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How does the color look on this pano?

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  • onezebra1
    I got a new monitor, its an HP 2711 x 27 led, and it s suppose to be easier on the eyes. I don t have it color balanced yet and was wondering how the color
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 5, 2011
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      I got a new monitor, its an HP 2711 x 27" led, and it's suppose to be easier on the eyes.
      I don't have it color balanced yet and was wondering how the color looks this pano I just made.
      Santa Barbara old Spanish days parade.
      http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/parade_equestrian4.html

      Thanks,
      Roger Berry
    • Sacha Griffin
      Color looks spot on for a calibrated monitor. It does look about 3 degrees out of level however. -s From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 5, 2011
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        Color looks spot on for a calibrated monitor. It does look about 3 degrees
        out of level however.



        -s



        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of onezebra1
        Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 8:59 PM
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] How does the color look on this pano?





        I got a new monitor, its an HP 2711 x 27" led, and it's suppose to be easier
        on the eyes.
        I don't have it color balanced yet and was wondering how the color looks
        this pano I just made.
        Santa Barbara old Spanish days parade.
        http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/parade_equestrian4.html

        Thanks,
        Roger Berry





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ken Warner
        Given the typically washed out permacast gray sky, the colors look good on my old uncalibrated tube....
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 5, 2011
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          Given the typically washed out permacast gray sky, the colors
          look good on my old uncalibrated tube....

          onezebra1 wrote:
          > I got a new monitor, its an HP 2711 x 27" led, and it's suppose to be easier on the eyes.
          > I don't have it color balanced yet and was wondering how the color looks this pano I just made.
          > Santa Barbara old Spanish days parade.
          > http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/parade_equestrian4.html
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Roger Berry
          >
          >
          >
        • GTG Vierstra
          Unfortunately calibrating your monitor will not work for Flash. Flash doesn t look at color profiles afaik. ... -- best regards, G.T.G. Vierstra
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 6, 2011
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            Unfortunately calibrating your monitor will not work for Flash.

            Flash doesn't look at color profiles afaik.



            On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 02:59, onezebra1 <onezebra1@...> wrote:
            > I got a new monitor, its an HP 2711 x 27" led, and it's suppose to be easier on the eyes.
            > I don't have it color balanced yet and was wondering how the color looks this pano I just made.
            > Santa Barbara old Spanish days parade.
            > http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/parade_equestrian4.html
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Roger Berry
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > --
            >
            >
            >
            >



            --
            best regards,

            G.T.G. Vierstra
          • Erik Krause
            ... I thought this is the task of a profile loader. Once the profile is in the graphic cards CLUT the software doesn t need to look at. Doesn t the usual
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 6, 2011
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              Am 06.08.2011 14:02, schrieb GTG Vierstra:
              > Unfortunately calibrating your monitor will not work for Flash.
              >
              > Flash doesn't look at color profiles afaik.

              I thought this is the task of a profile loader. Once the profile is in
              the graphic cards CLUT the software doesn't need to look at. Doesn't the
              usual profiling software do that?

              --
              Erik Krause
            • GTG Vierstra
              ... Well, I don t know how it normally works, but I have a LG IPS monitor and calibrated it with a Spyder 3 express.... The *color* profile created is used
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 6, 2011
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                On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 20:38, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                > Am 06.08.2011 14:02, schrieb GTG Vierstra:
                >> Unfortunately calibrating your monitor will not work for Flash.
                >>
                >> Flash doesn't look at color profiles afaik.
                >
                > I thought this is the task of a profile loader. Once the profile is in
                > the graphic cards CLUT the software doesn't need to look at. Doesn't the
                > usual profiling software do that?
                >

                Well, I don't know how it "normally" works, but I have a LG IPS
                monitor and calibrated it with a Spyder 3 express....

                The *color* profile created is used only by profile aware
                applications, such as Firefox and Photoshop.

                So, I have different colors in Firefox and f.i. Chrome. And although
                FF uses the color profile, Flash (inside FF) doesn't use it...

