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Is a Sigma 4.5mm circular fisheye worth the trouble?

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  • Ken Warner
    You know, the full circle fisheye for APS-C cameras. I ve read others thoughts and they say 6 around + Z + N which seems kind of stupid when you can do 4
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 27, 2011
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      You know, the full circle fisheye for APS-C cameras. I've read others thoughts and they say 6 around + Z + N which seems kind of stupid when you can do 4 around + N with a full frame fisheye.

      Just wondering because I found a cheap one.
    • Christian Bloch
      I m doing 3 around with the D300s + Sigma 4.5. I simply shoot between the open legs of the tripod, angled up ca. 10 deg. Results in 4k panos that are pretty
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 27, 2011
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        I'm doing 3 around with the D300s + Sigma 4.5. I simply shoot between the open legs of the tripod, angled up ca. 10 deg. Results in 4k panos that are pretty clean and have the zenith included. Almost all my on-set panos are shot like this, because it goes so damn fast. 

        There are supposedly two versions of this lens, make sure to get the f2.8 one. CA is strong, but not terrible and easy to correct. Gotta shoot RAW with this lens.

        Blochi


        On Nov 27, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Ken Warner wrote:

        Just wondering because I found a cheap one.



      • Ken Warner
        Good info -- thanks.
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 27, 2011
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          Good info -- thanks.

          Christian Bloch wrote:
          > I'm doing 3 around with the D300s + Sigma 4.5. I simply shoot between the open legs of the tripod, angled up ca. 10 deg. Results in 4k panos that are pretty clean and have the zenith included. Almost all my on-set panos are shot like this, because it goes so damn fast.
          >
          > There are supposedly two versions of this lens, make sure to get the f2.8 one. CA is strong, but not terrible and easy to correct. Gotta shoot RAW with this lens.
          >
          > Blochi
          >
          >
          > On Nov 27, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Ken Warner wrote:
          >
          >> Just wondering because I found a cheap one.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
        • prague
          No, it s an awful lens. not worth it.
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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            No, it's an awful lens. not worth it.


            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...> wrote:
            >
            > You know, the full circle fisheye for APS-C cameras. I've read others thoughts and they say 6 around + Z + N which seems kind of stupid when you can do 4 around + N with a full frame fisheye.
            >
            > Just wondering because I found a cheap one.
            >
          • Ken Warner
            I ve decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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              I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.

              prague wrote:
              > No, it's an awful lens. not worth it.
              >
              >
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...> wrote:
              >> You know, the full circle fisheye for APS-C cameras. I've read others thoughts and they say 6 around + Z + N which seems kind of stupid when you can do 4 around + N with a full frame fisheye.
              >>
              >> Just wondering because I found a cheap one.
              >>
              >
              >
              >
            • Gerhard Killesreiter
              ... Hash: SHA1 ... What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                Am 28.11.2011 13:36, schrieb Ken Warner:
                > I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.

                What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
                minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to single-row.




                Cheers,
                Gerhard
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              • Mark D. Fink
                I shoot with a full frame, but wouldn t the Tokina 10-17 come very close to four around with a nadir shot if you tilted it up about 10 degrees? Mark
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                  I shoot with a full frame, but wouldn't the Tokina 10-17 come very close to
                  four around with a nadir shot if you tilted it up about 10 degrees?

                  Mark

                  www.northernlight.net
                  www.virtual-travels.com
                  www.pinnacle-vr.com

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf Of Gerhard Killesreiter
                  > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:41 AM
                  > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Is a Sigma 4.5mm circular fisheye worth the
                  > trouble?
                  >
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                  > Am 28.11.2011 13:36, schrieb Ken Warner:
                  > > I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.
                  >
                  > What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
                  > minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to single-
                  > row.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  > Gerhard
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                • Matthew Rogers
                  But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma 8mm. Matt
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                    But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma 8mm.

                    Matt

                    On 28 Nov 2011, at 12:41, Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:

                     

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                    Am 28.11.2011 13:36, schrieb Ken Warner:
                    > I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.

                    What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
                    minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to single-row.

