there are several which may be difficult to define.
          For example what about this one.
          http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/amalienborg-guardshift-1.html

          That is a daily event in Copenhagen.

          Or what about the tourists at the Little Mermaid
          http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/the-little-mermaid.html

          Hans
        • Hans
          ... Just needs some text 1. Nyhavn was full of people last weekend because of the very beautiful late summer weather.
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 1, 2011
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            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bostjan Burger <si_lander@...> wrote:
            >
            > According Slovenian IC (now I am trained and educated after few momnths of "political education" and "brain wash" ...lol...) none of your VRPs you gave as an example would be illegal... soldiers marching is event, walking on the river is event..., maremaid ... it is event (on the limit but still ok.)
            >
            > But would be illegal: 
            >
            > http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/nyhavn-1.html
            > http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/nyhavn-2.html

            Just needs some text
            1. Nyhavn was full of people last weekend because of the very beautiful late summer weather. http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/nyhavn-1.html
            2. The Fejø Fruit ship arrived yesterday at Nyhavn at it's traditional visit each autumn.
            http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/nyhavn-2.html

            Hans

            >
            > http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/stroeget-at-amagertorv.html%c2%a0... e.t.c...
            >
            >
            > You need to mask or blur peoples faces and after publishing panoramas unrecoverable destroy source photographies... but luckily it is not Slovenia nor Switzerland...
            >
            > Bostjan
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Hans <hans@...>
            > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2011 2:40 PM
            > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Information commissioner: very final !
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Matt Smith <masmith@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I was thinking more in the direction of
            > >
            > > WHAT IS AN EVENT?
            > > In the eyes of the court that is...
            >
            > Yes this is vey true.
            >
            > I just went through the panoramas with people in them I have published at panoramas.dk and found that almost all of them can be defined as an event.
            >
            > However if we look at the ones I have done for Arounder Copenhagen http://copenhagen.arounder.com/
            > and Arounder Aarhus http://aarhus.arounder.com/
            > There are many illegal according to the Slovenian law.
            >
            > However even among these there are several which may be difficult to define.
            > For example what about this one.
            > http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/amalienborg-guardshift-1.html
            >
            > That is a daily event in Copenhagen.
            >
            > Or what about the tourists at the Little Mermaid
            > http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/the-little-mermaid.html
            >
            > Hans
            >
          • Bostjan Burger
            With that argument the No.2 should be legal... but you need to explain that with the short text nearby panorama. I have got a list of my illegal panoramas and
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 1, 2011
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              With that argument the No.2 should be legal... but you need to explain that with the short text nearby panorama. I have got a list of my illegal panoramas and one was from the year 2006 on September 22nd taken on the railway station. It was a No Car day. IC claimed that panorama is illegal even it was written in the nadir that was an event. Luckly I had published that panorama to WWP Transport event: http://worldwidepanorama.org/worldwidepanorama/wwp906/html/BostjanBurger-2479.html .
              A good argument would be taking panorama for WWP events... seriously.

              Boštjan


              From: Hans <hans@...>
              To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2011 4:07 PM
              Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Information commissioner: very final !

               


              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bostjan Burger <si_lander@...> wrote:
              >

              > According Slovenian IC (now I am trained and educated after few momnths of "political education" and "brain wash" ...lol...) none of your VRPs you gave as an example would be illegal... soldiers marching is event, walking on the river is event..., maremaid ... it is event (on the limit but still ok.)

              >

              > But would be illegal: 

              >

              > http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/nyhavn-1.html

              > http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/nyhavn-2.html


              Just needs some text
              1. Nyhavn was full of people last weekend because of the very beautiful late summer weather. http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/nyhavn-1.html
              2. The Fejø Fruit ship arrived yesterday at Nyhavn at it's traditional visit each autumn.
              http://copenhagen.arounder.com/en/city-tour/nyhavn-2.html

              Hans

            • Christian Bloch
              Wow. I sure hope newspapers will warn potential tourists that all their photos in slovenia will be illegal. Better hand out stacks of model releases at the
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 1, 2011
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                Wow.

                I sure hope newspapers will warn potential tourists that all their photos in slovenia will be illegal. Better hand out stacks of model releases at the border. Also, they should set an example and have police confiscate all camera phones on some popular tourist spot.

                Sorry about that.

                Blochi
              • prague
                Bostjan, Why do you take all your panos offline again? Why don t you fight it? Isn t it the *obligation* of citizens to resist laws that are unjust? Otherwise,
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 3, 2011
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                  Bostjan,

                  Why do you take all your panos offline again?

                  Why don't you fight it?

                  Isn't it the *obligation* of citizens to resist laws that are unjust? Otherwise, how can anything be changed?

                  You have gotten a lot of sympathy from fellow photographers over this, but that won't get anyone very far, and certainly won't change anything.

