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grandfather's slides

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  • Jeffrey Martin
    I have taken possession of my grandfather s slides. Around 10,000 of them, I guess. Spanning 4 decades or so. Images from many different countries. Mostly
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 25, 2011
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      I have taken possession of my grandfather's slides. Around 10,000 of them, I guess. Spanning 4 decades or so. Images from many different countries. Mostly kodachrome. Shot with a leica rangefinder camera. Stored in a cabinet in a basement all this time, under very good climate control.

      I've come to the following conclusions:

      1) I don't trust anyone else in the family to store these :-O Someone might stick them in a hot attic or something.
      2) Commercial scanning services cost too much for an inferior resultt.
      3) Scanning all these "the right way" professionally will be WAY too expensive.
      4) Scanning them at home "the right way" will take too long. I don't have _years_ of my life to devote to this, not yet anyway.

      Therefore I think I need to batch scan them at home. I have found two possibilities:
      1) http://www.filmscanner.info/en/ReflectaDigitDia5000.html the Reflecta digit dia 5000
      2) nikon coolscan 5000 with a slide feeder http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-SF-210-Slide-Feeder-Sf-210/dp/B0001AVVRA

      I will use either silverfast or vuescan software. After bulk scanning everything I'll be able to go back and rescan any masterpieces individually as needed.

      Have I made any incorrect assumptions above? Can anyone advise something I might have missed? I guess that even scanning them in bulk like this might take a couple of years of my spare time, but I'm willing to do that.

      Oh, and yes, I hope to start a blog with all these images ;)
    • Wim Koornneef
      Hello Jeffrey, It is really nice to read that your grandfather shot so many slides with good equipment. Even after decades the slides are still fine and that
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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        Hello Jeffrey,

        It is really nice to read that your grandfather shot so many slides with
        good equipment.
        Even after decades the slides are still fine and that brings me to this
        tought.
        Can you wait with processing until software is much smarter then it is now ?

        I understand that you like to process and view them right now but if you can
        wait untill the batch process can be done by really smart software that is
        able to recognize the content and can can correct the images just the way
        you would do it yourself then you will save a lot of your spare time by just
        waiting and doing nothing right now.

        High quailty scanning of the slides -without processing- can be done now
        while the processing can be done (much) later when software is better and
        smarter.
        Btw, I am not talking about an A.I. but something that comes close to it....

        Is that an option for you ?

        Best,
        Wim

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      • Wim Koornneef
        ... PS, just a second thought. Scanning of slides the old fashion way can take a lot of time, I guess a workaround for this could be to shoot a series of
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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          Wim Koornneef wrote:
          > ....High quailty scanning of the slides -without processing- can be done
          > now....

          PS, just a second thought.

          Scanning of slides the old fashion way can take a lot of time, I guess a
          workaround for this could be to shoot a series of hi-res HDR images saved as
          RAW of each slide (*), this would take less then a second to shoot and
          including handling of the slides you could shoot 10 slides per minute, so if
          you work like a brainless robot you could do the job within a couple of days
          ;-)

          The 30.000 RAWs + backups will all fit on a couple of large harddisks so
          costs of storage is no issue.

          (*) I have never used a camera as replacement for a scanner but I can
          imagine that with a 5DMK2 wired to a computer and some other hardware
          (light, slide feeder, etc) this must be possible.

          Wim


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        • Christian Bloch
          Hi Jeffrey, I wholeheartedly agree with Wim. Whack together an archival-grade vault, can t be harder than modding a PC case. Some humidity and temperature
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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            Hi Jeffrey,

            I wholeheartedly agree with Wim.

            Whack together an archival-grade vault, can't be harder than modding a PC case. Some humidity and temperature controller. And your slides will outlive any digital image file you could make today. Not only bit rod, but also in terms of quality processing. Wait 5 or 8 years. Then it will sound silly to you to edit with the crappy tools we have today. I still believe in the HDR revolution, and your slides may have so much latitude that you'd have to be concerned to A) scan all it all, and B) preserve it during postprocessing. You'd have to tonemap it today, irreversibly squeeze and push to fit in through our current 8-bit pipelines. In 3 years you won't have to do this anymore, and in 5 you will just shake your head about how badly we treated our image data these days. And when you wait 8, Wim's AI will be happy to do it for you. But don't wait 13 years, because then you will actually have to discuss with the AI and convince it or bribe it for a favor. ;)

            Blochi
          • hdrv
            ... It works fast if the slides are clean or you ll have to spend some time to erase dust by hand with psd. Scanners have pretty good automatic cleaning
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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              Le 26 sept. 11 à 12:46, Wim Koornneef a écrit :

              > (*) I have never used a camera as replacement for a scanner but I can
              > imagine that with a 5DMK2 wired to a computer and some other hardware
              > (light, slide feeder, etc) this must be possible.

              It works fast if the slides are clean or you'll have to spend some
              time to erase dust " by hand " with psd.
              Scanners have pretty good automatic cleaning softwares (ice 3 et
              al...). but in the early 2000 I used ice with an ls4000 Nikon and alas
              it was not operating on Kodachrome (this might have change since).
              This film is quite different from others.
              Add to that, the automatic slide feeder is not 100% safe with the
              carton mount of this slides.

