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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: OT - creating spatial models from 3 panoramas

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  • Bjørn K Nilssen
    ... I wish it was ;) Like Hans, I think it was Greg Downing? Or Blochi? ... -- Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@bknilssen.no - 3D and panoramas
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 1, 2011
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      På Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:15:21 +0100, skrev erik_leeman <erik.leeman@...>:

      > Do a search for (or ask) Bjørn Kåre Nilssen, member of this list, most likely it was his work.

      I wish it was ;)

      Like Hans, I think it was Greg Downing?
      Or Blochi?


      > Cheers,
      >
      > Erik Leeman
      >
      > <http://www.erikleeman.com> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>
      >
      >
      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jeffreycb2000" wrote:
      >>
      >> Many many years ago there was a post to a web site that was researching how to recreate a plaza from 3 spherical panoramas from differing positions. The output model re-created the plaza space and had the photographic imagery attached to the various surfaces and objects within the model. This allowed the viewer to then walk through the model anywhere (within the limits of the panorama coverage).
      >> Testing peoples memory - but would anyone know of the site or
      >> something similar.
      >> I've a friend who is investigating from the laser scanning and pano
      >> overlay side and I thought this would be interesting to show them.
      >> Thanks
      >> Jeffrey


      --
      Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
    • erik_leeman
      By the way, I can confirm that it s indeed perfectly possible to reconstruct an interior s 3D geometry from the cube faces of three 360x180 degree panoramas
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 1, 2011
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        By the way, I can confirm that it's indeed perfectly possible to reconstruct an interior's 3D geometry from the cube faces of three 360x180 degree panoramas using Google's SketchUp and its Photo Match module. I'm still learning to work with SketchUp, so I didn't try the texture-pasting bit yet. Would be nice if that worked for this too : )

        Cheers,

        Erik Leeman

        <http://www.erikleeman.com> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>


        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
        > I wish it was ;)
        >
        > Like Hans, I think it was Greg Downing?
        > Or Blochi?
      • Christian Bloch
        I think what you re looking for is the Street in Venice example from the VTour example gallery. Which, sadly, is no longer available since Realviz was
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 1, 2011
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          I think what you're looking for is the "Street in Venice" example from the VTour example gallery.
          Which, sadly, is no longer available since Realviz was assimilated by the Borg. 

          Blochi



          On Nov 1, 2011, at 3:36 AM, erik_leeman wrote:

           

          By the way, I can confirm that it's indeed perfectly possible to reconstruct an interior's 3D geometry from the cube faces of three 360x180 degree panoramas using Google's SketchUp and its Photo Match module. I'm still learning to work with SketchUp, so I didn't try the texture-pasting bit yet. Would be nice if that worked for this too : )

          Cheers,

          Erik Leeman

          <http://www.erikleeman.com> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>

          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
          > I wish it was ;)
          >
          > Like Hans, I think it was Greg Downing?
          > Or Blochi?


        • jeffreycb2000
          Thanks all for the pointers - yes it was Greg Downing s work - I m finding it interesting that over the years all my links to interesting VR web sites and
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 2, 2011
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            Thanks all for the pointers - yes it was Greg Downing's work - I'm finding it interesting that over the years all my links to interesting VR web sites and research sites gradually stop working or the web site has upgraded and deleted the interesting bits and pieces.

            Re Sketchup - yes a very interesting, powerful and fascinating software package - and best of all its free! I've used it for many years - mapping panos inside a cylinder to create backdrops, and onto surfaces, spheres etc and to create the 3D building maps for the VR tours - sort of exploded isometric drawings floor by floor.
            There is also a plug in that allows you to take a cubic panorama from within the rendered sketchup model - lots of mind spinning possibilities!

            Thanks Again for the pointers.
            Jeffrey
          • enridp
            Wow ! this is incredible, and it s from 10 years ago (I think): http://www.gregdowning.com/pimp/index.htm Also this has a really great transition between 3D
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 3, 2011
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              Wow ! this is incredible, and it's from 10 years ago (I think):
              http://www.gregdowning.com/pimp/index.htm

              Also this has a really great transition between 3D and Photo:
              http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html

              Does somebody know a detailed tutorial for making things like that?


              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jeffreycb2000" <jeffreycb@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Many many years ago there was a post to a web site that was researching how to recreate a plaza from 3 spherical panoramas from differing positions. The output model re-created the plaza space and had the photographic imagery attached to the various surfaces and objects within the model. This allowed the viewer to then walk through the model anywhere (within the limits of the panorama coverage).
              > > Testing peoples memory - but would anyone know of the site or something similar.
              > > I've a friend who is investigating from the laser scanning and pano overlay side and I thought this would be interesting to show them.
              >
              > I guess you talk about Greg Downings Notre Dam
              > http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
              > http://www.vrmag.org/vartist/guest_artist/A_CONVERSATION_WITH_GREG_DOWNING_TRAVEL_PANORAMAS_3D_TECHNOLOGY_AND_HDRI.html
              >
              > Or the original Campanile movie, by Paul Debevec
              > http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/Campanile/
              >
              > Hans
              >
            • enridp
              I found these DVDs if anyone is interested: http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category/58/Greg-Downing But it would be nice to have an updated tutorial, I
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 4, 2011
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                I found these DVDs if anyone is interested:
                http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category/58/Greg-Downing

                But it would be nice to have an updated tutorial, I guess today there are many advances in hardware and software which can help to make the same thing with less effort and in less time.

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@...> wrote:
                >
                > Wow ! this is incredible, and it's from 10 years ago (I think):
                > http://www.gregdowning.com/pimp/index.htm
                >
                > Also this has a really great transition between 3D and Photo:
                > http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                >
                > Does somebody know a detailed tutorial for making things like that?
                >
                >
                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jeffreycb2000" <jeffreycb@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Many many years ago there was a post to a web site that was researching how to recreate a plaza from 3 spherical panoramas from differing positions. The output model re-created the plaza space and had the photographic imagery attached to the various surfaces and objects within the model. This allowed the viewer to then walk through the model anywhere (within the limits of the panorama coverage).
                > > > Testing peoples memory - but would anyone know of the site or something similar.
                > > > I've a friend who is investigating from the laser scanning and pano overlay side and I thought this would be interesting to show them.
                > >
                > > I guess you talk about Greg Downings Notre Dam
                > > http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                > > http://www.vrmag.org/vartist/guest_artist/A_CONVERSATION_WITH_GREG_DOWNING_TRAVEL_PANORAMAS_3D_TECHNOLOGY_AND_HDRI.html
                > >
                > > Or the original Campanile movie, by Paul Debevec
                > > http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/Campanile/
                > >
                > > Hans
                > >
                >
              • Bjørn K Nilssen
                ... Not really. Quite the opposite actually ;) Unless you re the owner of an Autodesk product like Max or Maya? Then you can get access to (buy?) ImageModeler,
                Message 7 of 26 , Nov 4, 2011
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                  På Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:07:38 +0100, skrev enridp <enridp@...>:

                  > I found these DVDs if anyone is interested:
                  > http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category/58/Greg-Downing
                  >
                  > But it would be nice to have an updated tutorial, I guess today there are many advances in hardware and software which can help to make the same thing with less effort and in less time.

