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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Is a Sigma 4.5mm circular fisheye worth the trouble?

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  • Ken Warner
    I ve decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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      I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.

      prague wrote:
      > No, it's an awful lens. not worth it.
      >
      >
      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...> wrote:
      >> You know, the full circle fisheye for APS-C cameras. I've read others thoughts and they say 6 around + Z + N which seems kind of stupid when you can do 4 around + N with a full frame fisheye.
      >>
      >> Just wondering because I found a cheap one.
      >>
      >
      >
      >
    • Gerhard Killesreiter
      ... Hash: SHA1 ... What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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        Am 28.11.2011 13:36, schrieb Ken Warner:
        > I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.

        What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
        minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to single-row.




        Cheers,
        Gerhard
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      • Mark D. Fink
        I shoot with a full frame, but wouldn t the Tokina 10-17 come very close to four around with a nadir shot if you tilted it up about 10 degrees? Mark
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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          I shoot with a full frame, but wouldn't the Tokina 10-17 come very close to
          four around with a nadir shot if you tilted it up about 10 degrees?

          Mark

          www.northernlight.net
          www.virtual-travels.com
          www.pinnacle-vr.com

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Gerhard Killesreiter
          > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:41 AM
          > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Is a Sigma 4.5mm circular fisheye worth the
          > trouble?
          >
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          > Am 28.11.2011 13:36, schrieb Ken Warner:
          > > I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.
          >
          > What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
          > minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to single-
          > row.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Gerhard
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        • Matthew Rogers
          But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma 8mm. Matt
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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            But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma 8mm.

            Matt

            On 28 Nov 2011, at 12:41, Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:

             

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            Am 28.11.2011 13:36, schrieb Ken Warner:
            > I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.

            What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
            minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to single-row.

            Cheers,
            Gerhard
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          • Gerhard Killesreiter
            ... Hash: SHA1 ... Maybe it would. I can t try it since I don t have the lense. :p I had considered that lens (in its Pentax version) in slant (ie putting
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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              Am 28.11.2011 14:03, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
              > I shoot with a full frame, but wouldn't the Tokina 10-17 come very close to
              > four around with a nadir shot if you tilted it up about 10 degrees?

              Maybe it would. I can't try it since I don't have the lense. :p

              I had considered that lens (in its Pentax version) in "slant" (ie
              putting the diagonal vertically) mode. But I can't find any examples
              showing that it works.

              Cheers,
              Gerhard
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            • Gerhard Killesreiter
              ... Hash: SHA1 ... Was that in reply to the Tokina recommendation? Or another comment on the Sigma 4.5mm? In any case: Sigma doesn t offer the 8mm for Pentax,
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                Am 28.11.2011 14:04, schrieb Matthew Rogers:
                > But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma 8mm.


                Was that in reply to the Tokina recommendation? Or another comment on
                the Sigma 4.5mm? In any case: Sigma doesn't offer the 8mm for Pentax,
                but there's a 8-16mm.

                Cheers,
                Gerhard
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              • Gerhard Killesreiter
                ... Hash: SHA1 ... Ah, the 8-16mm isn t fishy, it s a normal wide-angle zoom. So, rather the Samyang than the 10-17mm? Cheers, Gerhard ... Version: GnuPG
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                  Am 29.11.2011 00:21, schrieb Gerhard Killesreiter:
                  > Am 28.11.2011 14:04, schrieb Matthew Rogers:
                  >> But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma 8mm.
                  >
                  >
                  > Was that in reply to the Tokina recommendation? Or another comment on
                  > the Sigma 4.5mm? In any case: Sigma doesn't offer the 8mm for Pentax,
                  > but there's a 8-16mm.

                  Ah, the 8-16mm isn't fishy, it's a normal wide-angle zoom.

                  So, rather the Samyang than the 10-17mm?

                  Cheers,
                  Gerhard
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                • Jesse Garnier
                  ... Let s hold on just a second. The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it s certainly capable of delivering results better than awful
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                    on 11/28/11 4:22 AM, prague wrote:

                    > No, it's an awful lens. not worth it.

                    on 11/28/11 5:04 AM, Matthew Rogers wrote:

                    > But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting
                    > the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma
                    > 8mm.

                    Let's hold on just a second.

                    The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it's
                    certainly capable of delivering results better than "awful" or "so bad
                    you might as well not even bother." Not many other options that can
                    shoot three-around panos handheld on an APS-C sensor.