              So I would go for a fast duplicating system dslr+macro lens+lightbox
              like Wim said and a manual scanning for the top ten images (which lets
              1.000 of them ;-)
              Good luck Jeffrey,



              Romuald
            • rcgillespie
              I use an Epson V700 and their software. The scanner works great with slides. The slide holder is weak, but doable. You can get a better holder and
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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                I use an Epson V700 and their software. The scanner works great with
                slides.
                The slide holder is weak, but doable. You can get a better holder and
                anti-newton ring glass.
                Thinking about buying the new SilverFast 8. I demoed 6 and it worked
                well especially with Kodachrome slides.

                I recently bid a job for scanning 50,000 slides for a Doctor.
                In my research I read a lot of negative comments about auto scanners.
                Most of the comments
                were about them jamming during the scanning process because the
                cardboard holder came be slightly
                different sizes.

                If I had gotten the job, I would have bought SilverFast and another
                Epson scanner, the 750, and extra slide holders.
              • prague
                LOL I love this list :) Yes, I can certainly wait 8 years until our robot overlords reach a prepubescent phase. In some ways this is the best answer - worrying
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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                  LOL

                  I love this list :)

                  Yes, I can certainly wait 8 years until our robot overlords reach a prepubescent phase. In some ways this is the best answer - worrying about it later is just very appealing to me :)

                  Only question is, how to "whack together an archival-grade vault" ? I would guess that this might not be quite as simple as Blochi suggests.

                  For now the slides have been moved to self storage in a facility, in a large warehouse that is climate-controlled. with autumn and winter approaching I think all is ok, but I should move them into a better place relatively soon I think.

                  My only question - will such software really continue evolving? We won't run out of slides to scan in the next years? I mean, the technology of scanning slides isn't exactly at the forefront of consumer demand, is it.



                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bloch <Blochi@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Jeffrey,
                  >
                  > I wholeheartedly agree with Wim.
                  >
                  > Whack together an archival-grade vault, can't be harder than modding a PC case. Some humidity and temperature controller. And your slides will outlive any digital image file you could make today. Not only bit rod, but also in terms of quality processing. Wait 5 or 8 years. Then it will sound silly to you to edit with the crappy tools we have today. I still believe in the HDR revolution, and your slides may have so much latitude that you'd have to be concerned to A) scan all it all, and B) preserve it during postprocessing. You'd have to tonemap it today, irreversibly squeeze and push to fit in through our current 8-bit pipelines. In 3 years you won't have to do this anymore, and in 5 you will just shake your head about how badly we treated our image data these days. And when you wait 8, Wim's AI will be happy to do it for you. But don't wait 13 years, because then you will actually have to discuss with the AI and convince it or bribe it for a favor. ;)
                  >
                  > Blochi
                  >
                • Keith Davison
                  ... It s not just software. I m pretty sure Nikon no longer make consumer level film scanners any more apart from possibly the Coolscan 9000. The Coolscans
                  Message 8 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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                    > My only question - will such software really continue evolving? We won't
                    > run out of slides to scan in the next years? I mean, the technology of
                    > scanning slides isn't exactly at the forefront of consumer demand, is it.

                    It's not just software.

                    I'm pretty sure Nikon no longer make consumer level film scanners any more apart from
                    possibly the Coolscan 9000. The Coolscans were some of the best scanners around and
                    they were not cheap, demand must have really fallen off if their range has dwindled to one
                    model (if indeed they still make that one!).

                    KeithD
                  • Rodolpho Pajuaba
                    Recently I had a similar, although smaller, task; I had to digitize around 2.000 old, dusty, smeared slides. Even having to clean them prior to scan (which was
                    Message 9 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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                      Recently I had a similar, although smaller, task; I had to digitize around 2.000 old, dusty, smeared slides. Even having to clean them prior to scan (which was done by my assistant) it took no more than 1 day to repro them old-school: camera on a stand, 50mm macro lens, small light table (improvised, I used a strobe and a sheet of plexi). I firmly believe that this is the best way; I used an old Canon D60, but you probably have a better thing to use. I only didn't use my MFDB because it wasn't worth it.
                      HTH,
                      Rodolpho Pajuaba
                      www.pajuaba.com.br/heterose
                      www.pajuaba.com.br/panoblog
                      www.pajuaba.com.br/traduzindophotoshop
                      Follow me on Twitter - @rpajuaba


                      2011/9/26 Jeffrey Martin <panoramas@...>


                      I have taken possession of my grandfather's slides. Around 10,000 of them, I guess. Spanning 4 decades or so. Images from many different countries. Mostly kodachrome. Shot with a leica rangefinder camera. Stored in a cabinet in a basement all this time, under very good climate control.

                    • Jim Watters
                      ... I think you will find fewer and fewer scanners for slides as time moves on. I worked for a company that sold scanners and provided software for other
                      Message 10 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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                        On 2011-09-26 9:30 AM, prague wrote:
                        will such software really continue evolving? We won't run out of slides to scan in the next years? I mean, the technology of scanning slides isn't exactly at the forefront of consumer demand, is it.
                        