                  Not really. Quite the opposite actually ;)
                  Unless you're the owner of an Autodesk product like Max or Maya?
                  Then you can get access to (buy?) ImageModeler, which is what Downing was using in those tuts.
                  I've used ImageModeler for many years, but when it (Realviz) was bought by Autodesk things started to happen. For a while it was available freely, but now it is not possible to buy unless yo're already a paying customer, which I'm not.
                  My version cannot use panos as source, but the Autodesk version I tested with that feature was extremely buggy and crashed all the time. At the same time they had removed some of the export formats! I never upgraded, and then the doors were closed.
                  Photomodeler is another similar tool.
                  Canoma is another oldtime favourite, swallowed by Adobe, and never seen again thereafter, unfortunately. It was very inspired by Debevec and that Campanile movie, and very fun to use :).
                  My favourite today is SketchUp with the PhotoScan plugin from tgi3d.
                  You'll find tons of tutorials on YouTube.
                  Erik Leeman is a brand new SketchUp user (but long time 3D and pano experience), and here are some of his pano/cubefaces->3D pictures on Flickr:
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/6301352751/in/photostream/
                  Looks very good :)

                  All those mentioned above are polygonal/imagemapping photogrammetry tools, but there are also a type called point-cloud tools. Laser scanning and software/photo-based scanners typically end up with lots and lots of data, and usually also lots of holes.


                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Wow ! this is incredible, and it's from 10 years ago (I think):
                  >> http://www.gregdowning.com/pimp/index.htm
                  >>
                  >> Also this has a really great transition between 3D and Photo:
                  >> http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                  >>
                  >> Does somebody know a detailed tutorial for making things like that?
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jeffreycb2000" <jeffreycb@> wrote:
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Many many years ago there was a post to a web site that was researching how to recreate a plaza from 3 spherical panoramas from differing positions. The output model re-created the plaza space and had the photographic imagery attached to the various surfaces and objects within the model. This allowed the viewer to then walk through the model anywhere (within the limits of the panorama coverage).
                  >> > > Testing peoples memory - but would anyone know of the site or something similar.
                  >> > > I've a friend who is investigating from the laser scanning and pano overlay side and I thought this would be interesting to show them.
                  >> >
                  >> > I guess you talk about Greg Downings Notre Dam
                  >> > http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                  >> > http://www.vrmag.org/vartist/guest_artist/A_CONVERSATION_WITH_GREG_DOWNING_TRAVEL_PANORAMAS_3D_TECHNOLOGY_AND_HDRI.html
                  >> >
                  >> > Or the original Campanile movie, by Paul Debevec
                  >> > http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/Campanile/
                  >> >
                  >> > Hans
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >


                  --
                  Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
                • claudio
                  google for Dense 3D point cloud generation from multiple high-resolution spherical images . they presented the paper in italy some weeks ago hope it helps and
                  Message 8 of 26 , Nov 5, 2011
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                    google for "Dense 3D point cloud generation from multiple high-resolution spherical images".

                    they presented the paper in
                    italy some weeks ago

                    hope it helps and if is possible to replicate in some way this technology..







                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I found these DVDs if anyone is interested:
                    > http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category/58/Greg-Downing
                    >
                    > But it would be nice to have an updated tutorial, I guess today there are many advances in hardware and software which can help to make the same thing with less effort and in less time.
                    >
                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Wow ! this is incredible, and it's from 10 years ago (I think):
                    > > http://www.gregdowning.com/pimp/index.htm
                    > >
                    > > Also this has a really great transition between 3D and Photo:
                    > > http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                    > >
                    > > Does somebody know a detailed tutorial for making things like that?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jeffreycb2000" <jeffreycb@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Many many years ago there was a post to a web site that was researching how to recreate a plaza from 3 spherical panoramas from differing positions. The output model re-created the plaza space and had the photographic imagery attached to the various surfaces and objects within the model. This allowed the viewer to then walk through the model anywhere (within the limits of the panorama coverage).
                    > > > > Testing peoples memory - but would anyone know of the site or something similar.
                    > > > > I've a friend who is investigating from the laser scanning and pano overlay side and I thought this would be interesting to show them.
                    > > >
                    > > > I guess you talk about Greg Downings Notre Dam
                    > > > http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                    > > > http://www.vrmag.org/vartist/guest_artist/A_CONVERSATION_WITH_GREG_DOWNING_TRAVEL_PANORAMAS_3D_TECHNOLOGY_AND_HDRI.html
                    > > >
                    > > > Or the original Campanile movie, by Paul Debevec
                    > > > http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/Campanile/
                    > > >
                    > > > Hans
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • enridp
                    It looks very interesting, but I found only a very brief abstract :( Do you have the complete paper?
                    Message 9 of 26 , Nov 8, 2011
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                      It looks very interesting, but I found only a very brief abstract :(
                      Do you have the complete paper?