                (Win7)

                --
                best regards,

                G.T.G. Vierstra
              • onezebra1
                Sounds like the color is good so I made 2 more panos of this event, there where over 500 horses in this parade. Close-up of Vaqueros sitting on their horses
                Message 7 of 18 , Aug 6, 2011
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                  Sounds like the color is good so I made 2 more panos of this event, there where over 500 horses in this parade.

                  Close-up of Vaqueros sitting on their horses waiting for the parade to start.
                  http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/parade_vaquero4.html

                  This is along to coast and the marine layer hasn't burned off yet. Here the parade turns from Harbor street to State street at the entrance of Stearns Wharf.
                  http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/parade_state4.html

                  Does the color, shadows and brightness look ok in these?

                  Thanks
                  Roger Berry
                • mrjimbo
                  Flash is not a color management aware program so it does not play by the rules as we would hope. Adobe is tinkering now with that but no clue when or if we ll
                  Message 8 of 18 , Aug 6, 2011
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                    Flash is not a color management aware program so it does not play by the rules as we would hope. Adobe is tinkering now with that but no clue when or if we'll see it.. A pretty functional work around is to : In Photoshop get the colors as you want them displayed worked out in Photoshop.. then in Photoshop convert the images color to an SRGB color space then save it without assigning any profile. The colors that are in the file now have been revamped to the srgb space and should display properly in Flash.. This is a pain probably for most but it is a workaround until adobe gets it worked out. You should not have to go back in and redo the image once they have color management awareness added to flash as their is no profile assigned and Flash will just look at the color values to display them. All this of course will have no effect on Monitors that are poorly or improperly calibrated..
                    Anyway give this method a try I think it might work for you if you can deal with the added steps.

                    jimbo
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Erik Krause
                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 12:38 PM
                    Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] How does the color look on this pano?



                    Am 06.08.2011 14:02, schrieb GTG Vierstra:
                    > Unfortunately calibrating your monitor will not work for Flash.
                    >
                    > Flash doesn't look at color profiles afaik.

                    I thought this is the task of a profile loader. Once the profile is in
                    the graphic cards CLUT the software doesn't need to look at. Doesn't the
                    usual profiling software do that?

                    --
                    Erik Krause




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Erik Krause
                    ... Hmmm, I had a tube monitor on windows 2000 two years ago. The color was way off without calibration, so I used an eye-one calibrating tool. The tool
                    Message 9 of 18 , Aug 6, 2011
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                      Am 06.08.2011 20:49, schrieb GTG Vierstra:
                      > Well, I don't know how it "normally" works, but I have a LG IPS
                      > monitor and calibrated it with a Spyder 3 express....
                      >
                      > The*color* profile created is used only by profile aware
                      > applications, such as Firefox and Photoshop.
                      >
                      > So, I have different colors in Firefox and f.i. Chrome. And although
                      > FF uses the color profile, Flash (inside FF) doesn't use it...

                      Hmmm, I had a tube monitor on windows 2000 two years ago. The color was
                      way off without calibration, so I used an eye-one calibrating tool. The
                      tool installed a calibration loader, so they looked alright on windows,
                      irfanview etc. I'm on win7 and two Dell monitors now which wheren't
                      changed much visibly by the calibration, but I hat the impression that
                      when I put the profile in the monitor color management preferences
                      windows loads it automatically...

                      --
                      Erik Krause
                    • Trausti Hraunfjord
                      Flash and colour correction: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/display/Stage.html#colorCorrection Stating that it is not
                      Message 10 of 18 , Aug 6, 2011
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                        Flash and colour correction:

                        http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/display/Stage.html#colorCorrection


                        Stating that it is not available to Flash, sounds way too much like some
                        propaganda coming from Steve Jobs.

                        Trausti


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Trausti Hraunfjord
                        And more here: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/quickstart/color_correction_as3.html On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Trausti Hraunfjord
                        Message 11 of 18 , Aug 6, 2011
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                          And more here:
                          http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/quickstart/color_correction_as3.html

                          On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Trausti Hraunfjord <
                          trausti.hraunfjord@...> wrote:

                          > Flash and colour correction:
                          >
                          >
                          > http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/display/Stage.html#colorCorrection
                          >
                          >
                          > Stating that it is not available to Flash, sounds way too much like some
                          > propaganda coming from Steve Jobs.
                          >
                          > Trausti
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • GTG Vierstra
                          Its my observation that krpano (or any other flash player) does not use color profiles. (and I have an Android phone) On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 01:38, Trausti
                          Message 12 of 18 , Aug 7, 2011
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                            Its my observation that krpano (or any other flash player) does not
                            use color profiles.