                        I think you will find fewer and fewer scanners for slides as time moves on.
                        I worked for a company that sold scanners and provided software for other companies for their scanners.  We specialized in document scanning for businesses and most other manufactures were the same. Film scanners were not included as a competitor so I was not following them closely.

                        The two scanners you are looking at were released in 2005 and 2006.

                        Reflecta is about the only manufacture that is continuing to make dedicated slide scanners. The other manufactures are providing slide scanning via a flatbed with transparency adapter.

                        Vuescan and Silverfast were created to provide software for the hardware that all these manufactures have abandoned.

                        The filmscanner.info web site was a great find.
                        For Kodachrome slides you want Digital ICE Professional or no Digital ICE removal at all.
                        http://www.filmscanner.info/en/Kodachrome.html

                        Vuescan,  as of 9.0.39 "Improved infrared cleaning of Ektachrome slides"
                        http://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/vuescan.htm#changes
                        Silverfast might be the same.

                        Both the scanners you mentioned provided the improved Digital ICE for Kodachrome (you probably new this).
                        If you will use this scanner for your final best scans, or use a professional scanning service then I would go with one of these. If you want to own a scanner that would do a better job as the final scan of the select few slides then I would go with the lightbox that attaches to a camera lens to proof all your slides.

                        It has been many years since I looked at Vuescan. But as I recall, it saves the raw scan data and can batch process this data to viewable images at any time. I think you will find the auto correct options produce acceptable results the most of the time. At least enough to proof the slides. Something like the Nikon ES-1 Slide Copier.
                        http://www.leifgoodwin.co.uk/ES1%20Review/ES1-Review.html

                        ... Three years ago I scanned about 5 old photo albums from my wife's family containing old B&W and sepia photos. Every photo was a different size. And most had the info about the photo on the back. I had to use a flatbed scanner to not harm the photos. But I made the mistake of speeding up the scanning process by placing many images on the glass at once. I would then flip the photos over to get the info from the back. This meant I could not use the auto crop feature to isolate the photos. The process of cropping each image from the batch scan is very time consuming.  After getting the first third done this project has sat untouched for a couple years.

                        -- 
                        Jim Watters
                        http://photocreations.ca
                      • Erik Krause
                        ... You can actually use a slide projector and your DSLR to automate this. The idea is to use a lower power lamp (20-50W will do), a translucent glass instead
                        Message 11 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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                          Am 26.09.2011 10:46, schrieb Wim Koornneef:
                          > Scanning of slides the old fashion way can take a lot of time, I guess a
                          > workaround for this could be to shoot a series of hi-res HDR images saved as
                          > RAW of each slide (*), this would take less then a second to shoot and
                          > including handling of the slides you could shoot 10 slides per minute, so if
                          > you work like a brainless robot you could do the job within a couple of days
                          > ;-)

                          You can actually use a slide projector and your DSLR to automate this.
                          The idea is to use a lower power lamp (20-50W will do), a translucent
                          glass instead of the usual heat filter, remove the projection lens and
                          shoot the slide directly with a macro lens. Some Lego mechanics (or your
                          computer and some electronics) can alternately press the advance button
                          of the projector and the camera release.

                          The problem is the slide tray, it might collide with the camera if you
                          use a too short focal length. I guess a 270mm macro lens should work.
                          Alternatively your 400mm lens and a good 2dpt achromatic close up lens
                          will do.

                          The advantages are a higher depth of field (properly stopped down) than
                          a usual slide scanner (where a slightly curved slide will produce
                          blurred corners) and a much higher speed.

                          The disadvantage compared to a decent slide scanner (I'd choose the
                          Nikon BTW) is the lack of automated dust and scratch removal. The
                          scanners do an additional infrared scan, since slide material is
                          transparent for IR. (Kodachrome is a a bit different since it contains
                          metallic silver). I didn't test yet whether it is sufficient to shoot
                          the slide a second time with an IR filter and provide this image as an
                          alpha channel to vuescan (the so called vuescan raw format is a linear
                          gamma 16bit TIFF).

                          --
                          Erik Krause
                          http://www.erik-krause.de
                        • mrjimbo
                          Hey Jeff, Good to hear you finally got them.. I ve read the posts .. Yup what a great group.... Your logic (1 thru 4) is pretty good.. I agree 10,000 is a
                          Message 12 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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                            Hey Jeff,
                            Good to hear you finally got them.. I've read the posts .. Yup what a great group....
                            Your logic  (1 thru 4) is pretty good.. I agree 10,000 is a bunch.. The issues that your dealing with I have been dealing with for years.. I think you know that we do scanning here.. Drum  etc etc.  Anyway.. It doesn't make sense to high end scan that many slides if for no other reason then the cost.. I base that also on that maybe all the slides are good but are they "money" shots that would rate that kind of expense..
                             
                            As far as the film scanners .. Jeff I have 2 Nikon LS 5000's and their just too darn slow.. The slide feeders work but their is a real price in the quality department as far as I'm concerned and yes they do jam..
                             
