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more privacy in public

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  • Jeffrey Martin
    you can read these in google translate http://www.wuv.de/nachrichten/digital/wirbel_um_facebook_tagging_beim_wdr
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 7, 2011
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      you can read these in google translate

      http://www.wuv.de/nachrichten/digital/wirbel_um_facebook_tagging_beim_wdr

      http://www.basicthinking.de/blog/2011/07/04/panoramabild-der-rheinkultur-auf-facebook-namen-der-festivalbesucher-offentlich/


      they are about this shoot i did last week
      http://www.wdr.de/themen/kultur/musik02/panoramafoto/index.php

      criticise the image if you want, but i stitched and put it online in 12
      HOURS. it is a composite of 3 panoramas shot at different focal lengths. so
      i'm well aware of all the technical shortcomings.... with that in mind the
      original deal was for a 180º pano, but i really don't like making anything
      less than a full sphere :-)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Hans
      ... I have been expecting this for along time and I am surprised it has not been taken up before. With all the gigapixel photos from Festivals and football or
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 7, 2011
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        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Martin <panoramas@...> wrote:
        >
        > you can read these in google translate
        >
        > http://www.wuv.de/nachrichten/digital/wirbel_um_facebook_tagging_beim_wdr
        >
        > http://www.basicthinking.de/blog/2011/07/04/panoramabild-der-rheinkultur-auf-facebook-namen-der-festivalbesucher-offentlich/
        >
        >
        > they are about this shoot i did last week
        > http://www.wdr.de/themen/kultur/musik02/panoramafoto/index.php
        >
        > criticise the image if you want, but i stitched and put it online in 12
        > HOURS. it is a composite of 3 panoramas shot at different focal lengths. so
        > i'm well aware of all the technical shortcomings.... with that in mind the
        > original deal was for a 180º pano, but i really don't like making anything
        > less than a full sphere :-)
        >


        I have been expecting this for along time and I am surprised it has not been taken up before.
        With all the gigapixel photos from Festivals and football or other events which has been published this had to come one day.

        All these places are private ground.
        A stadium is not a public place so anyone has the write to complain about it.
        I do not believe that telling people about it at the entrance or just before you shoot is enough. You should actually know it when you buy the ticket.

        I think in Denmark you can get it inside the rules for publishing images from important events which are bypassing the laws of privacy, for example my Royal Birthday panorama absolutely is within that. And I doubt that anyone who appears in it will complain that people can see that they was invited to her birthday.

        Hans
      • AYRTON
        COOL ... best AYRTON ... -- + 55 21 9982 6313 - RIO + 55 11 3717 5131 - SP http://ayrton360.com twitter.com/ayrton360 [Non-text portions of this message have
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 7, 2011
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          COOL

          :-)

          best
          AYRTON



          On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Jeffrey Martin <panoramas@...> wrote:

          > you can read these in google translate
          >
          > http://www.wuv.de/nachrichten/digital/wirbel_um_facebook_tagging_beim_wdr
          >
          >
          > http://www.basicthinking.de/blog/2011/07/04/panoramabild-der-rheinkultur-auf-facebook-namen-der-festivalbesucher-offentlich/
          >
          >
          > they are about this shoot i did last week
          > http://www.wdr.de/themen/kultur/musik02/panoramafoto/index.php
          >
          > criticise the image if you want, but i stitched and put it online in 12
          > HOURS. it is a composite of 3 panoramas shot at different focal lengths. so
          > i'm well aware of all the technical shortcomings.... with that in mind the
          > original deal was for a 180º pano, but i really don't like making anything
          > less than a full sphere :-)
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > --
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --

          + 55 21 9982 6313 - RIO
          + 55 11 3717 5131 - SP
          http://ayrton360.com
          twitter.com/ayrton360


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Trausti Hraunfjord
          Valid point Hans, but things are not quite that black and white. If a private company organizes a concert or a football game or whatever, that organizer may
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 8, 2011
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            Valid point Hans, but things are not quite that black and white.

            If a private company organizes a concert or a football game or whatever,
            that organizer may -or may not- inform people that a part of the program is
            "a guy with a camera taking pictures". If they do properly announce that,
            those who attend, would understand... or at least accept (if they buy a
            ticket for the event). But what if one of the audience, a private person
            pulls out a camera phone or a camera and takes pictures of others around
            him, and uploads the images to some shady website? How can that be
            regulated or prevented or ???