                            (and I have an Android phone)

                            On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 01:38, Trausti Hraunfjord
                            <trausti.hraunfjord@...> wrote:
                            > Flash and colour correction:
                            >
                            > http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/display/Stage.html#colorCorrection
                            >
                            >
                            > Stating that it is not available to Flash, sounds way too much like some
                            > propaganda coming from Steve Jobs.
                            >
                            > Trausti
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > --
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            --
                            best regards,

                            G.T.G. Vierstra
                          • Hans
                            ... It would be rather stupid starting to ad colorprofiles to the KRPano files or any other viewers multitiling tiles. The profiles ad around 8-10 kb to each
                            Message 13 of 18 , Aug 7, 2011
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                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, GTG Vierstra <vierstra@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Its my observation that krpano (or any other flash player) does not
                              > use color profiles.
                              >
                              > (and I have an Android phone)


                              It would be rather stupid starting to ad colorprofiles to the KRPano files or any other viewers multitiling tiles.

                              The profiles ad around 8-10 kb to each tile which means an additional download of 20-30% for each panorama. If the profiles also ad additional reading time in colormanaged browsers I do not know but remember a typical small 2048x2048 pano with multitiles has around 130 tiles.

                              As long as you only have Colormanagement in Safari it is of no use.
                              How many people do you think know how to activate it in Firefox and Chrome.

                              The correct way to handle it is of course to calibrate your monitor to sRGB and correct your images according to that.
                              If you include an sRGB profile or not is not important,

                              Hans


                              >
                              > On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 01:38, Trausti Hraunfjord
                              > <trausti.hraunfjord@...> wrote:
                              > > Flash and colour correction:
                              > >
                              > > http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/display/Stage.html#colorCorrection
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Stating that it is not available to Flash, sounds way too much like some
                              > > propaganda coming from Steve Jobs.
                              > >
                              > > Trausti
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > best regards,
                              >
                              > G.T.G. Vierstra
                              >
                            • mrjimbo
                              Hans, I think what your saying is not quite right.. sRGB is a device independent color space .. not a corrective profile for a device. if you assign that to
                              Message 14 of 18 , Aug 7, 2011
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                                Hans,
                                I think what your saying is not quite right.. sRGB is a device independent color space .. not a corrective profile for a device. if you assign that to your monitor your monitor would still have all it's inherent errors. The way to do this is to build a good monitor profile for your monitor such that you can see the color correctly to make your adjustments ..and use it the way it was designed to be used...

                                After adjusting your image to your satisfaction you have a couple of ways to go. You can assign the sRGB color space to your adjusted file.... but then a program that is color management aware will be needed to view the file correctly.. The other option is to actually convert (not assign) the image in Photoshop to the sRGB color space after you've completed your adjustments.. What that does is change the actual mapping of all the colors to actually be what you've developed in your adjusting process. Then don't assign a profile.. In actuality you could assign the sRGB profile after remapping the colors and it would not cause an issue but it's actually not necessary.

                                The file you now have whether you have a profile assigned or not will be a corrected tagged or untagged file that represents the proper color you want..So in systems that do not have the ability to use a profile your feeding it the correctly mapped color image.....and in systems that are color managed they are either reading an untagged file that has the correct color or if you assign a profile you'll still get the same result as it's a null point. This process takes all the hoopla and issues out of color management when the target file might be used in many different situations ... some color managed and some not.. In either direction you go if the viewers system is jacked up then you they will not view the image correctly .. The plus is that in doing it this way you end up actually remapping and or clipping the image to the sRGB color space which is viewable on all monitors and your providing the image mapped the way you want it to be viewed. So you have a better shot at them viewing it correctly.. I guess it's appropriate to add that note the file will get clipped doing this.. Our cameras today go well beyond sRGB and sending all this added info is part of the problem as it drives the remap of color based largely on colors not typically visible on our monitors..

