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Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens

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  • Bostjan Burger
    I have been playing with the gigapans all over the country last few months and I am slowly increasing the size of gigapans, considering the optimisation of
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 25, 2011
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      I have been playing with the gigapans all over the country last few months and I am slowly increasing the size of gigapans, considering the optimisation of time of the production and the real need to document a specific geographical location. I am with 5 Gpix at the moment, that is a one day of work including the outdoor work. Still too much used time as I can do the 1.28 Gpix wih almost same visual resoult within a couple of hours. I am intending to refresh my hadware and now I am looking for a combo Epic+ Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens. I intend to order Samyang as Canon equvialent lense is too heavy fro the Epic (Am I right?). Is anyone familiar with that lense ( Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens ) ?

      Bostjan

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • hdrv
      Bostjan, I sometime use a 800 Samyang for birds shooting. Laste year I made a short face-to-face with an old 500 reflex Tamron and the actual 70-200 2,8 + 1,4
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 25, 2011
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        Bostjan,

        I sometime use a 800 Samyang for birds shooting.
        Laste year I made a short face-to-face with an old 500 reflex Tamron
        and the actual 70-200 2,8 + 1,4 converter Canon.
        See the center of images, at 100% size on this page
        http://www.Photoslareunion.com/Temporaires/TestSamyang/Minitest800mm.html
        You can also download full images.



        Romuald



        Le 25 juin 11 à 14:44, Bostjan Burger a écrit :

        > I have been playing with the gigapans all over the country last few
        > months and I am slowly increasing the size of gigapans, considering
        > the optimisation of time of the production and the real need to
        > document a specific geographical location. I am with 5 Gpix at the
        > moment, that is a one day of work including the outdoor work. Still
        > too much used time as I can do the 1.28 Gpix wih almost same visual
        > resoult within a couple of hours. I am intending to refresh my
        > hadware and now I am looking for a combo Epic+ Samyang 1000mm Mirror
        > Telephoto Lens. I intend to order Samyang as Canon equvialent lense
        > is too heavy fro the Epic (Am I right?). Is anyone familiar with
        > that lense ( Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens ) ?
        >
        > Bostjan
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > --
        >
        >
        >
      • hdrv
        just added the 800 mm images downscaled to the size of the others for a better comparison. same page. R
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 25, 2011
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          just added the 800 mm images downscaled to the size of the others for
          a better comparison.
          same page.

          R

          Le 25 juin 11 à 17:58, hdrv a écrit :

          > Bostjan,
          >
          > I sometime use a 800 Samyang for birds shooting.
          > Laste year I made a short face-to-face with an old 500 reflex Tamron
          > and the actual 70-200 2,8 + 1,4 converter Canon.
          > See the center of images, at 100% size on this page
          > http://www.Photoslareunion.com/Temporaires/TestSamyang/Minitest800mm.html
          > You can also download full images.
          >
          >
          >
          > Romuald
          >
          >
          >
          > Le 25 juin 11 à 14:44, Bostjan Burger a écrit :
          >
          >> I have been playing with the gigapans all over the country last few
          >> months and I am slowly increasing the size of gigapans, considering
          >> the optimisation of time of the production and the real need to
          >> document a specific geographical location. I am with 5 Gpix at the
          >> moment, that is a one day of work including the outdoor work. Still
          >> too much used time as I can do the 1.28 Gpix wih almost same visual
          >> resoult within a couple of hours. I am intending to refresh my
          >> hadware and now I am looking for a combo Epic+ Samyang 1000mm Mirror
          >> Telephoto Lens. I intend to order Samyang as Canon equvialent lense
          >> is too heavy fro the Epic (Am I right?). Is anyone familiar with
          >> that lense ( Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens ) ?
          >>
          >> Bostjan
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> --
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > --
          >
          >
          >
        • Sacha Griffin
          Very interesting. I upsized the same area from the 380mm version.. While the DOF is very different, it’s hard to say there’s any additional resolution
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 25, 2011
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            Very interesting.

            I upsized the same area from the 380mm version..