            It can't be, without seriously infringing on people's private lives.
            Everyone would have to be subject to a body search before entering, to
            prevent them from having any way or form for shooting pictures. The event
            organizer would have to inform people of how many people with a camera there
            would be, even what kind of camera... where the cameras would be located
            etc. etc. etc.

            If I invite people to my private home (private property) I don't feel any
            urge or need or wish to get the accept of my guests that I might take some
            pictures... or video... It is my home, my place, and I do as I want,
            without having to ask strangers for permission.

            The over-regulation and nanny state mentality of modern day governments is
            plain sickening. It is as if people shouldn't be put through the "horror"
            of being seen... I remember well from my time in Denmark how everything
            (literally) had to be sanctioned by the authorities... even a simple thing
            as dividing one's own living-room with a wall (be that of paper, cloth,
            bricks, wood or any other material) needs an official approval. Yes, in
            one's own private home. Rainwater is the property of the state and can not
            be used for watering plants or flushing toilets or anything else, without
            proper permissions (and payments). Over regulation, over protection and
            general wimp mentality is the dish of the day in the "civilized world"... in
            my opinion.

            If people want to stay out of public view, they should put a bag over their
            heads and be done with it. Other citizens shouldn't be
            bothered/inconvenienced because of "exposure-fear" of those who are clearly
            not fit to live amongst other people.

            Rant over.... but those things will only get worse with time.

            Trausti



            On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Hans <hans@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Martin <panoramas@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > you can read these in google translate
            > >
            > >
            > http://www.wuv.de/nachrichten/digital/wirbel_um_facebook_tagging_beim_wdr
            > >
            > >
            > http://www.basicthinking.de/blog/2011/07/04/panoramabild-der-rheinkultur-auf-facebook-namen-der-festivalbesucher-offentlich/
            > >
            > >
            > > they are about this shoot i did last week
            > > http://www.wdr.de/themen/kultur/musik02/panoramafoto/index.php
            > >
            > > criticise the image if you want, but i stitched and put it online in 12
            > > HOURS. it is a composite of 3 panoramas shot at different focal lengths.
            > so
            > > i'm well aware of all the technical shortcomings.... with that in mind
            > the
            > > original deal was for a 180�� pano, but i really don't like making
            > anything
            >
            > > less than a full sphere :-)
            > >
            >
            > I have been expecting this for along time and I am surprised it has not
            > been taken up before.
            > With all the gigapixel photos from Festivals and football or other events
            > which has been published this had to come one day.
            >
            > All these places are private ground.
            > A stadium is not a public place so anyone has the write to complain about
            > it.
            > I do not believe that telling people about it at the entrance or just
            > before you shoot is enough. You should actually know it when you buy the
            > ticket.
            >
            > I think in Denmark you can get it inside the rules for publishing images
            > from important events which are bypassing the laws of privacy, for example
            > my Royal Birthday panorama absolutely is within that. And I doubt that
            > anyone who appears in it will complain that people can see that they was
            > invited to her birthday.
            >
            > Hans
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Carl von Einem
            That blog article on Basic Thinking is IMHO silly: the author tries to scandalize the fact that the gigapixel image can be used to identify faces of festival
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 8, 2011
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              That blog article on Basic Thinking is IMHO silly: the author tries to
              scandalize the fact that the gigapixel image can be used to identify
              faces of festival visitors and also that names are associated with
              several faces...

              This may be debatable but it's not clever to illustrate that issue with
              a zoomed in screenshot and by mentioning full names of half a dozen
              people in the article. Isn't that somehow contradictory?

              Carl

              Posted by: "Jeffrey Martin"
              > Date: Thu Jul 7, 2011 8:50 am ((PDT))
              >
              > <http://www.basicthinking.de/blog/2011/07/04/panoramabild-der-rheinkultur-auf-facebook-namen-der-festivalbesucher-offentlich/>
              >
            • mrjimbo
              Their is a Rock Group that is having gigapixel pano s done at their concerts..Then they set it up on line and your supposed to go in and find and identify
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 8, 2011
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                Their is a Rock Group that is having gigapixel pano's done at their concerts..Then they set it up on line and your supposed to go in and find and identify yourself..on it.. You can absolutly make out everyone in the stands .. The act of doing this brings attention to all at the event.. They, I understand, are getting sued huge... While many in the audience think it's great.. Their are apparently many that don't..

                jimbo
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Carl von Einem
                To: PanoTools NG List
                Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:06 AM
                Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: more privacy in public



                That blog article on Basic Thinking is IMHO silly: the author tries to
                scandalize the fact that the gigapixel image can be used to identify
                faces of festival visitors and also that names are associated with
                several faces...

