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[?? Probable Spam] [PanoToolsNG] Re: Ideas for next cameras

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  • robert
    Fabio, WOW, that a extremely prescient view. Yet, not one point in it has come to market from Nikon, Canon, etc. RED PR forced video in both, and that is about
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1, 2011
      Fabio,

      WOW, that a extremely prescient view. Yet, not one point in it has come to market from Nikon, Canon, etc.

      RED PR forced video in both, and that is about it to date. Magic Lantern (CHK) has at least not been sued or other legal action taken against it. Imagine what tools we might have if they would embrace and encourage it, an uber "DSLR" iOS.

      Japan as a consistent thread seems not able to produce soft assets well. No clue why, but it seems from cars to cameras software is just not seen as a valued asset.

      Regards,

      Robert
    • Mark D. Fink
      Hi Fabio, I would point them to this recent article in Luminous Landscape: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml Thanks for
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 2, 2011
        Hi Fabio,

        I would point them to this recent article in Luminous Landscape:

        http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml

        Thanks for passing this along!

        Mark

        www.northernlight.net
        www.virtual-travels.com
        www.pinnacle-vr.com
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of Fabio Bustamante
        > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:12 PM
        > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Ideas for next cameras
        >
        > Hi everyone, how are you doing?
        >
        > Recently I was contacted by a brazilian consulting company that wanned
        > to talk to photographers. It turns out they were working together with
        > Nomura Research Institute (http://www.nri.co.jp/english/) a consulting
        > company doing some research for Japanese companies related to
        > professional photography - he mentioned Canon and Nikon.
        >
        > We talked today (with the help of a translator for the guy from NRI
        > spoke japanese) and although they were interested in the particularities
        > of the brazilian market, we also talked about equipment, and among other
        > things they asked what kind of features I missed on my DSLR.
        >
        > I listed a few things that I miss the most (I mentioned better
        > bracketing programming and full featured wireless remote control), but I
        > also mentioned this group and that I would ask the question here too. So
        > those of you who don't mind, feel free to share your thoughts and
        > suggestions and I'll compile a list and send to them.
        >
        > I have no idea of what may come out of it, but at least I think there's
        > a good chance that our ideas and requests will reach the right people
        > inside camera manufacturers.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Fabio.
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > --
        >
        >
        >
      • Ron Rack
        Wow that s a great article, thanks for passing along, ron rack ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 2, 2011
          Wow that's a great article, thanks for passing along,

          ron rack


          On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:51 AM, Mark D. Fink wrote:

          > Hi Fabio,
          >
          > I would point them to this recent article in Luminous Landscape:
          >
          > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml
          >
          > Thanks for passing this along!
          >
          > Mark
          >
          > www.northernlight.net
          > www.virtual-travels.com
          > www.pinnacle-vr.com
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
          > > Behalf Of Fabio Bustamante
          > > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:12 PM
          > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Ideas for next cameras
          > >
          > > Hi everyone, how are you doing?
          > >
          > > Recently I was contacted by a brazilian consulting company that wanned
          > > to talk to photographers. It turns out they were working together with
          > > Nomura Research Institute (http://www.nri.co.jp/english/) a consulting
          > > company doing some research for Japanese companies related to
          > > professional photography - he mentioned Canon and Nikon.
          > >
          > > We talked today (with the help of a translator for the guy from NRI
          > > spoke japanese) and although they were interested in the particularities
          > > of the brazilian market, we also talked about equipment, and among other
          > > things they asked what kind of features I missed on my DSLR.
          > >
          > > I listed a few things that I miss the most (I mentioned better
          > > bracketing programming and full featured wireless remote control), but I
          > > also mentioned this group and that I would ask the question here too. So
          > > those of you who don't mind, feel free to share your thoughts and
          > > suggestions and I'll compile a list and send to them.
          > >
          > > I have no idea of what may come out of it, but at least I think there's
          > > a good chance that our ideas and requests will reach the right people
          > > inside camera manufacturers.
          > >
          > > Regards,
          > >
          > > Fabio.
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > --
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Fabio Bustamante
          Mark, thanks for your link. That s an interesting theory... but I m not sure about it s practical application. Exposing To The Right usually means longer
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 2, 2011
            Mark, thanks for your link. That's an interesting theory... but I'm not
            sure about it's practical application.

