Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: 360precision atome in google streetview

Expand Messages
  • jrgen_schrader
    Well, Jeffrey (and all other respective folks out there), if you would try to understand what Ignacio said you would find out that he is completely right and
    Message 1 of 41 , Nov 2, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Well, Jeffrey (and all other respective folks out there), if you would try to understand what Ignacio said you would find out that he is completely right and which is also one of the reasons why I stopped contributing to 360cities a long while ago. And it's just because I'm too lazy, that the ones I uploaded are still there. Meanwhile I get the impression that it might even be better to take them away.

      Which of course has nothing to do with your occasional rants or the actual case here. So why?

      It's like Ignacio said, that I've been working long and hard to get to a certain standard and got some clients who appreciate that standard and who are willing to pay for it. So even if I would for - some reasons - make a step back and shoot "lower priced" work I would never want to make that public, simply because that's not my standard and would lower my reputation.

      One can't sell first class products by advertising second class products. And of course one can't advertise first class products surrounded by second (and lower) class products. But that's exactly what mass market is all about.

      It's always the same with any craft. Either you do masses at a low price or high quality at a high price. Both is eligible and each has it's rights. And needless to say both even benefit from each other. But the marketing for each is entirely different.

      Exposure doesn't pay my bills and - as you said - 80-90% of the common viewer won't be able to tell the difference anyway. So for me as an extremely ambitious photographer it's not only a waste of time but can even be counterproductive to upload my work to a platform that's not playing in the same league.

      Just in case ;) I want to point out that personally I have absolutely no objections against you and your buddies at 360cities, but feel that someone needs to explain a bit more detailed why 360cities may not be everybodies darling.

      Cheers
      Jürgen

      Elitist and Beginners-Workshop teacher :)