                            A few here have offered suggesting as to alternate methods of getting them into digital using a DSLR.. I have pretty much done them all and have only found one way that has the quality up where I'm pretty much ok with it... Even then when exceptional slides surface from the batch they are set aside to be scanned properly later.. Which by the way is neat as they get sorted as you go along..
                             
                            What we have come up with is using a Bowens Illumitran ...you know the moldy oldie copy unit... they are very cost effective now...as in cheap...  The model you want is the 3 or 3s as it also has a preflash unit..
                            We rework them by putting on a good Nikon bellows unit that will allow us to mount a D700, D3s or a D3x on them .. So yes were using full frame sensors..  We also use a real copy, flat field lens.... Once the unit is done we build a custom input profile for it.. We use Nikons software and live view so were looking at a screen not thru the camera. It is absolutely a real plus to shoot in RAW format.. Once you get the system down it is very fast.... (3 to 4  per minute easily if the slides are good).. Another plus especially when dealing with old slides is that you get to see what your going to get on the screen so if it's a bum slide or really dirty it can be set aside in batches to deal with what ever isn't right.. What I'm trying to say is that work flow has a pretty good opportunity to stay successful if you don't choose to get stuck on an odd slide..  You can build up one of these far more cost effectively then you'll buy a Nikon LS5000 and the slide feeder attachment.. The Slide feeders have actually gone up in price as their hard to get as have the scanner.. I bought mine new and their actually more now..
                             
                            I have built up a few of these rigs now to solve problems like this.. This isn't the perfect answer but so far when your dealing with money and time and quality this seems to be the best negotiation of it all that I've seen .. As a note the images off of them are being accepted buy agencies so it's certainly in the ball park as far as a process goes..
                             
                            jimbo
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 12:58 AM
                            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] grandfather's slides

                             

                            I have taken possession of my grandfather's slides. Around 10,000 of them, I guess. Spanning 4 decades or so. Images from many different countries. Mostly kodachrome. Shot with a leica rangefinder camera. Stored in a cabinet in a basement all this time, under very good climate control.

                            I've come to the following conclusions:

                            1) I don't trust anyone else in the family to store these :-O Someone might stick them in a hot attic or something.
                            2) Commercial scanning services cost too much for an inferior resultt.
                            3) Scanning all these "the right way" professionally will be WAY too expensive.
                            4) Scanning them at home "the right way" will take too long. I don't have _years_ of my life to devote to this, not yet anyway.

                            Therefore I think I need to batch scan them at home. I have found two possibilities:
                            1) http://www.filmscanner.info/en/ReflectaDigitDia5000.html the Reflecta digit dia 5000
                            2) nikon coolscan 5000 with a slide feeder http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-SF-210-Slide-Feeder-Sf-210/dp/B0001AVVRA

                            I will use either silverfast or vuescan software. After bulk scanning everything I'll be able to go back and rescan any masterpieces individually as needed.

                            Have I made any incorrect assumptions above? Can anyone advise something I might have missed? I guess that even scanning them in bulk like this might take a couple of years of my spare time, but I'm willing to do that.

                            Oh, and yes, I hope to start a blog with all these images ;)

                          • Thomas Krüger
                            Using an old Bowens Illumitran with the preflash unit or contrast control unit, the DSLR and a macro lens should work.
                            Message 13 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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                              Using an old Bowens Illumitran with the preflash unit or contrast control
                              unit, the DSLR and a macro lens should work.
                              http://www.butkus.org/chinon/bowens/bowens_illumitran-3/bowens_illumitran-3.htm
                              http://members.bitstream.net/~tlmartin/parts.html

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                            • Richard
                              Can you post a side by side comparison , Bowens verses a good scan? Thanks
                              Message 14 of 24 , Sep 26, 2011
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                                Can you post a side by side comparison , Bowens verses a good scan?

                                Thanks


                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Krüger <th.krueger@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Using an old Bowens Illumitran with the preflash unit or contrast control
                                > unit, the DSLR and a macro lens should work.
                                > http://www.butkus.org/chinon/bowens/bowens_illumitran-3/bowens_illumitran-3.htm
                                > http://members.bitstream.net/~tlmartin/parts.html
                                >
                                > --
                                > View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/grandfather-s-slides-tp3842900p3846106.html
                                > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                >
                              • mrjimbo
                                Jeff, The 2nd url Thomas posted is of the 3s model.. That is their latest and final model.. If your inclined to go in this direction that is the ideal model to
                                Message 15 of 24 , Sep 27, 2011
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                                  Jeff,
                                  The 2nd url Thomas posted is of the 3s model.. That is their latest and final model.. If your inclined to go in this direction that is the ideal model to go after. The bellows unit only accommodate smaller bodies (Canon has a small FX format that just fits) The bellows unit can be replaced with specific Nikon and Canon units that accommodate all the current DSLR bodies including electronics. This change requires having a couple of custom brackets machined to off set the bellows mounting bracket further rear word.. If you don't use Live view then a right angle viewfinder is also a real plus. These units have an internal height adjustable light source and preview lights.. This may not be the way you choose to go but it makes sense to have it on the consideration table..
                                   