                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "claudio" <leggieriit@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > google for "Dense 3D point cloud generation from multiple high-resolution spherical images".
                      >
                      > they presented the paper in
                      > italy some weeks ago
                      >
                      > hope it helps and if is possible to replicate in some way this technology..
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I found these DVDs if anyone is interested:
                      > > http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category/58/Greg-Downing
                      > >
                      > > But it would be nice to have an updated tutorial, I guess today there are many advances in hardware and software which can help to make the same thing with less effort and in less time.
                      > >
                      > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Wow ! this is incredible, and it's from 10 years ago (I think):
                      > > > http://www.gregdowning.com/pimp/index.htm
                      > > >
                      > > > Also this has a really great transition between 3D and Photo:
                      > > > http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                      > > >
                      > > > Does somebody know a detailed tutorial for making things like that?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jeffreycb2000" <jeffreycb@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Many many years ago there was a post to a web site that was researching how to recreate a plaza from 3 spherical panoramas from differing positions. The output model re-created the plaza space and had the photographic imagery attached to the various surfaces and objects within the model. This allowed the viewer to then walk through the model anywhere (within the limits of the panorama coverage).
                      > > > > > Testing peoples memory - but would anyone know of the site or something similar.
                      > > > > > I've a friend who is investigating from the laser scanning and pano overlay side and I thought this would be interesting to show them.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I guess you talk about Greg Downings Notre Dam
                      > > > > http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                      > > > > http://www.vrmag.org/vartist/guest_artist/A_CONVERSATION_WITH_GREG_DOWNING_TRAVEL_PANORAMAS_3D_TECHNOLOGY_AND_HDRI.html
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Or the original Campanile movie, by Paul Debevec
                      > > > > http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/Campanile/
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hans
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • enridp
                      I was looking for a tutorial using tgi3D with panoramas but I couldn t find anything. I don t have too much experience in 3D, what is the workflow for making a
                      Message 10 of 26 , Nov 8, 2011
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                        I was looking for a tutorial using tgi3D with panoramas but I couldn't find anything.
                        I don't have too much experience in 3D, what is the workflow for making a 3D environment using a panorama?
                        Do we need to import the 6 cube faces and make a 3D cube in sketchup? why we need 3 panoramas and how can we work with them together? I'm a bit lost :(


                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > På Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:07:38 +0100, skrev enridp <enridp@...>:
                        >
                        > > I found these DVDs if anyone is interested:
                        > > http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category/58/Greg-Downing
                        > >
                        > > But it would be nice to have an updated tutorial, I guess today there are many advances in hardware and software which can help to make the same thing with less effort and in less time.
                        >
                        > Not really. Quite the opposite actually ;)
                        > Unless you're the owner of an Autodesk product like Max or Maya?
                        > Then you can get access to (buy?) ImageModeler, which is what Downing was using in those tuts.
                        > I've used ImageModeler for many years, but when it (Realviz) was bought by Autodesk things started to happen. For a while it was available freely, but now it is not possible to buy unless yo're already a paying customer, which I'm not.
                        > My version cannot use panos as source, but the Autodesk version I tested with that feature was extremely buggy and crashed all the time. At the same time they had removed some of the export formats! I never upgraded, and then the doors were closed.
                        > Photomodeler is another similar tool.
                        > Canoma is another oldtime favourite, swallowed by Adobe, and never seen again thereafter, unfortunately. It was very inspired by Debevec and that Campanile movie, and very fun to use :).
                        > My favourite today is SketchUp with the PhotoScan plugin from tgi3d.
                        > You'll find tons of tutorials on YouTube.
                        > Erik Leeman is a brand new SketchUp user (but long time 3D and pano experience), and here are some of his pano/cubefaces->3D pictures on Flickr:
                        > http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/6301352751/in/photostream/
                        > Looks very good :)
                        >
                        > All those mentioned above are polygonal/imagemapping photogrammetry tools, but there are also a type called point-cloud tools. Laser scanning and software/photo-based scanners typically end up with lots and lots of data, and usually also lots of holes.
                        >
                        >
                        > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@> wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >> Wow ! this is incredible, and it's from 10 years ago (I think):
                        > >> http://www.gregdowning.com/pimp/index.htm
                        > >>
                        > >> Also this has a really great transition between 3D and Photo:
                        > >> http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                        > >>
                        > >> Does somebody know a detailed tutorial for making things like that?
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jeffreycb2000" <jeffreycb@> wrote:
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > > Many many years ago there was a post to a web site that was researching how to recreate a plaza from 3 spherical panoramas from differing positions. The output model re-created the plaza space and had the photographic imagery attached to the various surfaces and objects within the model. This allowed the viewer to then walk through the model anywhere (within the limits of the panorama coverage).
                        > >> > > Testing peoples memory - but would anyone know of the site or something similar.
                        > >> > > I've a friend who is investigating from the laser scanning and pano overlay side and I thought this would be interesting to show them.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > I guess you talk about Greg Downings Notre Dam
                        > >> > http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                        > >> > http://www.vrmag.org/vartist/guest_artist/A_CONVERSATION_WITH_GREG_DOWNING_TRAVEL_PANORAMAS_3D_TECHNOLOGY_AND_HDRI.html
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Or the original Campanile movie, by Paul Debevec
                        > >> > http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/Campanile/
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Hans
                        > >> >
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
                        >
                      • Bjørn K Nilssen
                        ... Tgi3d Photoscan is not using panoramas/equrects as input, but normal rectilinear photos. Such rectilinear photos can be extracted from the pano in PTGui,
                        Message 11 of 26 , Nov 8, 2011
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                          På Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:49:20 +0100, skrev enridp <enridp@...>:

                          > I was looking for a tutorial using tgi3D with panoramas but I couldn't find anything.
                          > I don't have too much experience in 3D, what is the workflow for making a 3D environment using a panorama?
                          > Do we need to import the 6 cube faces and make a 3D cube in sketchup? why we need 3 panoramas and how can we work with them together? I'm a bit lost :(

                          Tgi3d Photoscan is not using panoramas/equrects as input, but normal rectilinear photos. Such rectilinear photos can be extracted from the pano in PTGui, DevalVR etc.
                          PhotoScan calibrates those photos, undistort them as needed, and exports them to SketchUp as a set of construction points from which you can build your model using the SU and PhotoScan tools.
                          The calibration can be done with at least 2 photos, shot from different locations, but showing at least 8 points that are visible in both photos.
                          It is usually better with more shots though.
                          You add a marker in one photo, and then add another marker at the same spot (in 3D space).
                          These two (or more if you have more than 2 photos where it is visible) markers are "paired", telling PhotoScan that they share the same 3D position.
                          Pretty much like adding control points manually in PTgui, just remember to never use any highlights or other similar points, because they move between photos shot from different positions.
                          When you have enough pairs (or sets) the calibration is done.
                          The program now knows the actual position of the 3D points, as well as the camera positions.
                          It can be improved by adding more points (and/or photos).
                          With good photos and a good reference measurement you could easily model a normal sized living room with a precision of less than 5mm from those photos.
                          You could also mark a 3D point as origin (0,0,0), set a known distance between 2 points to set the scale, and align the coordinate system by marking 2 pairs of 3D points.
                          Next is export to SU format (or other), and then you get each photo as backdrop, making it a lot easier to create the model.
                          As opposed to IMageModeler and PhotoModeler you are not limited to only model by snapping to the calibrated points.
                          PhotoScan has a very powerful tool that lets you draw a line or curve in one photo, and then view lock it.
                          When you move to the next photo that line/curve may appear to be floating in the air, but you can now drag each endpoint to the corresponding point in that photo.
                          Now it has been correctly placed in 3D space.
                          Because it was locked in the first photo it will not move at all from that viewpoint, and as it is now looking right in both (or more) photos it implies that its location is correct. If you used a pair of the imported construction points for snapping to with the line tool in SU it would of course already be located correctly by adding it in only one photo, because the endpoints were already correctly located.
                          This viewlocking may sound like a simple little tool, but it is actually immensely powerful, not only for photo modeling.
                          It allows you to model anything in the photos, regardless if you have any calibrated points on them or not.
                          You can't do that in ImageModeler or PhotoModeler...