            While the DOF is very different, it’s hard to say there’s any additional
            resolution captured with the 800mm



            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of hdrv
            Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 11:25 AM
            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens





            just added the 800 mm images downscaled to the size of the others for
            a better comparison.
            same page.

            R

            Le 25 juin 11 à 17:58, hdrv a écrit :







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bostjan Burger
            Thanks Romuald. It seems that the image is quite soft. I had problems with the soft images when setting the iris to F22 to avoid the DOF problem when shooting
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 25, 2011
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              Thanks Romuald. It seems that the image is quite soft. I had problems with the soft images when setting the iris to F22 to avoid the DOF problem when shooting from the top of the tower and I want also a clear nearby objects.

              Bostjan


              ________________________________
              From: hdrv <vromuald@...>
              To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 3:58 PM
              Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens


               
              Bostjan,

              I sometime use a 800 Samyang for birds shooting.
              Laste year I made a short face-to-face with an old 500 reflex Tamron
              and the actual 70-200 2,8 + 1,4 converter Canon.
              See the center of images, at 100% size on this page
              http://www.Photoslareunion.com/Temporaires/TestSamyang/Minitest800mm.html
              You can also download full images.

              Romuald

              Le 25 juin 11 à 14:44, Bostjan Burger a écrit :

              > I have been playing with the gigapans all over the country last few
              > months and I am slowly increasing the size of gigapans, considering
              > the optimisation of time of the production and the real need to
              > document a specific geographical location. I am with 5 Gpix at the
              > moment, that is a one day of work including the outdoor work. Still
              > too much used time as I can do the 1.28 Gpix wih almost same visual
              > resoult within a couple of hours. I am intending to refresh my
              > hadware and now I am looking for a combo Epic+ Samyang 1000mm Mirror
              > Telephoto Lens. I intend to order Samyang as Canon equvialent lense
              > is too heavy fro the Epic (Am I right?). Is anyone familiar with
              > that lense ( Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens ) ?
              >
              > Bostjan
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > --
              >
              >
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bostjan Burger
              That is most probably very true. I tried some interiors of small churches with 105 mm lense to get the final resolution of 5GB. Even the iris was set to F22 it
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 25, 2011
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                That is most probably very true. I tried some interiors of small churches with 105 mm lense to get the final resolution of 5GB. Even the iris was set to F22 it was very hard to get the decent resoult. I got the beter final resolution with 85 mm and even 50 mm lense. Shooting gigapix. res. outside or in larger rooms is easier, at least to me

                Bostjan


                ________________________________
                From: Sacha Griffin <sachagriffin@...>
                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 5:36 PM
                Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens


                 
                Very interesting.

                I upsized the same area from the 380mm version..

                While the DOF is very different, it’s hard to say there’s any additional
                resolution captured with the 800mm

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • hdrv
                I m sure you know that those mirror lenses do not have any aperture setting. Generally it s between f8 and f11. Because of this aperture, it is dificult to
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 25, 2011
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                  I'm sure you know that those mirror lenses do not have any aperture
                  setting.
                  Generally it's between f8 and f11.
                  Because of this aperture, it is dificult to make manual focusing, the
                  image through wiewfinder is dark.
                  I have only made 2 2gpixel images but I can't imagine using something
                  longer than 400 mm and a prime lens.

                  Romuald


                  Le 25 juin 11 à 21:28, Bostjan Burger a écrit :