            Exposing To The Right usually means longer exposure times (you don't
            want your DOF to be messed up by ETTR). Now, longer exposure times (in
            my photography) it's not exactly the kind of luxury I always have
            available. Many times I find myself on the edge of handheld shooting and
            even on a tripod, going from 1s to 3s for the sake of ETTR could easily
            introduce unwanted exagerated motion blur (from people, cars, trees,
            whatever). Usually in these situations we consciously exchange exposure
            times by noise by increasing ISO.

            In fact, if I have practical room for 2 stops of longer exposure for the
            ETTR, I could just go from ISO 400 to 100, which gives me a great
            improvement in noise as well. So the greatest application of ETTR would
            be in situations of medium to dark scenes, with medium to very low
            dynamic range, under ISO 100 and only if the user has room for 1 or 2
            stops of longer exposure without compromising the shot (otherwise the
            user will prefer higher noise).

            In real world my issues with noise happen in problematic, low light
            situations like shooting a party, a band show etc. In these situations I
            go for very high - and noisy - ISO exactly because I need practical
            exposure times. So even if the scene has a minimum dynamic range, it
            makes no sense my camera making much longer exposures for the sake of a
            lower noise.

            Did I get it all wrong?

            - Fabio

            Em 02/08/2011 08:51, Mark D. Fink escreveu:
            > Hi Fabio,
            >
            > I would point them to this recent article in Luminous Landscape:
            >
            > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml
            >
            > Thanks for passing this along!
            >
            > Mark
            >
            > www.northernlight.net
            > www.virtual-travels.com
            > www.pinnacle-vr.com
            >> -----Original Message-----
            >> From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
            >> Behalf Of Fabio Bustamante
            >> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:12 PM
            >> To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Ideas for next cameras
            >>
            >> Hi everyone, how are you doing?
            >>
            >> Recently I was contacted by a brazilian consulting company that wanned
            >> to talk to photographers. It turns out they were working together with
            >> Nomura Research Institute (http://www.nri.co.jp/english/) a consulting
            >> company doing some research for Japanese companies related to
            >> professional photography - he mentioned Canon and Nikon.
            >>
            >> We talked today (with the help of a translator for the guy from NRI
            >> spoke japanese) and although they were interested in the particularities
            >> of the brazilian market, we also talked about equipment, and among other
            >> things they asked what kind of features I missed on my DSLR.
            >>
            >> I listed a few things that I miss the most (I mentioned better
            >> bracketing programming and full featured wireless remote control), but I
            >> also mentioned this group and that I would ask the question here too. So
            >> those of you who don't mind, feel free to share your thoughts and
            >> suggestions and I'll compile a list and send to them.
            >>
            >> I have no idea of what may come out of it, but at least I think there's
            >> a good chance that our ideas and requests will reach the right people
            >> inside camera manufacturers.
            >>
            >> Regards,
            >>
            >> Fabio.
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> --
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
          • Sacha Griffin
            No, the article was a big mess in practicality and seemed a touch out of date. Sure you get lower noise.. but so what.. the rest of your image s tonalities are
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 2, 2011
              No, the article was a big mess in practicality and seemed a touch out of
              date.

              Sure you get lower noise.. but so what.. the rest of your image's tonalities
              are way off and clipped. Deep blacks are supposed to be black. Once black
              there should be no noise. Plus this article seems written for the WAY back
              in the day digital cameras where noise was a serious issue. These days with
              a proper camera, you're not dealing with noise being a show stopper, it's
              all about "ACCURATE EXPOSURE". Shooting ACCURATE exposure via raw will allow
              you to compress your dynamic range somewhat and give you a semi-realistic
              image. Realistic meaning, what the eye could have seen if it was there.