                          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> På Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:07:38 +0100, skrev enridp <enridp@...>:
                          >>
                          >> > I found these DVDs if anyone is interested:
                          >> > http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category/58/Greg-Downing
                          >> >
                          >> > But it would be nice to have an updated tutorial, I guess today there are many advances in hardware and software which can help to make the same thing with less effort and in less time.
                          >>
                          >> Not really. Quite the opposite actually ;)
                          >> Unless you're the owner of an Autodesk product like Max or Maya?
                          >> Then you can get access to (buy?) ImageModeler, which is what Downing was using in those tuts.
                          >> I've used ImageModeler for many years, but when it (Realviz) was bought by Autodesk things started to happen. For a while it was available freely, but now it is not possible to buy unless yo're already a paying customer, which I'm not.
                          >> My version cannot use panos as source, but the Autodesk version I tested with that feature was extremely buggy and crashed all the time. At the same time they had removed some of the export formats! I never upgraded, and then the doors were closed.
                          >> Photomodeler is another similar tool.
                          >> Canoma is another oldtime favourite, swallowed by Adobe, and never seen again thereafter, unfortunately. It was very inspired by Debevec and that Campanile movie, and very fun to use :).
                          >> My favourite today is SketchUp with the PhotoScan plugin from tgi3d.
                          >> You'll find tons of tutorials on YouTube.
                          >> Erik Leeman is a brand new SketchUp user (but long time 3D and pano experience), and here are some of his pano/cubefaces->3D pictures on Flickr:
                          >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/6301352751/in/photostream/
                          >> Looks very good :)
                          >>
                          >> All those mentioned above are polygonal/imagemapping photogrammetry tools, but there are also a type called point-cloud tools. Laser scanning and software/photo-based scanners typically end up with lots and lots of data, and usually also lots of holes.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@> wrote:
                          >> >>
                          >> >> Wow ! this is incredible, and it's from 10 years ago (I think):
                          >> >> http://www.gregdowning.com/pimp/index.htm
                          >> >>
                          >> >> Also this has a really great transition between 3D and Photo:
                          >> >> http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                          >> >>
                          >> >> Does somebody know a detailed tutorial for making things like that?
                          >> >>
                          >> >>
                          >> >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                          >> >> >
                          >> >> >
                          >> >> >
                          >> >> > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jeffreycb2000" <jeffreycb@> wrote:
                          >> >> > >
                          >> >> > > Many many years ago there was a post to a web site that was researching how to recreate a plaza from 3 spherical panoramas from differing positions. The output model re-created the plaza space and had the photographic imagery attached to the various surfaces and objects within the model. This allowed the viewer to then walk through the model anywhere (within the limits of the panorama coverage).
                          >> >> > > Testing peoples memory - but would anyone know of the site or something similar.
                          >> >> > > I've a friend who is investigating from the laser scanning and pano overlay side and I thought this would be interesting to show them.
                          >> >> >
                          >> >> > I guess you talk about Greg Downings Notre Dam
                          >> >> > http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                          >> >> > http://www.vrmag.org/vartist/guest_artist/A_CONVERSATION_WITH_GREG_DOWNING_TRAVEL_PANORAMAS_3D_TECHNOLOGY_AND_HDRI.html
                          >> >> >
                          >> >> > Or the original Campanile movie, by Paul Debevec
                          >> >> > http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/Campanile/
                          >> >> >
                          >> >> > Hans

                          --
                          Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
                        • erik_leeman
                          I think there s no real need to extract additional rectilinear images from your equirects if you already have cubefaces from those panoramas, because those
                          Message 12 of 26 , Nov 8, 2011
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                            I think there's no real need to extract additional rectilinear images from your equirects if you already have cubefaces from those panoramas, because those cubefaces ARE 90 degree by 90 degree rectilinear 'photos'. I just used those.

                            One single 360x180 degree panorama will not give you (enough) depth information to reconstruct a scene in 3D space, so you will need at least two of them, showing the same scene from different camera standponts. Even then you will get 'blind' spots (details not visible in both panoramas) in many cases, so you will need extra panoramas to fill in those blind spots. Often three will do I guess, but carefully planning your camera standpoints will help.

                            SketchUp's own photomatching module will do very nicely for scenes that contain simple geometric shapes with clearly visible 90 degree (!) angles, but dimensional accuracy will (at best) be rather limited. For everything else you'll need a more advanced tool, and so far (I've only just started using it) Tgi3D SU Photoscan seems to deliver what its makers promise. It's a shame of course that this performance comes with a $1000.-- price tag : (

                            Cheers!

                            Erik Leeman

                            <http://www.erikleeman.com/> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>

                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
                            > Tgi3d Photoscan is not using panoramas/equrects as input, but normal
                            > rectilinear photos. Such rectilinear photos can be extracted from
                            > the pano in PTGui, DevalVR etc.
                            > ...snip...
                          • erik_leeman
                            Not a 3D scene reconstructed from panos, but still an example to show what kind of complicated shapes you can model from photos using Tgi3D Photoscan:
                            Message 13 of 26 , Nov 8, 2011
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                              Not a 3D scene reconstructed from panos, but still an example to show what kind of complicated shapes you can model from photos using Tgi3D Photoscan:
                              <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/6290893091/in/photostream/>
                              Please note that this example by no means represents what can be done by a seasoned expert user of both SketchUp and Tgi3D!

                              Cheers!

                              Erik Leeman

                              <http://www.erikleeman.com/> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>


                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "erik_leeman" wrote:
                            • Bjørn K Nilssen
                              ... I haven t really done much testing from cube faces, mainly because I m afraid that the precision may suffer. When I view it in PTgui it changes quite a lot
                              Message 14 of 26 , Nov 8, 2011
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                                På Tue, 08 Nov 2011 19:04:54 +0100, skrev erik_leeman <erik.leeman@...>:

                                > I think there's no real need to extract additional rectilinear images from your equirects if you already have cubefaces from those panoramas, because those cubefaces ARE 90 degree by 90 degree rectilinear 'photos'. I just used those.