                This may be debatable but it's not clever to illustrate that issue with
                a zoomed in screenshot and by mentioning full names of half a dozen
                people in the article. Isn't that somehow contradictory?

                Carl

                Posted by: "Jeffrey Martin"
                > Date: Thu Jul 7, 2011 8:50 am ((PDT))
                >
                > <http://www.basicthinking.de/blog/2011/07/04/panoramabild-der-rheinkultur-auf-facebook-namen-der-festivalbesucher-offentlich/>
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • dsoc01
                Could it be this group you were talking about? http://www.u2.com/gigapixelfancam/110213/957347-pieter-welgemoed More info http://gigapixelfancam.com/ Hype?
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 8, 2011
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                  Could it be this group you were talking about?
                  http://www.u2.com/gigapixelfancam/110213/957347-pieter-welgemoed

                  More info
                  http://gigapixelfancam.com/
                  Hype? Cool? Oh . .whatever!
                  But someone certainly did jump on this monetizing wagon quick!

                  Can we assume that there is no expectation of privacy in a "public" place? Of course, the rules of engagement are changing, and this expectation will vary from country to country, as we are now seeing.

                  ~ dano



                  At 8:32 AM -0600 7/8/11, mrjimbo wrote:
                  >Their is a Rock Group that is having gigapixel pano's done at their concerts..Then they set it up on line and your supposed to go in and find and identify yourself..on it.. You can absolutly make out everyone in the stands .. The act of doing this brings attention to all at the event.. They, I understand, are getting sued huge... While many in the audience think it's great.. Their are apparently many that don't..
                  >
                  >jimbo
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Carl von Einem
                  > To: PanoTools NG List
                  > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:06 AM
                  > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: more privacy in public
                  >
                  >That blog article on Basic Thinking is IMHO silly: the author tries to scandalize the fact that the gigapixel image can be used to identify faces of festival visitors and also that names are associated with several faces...
                  >
                  >This may be debatable but it's not clever to illustrate that issue with a zoomed in screenshot and by mentioning full names of half a dozen people in the article. Isn't that somehow contradictory?
                  >
                  > Carl
                  >
                  > Posted by: "Jeffrey Martin"
                  > > Date: Thu Jul 7, 2011 8:50 am ((PDT))
                  > >
                  > > <http://www.basicthinking.de/blog/2011/07/04/panoramabild-der-rheinkultur-auf-facebook-namen-der-festivalbesucher-offentlic/>
                • mrjimbo
                  Yes it was U2 but I understand from the article I saw that they are not the only ones doing this.. The issue, according to the article, this process further
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 8, 2011
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                    Yes it was U2 but I understand from the article I saw that they are not the only ones doing this.. The issue, according to the article, this process further strips away a layer of privacy and anonymity but in instances could be used very adversely.. The logic is that it's use goes well beyond attending the event. It was even suggested that the viewer pays to attend the event and see the entertainers for but a few hours.. The other side of it is that the viewers are captured for all time right wrong or indifferent and did not offer approval nor were compensated for this regardless of it's final use.... Even newspaper are liable ...this process seems to circumvent that.. Further .. While many say it ( U2 concert) is a public event.. that is actually not true.. It is an event only for those that paid the money to attend so thus not really a public event and in their case none signed up or did releases to be photographed. The concept and meaning of the word public is now being scrutinized and challenged. This is actually a very very complex issue I think.. At it's base level it's about human rights but beyond that it goes much deeper.. Most on this group are serious dedicated photographers .. with goals and a purpose.. etc etc.. Most of what those here do pose little issue.. I think... I mean what harm does a scenic vista do.. but at major events whether a public or private group the question is do the attendees have the right to some level of privacy about what they do.. Each of you here has secrets.. we all do.. things that are more private then public.. things that are personal and maybe we just don't want to share with the rest of the world.. No one is really exempt from this reality.. Not me and certainly not any of you.. Think about who we are.. Do humans always tell the truth..Hell no.. Johnny skipped school so he could attend a once in a life time U2 concert.. His parents would kill him if they found out.. Not to mention the issue of where he got the 180.00 for the ticket.. It's all part of who we truly are.. We are not a society that is based on truth , honesty and all that stuff. So I suggest that we need to respect the difficulty of all this.. cause it just real..