                    Cheers,
                    Gerhard
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                  • Gerhard Killesreiter
                    ... Hash: SHA1 ... Maybe it would. I can t try it since I don t have the lense. :p I had considered that lens (in its Pentax version) in slant (ie putting
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                      Am 28.11.2011 14:03, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
                      > I shoot with a full frame, but wouldn't the Tokina 10-17 come very close to
                      > four around with a nadir shot if you tilted it up about 10 degrees?

                      Maybe it would. I can't try it since I don't have the lense. :p

                      I had considered that lens (in its Pentax version) in "slant" (ie
                      putting the diagonal vertically) mode. But I can't find any examples
                      showing that it works.

                      Cheers,
                      Gerhard
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                    • Gerhard Killesreiter
                      ... Hash: SHA1 ... Was that in reply to the Tokina recommendation? Or another comment on the Sigma 4.5mm? In any case: Sigma doesn t offer the 8mm for Pentax,
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                        Am 28.11.2011 14:04, schrieb Matthew Rogers:
                        > But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma 8mm.


                        Was that in reply to the Tokina recommendation? Or another comment on
                        the Sigma 4.5mm? In any case: Sigma doesn't offer the 8mm for Pentax,
                        but there's a 8-16mm.

                        Cheers,
                        Gerhard
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                      • Gerhard Killesreiter
                        ... Hash: SHA1 ... Ah, the 8-16mm isn t fishy, it s a normal wide-angle zoom. So, rather the Samyang than the 10-17mm? Cheers, Gerhard ... Version: GnuPG
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                          Am 29.11.2011 00:21, schrieb Gerhard Killesreiter:
                          > Am 28.11.2011 14:04, schrieb Matthew Rogers:
                          >> But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma 8mm.
                          >
                          >
                          > Was that in reply to the Tokina recommendation? Or another comment on
                          > the Sigma 4.5mm? In any case: Sigma doesn't offer the 8mm for Pentax,
                          > but there's a 8-16mm.

                          Ah, the 8-16mm isn't fishy, it's a normal wide-angle zoom.

                          So, rather the Samyang than the 10-17mm?

                          Cheers,
                          Gerhard
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                        • Jesse Garnier
                          ... Let s hold on just a second. The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it s certainly capable of delivering results better than awful
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                            on 11/28/11 4:22 AM, prague wrote:

                            > No, it's an awful lens. not worth it.

                            on 11/28/11 5:04 AM, Matthew Rogers wrote:

                            > But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting
                            > the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma
                            > 8mm.

                            Let's hold on just a second.

                            The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it's
                            certainly capable of delivering results better than "awful" or "so bad
                            you might as well not even bother." Not many other options that can
                            shoot three-around panos handheld on an APS-C sensor.

                            All shot handheld with Sigma 4.5mm:

                            http://stonehopper.com
                            http://stonehopper.com/360/
                            http://stonehopper.com/europano/

                            --
                            Jesse Garnier
                            http://stonehopper.com
                            San Francisco, Calif.
                          • Sacha Griffin
                            That’s about on par with the used to be standard sigma 8mm f4 from the days of yore. Sacha Griffin Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                              That’s about on par with the used to be standard sigma 8mm f4 from the days of yore.

                               

                              Sacha Griffin

                              Southern Digital Solutions LLC  - Atlanta, Georgia

                              http://www.seeit360.com

                              http://twitter.com/SeeIt360

                              http://www.facebook.com/SeeIt360

                              EMAIL: sachagriffin@...

                              IM: sachagriffin007@...

                              Office: 404-551-4275

                               

                               

                              on 11/28/11 4:22 AM, prague wrote:

                              > No, it's an awful lens. not worth it.

                              on 11/28/11 5:04 AM, Matthew Rogers wrote:

                              > But the quality is so bad you may as well not even bother shooting
                              > the pano. The best choice would be either the Samyang 8mm or Sigma
                              > 8mm.

                              Let's hold on just a second.

                              The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it's
                              certainly capable of delivering results better than "awful" or "so bad
                              you might as well not even bother." Not many other options that can
                              shoot three-around panos handheld on an APS-C sensor.