              Rarely do I see high key images that impress. It's the LOW key images that
              leave an impact in my opinion.



              I think that this was generated back when getting shadow details was
              something of a lost photoshop art.. before "shadows and highlights" and the
              ugliness of bad HDR tonemapping.





              Sacha Griffin

              Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia

              <http://www.seeit360.com> http://www.seeit360.com

              <http://twitter.com/SeeIt360> http://twitter.com/SeeIt360

              <http://www.facebook.com/panoramas/> http://www.facebook.com/panoramas/

              IM: <mailto:sachagriffin007@...> sachagriffin007@...

              Office: 404-551-4275

              GV: 404-665-9990









              From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Fabio Bustamante
              Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 10:24 PM
              To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Ideas for next cameras





              Mark, thanks for your link. That's an interesting theory... but I'm not
              sure about it's practical application.

              Exposing To The Right usually means longer exposure times (you don't
              want your DOF to be messed up by ETTR). Now, longer exposure times (in
              my photography) it's not exactly the kind of luxury I always have
              available. Many times I find myself on the edge of handheld shooting and
              even on a tripod, going from 1s to 3s for the sake of ETTR could easily
              introduce unwanted exagerated motion blur (from people, cars, trees,
              whatever). Usually in these situations we consciously exchange exposure
              times by noise by increasing ISO.

              In fact, if I have practical room for 2 stops of longer exposure for the
              ETTR, I could just go from ISO 400 to 100, which gives me a great
              improvement in noise as well. So the greatest application of ETTR would
              be in situations of medium to dark scenes, with medium to very low
              dynamic range, under ISO 100 and only if the user has room for 1 or 2
              stops of longer exposure without compromising the shot (otherwise the
              user will prefer higher noise).

              In real world my issues with noise happen in problematic, low light
              situations like shooting a party, a band show etc. In these situations I
              go for very high - and noisy - ISO exactly because I need practical
              exposure times. So even if the scene has a minimum dynamic range, it
              makes no sense my camera making much longer exposures for the sake of a
              lower noise.

              Did I get it all wrong?

              - Fabio

              Em 02/08/2011 08:51, Mark D. Fink escreveu:
              > Hi Fabio,
              >
              > I would point them to this recent article in Luminous Landscape:
              >
              > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml
              >
              > Thanks for passing this along!
              >
              > Mark
              >
              > www.northernlight.net
              > www.virtual-travels.com
              > www.pinnacle-vr.com
              >> -----Original Message-----
              >> From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
              [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ]
              On
              >> Behalf Of Fabio Bustamante
              >> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:12 PM
              >> To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Ideas for next cameras
              >>
              >> Hi everyone, how are you doing?
              >>
              >> Recently I was contacted by a brazilian consulting company that wanned
              >> to talk to photographers. It turns out they were working together with
              >> Nomura Research Institute (http://www.nri.co.jp/english/) a consulting
              >> company doing some research for Japanese companies related to
              >> professional photography - he mentioned Canon and Nikon.
              >>
              >> We talked today (with the help of a translator for the guy from NRI
              >> spoke japanese) and although they were interested in the particularities
              >> of the brazilian market, we also talked about equipment, and among other
              >> things they asked what kind of features I missed on my DSLR.
              >>
              >> I listed a few things that I miss the most (I mentioned better
              >> bracketing programming and full featured wireless remote control), but I
              >> also mentioned this group and that I would ask the question here too. So
              >> those of you who don't mind, feel free to share your thoughts and
              >> suggestions and I'll compile a list and send to them.
              >>
              >> I have no idea of what may come out of it, but at least I think there's
              >> a good chance that our ideas and requests will reach the right people
              >> inside camera manufacturers.
              >>
              >> Regards,
              >>
              >> Fabio.
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> --
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Sacha Griffin
              Though the article does mention without clipping I think it s still bunk. You expose for the tonality you are trying to achieve - the result, not some
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 2, 2011
                Though the article does mention "without clipping" I think it's still bunk.

                You expose for the tonality you are trying to achieve - the result, not some
                semi-mathematical system.