      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <panoramas@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > hi Ignacio,
      >
      > While we discuss this off-list, I should probably reply on-list to your message.
      >
      > You definitely misunderstood me if you think I have a problem with perfectionists. I mean, seriously, come on man - how on earth could you possibly think that I think badly of people who make perfect panos? Come on :-)))
      >
      > I have a problem with perfectionists who speak badly of things that aren't perfect. That, to me, will not encourage innovation, or help us grow the medium of 360 photography.
      >
      > "A rising tide lifts all boats."
      >
      > Sorry that you took my statements the wrong way. Even after we have met in person, in Portugal, I am really surprised you'd interpret my statements in such a way that I'd be insulting the work of people like you. I ask you to please read it again with this in mind and understand that what you think I said, is not what I was saying.
      >
      > cheers,
      > Jeffrey
      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ignacio Ferrando Margel� <fotografia@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Jeffrey,
      > >
      > > Yes, I'm a perfectionist, and what?? it's that bad??
      > >
      > > You think that the way is to lower the quality of the panos?, I'm sorry but it's not my way... in the last 15 years I have worked hard to make my work as best as possible and to find the clients that could pay for that. I understand that will be a low cost / low quality market on panoramic photography as that happens in almost every aspect of our economy, but for now I'm not really interested on play in these league. And as you think that I do "some obscure art with tiny audience" I have just decided to not more contribute with my "obscure art" in your 360Cities business and just deleted all my photos and asked to delete my account.
      > >
      > > regards
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > El 01/11/2011, a las 10:43, prague escribi�:
      > >
      > > > Guys. And Girls. With all due respect....and excuse my occasionally foul language:
      > > >
      > > > It's these universally negative responses that really gets me down about this community, and convinces me nearly completely that there will be NO great community of 360 photographers, NO great standards of data portability, NO great aggregator, NO central place for all things panoramic - there will be nothing like that. We are a bunch of perfectionist, bickering, jealous elitists who are digging our own grave with respect to this medium that deserves so much more (and which I have actually been devoting my entire working life to for the last 6 years)
      > > >
      > > > Now, do you remember 5 or 6 years ago when you'd try to sell your services to someone, and they don't know what the fuck a QTVR or panoramic photo is (or whatever it is we call it, we can't even agree on that) ?
      > > >
      > > > Nowadays, most web-using humans DO know what it is. Do you know why? It's because Google has made it *extremely* widespread. Yeah, they made images with some stitching errors in them. But you know what? They made something like 100 MILLION of these panoramas (total guess). Unless you are living under a rock, you HAVE seen these images, there is probably one of your house. Unless you are a great troll in total denial, these are images that are just like the ones you make (except they have additional 3d depth data as well as extremely precise georeferencing)
      > > >
      > > > Yeah, and now they are trying to make panoramas inside. From what it looks like to me, they're using automatic exposure, bracketing, and some kind of exposure fusion to make the capture process entirely automatic. And you know what? Ask 50 NORMAL PEOPLE if they can tell the difference, and probably 45 of them won't be able to tell the difference between this low-cost version, and your painstakingly hand-made, retouched version. People just don't care about that. Admit it! Am I saying that you as a photographer should only produce lower-quality content? Of course not.
      > > >
      > > > I think comparing one of these Google-produced panoramas with your own is completely missing the point. Everything Google does has the idea of massive scale behind it. The kind of scale that most people have simply never even thought about. How do you get to the hundreds of millions? The mind boggles. What if it results in a bit of ghosting from the automatic exposure bracketing? Who really gives a shit? We're talking about covering the ENTIRE WORLD, people.
      > > >
      > > > Did you ever think about how maybe our medium (360 photography) might benefit if you lowered your standards a bit, and shot 100x more panoramas than you do now? And if the bar was lowered enough that "non photographers" could also make spherical panoramas without any trouble? This is the kind of stuff that will take this medium to the mainstream, and not make it get lost in geek obscurity. The great stuff will float to the top - it always does. (And these google interior panos, just like streetview, are only going to get better and better)
      > > >
      > > > Make no mistake: the sentiments expressed so far in this thread (and many others) are not going to push this medium forward into further familiarity and popularity. Quite the opposite.
      > > >
      > > > Now, I'm going to continue to help as many clueless people as possible learn how to make shitty panos. Because that's what we were all doing once, until we became good at it. And that's what is going to turn our tiny niche into something significant.
      > > >
      > > > Sorry for the rant but seriously guys, I don't want to be alone making some obscure art with a tiny audience, patching nadirs that no one is going to see. But I have a feeling that many of you will do exactly that.
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Ignacio Ferrando Margel�
      > >
      > > 976 297980 / 646154023
      > >
      > > Abaco Digital
      > >
      > > http://www.abaco-digital.es
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > En cumplimiento de lo dispuesto en el art�culo 5 de la Ley Org�nica 15/19999, de 13 de diciembre, de Protecci�n de Datos de Car�cter Personal, le informamos de la existencia de un fichero de datos de car�cter personal cuyo titular y responsable es ABACO DIGITAL S.L. La recogida y tratamiento de sus datos tiene como finalidad gestionar las relaciones comerciales, jur�dicas o contractuales que le vinculen con esta entidad.
      > > Usted podr� en todo momento ejercitar sus derechos de acceso, rectificaci�n, cancelaci�n y oposici�n al tratamiento de datos personales, en la forma legalmente prevista, mediante comunicaci�n firmada y remitida a ABACO DIGITAL, S.L., sito en M�ndez N��ez 31, 3� dcha, C.P. 50003 de Zaragoza.
      > >
      >
    • jrgen_schrader
      Thank you, Eduardo. I m glad to see there still seem to be people who understand what an open discussion means. I simply don t get why people can t live with
      Message 41 of 41 , Nov 4, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Thank you, Eduardo. I'm glad to see there still seem to be people who understand what an open discussion means. I simply don't get why people can't live with other peoples opinions, even not, when they take their time and explain their motivation in detail.

        Using killerphrases (if at all) is not the way to cultivate a discussion where people could benefit from.

        Cheers
        Jürgen


        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Eduardo Hutter <montreal360@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm sorry, but this is a "discussion list". Discussion. And as such,
        > nothing more than discussions and exchange of information should be
        > expected, and that's precisely the goal of the list. Of course, 360Cities
        > being such a big player on the subject covered here, it will at some point
        > get into the *discussions*.
        >
        > This is not trolling, it's a discussion. Not sharing the same point of
        > view, and strongly defending them , is not trolling. Even treating others
        > personal POVs with disdain and saying they cannot be reasoned with- no
        > matter the logic behind it, and no matter how much I disagree with that
        > kind of atittude, but hey, this isn't news -is not trolling.
        >
        > Of course, personal attacks dont fit in this category and should be taken
        > elsewhere. But even then, personal attacks are not necessarely trolling.
        >
        > regards,
        >
        > Eduardo
        >
        > On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 8:40 AM, zen.alien <zenalien@...>wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi Jeffrey...
        > >
        > > may I suggest to remember the rule #14 of the internet ?
        > >
        > > - Do not argue with trolls - It means that they win.
        > >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.