                                  jimbo
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:59 PM
                                  Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: grandfather's slides

                                   

                                  Using an old Bowens Illumitran with the preflash unit or contrast control
                                  unit, the DSLR and a macro lens should work.
                                  http://www.butkus.org/chinon/bowens/bowens_illumitran-3/bowens_illumitran-3.htm
                                  http://members.bitstream.net/~tlmartin/parts.html

                                  --
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                                • prague
                                  Hi Jimbo, I like your suggestions. Thanks very much for your input. Looking at the Bowens Illumitran, I think this is the way to go. Now, a few questions: 1)
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Sep 27, 2011
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                                    Hi Jimbo,

                                    I like your suggestions. Thanks very much for your input. Looking at the Bowens Illumitran, I think this is the way to go.

                                    Now, a few questions:

                                    1) you mentioned nikon. can i use a canon rig on this instead?
                                    2) what do you mean by "real copy, flat field lens" ? can you name an example of such a lens? i guess you mean like an enlarger lens?
                                    3) how do you build a "custom input profile" for it?

                                    thanks!
                                    Jeffrey


                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:

                                    > What we have come up with is using a Bowens Illumitran ...you know the moldy oldie copy unit... they are very cost effective now...as in cheap... The model you want is the 3 or 3s as it also has a preflash unit..
                                    > We rework them by putting on a good Nikon bellows unit that will allow us to mount a D700, D3s or a D3x on them .. So yes were using full frame sensors.. We also use a real copy, flat field lens.... Once the unit is done we build a custom input profile for it.. We use Nikons software and live view so were looking at a screen not thru the camera. It is absolutely a real plus to shoot in RAW format.. Once you get the system down it is very fast.... (3 to 4 per minute easily if the slides are good).. Another plus especially when dealing with old slides is that you get to see what your going to get on the screen so if it's a bum slide or really dirty it can be set aside in batches to deal with what ever isn't right.. What I'm trying to say is that work flow has a pretty good opportunity to stay successful if you don't choose to get stuck on an odd slide.. You can build up one of these far more cost effectively then you'll buy a Nikon LS5000 and the slide feeder attachment.. The Slide feeders have actually gone up in price as their hard to get as have the scanner.. I bought mine new and their actually more now..
                                    >
                                    > I have built up a few of these rigs now to solve problems like this.. This isn't the perfect answer but so far when your dealing with money and time and quality this seems to be the best negotiation of it all that I've seen .. As a note the images off of them are being accepted buy agencies so it's certainly in the ball park as far as a process goes..
                                    >
                                    > jimbo
                                  • Erik Krause
                                    ... Get an IT-8 calibration slide f.e. from Wolf Faust: http://www.targets.coloraid.de/ He doesn t seem to have Kodachrome targets any more. Ask him directly,
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Sep 27, 2011
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                                      Am 27.09.2011 16:47, schrieb prague:
                                      > 3) how do you build a "custom input profile" for it?

                                      Get an IT-8 calibration slide f.e. from Wolf Faust:
                                      http://www.targets.coloraid.de/
                                      He doesn't seem to have Kodachrome targets any more. Ask him directly,
                                      he's a nice guy. Or order from B&H: http://tinyurl.com/6zahase

                                      Get a calibrating software, cheapest might be ProfilPrism to create the
                                      profile. vuescan has built in profiling support, but to my experience it
                                      is not very good.

                                      --
                                      Erik Krause
                                      http://www.erik-krause.de
                                    • mrjimbo
                                      Jeffrey, Yes you can use a Canon.. Yes a quality enlarger lens is superior..they are flat field and have the best edge to edge sharpness... The best of these
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Sep 27, 2011
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                                        Jeffrey,
                                         
                                        Yes you can use a Canon..
                                         
                                        Yes a quality enlarger lens is superior..they are flat field and have the best edge to edge sharpness... The best of these are no longer in production.. Schneider Krummps ( various versions ...some are better then others)
                                         
                                        Using an IT8.. or a hutch target ...Shoot that then using color management software build a custom profile.. When you do this you don't want to change any settings when you shoot all the slides you'll want to use the same as used to shoot the target including all light settings etc .. you would use this as your input profile.. Far better then using your camera profile as it's dilaed in for the Bowens and your camera workng together..
                                         
                                        I've done a few of these in the past couple of years ..Everyone loves em so far.. We're even kicking around getting a digital back hassy mounted on one.. Oh you can do items larger then a 35mm slide but your limited of course to the camera your using as far as format & file size goes.
                                         
                                        If you get into it and have any questions just give me a shout..
                                         
                                        jimbo
                                         
                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: prague
                                        Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 8:47 AM
                                        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: grandfather's slides

                                         


                                        Hi Jimbo,

                                        I like your suggestions. Thanks very much for your input. Looking at the Bowens Illumitran, I think this is the way to go.

                                        Now, a few questions:

                                        1) you mentioned nikon. can i use a canon rig on this instead?
                                        2) what do you mean by "real copy, flat field lens" ? can you name an example of such a lens? i guess you mean like an enlarger lens?
                                        3) how do you build a "custom input profile" for it?