                              All shot handheld with Sigma 4.5mm:

                              http://stonehopper.com
                              http://stonehopper.com/360/
                              http://stonehopper.com/europano/

                              --
                              Jesse Garnier
                              http://stonehopper.com
                              San Francisco, Calif.

                            • Christian Bloch
                              Yeah, I was just thinking the same. Nothing that was mentioned in this thread actually provides an alternative. That is, shooting full sphericals on APS-C with
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                                Yeah, I was just thinking the same.

                                Nothing that was mentioned in this thread actually provides an alternative. That is, shooting full sphericals on APS-C with only 3 shots. The Sunnex fisheye would be an alternative, but that one is worse. Don't know of anything better.

                                4k final resolution may not be everyones cake, but it's plenty enough for CG lighting and mobile phones.

                                Blochi


                                On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Jesse Garnier wrote:

                                Let's hold on just a second.

                                The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it's 
                                certainly capable of delivering results better than "awful" or "so bad 
                                you might as well not even bother." Not many other options that can 
                                shoot three-around panos handheld on an APS-C sensor.

                              • Bjørn K Nilssen
                                ... A Samyang 7.5mm m4/3 on a NEX should come a bit close? Not a DSLR though, if the mirror is important, but the sensor is APS-C? ... -- Bjørn K Nilssen -
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                                  På Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:11:24 +0100, skrev Christian Bloch <Blochi@...>:

                                  > Yeah, I was just thinking the same.
                                  >
                                  > Nothing that was mentioned in this thread actually provides an alternative. That is, shooting full sphericals on APS-C with only 3 shots. The Sunnex fisheye would be an alternative, but that one is worse. Don't know of anything better.

                                  A Samyang 7.5mm m4/3 on a NEX should come a bit close?
                                  Not a DSLR though, if the mirror is important, but the sensor is APS-C?

                                  >
                                  > 4k final resolution may not be everyones cake, but it's plenty enough for CG lighting and mobile phones.
                                  >
                                  > Blochi
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Jesse Garnier wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> Let's hold on just a second.
                                  >>
                                  >> The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it's
                                  >> certainly capable of delivering results better than "awful" or "so bad
                                  >> you might as well not even bother." Not many other options that can
                                  >> shoot three-around panos handheld on an APS-C sensor.
                                  >
                                  >


                                  --
                                  Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
                                • Roger D. Williams
                                  On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:41:11 +0900, Gerhard Killesreiter ... On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:41:11 +0900, Gerhard Killesreiter ... Hash: SHA1 Am 28.11.2011 13:36,
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Nov 28, 2011
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                                    On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:41:11 +0900, Gerhard Killesreiter
                                    <gerhard@...> wrote:

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                                    > Am 28.11.2011 13:36, schrieb Ken Warner:
                                    >> I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.
                                    >
                                    > What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
                                    > minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to
                                    > single-row.
                                    On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:41:11 +0900, Gerhard Killesreiter
                                    <gerhard@...> wrote:

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                                    Am 28.11.2011 13:36, schrieb Ken Warner:
                                    I've decided against buying it. Thanks everybody.

                                    What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
                                    minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to
                                    single-row.

                                    I regularly shoot four around on APS-C. My weapon is a former USSR
                                    Peleng 8mm fisheye (M42 mount) on a Pentax K-x. I have to shoot with
                                    the Peleng tilted and even so there are small holes at zenith and/or
                                    nadir... it doesn't quite cover 180 degrees diagonally.

                                    This lens has faults, but if you know and can work around them, it
                                    can do an excellent job.

                                    I can also shoot four around with a Sigma 8mm fisheye on Nikon 300,
                                    so why do I use the Pentax/Peleng? I like the lighter camera, and I
                                    find the controls, menus and settings much more convenient. There is
                                    usually little to choose between the final panoramas produced on
                                    one or the other of these two setups. I get much better quality when
                                    I use the Nikon 10.5mm fisheye on my Fujifilm S5 Pro, although the
                                    nominal resolution is lower, but I can't shoot six around reliably
                                    using a monopod, I hate lugging around a tripod, and the extra
                                    stitching involved with six around (plus an extra one up or down
                                    if I don't want to have to extensive hole plugging) is just too
                                    much extra trouble.

                                    So Pentax plus Peleng is what I usually use.