                  Jeffrey



                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bloch <Blochi@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Wow.
                  >
                  > I sure hope newspapers will warn potential tourists that all their photos in slovenia will be illegal. Better hand out stacks of model releases at the border. Also, they should set an example and have police confiscate all camera phones on some popular tourist spot.
                  >
                  > Sorry about that.
                  >
                  > Blochi
                  >
                • Bostjan Burger
                  I didn t take all my panos offline and I didn t announce that. I have kept that what is needed for e-learning programmes with direct links to my site (web
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 3, 2011
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                    I didn't take all my panos offline and I didn't announce that. I have kept that what is needed for e-learning programmes with direct links to my site (web sites but mostly moodle e-learnig classrooms). And I am  still taking panos - here I was two days ago:  http://www.burger.si/KSA/Rzenik/01.html%c2%a0and here: http://www.burger.si/KSA/Konj/01.html%c2%a0. (documenting Alps: http://www.burger.si/KSA/ksa_zemljevid.html%c2%a0) That panos show acctuall my daily life ...  I am not "urban" man... towns and streets are only a very small part of my panos.
                    I have taken away only urban areas ... most of people "have got" the parody "So long and thanks ..." from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy . That space birocartic creatures and (slovenian) birocracy... that is my way of the protest, as it was that masking peoples faces with African masks... as masking was not enought, but I need to unrecoverby  delete my source images after masking, it was safe to remove masked panos and find other resistance. As a fair citizen I need to obey the legal institution but I have a right to make a fun from it in a fair way untill it change the decision. Here in Slovenia are only random shooting panoraphers and only few responded. Even some Slovenian diplomats has responded using my web site for a Slovenian promotion last decade, as some stuff has vanished and that text from HG2Galaxy appeared... they got a clue and it very embarrassing...but not for me ;)

                    Boštjan

                    ________________________________
                    From: prague <panoramas@...>
                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2011 9:19 PM
                    Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Information commissioner: very final !




                    Bostjan,

                    Why do you take all your panos offline again?

                    Why don't you fight it?

                    Isn't it the *obligation* of citizens to resist laws that are unjust? Otherwise, how can anything be changed?

                    You have gotten a lot of sympathy from fellow photographers over this, but that won't get anyone very far, and certainly won't change anything.

                    Jeffrey

                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bloch <Blochi@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Wow.
                    >
                    > I sure hope newspapers will warn potential tourists that all their photos in slovenia will be illegal. Better hand out stacks of model releases at the border. Also, they should set an example and have police confiscate all camera phones on some popular tourist spot.
                    >
                    > Sorry about that.
                    >
                    > Blochi
                    >


                     
                  • Kathy Wheeler
                    Hey Bostjan :-) ... I can t help but think that (unrecoverably delete) is in breach of many national and international codes, your own copyright to say the
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 3, 2011
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                      Hey Bostjan :-)


                      On 12/04/2011, at 8:17 AM, Bostjan Burger wrote:
                      > but I need to unrecoverby delete my source images after masking,

                      I can't help but think that (unrecoverably delete) is in breach of many national and international codes, your own copyright to say the least. Or doesn't Slovenia recognise copyright laws? Or human rights, or the right to work to earn a living etc?


                      > As a fair citizen I need to obey the legal institution but I have a right to make a fun from it in a fair way untill it change the decision.


                      You have plenty of friends, perhaps whenever you want to take an urban pano you should announce it as an event, and invite people down to partake in it. Put signs up (perhaps printed on the backs of your volunteers T-shirts/jackets) that anyone who does not want to get in the pictures should keep away? Then not only can you call it an "event", anyone who participates will have given their permission, and you could get some free publicity for it - good for you, perhaps not so good for your oppressors ...

                      KathyW.
                    • Mark Fink
                      ... It would be a tragedy if someone stole one of your backup drives with all of your source images and escaped the country before being apprehended. Truly a
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 3, 2011
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                        >... I need to unrecoverby  delete my source images after masking,

                        It would be a tragedy if someone stole one of your backup drives with all of
                        your source images and escaped the country before being apprehended. Truly a
                        tragedy... ;^)

                        Mark

                        ________________________________
                        From: prague <panoramas@...>
                        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2011 9:19 PM
                        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Information commissioner: very final !




                        Bostjan,

                        Why do you take all your panos offline again?

                        Why don't you fight it?

                        Isn't it the *obligation* of citizens to resist laws that are unjust?
                        Otherwise, how can anything be changed?

                        You have gotten a lot of sympathy from fellow photographers over this, but
                        that won't get anyone very far, and certainly won't change anything.

                        Jeffrey

                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bloch <Blochi@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Wow.
                        >
                        > I sure hope newspapers will warn potential tourists that all their photos
                        in slovenia will be illegal. Better hand out stacks of model releases at the
                        border. Also, they should set an example and have police confiscate all
                        camera phones on some popular tourist spot.
                        >
                        > Sorry about that.
                        >
                        > Blochi
                        >


                         


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