                                Lastly , I'm not that good at explaining things sometimes.. This process may sound odd but it works.. and no your not double dipping in it. I posted previously and it probably didn't make much sense. Sorry.. In environments that all elements are color managed color managements and it's principles work very well.. In situations where that is not the case this is a work around.. If I'm not making sense please ask.. I'll try harder..
                                Sorry for the long post....

                                jimbo

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Hans
                                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 5:00 AM
                                Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: How does the color look on this pano?





                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, GTG Vierstra <vierstra@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Its my observation that krpano (or any other flash player) does not
                                > use color profiles.
                                >
                                > (and I have an Android phone)

                                It would be rather stupid starting to ad colorprofiles to the KRPano files or any other viewers multitiling tiles.

                                The profiles ad around 8-10 kb to each tile which means an additional download of 20-30% for each panorama. If the profiles also ad additional reading time in colormanaged browsers I do not know but remember a typical small 2048x2048 pano with multitiles has around 130 tiles.

                                As long as you only have Colormanagement in Safari it is of no use.
                                How many people do you think know how to activate it in Firefox and Chrome.

                                The correct way to handle it is of course to calibrate your monitor to sRGB and correct your images according to that.
                                If you include an sRGB profile or not is not important,

                                Hans

                                >
                                > On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 01:38, Trausti Hraunfjord
                                > <trausti.hraunfjord@...> wrote:
                                > > Flash and colour correction:
                                > >
                                > > http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/display/Stage.html#colorCorrection
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Stating that it is not available to Flash, sounds way too much like some
                                > > propaganda coming from Steve Jobs.
                                > >
                                > > Trausti
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > best regards,
                                >
                                > G.T.G. Vierstra
                                >





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Sacha Griffin
                                http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/parade_state4.html This one is too dark by quite a bit. This is common for overcast situations where a maximally bright
                                Message 15 of 18 , Aug 7, 2011
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                                  http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/parade_state4.html



                                  This one is too dark by quite a bit. This is common for overcast situations
                                  where a maximally bright light source is not present.



                                  The other one is just fine.



                                  Sacha Griffin

                                  Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia

                                  <http://www.seeit360.com> http://www.seeit360.com

                                  <http://twitter.com/SeeIt360> http://twitter.com/SeeIt360

                                  <http://www.facebook.com/panoramas/> http://www.facebook.com/panoramas/

                                  IM: <mailto:sachagriffin007@...> sachagriffin007@...

                                  Office: 404-551-4275

                                  GV: 404-665-9990





                                  From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of onezebra1
                                  Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 3:34 PM
                                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: How does the color look on this pano?





                                  Sounds like the color is good so I made 2 more panos of this event, there
                                  where over 500 horses in this parade.

                                  Close-up of Vaqueros sitting on their horses waiting for the parade to
                                  start.
                                  http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/parade_vaquero4.html

                                  This is along to coast and the marine layer hasn't burned off yet. Here the
                                  parade turns from Harbor street to State street at the entrance of Stearns
                                  Wharf.
                                  http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/parade_state4.html

                                  Does the color, shadows and brightness look ok in these?

                                  Thanks
                                  Roger Berry



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • onezebra1
                                  Thanks Sacha, I brought the brightness up 30 in Photoshop and fixed a few other things in that pano. It dose look better now! Also on that first one I did go
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Aug 7, 2011
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                                    Thanks Sacha,

                                    I brought the brightness up 30 in Photoshop and fixed a few other things in that pano.
                                    It dose look better now!
                                    Also on that first one I did go back and level it better.