                                        thanks!
                                        Jeffrey

                                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:

                                        > What we have come up with is using a Bowens Illumitran ...you know the moldy oldie copy unit... they are very cost effective now...as in cheap... The model you want is the 3 or 3s as it also has a preflash unit..
                                        > We rework them by putting on a good Nikon bellows unit that will allow us to mount a D700, D3s or a D3x on them .. So yes were using full frame sensors.. We also use a real copy, flat field lens.... Once the unit is done we build a custom input profile for it.. We use Nikons software and live view so were looking at a screen not thru the camera. It is absolutely a real plus to shoot in RAW format.. Once you get the system down it is very fast.... (3 to 4 per minute easily if the slides are good).. Another plus especially when dealing with old slides is that you get to see what your going to get on the screen so if it's a bum slide or really dirty it can be set aside in batches to deal with what ever isn't right.. What I'm trying to say is that work flow has a pretty good opportunity to stay successful if you don't choose to get stuck on an odd slide.. You can build up one of these far more cost effectively then you'll buy a Nikon LS5000 and the slide feeder attachment.. The Slide feeders have actually gone up in price as their hard to get as have the scanner.. I bought mine new and their actually more now..
                                        >
                                        > I have built up a few of these rigs now to solve problems like this.. This isn't the perfect answer but so far when your dealing with money and time and quality this seems to be the best negotiation of it all that I've seen .. As a note the images off of them are being accepted buy agencies so it's certainly in the ball park as far as a process goes..
                                        >
                                        > jimbo

                                      • robert
                                        Seems like we ve been here before, did this not work? http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/43969 cheers, Robert
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Sep 27, 2011
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                                          Seems like we've been here before, did this not work?

                                          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/43969

                                          cheers,

                                          Robert

                                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Martin <panoramas@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I have taken possession of my grandfather's slides. Around 10,000 of them, I
                                          > guess. Spanning 4 decades or so. Images from many different countries.
                                          > Mostly kodachrome. Shot with a leica rangefinder camera. Stored in a cabinet
                                          > in a basement all this time, under very good climate control.
                                          >
                                          > I've come to the following conclusions:
                                          >
                                          > 1) I don't trust anyone else in the family to store these :-O Someone might
                                          > stick them in a hot attic or something.
                                          > 2) Commercial scanning services cost too much for an inferior resultt.
                                          > 3) Scanning all these "the right way" professionally will be WAY too
                                          > expensive.
                                          > 4) Scanning them at home "the right way" will take too long. I don't have
                                          > _years_ of my life to devote to this, not yet anyway.
                                          >
                                          > Therefore I think I need to batch scan them at home. I have found two
                                          > possibilities:
                                          > 1) http://www.filmscanner.info/en/ReflectaDigitDia5000.html the Reflecta
                                          > digit dia 5000
                                          > 2) nikon coolscan 5000 with a slide feeder
                                          > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-SF-210-Slide-Feeder-Sf-210/dp/B0001AVVRA
                                          >
                                          > I will use either silverfast or vuescan software. After bulk scanning
                                          > everything I'll be able to go back and rescan any masterpieces individually
                                          > as needed.
                                          >
                                          > Have I made any incorrect assumptions above? Can anyone advise something I
                                          > might have missed? I guess that even scanning them in bulk like this might
                                          > take a couple of years of my spare time, but I'm willing to do that.
                                          >
                                          > Oh, and yes, I hope to start a blog with all these images ;)
                                          >
                                        • prague
                                          Thanks Robert, yes I know :) that was for my dad. Different situation, and much fewer slides. This time there are more slides and none of them are in sleeves.
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Sep 28, 2011
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                                            Thanks Robert, yes I know :) that was for my dad. Different situation, and much fewer slides. This time there are more slides and none of them are in sleeves.



                                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "robert" <image360@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Seems like we've been here before, did this not work?
                                            >
                                            > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/43969
                                            >
                                            > cheers,
                                            >
                                            > Robert
                                            >
                                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Martin <panoramas@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > I have taken possession of my grandfather's slides. Around 10,000 of them, I
                                            > > guess. Spanning 4 decades or so. Images from many different countries.
                                            > > Mostly kodachrome. Shot with a leica rangefinder camera. Stored in a cabinet
                                            > > in a basement all this time, under very good climate control.
                                            > >
                                            > > I've come to the following conclusions:
                                            > >
                                            > > 1) I don't trust anyone else in the family to store these :-O Someone might
                                            > > stick them in a hot attic or something.
                                            > > 2) Commercial scanning services cost too much for an inferior resultt.
                                            > > 3) Scanning all these "the right way" professionally will be WAY too
                                            > > expensive.
                                            > > 4) Scanning them at home "the right way" will take too long. I don't have
                                            > > _years_ of my life to devote to this, not yet anyway.
                                            > >
                                            > > Therefore I think I need to batch scan them at home. I have found two
                                            > > possibilities:
                                            > > 1) http://www.filmscanner.info/en/ReflectaDigitDia5000.html the Reflecta
                                            > > digit dia 5000
                                            > > 2) nikon coolscan 5000 with a slide feeder
                                            > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-SF-210-Slide-Feeder-Sf-210/dp/B0001AVVRA
                                            > >
                                            > > I will use either silverfast or vuescan software. After bulk scanning
                                            > > everything I'll be able to go back and rescan any masterpieces individually
                                            > > as needed.
                                            > >
                                            > > Have I made any incorrect assumptions above? Can anyone advise something I
                                            > > might have missed? I guess that even scanning them in bulk like this might
                                            > > take a couple of years of my spare time, but I'm willing to do that.
                                            > >
                                            > > Oh, and yes, I hope to start a blog with all these images ;)
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • prague
                                            Jimbo, does this mean that I need to use even the same *exposure* ? What about using bracketing, and creating and HDR file? Or is this overkill?
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Sep 28, 2011
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                                              Jimbo,

                                              does this mean that I need to use even the same *exposure* ?