                    Here's one for you.. It's about is the glass half full or half empty.. Bostjan.. I really hope you read this.. I have looked at your work. it's great.. I understand your frustrations.. I suggest that you sir are, if you choose too be, in the space of an incredible opportunity.. I'm in the USA .,. while I think I have a lot of rights .. in truth I really don't.. Most of the foundation rights have been stripped away.. In your country right now they are confused . The human rights in this are are still intact.. So are you hindered or are you blessed.. Here's a secret for you.. the secret of success for you does not live in fighting them.. nope.. it's in educating them.. and understanding what their afraid of.. They are afraid.. not really crazy as many here have suggested.. Honor their fear and educate them.. You will find a middle ground ..maybe not to the limits that you aspire from your present focus but one that allows the retention of some level of human rights and dignity which has a different level of greatness. What might that do for you? Well sir.. the world is full of takers.. move over a few feet and continue walking.. show respect and it will come back.. go the extra mile to tell and show them you really do care.. You could very well end up teaching us all..

                    I guess I sort of need to apologize to many here.. I have been watching this and of course Bostjan's thread... Oddly I found it difficult to read.. it was emotional.. I in no way want to offend anyone for what I've said above .. I guess I must realize that we are all different.. I like my images given to me.. that may not make much sense .. but that's my space.. I also understand that were not all that way.. maybe we just simply don't think.. In Bostjan's thread several were sympathetic understanding.. (another way to say neutral maybe). I think only one shooter/poster mentioned the concept of posting signs such that the crowd could make choice if they wanted to be in the image.. Only one.. I found that kinda scary.. sorry.. Is that all we are is takers? I would like very much to think not..

                    By the way this has been an incredible thread.. makes us think.. Sorry for my post's length .. I got kinda stuck on this one..

                    jimbo


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: dsoc01
                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:58 AM
                    Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: more privacy in public



                    Could it be this group you were talking about?
                    http://www.u2.com/gigapixelfancam/110213/957347-pieter-welgemoed

                    More info
                    http://gigapixelfancam.com/
                    Hype? Cool? Oh . .whatever!
                    But someone certainly did jump on this monetizing wagon quick!

                    Can we assume that there is no expectation of privacy in a "public" place? Of course, the rules of engagement are changing, and this expectation will vary from country to country, as we are now seeing.

                    ~ dano

                    At 8:32 AM -0600 7/8/11, mrjimbo wrote:
                    >Their is a Rock Group that is having gigapixel pano's done at their concerts..Then they set it up on line and your supposed to go in and find and identify yourself..on it.. You can absolutly make out everyone in the stands .. The act of doing this brings attention to all at the event.. They, I understand, are getting sued huge... While many in the audience think it's great.. Their are apparently many that don't..
                    >
                    >jimbo
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Carl von Einem
                    > To: PanoTools NG List
                    > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:06 AM
                    > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: more privacy in public
                    >
                    >That blog article on Basic Thinking is IMHO silly: the author tries to scandalize the fact that the gigapixel image can be used to identify faces of festival visitors and also that names are associated with several faces...
                    >
                    >This may be debatable but it's not clever to illustrate that issue with a zoomed in screenshot and by mentioning full names of half a dozen people in the article. Isn't that somehow contradictory?
                    >
                    > Carl
                    >
                    > Posted by: "Jeffrey Martin"
                    > > Date: Thu Jul 7, 2011 8:50 am ((PDT))
                    > >
                    > > <http://www.basicthinking.de/blog/2011/07/04/panoramabild-der-rheinkultur-auf-facebook-namen-der-festivalbesucher-offentlic/>





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Christian Bloch
                    There s one thing that puzzles me: It is completely voluntary to tag yourself on these panoramas. And if you get tagged by a friend without your agreement,
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 8, 2011
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                      There's one thing that puzzles me: It is completely voluntary to tag yourself on these panoramas. And if you get tagged by a friend without your agreement, then why don't you talk to your friend? My suspicion is, that the people that are complaining are the same people that willingly submit every snippet of personal information to facebook. And then they wonder what happened to their privacy. It's a very twisted way of thinking to make other responsible for your own carelessness.
                    • John Riley
                      ... I don t know the specifics on these gigapixels, but from what I understand regarding the tagging on Facebook, once you have been tagged in photos, facial
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 8, 2011
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                        On Jul 8, 2011, at 7:05 PM, Christian Bloch wrote:

                        > There's one thing that puzzles me: It is completely voluntary to tag yourself on these panoramas. And if you get tagged by a friend without your agreement, then why don't you talk to your friend? My suspicion is, that the people that are complaining are the same people that willingly submit every snippet of personal information to facebook. And then they wonder what happened to their privacy. It's a very twisted way of thinking to make other responsible for your own carelessness.
                        >
                        >


                        I don't know the specifics on these gigapixels, but from what I understand regarding the tagging on Facebook, once you have been tagged in photos, facial recognition software identifies you in other photos in anyone's account. You could be tagged without even knowing it or knowing by whom and suddenly be tagged in all sorts of photos on Facebook. There seems to be some controversy at the moment over how this will actually be handled in terms of privacy. Even if you could disallow tagged photos identifying you outside of specific accounts, you would still be in the Facebook tagging database. It is not a stretch AT ALL to imagine the TSA/FBI/CIA in the US demanding secret access to this information to track your activities. Civil liberties and freedom are in large part considered a quaint anachronism here. All the government has to do is wave the "terrorism" flag and they get green-lighted to do whatever they want, legal or illegal, with retroactive immunization for breaking laws.

                        John

                        John Riley
                        4Pi-VR Media Solutions
                        http://4pi-vr.com
                        johnriley@...
                        (h)864-461-3504
                        (c)864-431-7075
                        (w)864-503-5775



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Isaac Garcia
                        I was going to respond exactly what Trausti wrote, so I won´t anymore ;) On the other hand, about the dubiousness of the public/private status of venues such
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 9, 2011
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                          I was going to respond exactly what Trausti wrote, so I won´t anymore ;)

                          On the other hand, about the dubiousness of the public/private status of
                          venues such a concert/event of this type (and more or less responding to
                          Jimbo)... I´ve yet to see any concert where they make you sign a model
                          release in case you happen to appear on the stills/video made at the event
                          and are later used for publication or promo or the sale of the video
                          (regardless of the physical media, tape, dvd, whatever) of the
                          concert/event. If anything, there is a disclaimer on the tickets in which
                          you agree to waiver those rights to the organizers.

                          And trust me, I´ve dilated experience in this type of events or even more
                          "private" ones.

                          Cheers, Isaac.


                          On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 4:26 AM, John Riley <johnriley@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > On Jul 8, 2011, at 7:05 PM, Christian Bloch wrote:
                          >
                          > > There's one thing that puzzles me: It is completely voluntary to tag
                          > yourself on these panoramas. And if you get tagged by a friend without your
                          > agreement, then why don't you talk to your friend? My suspicion is, that the
                          > people that are complaining are the same people that willingly submit every
                          > snippet of personal information to facebook. And then they wonder what
                          > happened to their privacy. It's a very twisted way of thinking to make other
                          > responsible for your own carelessness.
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > I don't know the specifics on these gigapixels, but from what I understand
                          > regarding the tagging on Facebook, once you have been tagged in photos,
                          > facial recognition software identifies you in other photos in anyone's
                          > account. You could be tagged without even knowing it or knowing by whom and
                          > suddenly be tagged in all sorts of photos on Facebook. There seems to be
                          > some controversy at the moment over how this will actually be handled in
                          > terms of privacy. Even if you could disallow tagged photos identifying you
                          > outside of specific accounts, you would still be in the Facebook tagging
                          > database. It is not a stretch AT ALL to imagine the TSA/FBI/CIA in the US
                          > demanding secret access to this information to track your activities. Civil
                          > liberties and freedom are in large part considered a quaint anachronism
                          > here. All the government has to do is wave the "terrorism" flag and they
                          > get green-lighted to do whatever they want, legal or illegal, with
                          > retroactive immunization for breaking laws.
                          >
                          > John
                          >
                          > John Riley
                          > 4Pi-VR Media Solutions
                          > http://4pi-vr.com
                          > johnriley@...
                          > (h)864-461-3504
                          > (c)864-431-7075
                          > (w)864-503-5775
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > --
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          --
                          Isaac García

                          http://www.coletassoft.com
                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/coletassoft
                          http://www.facebook.com/coletassoft
                          http://twitter.com/coletassoft
                          http://coletassoft.tumblr.com/
                          http://coletassoft.deviantART.com

                          JFGI | RTFM


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Erik Krause
                          ... Well, in germany this is covered by the Gesetz betreffend das Urheberrecht an Werken der bildenden Künste und der Photographie §22 tellst that
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 9, 2011
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                            Am 07.07.2011 18:10, schrieb Hans:
                            > I have been expecting this for along time and I am surprised it has
                            > not been taken up before. With all the gigapixel photos from
                            > Festivals and football or other events which has been published this
                            > had to come one day.