                                I haven't really done much testing from cube faces, mainly because I'm afraid that the precision may suffer. When I view it in PTgui it changes quite a lot if some of the parameters are changed even slightly. But if you use exactly the same parameters for all panos I guess it should work just fine. I mainly use a zoom/fisheye lens for panos, that can't be fixed at exactly the right zoom, hence I have to recalibrate it for every set of shots.
                                For photogrammetry I usually shoot with a 14mm (FF eqv) rectilinear lens, but I have even used quite bad phone-photos (not without some struggle ;).

                                > One single 360x180 degree panorama will not give you (enough) depth information to reconstruct a scene in 3D space, so you will need at least two of them, showing the same scene from different camera standponts. Even then you will get 'blind' spots (details not visible in both panoramas) in many cases, so you will need extra panoramas to fill in those blind spots. Often three will do I guess, but carefully planning your camera standpoints will help.

                                In theory it is enough with 2, but you usually get better results with more shots.
                                It works by triangulation, where vectors between eye(s) and 2D points are calculated into 3D points by calculating where those vectors cross each other in 3D space.
                                In addition to good planning it is actually it is actually a good idea to clutter the scene instead of cleaning it up, because you often end up with problems finding good spots to mark. It also helps to have the points spread as wide as possible in 3D space. Marking all your points on a flat wall or floor will not work very well..

                                > SketchUp's own photomatching module will do very nicely for scenes that contain simple geometric shapes with clearly visible 90 degree (!) angles, but dimensional accuracy will (at best) be rather limited. For everything else you'll need a more advanced tool, and so far (I've only just started using it) Tgi3D SU Photoscan seems to deliver what its makers promise. It's a shame of course that this performance comes with a $1000.-- price tag : (

                                It is quite expensive, but so far I have spent at least $5000 on ImageModeler, PhotoModeler and Canoma, which all cost more than PhotoScan ;)
                                And they are all less powerful and precise IMO...

                                > Cheers!
                                >
                                > Erik Leeman
                                >
                                > <http://www.erikleeman.com/> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>
                                >
                                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
                                >> Tgi3d Photoscan is not using panoramas/equrects as input, but normal
                                >> rectilinear photos. Such rectilinear photos can be extracted from
                                >> the pano in PTGui, DevalVR etc.
                                >> ...snip...
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >


                                --
                                Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
                              • enridp
                                Thanks for the explanation Bjorn ! I will try it. Do you have an example of your work (I mean, a 3D scene created with panoramas)?
                                Message 15 of 26 , Nov 9, 2011
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                                  Thanks for the explanation Bjorn !
                                  I will try it. Do you have an example of your work (I mean, a 3D scene created with panoramas)?


                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > På Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:49:20 +0100, skrev enridp <enridp@...>:
                                  >
                                  > > I was looking for a tutorial using tgi3D with panoramas but I couldn't find anything.
                                  > > I don't have too much experience in 3D, what is the workflow for making a 3D environment using a panorama?
                                  > > Do we need to import the 6 cube faces and make a 3D cube in sketchup? why we need 3 panoramas and how can we work with them together? I'm a bit lost :(
                                  >
                                  > Tgi3d Photoscan is not using panoramas/equrects as input, but normal rectilinear photos. Such rectilinear photos can be extracted from the pano in PTGui, DevalVR etc.
                                  > PhotoScan calibrates those photos, undistort them as needed, and exports them to SketchUp as a set of construction points from which you can build your model using the SU and PhotoScan tools.
                                  > The calibration can be done with at least 2 photos, shot from different locations, but showing at least 8 points that are visible in both photos.
                                  > It is usually better with more shots though.
                                  > You add a marker in one photo, and then add another marker at the same spot (in 3D space).
                                  > These two (or more if you have more than 2 photos where it is visible) markers are "paired", telling PhotoScan that they share the same 3D position.
                                  > Pretty much like adding control points manually in PTgui, just remember to never use any highlights or other similar points, because they move between photos shot from different positions.
                                  > When you have enough pairs (or sets) the calibration is done.
                                  > The program now knows the actual position of the 3D points, as well as the camera positions.
                                  > It can be improved by adding more points (and/or photos).
                                  > With good photos and a good reference measurement you could easily model a normal sized living room with a precision of less than 5mm from those photos.
                                  > You could also mark a 3D point as origin (0,0,0), set a known distance between 2 points to set the scale, and align the coordinate system by marking 2 pairs of 3D points.
                                  > Next is export to SU format (or other), and then you get each photo as backdrop, making it a lot easier to create the model.
                                  > As opposed to IMageModeler and PhotoModeler you are not limited to only model by snapping to the calibrated points.
                                  > PhotoScan has a very powerful tool that lets you draw a line or curve in one photo, and then view lock it.
                                  > When you move to the next photo that line/curve may appear to be floating in the air, but you can now drag each endpoint to the corresponding point in that photo.
                                  > Now it has been correctly placed in 3D space.
                                  > Because it was locked in the first photo it will not move at all from that viewpoint, and as it is now looking right in both (or more) photos it implies that its location is correct. If you used a pair of the imported construction points for snapping to with the line tool in SU it would of course already be located correctly by adding it in only one photo, because the endpoints were already correctly located.
                                  > This viewlocking may sound like a simple little tool, but it is actually immensely powerful, not only for photo modeling.
                                  > It allows you to model anything in the photos, regardless if you have any calibrated points on them or not.
                                  > You can't do that in ImageModeler or PhotoModeler...
                                  >
                                  > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@> wrote:
                                  > >>
                                  > >> På Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:07:38 +0100, skrev enridp <enridp@>:
                                  > >>
                                  > >> > I found these DVDs if anyone is interested:
                                  > >> > http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category/58/Greg-Downing
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > But it would be nice to have an updated tutorial, I guess today there are many advances in hardware and software which can help to make the same thing with less effort and in less time.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Not really. Quite the opposite actually ;)
                                  > >> Unless you're the owner of an Autodesk product like Max or Maya?
                                  > >> Then you can get access to (buy?) ImageModeler, which is what Downing was using in those tuts.
                                  > >> I've used ImageModeler for many years, but when it (Realviz) was bought by Autodesk things started to happen. For a while it was available freely, but now it is not possible to buy unless yo're already a paying customer, which I'm not.
                                  > >> My version cannot use panos as source, but the Autodesk version I tested with that feature was extremely buggy and crashed all the time. At the same time they had removed some of the export formats! I never upgraded, and then the doors were closed.
                                  > >> Photomodeler is another similar tool.
                                  > >> Canoma is another oldtime favourite, swallowed by Adobe, and never seen again thereafter, unfortunately. It was very inspired by Debevec and that Campanile movie, and very fun to use :).
                                  > >> My favourite today is SketchUp with the PhotoScan plugin from tgi3d.
                                  > >> You'll find tons of tutorials on YouTube.
                                  > >> Erik Leeman is a brand new SketchUp user (but long time 3D and pano experience), and here are some of his pano/cubefaces->3D pictures on Flickr:
                                  > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/6301352751/in/photostream/
                                  > >> Looks very good :)
                                  > >>
                                  > >> All those mentioned above are polygonal/imagemapping photogrammetry tools, but there are also a type called point-cloud tools. Laser scanning and software/photo-based scanners typically end up with lots and lots of data, and usually also lots of holes.
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@> wrote:
                                  > >> >>
                                  > >> >> Wow ! this is incredible, and it's from 10 years ago (I think):
                                  > >> >> http://www.gregdowning.com/pimp/index.htm
                                  > >> >>
                                  > >> >> Also this has a really great transition between 3D and Photo:
                                  > >> >> http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                                  > >> >>
                                  > >> >> Does somebody know a detailed tutorial for making things like that?
                                  > >> >>
                                  > >> >>
                                  > >> >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                                  > >> >> >
                                  > >> >> >
                                  > >> >> >
                                  > >> >> > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jeffreycb2000" <jeffreycb@> wrote:
                                  > >> >> > >
                                  > >> >> > > Many many years ago there was a post to a web site that was researching how to recreate a plaza from 3 spherical panoramas from differing positions. The output model re-created the plaza space and had the photographic imagery attached to the various surfaces and objects within the model. This allowed the viewer to then walk through the model anywhere (within the limits of the panorama coverage).
                                  > >> >> > > Testing peoples memory - but would anyone know of the site or something similar.
                                  > >> >> > > I've a friend who is investigating from the laser scanning and pano overlay side and I thought this would be interesting to show them.
                                  > >> >> >
                                  > >> >> > I guess you talk about Greg Downings Notre Dam
                                  > >> >> > http://www.gregdowning.com/3dqtvr/index.html
                                  > >> >> > http://www.vrmag.org/vartist/guest_artist/A_CONVERSATION_WITH_GREG_DOWNING_TRAVEL_PANORAMAS_3D_TECHNOLOGY_AND_HDRI.html
                                  > >> >> >
                                  > >> >> > Or the original Campanile movie, by Paul Debevec
                                  > >> >> > http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/Campanile/
                                  > >> >> >
                                  > >> >> > Hans
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
                                  >
                                • Bjørn K Nilssen
                                  ... I ve never made a 3D scene from panoramas. But I think I posted a link here to a small info page about photogrammetry and PhotoScan I put together a little
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Nov 9, 2011
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                                    På Wed, 09 Nov 2011 19:26:28 +0100, skrev enridp <enridp@...>:

                                    > Thanks for the explanation Bjorn !
                                    > I will try it. Do you have an example of your work (I mean, a 3D scene created with panoramas)?

                                    I've never made a 3D scene from panoramas.
                                    But I think I posted a link here to a small info page about photogrammetry and PhotoScan I put together a little while ago.
                                    Here it is again: http://bknilssen.no/X/Photogrammetry


                                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> På Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:49:20 +0100, skrev enridp <enridp@...>:
                                    >>
                                    >> > I was looking for a tutorial using tgi3D with panoramas but I couldn't find anything.
                                    >> > I don't have too much experience in 3D, what is the workflow for making a 3D environment using a panorama?
                                    >> > Do we need to import the 6 cube faces and make a 3D cube in sketchup? why we need 3 panoramas and how can we work with them together? I'm a bit lost :(
                                    >>
                                    >> Tgi3d Photoscan is not using panoramas/equrects as input, but normal rectilinear photos. Such rectilinear photos can be extracted from the pano in PTGui, DevalVR etc.
                                    >> PhotoScan calibrates those photos, undistort them as needed, and exports them to SketchUp as a set of construction points from which you can build your model using the SU and PhotoScan tools.
                                    >> The calibration can be done with at least 2 photos, shot from different locations, but showing at least 8 points that are visible in both photos.
                                    >> It is usually better with more shots though.
                                    >> You add a marker in one photo, and then add another marker at the same spot (in 3D space).
                                    >> These two (or more if you have more than 2 photos where it is visible) markers are "paired", telling PhotoScan that they share the same 3D position.
                                    >> Pretty much like adding control points manually in PTgui, just remember to never use any highlights or other similar points, because they move between photos shot from different positions.
                                    >> When you have enough pairs (or sets) the calibration is done.
                                    >> The program now knows the actual position of the 3D points, as well as the camera positions.
                                    >> It can be improved by adding more points (and/or photos).
                                    >> With good photos and a good reference measurement you could easily model a normal sized living room with a precision of less than 5mm from those photos.
                                    >> You could also mark a 3D point as origin (0,0,0), set a known distance between 2 points to set the scale, and align the coordinate system by marking 2 pairs of 3D points.
                                    >> Next is export to SU format (or other), and then you get each photo as backdrop, making it a lot easier to create the model.
                                    >> As opposed to IMageModeler and PhotoModeler you are not limited to only model by snapping to the calibrated points.
                                    >> PhotoScan has a very powerful tool that lets you draw a line or curve in one photo, and then view lock it.
                                    >> When you move to the next photo that line/curve may appear to be floating in the air, but you can now drag each endpoint to the corresponding point in that photo.
                                    >> Now it has been correctly placed in 3D space.
                                    >> Because it was locked in the first photo it will not move at all from that viewpoint, and as it is now looking right in both (or more) photos it implies that its location is correct. If you used a pair of the imported construction points for snapping to with the line tool in SU it would of course already be located correctly by adding it in only one photo, because the endpoints were already correctly located.
                                    >> This viewlocking may sound like a simple little tool, but it is actually immensely powerful, not only for photo modeling.
                                    >> It allows you to model anything in the photos, regardless if you have any calibrated points on them or not.
                                    >> You can't do that in ImageModeler or PhotoModeler...
                                    >>
                                    >> > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@> wrote:
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> På Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:07:38 +0100, skrev enridp <enridp@>:
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> > I found these DVDs if anyone is interested:
                                    >> >> > http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category/58/Greg-Downing
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > But it would be nice to have an updated tutorial, I guess today there are many advances in hardware and software which can help to make the same thing with less effort and in less time.
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> Not really. Quite the opposite actually ;)
                                    >> >> Unless you're the owner of an Autodesk product like Max or Maya?
                                    >> >> Then you can get access to (buy?) ImageModeler, which is what Downing was using in those tuts.
                                    >> >> I've used ImageModeler for many years, but when it (Realviz) was bought by Autodesk things started to happen. For a while it was available freely, but now it is not possible to buy unless yo're already a paying customer, which I'm not.
                                    >> >> My version cannot use panos as source, but the Autodesk version I tested with that feature was extremely buggy and crashed all the time. At the same time they had removed some of the export formats! I never upgraded, and then the doors were closed.
                                    >> >> Photomodeler is another similar tool.
                                    >> >> Canoma is another oldtime favourite, swallowed by Adobe, and never seen again thereafter, unfortunately. It was very inspired by Debevec and that Campanile movie, and very fun to use :).
                                    >> >> My favourite today is SketchUp with the PhotoScan plugin from tgi3d.
                                    >> >> You'll find tons of tutorials on YouTube.
                                    >> >> Erik Leeman is a brand new SketchUp user (but long time 3D and pano experience), and here are some of his pano/cubefaces->3D pictures on Flickr:
                                    >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/6301352751/in/photostream/
                                    >> >> Looks very good :)
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> All those mentioned above are polygonal/imagemapping photogrammetry tools, but there are also a type called point-cloud tools. Laser scanning and software/photo-based scanners typically end up with lots and lots of data, and usually also lots of holes.
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>