                                    Roger Berry


                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > http://www.indiavrtours.com/vrphotos/parade_state4.html
                                    >
                                    > This one is too dark by quite a bit. This is common for overcast situations
                                    > where a maximally bright light source is not present.
                                    >
                                    > The other one is just fine.
                                    >
                                    > Sacha Griffin
                                    >
                                    > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                                    >
                                    > <http://www.seeit360.com> http://www.seeit360.com
                                    >
                                    > <http://twitter.com/SeeIt360> http://twitter.com/SeeIt360
                                    >
                                    > <http://www.facebook.com/panoramas/> http://www.facebook.com/panoramas/
                                    >
                                    > IM: <mailto:sachagriffin007@...> sachagriffin007@...
                                    >
                                    > Office: 404-551-4275
                                    >
                                    > GV: 404-665-9990
                                  • Scott Witte
                                    Color management can be a confusing to understand. Let me take my stab at it. There is some confusion between calibrating and profiling the monitor. The first
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Aug 7, 2011
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                                      Color management can be a confusing to understand. Let me take my stab
                                      at it.

                                      There is some confusion between calibrating and profiling the monitor.
                                      The first step is to calibrate, or adjust it into as close to a known
                                      state as possible. The standard for that is a gamma of 2.2, white
                                      balance of 6500K (same as sRGB) and a luminance of 100 in most cases.
                                      You adjust (calibrate) the monitor's brightness, contrast and color
                                      balance to get as close to that as possible. The average person will do
                                      this by eye and this is a far as they go. Any professional should be
                                      using a hardware monitor calibrator, even an inexpensive one like a
                                      Color Monkey or Spyder, to help.

                                      Finally you profile the monitor using the calibrator. It measures
                                      (profiles) the actual colors the monitor produces and creates a profile
                                      from that. That profile is loaded into the video card's LUT (Look Up
                                      Table) to further fine tune the monitor to the standards you are aiming
                                      for. If you have done a good job calibrating and the monitor is a good
                                      one, the LUT adjustments will be minimal.

                                      Programs that use color management will use the profile when deciding
                                      just how to display color managed images. If there is no color
                                      management or if the image isn't tagged with a profile, they program
                                      just sends the image to display with no adjustments. If the image was
                                      adjusted in a sRGB colorspace and the monitor is calibrated as above it
                                      will look "right" anyway.

                                      For those who don't calibrate their monitors (i.e. nearly everyone) your
                                      panos will look no different than everything else they view since nearly
                                      all that should be in an sRGB colorspace as well.

                                      So, when Hans said calibrate your monitor to sRGB he was just using
                                      shorthand for all the above.

                                      Anybody who produces content for the web should REALLY be working on a
                                      hardware calibrated monitor. Otherwise you are taking some risk that
                                      your images may, in general, not look the way you expect them to.

                                      --
                                      Scott Witte

                                      <http://www.scottwitte.com>
                                      <http://www.tourdeforce360.com>
                                      414.345.9660
                                      Member, IVRPA



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • GTG Vierstra
                                      ... I have a Spyder express (Calibration) and a LG w2600 monitor (IPS), on Windows 7. (Nvidia GTX570) If I calibrate the monitor a color profile is generated,
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Aug 8, 2011
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                                        On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 05:30, Scott Witte <scottw@...> wrote:

                                        > Programs that use color management will use the profile when deciding
                                        > just how to display color managed images. If there is no color
                                        > management or if the image isn't tagged with a profile, they program
                                        > just sends the image to display with no adjustments.

                                        I have a Spyder express (Calibration) and a LG w2600 monitor (IPS), on
                                        Windows 7. (Nvidia GTX570)

                                        If I calibrate the monitor a color profile is generated, and used.
                                        This gives me calibrated images in profile aware applications, such as
                                        Photoshop and Firefox. Although the profile does something with
                                        brightness, the ordinary Desktop remains (color) uncalibrated. For me,
                                        with the Spyder software and Windows 7 its not like loading the
                                        profile in the video card and everything is calibrated, its only for
                                        color profile aware apps.

                                        As seems from previous posts, Flash can use color profiles. However,
                                        krpano doesn't seem to use it.

                                        Therefore, in my situation, colors are always other than
                                        "normal"...... comparing the jpg in PS or browser to the same jpg in
                                        flash.

                                        (anyways, I gave up on calibrating for now, I just fiddled a bit with
                                        the Nvidia control panel until it looked sort of OK (its an IPS panel,
                                        so it really needs calibrating), if someone would know how to create a
                                        fully calibrated Windows 7, I would be very happy)

                                        --
                                        best regards,

                                        G.T.G. Vierstra
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