                                              What about using bracketing, and creating and HDR file? Or is this overkill?



                                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
                                              >

                                              >
                                              > Yes a quality enlarger lens is superior..they are flat field and have the best edge to edge sharpness... The best of these are no longer in production.. Schneider Krummps ( various versions ...some are better then others)
                                              >
                                              > Using an IT8.. or a hutch target ...Shoot that then using color management software build a custom profile.. When you do this you don't want to change any settings when you shoot all the slides you'll want to use the same as used to shoot the target including all light settings etc .. you would use this as your input profile.. Far better then using your camera profile as it's dilaed in for the Bowens and your camera workng together..
                                            • robert
                                              Having organized contact sheets is even more important as the number of images increases. However, you approach this you need a system to catalog the images
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Sep 28, 2011
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Having organized contact sheets is even more important as the number of images increases. However, you approach this you need a system to catalog the images from the digital proofs to the physical copies. Otherwise you will spend hours looking for the slide you want.

                                                I would suggest the same approach here, just put n number of slides onto a flatbed scanner, scan at a relatively low res, print it, label it, take that set of slides and put them in sleeves. Then put all the contact prints and matching slides in the same container.

                                                Good Luck,

                                                Robert

                                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <panoramas@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Thanks Robert, yes I know :) that was for my dad. Different situation, and much fewer slides. This time there are more slides and none of them are in sleeves.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "robert" <image360@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Seems like we've been here before, did this not work?
                                                > >
                                                > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/43969
                                                > >
                                                > > cheers,
                                                > >
                                                > > Robert
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Martin <panoramas@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I have taken possession of my grandfather's slides. Around 10,000 of them, I
                                                > > > guess. Spanning 4 decades or so. Images from many different countries.
                                                > > > Mostly kodachrome. Shot with a leica rangefinder camera. Stored in a cabinet
                                                > > > in a basement all this time, under very good climate control.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I've come to the following conclusions:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > 1) I don't trust anyone else in the family to store these :-O Someone might
                                                > > > stick them in a hot attic or something.
                                                > > > 2) Commercial scanning services cost too much for an inferior resultt.
                                                > > > 3) Scanning all these "the right way" professionally will be WAY too
                                                > > > expensive.
                                                > > > 4) Scanning them at home "the right way" will take too long. I don't have
                                                > > > _years_ of my life to devote to this, not yet anyway.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Therefore I think I need to batch scan them at home. I have found two
                                                > > > possibilities:
                                                > > > 1) http://www.filmscanner.info/en/ReflectaDigitDia5000.html the Reflecta
                                                > > > digit dia 5000
                                                > > > 2) nikon coolscan 5000 with a slide feeder
                                                > > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-SF-210-Slide-Feeder-Sf-210/dp/B0001AVVRA
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I will use either silverfast or vuescan software. After bulk scanning
                                                > > > everything I'll be able to go back and rescan any masterpieces individually
                                                > > > as needed.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Have I made any incorrect assumptions above? Can anyone advise something I
                                                > > > might have missed? I guess that even scanning them in bulk like this might
                                                > > > take a couple of years of my spare time, but I'm willing to do that.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Oh, and yes, I hope to start a blog with all these images ;)
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • L.D.I. Felipe B. González
                                                Hi! I use this scanner for my old family slides and negatives:
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Sep 28, 2011
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                                                  Hi!

                                                  I use this scanner for my old family slides and negatives: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/758586-REG/Wolverine_F2D300_7_3_Megapixel_35mm_Negatives.html

                                                  It´s not a high end resolution nor color definition, but it helps me sort easily what slides need a professional scan.

                                                  Best regards from the subtropical regions of México

                                                  2011/9/28 robert <image360@...>
                                                   

                                                  Having organized contact sheets is even more important as the number of images increases. However, you approach this you need a system to catalog the images from the digital proofs to the physical copies. Otherwise you will spend hours looking for the slide you want.

                                                  I would suggest the same approach here, just put n number of slides onto a flatbed scanner, scan at a relatively low res, print it, label it, take that set of slides and put them in sleeves. Then put all the contact prints and matching slides in the same container.