                  > Thanks Romuald. It seems that the image is quite soft. I had
                  > problems with the soft images when setting the iris to F22 to avoid
                  > the DOF problem when shooting from the top of the tower and I want
                  > also a clear nearby objects.
                  >
                  > Bostjan
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: hdrv <vromuald@...>
                  > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 3:58 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Bostjan,
                  >
                  > I sometime use a 800 Samyang for birds shooting.
                  > Laste year I made a short face-to-face with an old 500 reflex Tamron
                  > and the actual 70-200 2,8 + 1,4 converter Canon.
                  > See the center of images, at 100% size on this page
                  > http://www.Photoslareunion.com/Temporaires/TestSamyang/Minitest800mm.html
                  > You can also download full images.
                  >
                  > Romuald
                  >
                  > Le 25 juin 11 à 14:44, Bostjan Burger a écrit :
                  >
                  >> I have been playing with the gigapans all over the country last few
                  >> months and I am slowly increasing the size of gigapans, considering
                  >> the optimisation of time of the production and the real need to
                  >> document a specific geographical location. I am with 5 Gpix at the
                  >> moment, that is a one day of work including the outdoor work. Still
                  >> too much used time as I can do the 1.28 Gpix wih almost same visual
                  >> resoult within a couple of hours. I am intending to refresh my
                  >> hadware and now I am looking for a combo Epic+ Samyang 1000mm Mirror
                  >> Telephoto Lens. I intend to order Samyang as Canon equvialent lense
                  >> is too heavy fro the Epic (Am I right?). Is anyone familiar with
                  >> that lense ( Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens ) ?
                  >>
                  >> Bostjan
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------------------
                  >>
                  >> --
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • montana_jimbo
                  Bostjan, Once you start going past a lens sweet spot by stopping down to gain added depth of field you will start loosing apparent sharpness. So you ll get
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 25, 2011
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                    Bostjan,
                    Once you start going past a lens sweet spot by stopping down to gain added depth of field you will start loosing apparent sharpness. So you'll get softer images.. This is especially true in zooms including adding some distortion.
                    Mirror lens are fixed aperatures and the DOF is typically less. Personally I'm not a fan of mirrors primarily due to what I shoot and it's to easy to tell it was shot with a mirror and I feel their typically softer and notably harder to focus in adverse conditions, but to each their own.
                    To maximize everything one need to use the shortest lens they can assuming your ok with image size and use it in it's sweet spot.

                    jimbo

                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bostjan Burger <si_lander@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > That is most probably very true. I tried some interiors of small churches with 105 mm lense to get the final resolution of 5GB. Even the iris was set to F22 it was very hard to get the decent resoult. I got the beter final resolution with 85 mm and even 50 mm lense. Shooting gigapix. res. outside or in larger rooms is easier, at least to me
                    >
                    > Bostjan
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Sacha Griffin <sachagriffin@...>
                    > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 5:36 PM
                    > Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Very interesting.
                    >
                    > I upsized the same area from the 380mm version..
                    >
                    > While the DOF is very different, it’s hard to say there’s any additional
                    > resolution captured with the 800mm
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Bernhard Vogl
                    ...and: IMHO the sweet spot for gigapixels is already at ~300mm for general purpose shots (because of DOF, haze, handling etc.) Most probably you will
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 25, 2011
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                      ...and:
                      IMHO the "sweet spot" for gigapixels is already at ~300mm for "general purpose" shots (because of DOF, haze, handling etc.)
                      Most probably you will retrieve blurred and unsharp photos with longer lenses because:
                      - the lens is not good enough (especially the mirror lenses - I never found one which can compete with a prime lens)
                      - the tripod is not heavy enough (think in the range of a movie tripod with >15kg)
                      - the panorama mechanism can't handle the heavy load
                      - the DOF is ridiculous narrow: I experimented with a 500mm (*1,5 crop=750mm) mirror lens and even at a distance of ~6km the DOF was still an issue