                            Well, in germany this is covered by the "Gesetz betreffend das
                            Urheberrecht an Werken der bildenden Künste und der Photographie"
                            §22 tellst that portraits can only be taken with permission.
                            §23 defines the exceptions from §22. It gives among other exceptions:
                            "Bilder von Versammlungen, Aufzügen und ähnlichen Vorgängen, an denen
                            die dargestellten Personen teilgenommen haben;"

                            Translated: "Images from meetings, gatherings, parades and other similar
                            activities where the shown persons have participated."

                            (From http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recht_am_eigenen_Bild )

                            --
                            Erik Krause
                            http://www.erik-krause.de
                          • prague
                            Sorry but I absolutely don t see the issue. read the back of your ticket sometime. you re giving permission for all kinds of stuff. for years you go to a
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 12, 2011
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                              Sorry but I absolutely don't see the issue.

                              read the back of your ticket sometime. you're giving permission for all kinds of stuff.

                              for years you go to a game/concert and you grant the right to be shown on TV etc.

                              this is no different IMO.

                              if you don't want to be seen in public, then don't go out in public...


                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Yes it was U2 but I understand from the article I saw that they are not the only ones doing this.. The issue, according to the article, this process further strips away a layer of privacy and anonymity but in instances could be used very adversely.. The logic is that it's use goes well beyond attending the event. It was even suggested that the viewer pays to attend the event and see the entertainers for but a few hours.. The other side of it is that the viewers are captured for all time right wrong or indifferent and did not offer approval nor were compensated for this regardless of it's final use.... Even newspaper are liable ...this process seems to circumvent that.. Further .. While many say it ( U2 concert) is a public event.. that is actually not true.. It is an event only for those that paid the money to attend so thus not really a public event and in their case none signed up or did releases to be photographed. The concept and meaning of the word public is now being scrutinized and challenged. This is actually a very very complex issue I think.. At it's base level it's about human rights but beyond that it goes much deeper.. Most on this group are serious dedicated photographers .. with goals and a purpose.. etc etc.. Most of what those here do pose little issue.. I think... I mean what harm does a scenic vista do.. but at major events whether a public or private group the question is do the attendees have the right to some level of privacy about what they do.. Each of you here has secrets.. we all do.. things that are more private then public.. things that are personal and maybe we just don't want to share with the rest of the world.. No one is really exempt from this reality.. Not me and certainly not any of you.. Think about who we are.. Do humans always tell the truth..Hell no.. Johnny skipped school so he could attend a once in a life time U2 concert.. His parents would kill him if they found out.. Not to mention the issue of where he got the 180.00 for the ticket.. It's all part of who we truly are.. We are not a society that is based on truth , honesty and all that stuff. So I suggest that we need to respect the difficulty of all this.. cause it just real..
                              >
                              > Here's one for you.. It's about is the glass half full or half empty.. Bostjan.. I really hope you read this.. I have looked at your work. it's great.. I understand your frustrations.. I suggest that you sir are, if you choose too be, in the space of an incredible opportunity.. I'm in the USA .,. while I think I have a lot of rights .. in truth I really don't.. Most of the foundation rights have been stripped away.. In your country right now they are confused . The human rights in this are are still intact.. So are you hindered or are you blessed.. Here's a secret for you.. the secret of success for you does not live in fighting them.. nope.. it's in educating them.. and understanding what their afraid of.. They are afraid.. not really crazy as many here have suggested.. Honor their fear and educate them.. You will find a middle ground ..maybe not to the limits that you aspire from your present focus but one that allows the retention of some level of human rights and dignity which has a different level of greatness. What might that do for you? Well sir.. the world is full of takers.. move over a few feet and continue walking.. show respect and it will come back.. go the extra mile to tell and show them you really do care.. You could very well end up teaching us all..
                              >