                                                  Good Luck,

                                                  Robert

                                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <panoramas@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks Robert, yes I know :) that was for my dad. Different situation, and much fewer slides. This time there are more slides and none of them are in sleeves.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "robert" <image360@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Seems like we've been here before, did this not work?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/43969
                                                  > >
                                                  > > cheers,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Robert
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Martin <panoramas@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I have taken possession of my grandfather's slides. Around 10,000 of them, I
                                                  > > > guess. Spanning 4 decades or so. Images from many different countries.
                                                  > > > Mostly kodachrome. Shot with a leica rangefinder camera. Stored in a cabinet
                                                  > > > in a basement all this time, under very good climate control.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I've come to the following conclusions:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > 1) I don't trust anyone else in the family to store these :-O Someone might
                                                  > > > stick them in a hot attic or something.
                                                  > > > 2) Commercial scanning services cost too much for an inferior resultt.
                                                  > > > 3) Scanning all these "the right way" professionally will be WAY too
                                                  > > > expensive.
                                                  > > > 4) Scanning them at home "the right way" will take too long. I don't have
                                                  > > > _years_ of my life to devote to this, not yet anyway.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Therefore I think I need to batch scan them at home. I have found two
                                                  > > > possibilities:
                                                  > > > 1) http://www.filmscanner.info/en/ReflectaDigitDia5000.html the Reflecta
                                                  > > > digit dia 5000
                                                  > > > 2) nikon coolscan 5000 with a slide feeder
                                                  > > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-SF-210-Slide-Feeder-Sf-210/dp/B0001AVVRA
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I will use either silverfast or vuescan software. After bulk scanning
                                                  > > > everything I'll be able to go back and rescan any masterpieces individually
                                                  > > > as needed.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Have I made any incorrect assumptions above? Can anyone advise something I
                                                  > > > might have missed? I guess that even scanning them in bulk like this might
                                                  > > > take a couple of years of my spare time, but I'm willing to do that.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Oh, and yes, I hope to start a blog with all these images ;)
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >




                                                  --
                                                  L.D.I. Felipe B. González C.
                                                  felipe@...
                                                  1998-5246
                                                  www.fpk.com.mx
                                                  http://recorridosvirtualesmexico.blogspot.com/

                                                  Socio Director Maquetas Virtuales www.maquetasvirtuales.com
                                                  Socio Director Recorridos Virtuales www.recorridosvirtuales.com
                                                • luca vascon
                                                  Hi Jeff!! ... Loook who is here?! I had a Nikon Coolscan in university. That crappy feeder won t last 10.000 slides without repair. It won t work on Kodachrome
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Oct 18, 2011
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                                                    Hi Jeff!!
                                                    :-)
                                                    Loook who is here?!

                                                    I had a Nikon Coolscan in university.

                                                    That crappy feeder won't last 10.000 slides without repair.
                                                    It won't work on Kodachrome paper slide frames
                                                    it won't work on gepe glass slide frames
                                                    it will hung on different frame thickness
                                                    Digital ICE won't work on Kodachrome

                                                    but it is a better scanner then Reflecta, but if you wand a slide scanner for 35mm alone, the 5400 Konica Minolta is FAR better choice than the 5000ED in many senses.

                                                    I was very very happy with Epson V750, and own an old 4870. Intelligent choice if you need to scan medium, large or strange film formats.


                                                    IMHO choices are two:
                                                    1- the Reflecta
                                                    2- a very intensive modding of a Kodak Carousel or Rollei hi-end projector (computer controllable via rs232)
                                                    Calibrated LED light, substitution of optics with a dedicated camera+macro lens.
                                                    I'd choose a Canon550D for remotability.


                                                    2011/9/26 prague <panoramas@...>

                                                    LOL

                                                    I love this list :)

                                                    Yes, I can certainly wait 8 years until our robot overlords reach a prepubescent phase. In some ways this is the best answer - worrying about it later is just very appealing to me :)

                                                    Only question is, how to "whack together an archival-grade vault" ? I would guess that this might not be quite as simple as Blochi suggests.

                                                    For now the slides have been moved to self storage in a facility, in a large warehouse that is climate-controlled. with autumn and winter approaching I think all is ok, but I should move them into a better place relatively soon I think.

                                                    My only question - will such software really continue evolving? We won't run out of slides to scan in the next years? I mean, the technology of scanning slides isn't exactly at the forefront of consumer demand, is it.



                                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bloch <Blochi@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi Jeffrey,
                                                    >
                                                    > I wholeheartedly agree with Wim.
                                                    >
                                                    > Whack together an archival-grade vault, can't be harder than modding a PC case. Some humidity and temperature controller. And your slides will outlive any digital image file you could make today. Not only bit rod, but also in terms of quality processing. Wait 5 or 8 years. Then it will sound silly to you to edit with the crappy tools we have today. I still believe in the HDR revolution, and your slides may have so much latitude that you'd have to be concerned to A) scan all it all, and B) preserve it during postprocessing. You'd have to tonemap it today, irreversibly squeeze and push to fit in through our current 8-bit pipelines. In 3 years you won't have to do this anymore, and in 5 you will just shake your head about how badly we treated our image data these days. And when you wait 8, Wim's AI will be happy to do it for you. But don't wait 13 years, because then you will actually have to discuss with the AI and convince it or bribe it for a favor.  ;)
                                                    >
                                                    > Blochi
                                                    >




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