                                    --
                                    Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
                                  • Bjørn K Nilssen
                                    ... For info on SketchUp/photomodeling you should also look at the magazine http://sketchucation.com/catchup/ I believe issue #2 and #3 have a lot about
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Nov 9, 2011
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                                      På Wed, 09 Nov 2011 19:26:28 +0100, skrev enridp <enridp@...>:

                                      > Thanks for the explanation Bjorn !
                                      > I will try it. Do you have an example of your work (I mean, a 3D scene created with panoramas)?

                                      For info on SketchUp/photomodeling you should also look at the magazine http://sketchucation.com/catchup/
                                      I believe issue #2 and #3 have a lot about photogrammetry.
                                      There is also a very nice forum and lots of plugins: http://sketchucation.com/

                                      --
                                      Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
                                    • enridp
                                      Thanks Bjorn, that s very useful !
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Nov 10, 2011
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                                        Thanks Bjorn, that's very useful !


                                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > På Wed, 09 Nov 2011 19:26:28 +0100, skrev enridp <enridp@...>:
                                        >
                                        > > Thanks for the explanation Bjorn !
                                        > > I will try it. Do you have an example of your work (I mean, a 3D scene created with panoramas)?
                                        >
                                        > For info on SketchUp/photomodeling you should also look at the magazine http://sketchucation.com/catchup/
                                        > I believe issue #2 and #3 have a lot about photogrammetry.
                                        > There is also a very nice forum and lots of plugins: http://sketchucation.com/
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Bjørn K Nilssen - bk@... - 3D and panoramas
                                        >
                                      • web@drmattnolan.org
                                        For some reason I could not log into the forum for several months last winter, so I missed this post; I just skimmed through it and thought to mention a few
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Feb 24, 2012
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                                          For some reason I could not log into the forum for several months last winter, so I missed this post; I just skimmed through it and thought to mention a few experiences with Photomodeler Scanner.

                                          It is really slick software. It's primary focus has been close range photogrammetry, which is in a sense the opposite of panoramic photographic in that you are trying to maximize parallax rather than minimize it, through use of convergent photographic angles (images that points towards a single spot) rather than divergent (images that point from a single spot). Their 'Scanner' module uses near parallel photography, like vertical photos from airplanes, where the nadir vectors are close to parallel (so neither convergent and divergent). It is this module that I think would be of most interest to panoramic photographers, in particular for making mosaics of long murals, or reconstructing 3D scenes. I havent tried it with stitched panoramas, but I suspect it would work much better using the unstitched images, but overall it work best with a different style of shooting to get small angle (near parallel) images. The really nice thing about this method is that you can produce an orthophoto, which is like looking straight at the entire image, such that you can make accurate measurements of it. To do this means that the photos have been used to make a topographic model, so you get that as a side benefit, depending on your goal. I've only been using it for a few months, but you can see some examples of what I've been able to do with a D700 from an airplane (with no additional gps or imu info) here: http://www.drmattnolan.org/photography/2011/web/examples.htm . All of those examples took only a few minutes to hours each, with no prior experience. The software is not cheap compared to PTGui, but it is cheap compared to high end photogrammetric software, which I have found has a huge learning curve in comparison; anyone interested from moving from artistic to industrial photography could easily pay off the software in a few jobs I would think utilizing its quantitative products (map making, volume change of construction projects, orthophotos, mapping pipes in buildings, etc). It's also cheap compared to buying a laser scanner, and my tests have shown this is just as accurate with a lot less hassle; unless you need tree canopy structure or similar, I dont see a huge reason to justify the expense of lidar. They also have a nice video tutorial library and very friendly tech support. I had used Canoma 10 years ago, and I'd say this is just as easy to use but yields a more versatile and rigorous product for the same amount of work. If I were going to try to make a model of the inside of a church or an exterior plaza, this is what I would try first (though I think such large projects would take a fair amount of trial and error, and I'd probably do the processing onsite to make sure it was working; it will also have trouble with people moving through the scene, so a lot of masking would be needed).

                                          Cheers,
                                          Matt




                                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jeffreycb2000" <jeffreycb@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Many many years ago there was a post to a web site that was researching how to recreate a plaza from 3 spherical panoramas from differing positions. The output model re-created the plaza space and had the photographic imagery attached to the various surfaces and objects within the model. This allowed the viewer to then walk through the model anywhere (within the limits of the panorama coverage).
                                          > Testing peoples memory - but would anyone know of the site or something similar.
                                          > I've a friend who is investigating from the laser scanning and pano overlay side and I thought this would be interesting to show them.
                                          > Thanks
                                          > Jeffrey
                                          >
                                        • Erik Krause
                                          ... Nice you brought this up again. The current german magazine ct has an article about computer usage in archeology, where they mention the use of
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Feb 24, 2012
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                                            Am 24.02.2012 19:10, schrieb web@...:
                                            > For some reason I could not log into the forum for several months
                                            > last winter, so I missed this post;

                                            Nice you brought this up again. The current german magazine ct has an
                                            article about computer usage in archeology, where they mention the use
                                            of photogrammetry software: http://www.heise.de/ct/inhalt/2012/05/80/