                              > I guess I sort of need to apologize to many here.. I have been watching this and of course Bostjan's thread... Oddly I found it difficult to read.. it was emotional.. I in no way want to offend anyone for what I've said above .. I guess I must realize that we are all different.. I like my images given to me.. that may not make much sense .. but that's my space.. I also understand that were not all that way.. maybe we just simply don't think.. In Bostjan's thread several were sympathetic understanding.. (another way to say neutral maybe). I think only one shooter/poster mentioned the concept of posting signs such that the crowd could make choice if they wanted to be in the image.. Only one.. I found that kinda scary.. sorry.. Is that all we are is takers? I would like very much to think not..
                              >
                              > By the way this has been an incredible thread.. makes us think.. Sorry for my post's length .. I got kinda stuck on this one..
                              >
                              > jimbo
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: dsoc01
                              > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:58 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: more privacy in public
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Could it be this group you were talking about?
                              > http://www.u2.com/gigapixelfancam/110213/957347-pieter-welgemoed
                              >
                              > More info
                              > http://gigapixelfancam.com/
                              > Hype? Cool? Oh . .whatever!
                              > But someone certainly did jump on this monetizing wagon quick!
                              >
                              > Can we assume that there is no expectation of privacy in a "public" place? Of course, the rules of engagement are changing, and this expectation will vary from country to country, as we are now seeing.
                              >
                              > ~ dano
                              >
                              > At 8:32 AM -0600 7/8/11, mrjimbo wrote:
                              > >Their is a Rock Group that is having gigapixel pano's done at their concerts..Then they set it up on line and your supposed to go in and find and identify yourself..on it.. You can absolutly make out everyone in the stands .. The act of doing this brings attention to all at the event.. They, I understand, are getting sued huge... While many in the audience think it's great.. Their are apparently many that don't..
                              > >
                              > >jimbo
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: Carl von Einem
                              > > To: PanoTools NG List
                              > > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:06 AM
                              > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: more privacy in public
                              > >
                              > >That blog article on Basic Thinking is IMHO silly: the author tries to scandalize the fact that the gigapixel image can be used to identify faces of festival visitors and also that names are associated with several faces...
                              > >
                              > >This may be debatable but it's not clever to illustrate that issue with a zoomed in screenshot and by mentioning full names of half a dozen people in the article. Isn't that somehow contradictory?
                              > >
                              > > Carl
                              > >
                              > > Posted by: "Jeffrey Martin"
                              > > > Date: Thu Jul 7, 2011 8:50 am ((PDT))
                              > > >
                              > > > <http://www.basicthinking.de/blog/2011/07/04/panoramabild-der-rheinkultur-auf-facebook-namen-der-festivalbesucher-offentlic/>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • mrjimbo
                              hmmm very interesting.. I just went in my souvenir drawer and pulled out two tickets for concerts ..one was a Garth Brooks concert..Odd ..nothing was printed
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 12, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                hmmm very interesting.. I just went in my souvenir drawer and pulled out two tickets for concerts ..one was a Garth Brooks concert..Odd ..nothing was printed on the back at all of either..

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: prague
                                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 6:51 AM
                                Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: more privacy in public




                                Sorry but I absolutely don't see the issue.

                                read the back of your ticket sometime. you're giving permission for all kinds of stuff.

                                for years you go to a game/concert and you grant the right to be shown on TV etc.

                                this is no different IMO.

                                if you don't want to be seen in public, then don't go out in public...