                                    Three around is my dream. I could do this with film; I used the
                                    Peleng with the M42 mount SLR Voigtlander Bessaflex. But scanning
                                    all those negatives just got to be too much trouble. And even
                                    then I tended to shoot four around just to have sufficient overlap
                                    to deal with doppelgangers. When you shoot with a camera turned
                                    to get the diagonal vertical, the seams tends to cut people off
                                    at the knees, which makes for stitching problems... <sigh>

                                    Roger W.

                                    --
                                    Business: www.adex-japan.com
                                    Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                                    Panorama: Rogerama at Photosynth
                                  • Gerhard Killesreiter
                                    ... Hash: SHA1 ... Thanks, but I already have a camera. :) Cheers, Gerhard ... Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                      Am 29.11.2011 02:21, schrieb Bjørn K Nilssen:
                                      > På Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:11:24 +0100, skrev Christian Bloch <Blochi@...>:
                                      >
                                      >> Yeah, I was just thinking the same.
                                      >>
                                      >> Nothing that was mentioned in this thread actually provides an alternative. That is, shooting full sphericals on APS-C with only 3 shots. The Sunnex fisheye would be an alternative, but that one is worse. Don't know of anything better.
                                      >
                                      > A Samyang 7.5mm m4/3 on a NEX should come a bit close?
                                      > Not a DSLR though, if the mirror is important, but the sensor is APS-C?

                                      Thanks, but I already have a camera. :)

                                      Cheers,
                                      Gerhard
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                                    • prague
                                      sigma 8, peleng 8, canon 8-15..... 4 shots around spherical pano MUCH bigger pano than sigma 4.5 definitely worth the 33% longer shooting time ;-)
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                        sigma 8, peleng 8, canon 8-15.....

                                        4 shots around spherical pano

                                        MUCH bigger pano than sigma 4.5

                                        definitely worth the 33% longer shooting time ;-)



                                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Gerhard Killesreiter <gerhard@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > What alternatives are there for doing panos on aps-c when you want to
                                        > minimize the # of images? Especially when you want to keep it to single-row.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • prague
                                        3 shots around vs. 4 shots around: unless you re shooting more than 100 panos a day, there is no difference in your time. Certainly the 4 shots around will
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                          3 shots around vs. 4 shots around: unless you're shooting more than 100 panos a day, there is no difference in your time. Certainly the 4 shots around will give you such better quality that it is worth it...

                                          ...unless you're shooting HDRI light maps, or panos only for mobile phones... in which case you might as well shoot your panos with a $20 front door peephole fisheye... just joking... well, half-joking....

                                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bloch <Blochi@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Yeah, I was just thinking the same.
                                          >
                                          > Nothing that was mentioned in this thread actually provides an alternative. That is, shooting full sphericals on APS-C with only 3 shots. The Sunnex fisheye would be an alternative, but that one is worse. Don't know of anything better.
                                          >
                                          > 4k final resolution may not be everyones cake, but it's plenty enough for CG lighting and mobile phones.
                                          >
                                          > Blochi
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Jesse Garnier wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > Let's hold on just a second.
                                          > >
                                          > > The 4.5mm Sigma might not be the best lens in the world, but it's
                                          > > certainly capable of delivering results better than "awful" or "so bad
                                          > > you might as well not even bother." Not many other options that can
                                          > > shoot three-around panos handheld on an APS-C sensor.
                                          >
                                        • Keith Davison
                                          I ve found that the Canon 8-15mm really clips the top and bottom on APS-C, so BIG zenith and nadir holes at 8mm if levelled. You can tilt to close one hole or
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                            I've found that the Canon 8-15mm really clips the top and bottom on APS-C, so BIG zenith
                                            and nadir holes at 8mm if levelled. You can tilt to close one hole or the other, but you'll still
                                            need a fifth shot to patch a full sphere.

                                            Lovely quality though.

                                            KeithD

                                            > sigma 8, peleng 8, canon 8-15.....
                                            >
                                            > 4 shots around spherical pano
                                            >
                                            > MUCH bigger pano than sigma 4.5
                                            >
                                            > definitely worth the 33% longer shooting time ;-)
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