                    All shot handheld with Sigma 4.5mm:

                    http://stonehopper.com
                    http://stonehopper.com/360/
                    http://stonehopper.com/europano/

                    --
                    Jesse Garnier
                    http://stonehopper.com
                    San Francisco, Calif.
                  • Sacha Griffin
                    That’s about on par with the used to be standard sigma 8mm f4 from the days of yore. Sacha Griffin Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                      That’s about on par with the used to be standard sigma 8mm f4 from the days of yore.

                       

                      Sacha Griffin

                      Southern Digital Solutions LLC  - Atlanta, Georgia

                      http://www.seeit360.com

                      http://twitter.com/SeeIt360

                      http://www.facebook.com/SeeIt360

                      EMAIL: sachagriffin@...

                      IM: sachagriffin007@...

                      Office: 404-551-4275

                       

                       

                      on 11/28/11 4:22 AM, prague wrote:

                      > No, it's an awful lens. not worth it.

                      on 11/28/11 5:04 AM, Matthew Rogers wrote:

                      > But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting
                      > the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma
                      > 8mm.

                      Let's hold on just a second.

                      The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it's
                      certainly capable of delivering results better than "awful" or "so bad
                      you might as well not even bother." Not many other options that can
                      shoot three-around panos handheld on an APS-C sensor.

                      All shot handheld with Sigma 4.5mm:

                      http://stonehopper.com
                      http://stonehopper.com/360/
                      http://stonehopper.com/europano/

                      --
                      Jesse Garnier
                      http://stonehopper.com
                      San Francisco, Calif.

                    • Christian Bloch
                      Yeah, I was just thinking the same. Nothing that was mentioned in this thread actually provides an alternative. That is, shooting full sphericals on APS-C with
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                        Yeah, I was just thinking the same.

                        Nothing that was mentioned in this thread actually provides an alternative. That is, shooting full sphericals on APS-C with only 3 shots. The Sunnex fisheye would be an alternative, but that one is worse. Don't know of anything better.

                        4k final resolution may not be everyones cake, but it's plenty enough for CG lighting and mobile phones.

                        Blochi


                        On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Jesse Garnier wrote:

                        Let's hold on just a second.

                        The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it's 
                        certainly capable of delivering results better than "awful" or "so bad 
                        you might as well not even bother." Not many other options that can 
                        shoot three-around panos handheld on an APS-C sensor.

                      • Bjørn K Nilssen
                        ... A Samyang 7.5mm m4/3 on a NEX should come a bit close? Not a DSLR though, if the mirror is important, but the sensor is APS-C? ... -- Bjørn K Nilssen -
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                          På Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:11:24 +0100, skrev Christian Bloch <Blochi@...>:

                          > Yeah, I was just thinking the same.
                          >
                          > Nothing that was mentioned in this thread actually provides an alternative. That is, shooting full sphericals on APS-C with only 3 shots. The Sunnex fisheye would be an alternative, but that one is worse. Don't know of anything better.

                          A Samyang 7.5mm m4/3 on a NEX should come a bit close?
                          Not a DSLR though, if the mirror is important, but the sensor is APS-C?

                          >
                          > 4k final resolution may not be everyones cake, but it's plenty enough for CG lighting and mobile phones.
                          >
                          > Blochi
                          >
                          >
                          > On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Jesse Garnier wrote:
                          >
                          >> Let's hold on just a second.
                          >>
                          >> The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it's
                          >> certainly capable of delivering results better than "awful" or "so bad
                          >> you might as well not even bother." Not many other options that can
                          >> shoot three-around panos handheld on an APS-C sensor.
                          >
                          >


                          --
                          Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
                        • Roger D. Williams
                          On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:41:11 +0900, Gerhard Killesreiter ... On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:41:11 +0900, Gerhard Killesreiter ... Hash: SHA1 Am 28.11.2011 13:36,
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                            On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:41:11 +0900, Gerhard Killesreiter
                            <gerhard@...> wrote:

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                            > Am 28.11.2011 13:36, schrieb Ken Warner:
                            >> I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.
                            >
                            > What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
                            > minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to
                            > single-row.
                            On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:41:11 +0900, Gerhard Killesreiter
                            <gerhard@...> wrote:

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                            Am 28.11.2011 13:36, schrieb Ken Warner:
                            I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.

                            What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
                            minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to
                            single-row.

                            I regularly shoot four around on APS-C. My weapon is a former USSR
                            Peleng 8mm fisheye (M42 mount) on a Pentax K-x. I have to shoot with
                            the Peleng tilted and even so there are small holes at zenith and/or
                            nadir... it doesn't quite cover 180 degrees diagonally.

                            This lens has faults, but if you know and can work around them, it
                            can do an excellent job.