                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Yes it was U2 but I understand from the article I saw that they are not the only ones doing this.. The issue, according to the article, this process further strips away a layer of privacy and anonymity but in instances could be used very adversely.. The logic is that it's use goes well beyond attending the event. It was even suggested that the viewer pays to attend the event and see the entertainers for but a few hours.. The other side of it is that the viewers are captured for all time right wrong or indifferent and did not offer approval nor were compensated for this regardless of it's final use.... Even newspaper are liable ...this process seems to circumvent that.. Further .. While many say it ( U2 concert) is a public event.. that is actually not true.. It is an event only for those that paid the money to attend so thus not really a public event and in their case none signed up or did releases to be photographed. The concept and meaning of the word public is now being scrutinized and challenged. This is actually a very very complex issue I think.. At it's base level it's about human rights but beyond that it goes much deeper.. Most on this group are serious dedicated photographers .. with goals and a purpose.. etc etc.. Most of what those here do pose little issue.. I think... I mean what harm does a scenic vista do.. but at major events whether a public or private group the question is do the attendees have the right to some level of privacy about what they do.. Each of you here has secrets.. we all do.. things that are more private then public.. things that are personal and maybe we just don't want to share with the rest of the world.. No one is really exempt from this reality.. Not me and certainly not any of you.. Think about who we are.. Do humans always tell the truth..Hell no.. Johnny skipped school so he could attend a once in a life time U2 concert.. His parents would kill him if they found out.. Not to mention the issue of where he got the 180.00 for the ticket.. It's all part of who we truly are.. We are not a society that is based on truth , honesty and all that stuff. So I suggest that we need to respect the difficulty of all this.. cause it just real..
                                >
                                > Here's one for you.. It's about is the glass half full or half empty.. Bostjan.. I really hope you read this.. I have looked at your work. it's great.. I understand your frustrations.. I suggest that you sir are, if you choose too be, in the space of an incredible opportunity.. I'm in the USA .,. while I think I have a lot of rights .. in truth I really don't.. Most of the foundation rights have been stripped away.. In your country right now they are confused . The human rights in this are are still intact.. So are you hindered or are you blessed.. Here's a secret for you.. the secret of success for you does not live in fighting them.. nope.. it's in educating them.. and understanding what their afraid of.. They are afraid.. not really crazy as many here have suggested.. Honor their fear and educate them.. You will find a middle ground ..maybe not to the limits that you aspire from your present focus but one that allows the retention of some level of human rights and dignity which has a different level of greatness. What might that do for you? Well sir.. the world is full of takers.. move over a few feet and continue walking.. show respect and it will come back.. go the extra mile to tell and show them you really do care.. You could very well end up teaching us all..
                                >
                                > I guess I sort of need to apologize to many here.. I have been watching this and of course Bostjan's thread... Oddly I found it difficult to read.. it was emotional.. I in no way want to offend anyone for what I've said above .. I guess I must realize that we are all different.. I like my images given to me.. that may not make much sense .. but that's my space.. I also understand that were not all that way.. maybe we just simply don't think.. In Bostjan's thread several were sympathetic understanding.. (another way to say neutral maybe). I think only one shooter/poster mentioned the concept of posting signs such that the crowd could make choice if they wanted to be in the image.. Only one.. I found that kinda scary.. sorry.. Is that all we are is takers? I would like very much to think not..
                                >
                                > By the way this has been an incredible thread.. makes us think.. Sorry for my post's length .. I got kinda stuck on this one..
                                >
                                > jimbo
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: dsoc01
                                > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:58 AM
                                > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: more privacy in public
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Could it be this group you were talking about?
                                > http://www.u2.com/gigapixelfancam/110213/957347-pieter-welgemoed
                                >
                                > More info
                                > http://gigapixelfancam.com/
                                > Hype? Cool? Oh . .whatever!
                                > But someone certainly did jump on this monetizing wagon quick!
                                >
                                > Can we assume that there is no expectation of privacy in a "public" place? Of course, the rules of engagement are changing, and this expectation will vary from country to country, as we are now seeing.
                                >
                                > ~ dano
                                >
                                > At 8:32 AM -0600 7/8/11, mrjimbo wrote:
                                > >Their is a Rock Group that is having gigapixel pano's done at their concerts..Then they set it up on line and your supposed to go in and find and identify yourself..on it.. You can absolutly make out everyone in the stands .. The act of doing this brings attention to all at the event.. They, I understand, are getting sued huge... While many in the audience think it's great.. Their are apparently many that don't..
                                > >
                                > >jimbo
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: Carl von Einem
                                > > To: PanoTools NG List
                                > > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:06 AM
                                > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: more privacy in public
                                > >
                                > >That blog article on Basic Thinking is IMHO silly: the author tries to scandalize the fact that the gigapixel image can be used to identify faces of festival visitors and also that names are associated with several faces...
                                > >
                                > >This may be debatable but it's not clever to illustrate that issue with a zoomed in screenshot and by mentioning full names of half a dozen people in the article. Isn't that somehow contradictory?
                                > >
                                > > Carl
                                > >
                                > > Posted by: "Jeffrey Martin"
                                > > > Date: Thu Jul 7, 2011 8:50 am ((PDT))
                                > > >
                                > > > <http://www.basicthinking.de/blog/2011/07/04/panoramabild-der-rheinkultur-auf-facebook-namen-der-festivalbesucher-offentlic/>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >





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