                                            Especially the open source combo Bundler/PMVS2 was reported to give very
                                            good results: http://grail.cs.washington.edu/software/pmvs/

                                            --
                                            Erik Krause
                                            http://www.erik-krause.de
                                          • erik_leeman
                                            A perhaps little bit easier to use Structure From Motion package that s free for personal, non-profit or research, named VisualSFM by Changchang Wu can be
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Feb 24, 2012
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                                              A perhaps little bit easier to use 'Structure From Motion' package that's free for personal, non-profit or research, named 'VisualSFM' by Changchang Wu can be found here:
                                              <http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/ccwu/vsfm/>

                                              An introductory video by Eugene Liscio:
                                              <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax6gajFE-qw>
                                              A written tutorial by Eugene Liscio:
                                              <http://www.iafsm.org/resources/Opensourcetoolspart3.pdf>

                                              There's also the free SFMToolkit3 by Henri Astre
                                              <http://www.visual-experiments.com/demos/sfmtoolkit/>

                                              I have to say that in direct comparison tests I did with these packages, they performed not nearly as good as AgiSoft's (commercial) PhotoScan, but other, more knowledgeable users may have come to different results. I haven't yet tried other commercial SFM tools like PhotoModeler Scanner, partly because of the impressive results I got with Agisoft.

                                              As an added bonus AgiSoft PhotoScan is MUCH easier to use too, but, like PhotoModeler Scanner, the Professional version is (far too) expensive for non-profit applications. However they also offer a 'light' version for $179,- that I can wholeheartedly recommend to those who don't really need the functionality of the full version.
                                              The Agisoft products can be found here:
                                              <http://www.agisoft.ru/products>

                                              Screenshots of some of my experiments with these programs can be found in my Flickr stream:
                                              <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>

                                              Cheers!

                                              Erik Leeman
                                              <http://www.erikleeman.com>

                                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause wrote:
                                              > Nice you brought this up again. The current german magazine ct has an
                                              > article about computer usage in archeology, where they mention the
                                              > use of photogrammetry software: http://www.heise.de/ct/inhalt/2012/05
                                              > /80/
                                              >
                                              > Especially the open source combo Bundler/PMVS2 was reported to give
                                              > very good results: http://grail.cs.washington.edu/software/pmvs/
                                              >
                                              > --
                                              > Erik Krause
                                              > http://www.erik-krause.de
                                            • web@drmattnolan.org
                                              Thanks for the tip on Agisoft Photoscan. I tried the demo with a few blocks of air photos and it performed great, even easier to use than Photomodeler (which
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Feb 25, 2012
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                                                Thanks for the tip on Agisoft Photoscan. I tried the demo with a few blocks of air photos and it performed great, even easier to use than Photomodeler (which is pretty darn easy) and preliminary visual checks gave great results. They offer a huge academic discount, and the exported results were on par with the other packages I've tried. It will take more work to determine which is more accurate, but what I really like about Agisoft is that it does a field lens calibration with every dataset, which is important I think for low-end photogrammetry setups like mine (just regular DSLRs) which dont have the internal stability of high-end photogrammetric cameras, plus it claims to correct non-radial distortions. The automation seems to come at the price of flexibility and some abilities to aid solutions that fail automation, but for well behaved input data I think this a great tool to have. Plus it maxes out all CPU/RAM that you allow it to, and works really fast. It's conceivable I could get off the plane with a nearly-finished product, which is great for all kinds of reasons.
                                                Thanks!
                                                Matt

                                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "erik_leeman" <erik.leeman@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > A perhaps little bit easier to use 'Structure From Motion' package that's free for personal, non-profit or research, named 'VisualSFM' by Changchang Wu can be found here:
                                                > <http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/ccwu/vsfm/>
                                                >
                                                > An introductory video by Eugene Liscio:
                                                > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax6gajFE-qw>
                                                > A written tutorial by Eugene Liscio:
                                                > <http://www.iafsm.org/resources/Opensourcetoolspart3.pdf>
                                                >
                                                > There's also the free SFMToolkit3 by Henri Astre
                                                > <http://www.visual-experiments.com/demos/sfmtoolkit/>
                                                >
                                                > I have to say that in direct comparison tests I did with these packages, they performed not nearly as good as AgiSoft's (commercial) PhotoScan, but other, more knowledgeable users may have come to different results. I haven't yet tried other commercial SFM tools like PhotoModeler Scanner, partly because of the impressive results I got with Agisoft.
                                                >
                                                > As an added bonus AgiSoft PhotoScan is MUCH easier to use too, but, like PhotoModeler Scanner, the Professional version is (far too) expensive for non-profit applications. However they also offer a 'light' version for $179,- that I can wholeheartedly recommend to those who don't really need the functionality of the full version.
                                                > The Agisoft products can be found here:
                                                > <http://www.agisoft.ru/products>
                                                >
                                                > Screenshots of some of my experiments with these programs can be found in my Flickr stream:
                                                > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/>
                                                >
                                                > Cheers!
                                                >
                                                > Erik Leeman
                                                > <http://www.erikleeman.com>
                                                >
                                                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause wrote:
                                                > > Nice you brought this up again. The current german magazine ct has an
                                                > > article about computer usage in archeology, where they mention the
                                                > > use of photogrammetry software: http://www.heise.de/ct/inhalt/2012/05
                                                > > /80/
                                                > >
                                                > > Especially the open source combo Bundler/PMVS2 was reported to give
                                                > > very good results: http://grail.cs.washington.edu/software/pmvs/
                                                > >
                                                > > --
                                                > > Erik Krause
                                                > > http://www.erik-krause.de
                                                >
                                              • erik_leeman
                                                My pleasure, glad you like it : ) I think in time for interactive purposes this technology is likely to replace spherical panoramas as we know them today. It
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Feb 25, 2012
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                                                  My pleasure, glad you like it : )

                                                  I think in time for interactive purposes this technology is likely to replace spherical panoramas as we know them today.
                                                  It leans VERY hard on reasonably contemporary hardware though, 24GB of RAM and a pretty capable CPU+GPU hardly cut it if you want to capture a lot of detail. For extended scenes we're back to processing times of 10 hours and more, like we were used to with PTGui not so long ago.
                                                  But no doubt that will change quickly enough.

                                                  Cheers!

                                                  Erik Leeman

                                                  <http://www.flickr.com/photos/erik-nl/> <http://www.erikleeman.com>

                                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks for the tip on Agisoft Photoscan.
                                                  ...snip...
                                                  > Matt
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