                            I can also shoot four around with a Sigma 8mm fisheye on Nikon 300,
                            so why do I use the Pentax/Peleng? I like the lighter camera, and I
                            find the controls, menus and settings much more convenient. There is
                            usually little to choose between the final panoramas produced on
                            one or the other of these two setups. I get much better quality when
                            I use the Nikon 10.5mm fisheye on my Fujifilm S5 Pro, although the
                            nominal resolution is lower, but I can't shoot six around reliably
                            using a monopod, I hate lugging around a tripod, and the extra
                            stitching involved with six around (plus an extra one up or down
                            if I don't want to have to extensive hole plugging) is just too
                            much extra trouble.

                            So Pentax plus Peleng is what I usually use.

                            Three around is my dream. I could do this with film; I used the
                            Peleng with the M42 mount SLR Voigtlander Bessaflex. But scanning
                            all those negatives just got to be too much trouble. And even
                            then I tended to shoot four around just to have sufficient overlap
                            to deal with doppelgangers. When you shoot with a camera turned
                            to get the diagonal vertical, the seams tends to cut people off
                            at the knees, which makes for stitching problems... <sigh>

                            Roger W.

                            --
                            Business: www.adex-japan.com
                            Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                            Panorama: Rogerama at Photosynth
                          • Gerhard Killesreiter
                            ... Hash: SHA1 ... Thanks, but I already have a camera. :) Cheers, Gerhard ... Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 29, 2011
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                              Am 29.11.2011 02:21, schrieb Bjørn K Nilssen:
                              > På Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:11:24 +0100, skrev Christian Bloch <Blochi@...>:
                              >
                              >> Yeah, I was just thinking the same.
                              >>
                              >> Nothing that was mentioned in this thread actually provides an alternative. That is, shooting full sphericals on APS-C with only 3 shots. The Sunnex fisheye would be an alternative, but that one is worse. Don't know of anything better.
                              >
                              > A Samyang 7.5mm m4/3 on a NEX should come a bit close?
                              > Not a DSLR though, if the mirror is important, but the sensor is APS-C?

                              Thanks, but I already have a camera. :)

                              Cheers,
                              Gerhard
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                            • prague
                              sigma 8, peleng 8, canon 8-15..... 4 shots around spherical pano MUCH bigger pano than sigma 4.5 definitely worth the 33% longer shooting time ;-)
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                sigma 8, peleng 8, canon 8-15.....

                                4 shots around spherical pano

                                MUCH bigger pano than sigma 4.5

                                definitely worth the 33% longer shooting time ;-)



                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Gerhard Killesreiter <gerhard@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
                                > minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to single-row.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • prague
                                3 shots around vs. 4 shots around: unless you re shooting more than 100 panos a day, there is no difference in your time. Certainly the 4 shots around will
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                  3 shots around vs. 4 shots around: unless you're shooting more than 100 panos a day, there is no difference in your time. Certainly the 4 shots around will give you such better quality that it is worth it...

                                  ...unless you're shooting HDRI light maps, or panos only for mobile phones... in which case you might as well shoot your panos with a $20 front door peephole fisheye... just joking... well, half-joking....

                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bloch <Blochi@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Yeah, I was just thinking the same.
                                  >
                                  > Nothing that was mentioned in this thread actually provides an alternative. That is, shooting full sphericals on APS-C with only 3 shots. The Sunnex fisheye would be an alternative, but that one is worse. Don't know of anything better.
                                  >
                                  > 4k final resolution may not be everyones cake, but it's plenty enough for CG lighting and mobile phones.
                                  >
                                  > Blochi
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Jesse Garnier wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Let's hold on just a second.
                                  > >
                                  > > The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it's
                                  > > certainly capable of delivering results better than "awful" or "so bad
                                  > > you might as well not even bother." Not many other options that can
                                  > > shoot three-around panos handheld on an APS-C sensor.
                                  >
                                • Keith Davison
                                  I ve found that the Canon 8-15mm really clips the top and bottom on APS-C, so BIG zenith and nadir holes at 8mm if levelled. You can tilt to close one hole or
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                    I've found that the Canon 8-15mm really clips the top and bottom on APS-C, so BIG zenith
                                    and nadir holes at 8mm if levelled. You can tilt to close one hole or the other, but you'll still
                                    need a fifth shot to patch a full sphere.

                                    Lovely quality though.

                                    KeithD

                                    > sigma 8, peleng 8, canon 8-15.....
                                    >
                                    > 4 shots around spherical pano
                                    >
                                    > MUCH bigger pano than sigma 4.5
                                    >
                                    > definitely worth the 33% longer shooting time ;-)
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