                In that nature, everyone should dial their cameras to manual and hot glue it
                there.

                J







                From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Fabio Bustamante
                Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 10:24 PM
                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Ideas for next cameras





                Mark, thanks for your link. That's an interesting theory... but I'm not
                sure about it's practical application.

                Exposing To The Right usually means longer exposure times (you don't
                want your DOF to be messed up by ETTR). Now, longer exposure times (in
                my photography) it's not exactly the kind of luxury I always have
                available. Many times I find myself on the edge of handheld shooting and
                even on a tripod, going from 1s to 3s for the sake of ETTR could easily
                introduce unwanted exagerated motion blur (from people, cars, trees,
                whatever). Usually in these situations we consciously exchange exposure
                times by noise by increasing ISO.

                In fact, if I have practical room for 2 stops of longer exposure for the
                ETTR, I could just go from ISO 400 to 100, which gives me a great
                improvement in noise as well. So the greatest application of ETTR would
                be in situations of medium to dark scenes, with medium to very low
                dynamic range, under ISO 100 and only if the user has room for 1 or 2
                stops of longer exposure without compromising the shot (otherwise the
                user will prefer higher noise).

                In real world my issues with noise happen in problematic, low light
                situations like shooting a party, a band show etc. In these situations I
                go for very high - and noisy - ISO exactly because I need practical
                exposure times. So even if the scene has a minimum dynamic range, it
                makes no sense my camera making much longer exposures for the sake of a
                lower noise.

                Did I get it all wrong?

                - Fabio

                Em 02/08/2011 08:51, Mark D. Fink escreveu:
                > Hi Fabio,
                >
                > I would point them to this recent article in Luminous Landscape:
                >
                > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml
                >
                > Thanks for passing this along!
                >
                > Mark
                >
                > www.northernlight.net
                > www.virtual-travels.com
                > www.pinnacle-vr.com
                >> -----Original Message-----
                >> From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                On
                >> Behalf Of Fabio Bustamante
                >> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:12 PM
                >> To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                >> Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Ideas for next cameras
                >>
                >> Hi everyone, how are you doing?
                >>
                >> Recently I was contacted by a brazilian consulting company that wanned
                >> to talk to photographers. It turns out they were working together with
                >> Nomura Research Institute (http://www.nri.co.jp/english/) a consulting
                >> company doing some research for Japanese companies related to
                >> professional photography - he mentioned Canon and Nikon.
                >>
                >> We talked today (with the help of a translator for the guy from NRI
                >> spoke japanese) and although they were interested in the particularities
                >> of the brazilian market, we also talked about equipment, and among other
                >> things they asked what kind of features I missed on my DSLR.
                >>
                >> I listed a few things that I miss the most (I mentioned better
                >> bracketing programming and full featured wireless remote control), but I
                >> also mentioned this group and that I would ask the question here too. So
                >> those of you who don't mind, feel free to share your thoughts and
                >> suggestions and I'll compile a list and send to them.
                >>
                >> I have no idea of what may come out of it, but at least I think there's
                >> a good chance that our ideas and requests will reach the right people
                >> inside camera manufacturers.
                >>
                >> Regards,
                >>
                >> Fabio.
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------------------
                >>
                >> --
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Erik Krause
                ... Sorry to disagree. The article is about how to get the biggest available dynamic range and provide best tonality. There are even ideas discussed how to
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 4, 2011
                  Am 03.08.2011 04:39, schrieb Sacha Griffin:
                  > Though the article does mention "without clipping" I think it's still bunk.
                  >
                  > You expose for the tonality you are trying to achieve - the result, not some
                  > semi-mathematical system.

                  Sorry to disagree. The article is about how to get the biggest available
                  dynamic range and provide best tonality. There are even ideas discussed
                  how to handle this transparently for the photographer, such that the
                  image looks "normal" by default.

                  Basically it describes a way how to store an image optimally, not how to
                  display it. Remeber, you can't view a raw image directly, you always
                  need to interpret it. The way this is done currently is suboptimal.

                  --
                  Erik Krause
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