                      Best regards & HTH
                      Bernhard

                      > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                      > Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von montana_jimbo
                      > Gesendet: Samstag, 25. Juni 2011 22:41
                      > An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      > Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Bostjan,
                      > Once you start going past a lens sweet spot by stopping down to gain added
                      > depth of field you will start loosing apparent sharpness. So you'll get softer
                      > images.. This is especially true in zooms including adding some distortion.
                      > Mirror lens are fixed aperatures and the DOF is typically less. Personally I'm
                      > not a fan of mirrors primarily due to what I shoot and it's to easy to tell it was
                      > shot with a mirror and I feel their typically softer and notably harder to focus
                      > in adverse conditions, but to each their own.
                      > To maximize everything one need to use the shortest lens they can assuming
                      > your ok with image size and use it in it's sweet spot.
                      >
                      > jimbo
                      >
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bostjan Burger <si_lander@...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > That is most probably very true. I tried some interiors of small
                      > > churches with 105 mm lense to get the final resolution of 5GB. Even
                      > > the iris was set to F22 it was very hard to get the decent resoult. I
                      > > got the beter final resolution with 85 mm and even 50 mm lense.
                      > > Shooting gigapix. res. outside or in larger rooms is easier, at least
                      > > to me
                      > >
                      > > Bostjan
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ________________________________
                      > > From: Sacha Griffin <sachagriffin@...>
                      > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 5:36 PM
                      > > Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Â
                      > > Very interesting.
                      > >
                      > > I upsized the same area from the 380mm version..
                      > >
                      > > While the DOF is very different, it’s hard to say there’s any
                      > > additional resolution captured with the 800mm
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                    • Erik Krause
                      ... If I read correctly this is a 500mm f/8 lens with a 2x tele converter. This effectively makes a 1000mm f/16 lens with very questionable optical properties.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 26, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Am 25.06.2011 12:44, schrieb Bostjan Burger:
                        > Is anyone familiar with that lense ( Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens ) ?

                        If I read correctly this is a 500mm f/8 lens with a 2x tele converter.
                        This effectively makes a 1000mm f/16 lens with very questionable optical
                        properties.

                        I have a russian MTO 1000mm f/10 lens and even this can hardly be
                        handled. Too much vibrations even on a very sturdy tripod, too little
                        DOF, too dark. It makes up a reasonable backyard telescope, but I'd
                        never use it for panoramas.

                        Even the few normal photos I took with it I discarded later because of
                        unsharpness, awful bokeh (donuts instead of round blots) an low
                        contrast. Focusing however is less of a problem with a live view camera
                        (it was much harder in analog film days).

                        However, my canon 100-400mm zoom lens makes much better images, it is
                        smaller and lighter, stabilized, much more versatile, can be used with
                        ordinary filters, stopped down and focuses automatically.

                        --
                        Erik Krause
                        http://www.erik-krause.de
                      • Bostjan Burger
                        I was asking for the quality just because it was temptating to try this Samyang lense as it is light. It seems that is a no-go. A friend of mine gave me a
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 26, 2011
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                          I was asking for the quality just because it was temptating to try this Samyang lense as it is light. It seems that is a no-go. A friend of mine gave me a short chance to try Canon 1200 mm lense. Even I first thought that he is intending to show me a kind of weapon - the lense is like bazooka (lol), the lense was with quite good optics. I have got the idea to make a panorama with that lense but what pano robot can handle such a weight? I know someone who made a robot head and he show it to me but I don't know how much weigh can it take. It is all just my playing with the hardware as I don't realy see the real value doing VRPs with such lense.

                          Bostjan


                          ________________________________
                          From: Erik Krause <erik.krause@...>
                          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 6:38 PM
                          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens

                          Am 25.06.2011 12:44, schrieb Bostjan Burger:
                          > Is anyone familiar with that lense ( Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens ) ?

                          If I read correctly this is a 500mm f/8 lens with a 2x tele converter.
                          This effectively makes a 1000mm f/16 lens with very questionable optical
                          properties.

                          I have a russian MTO 1000mm f/10 lens and even this can hardly be
                          handled. Too much vibrations even on a very sturdy tripod, too little
                          DOF, too dark. It makes up a reasonable backyard telescope, but I'd
                          never use it for panoramas.

                          Even the few normal photos I took with it I discarded later because of
                          unsharpness, awful bokeh (donuts instead of round blots) an low
                          contrast. Focusing however is less of a problem with a live view camera
                          (it was much harder in analog film days).

                          However, my canon 100-400mm zoom lens makes much better images, it is
                          smaller and lighter, stabilized, much more versatile, can be used with
                          ordinary filters, stopped down and focuses automatically.

                          --
                          Erik Krause
                          http://www.erik-krause.de


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • mrjimbo
                          Ok .. I m jumping in.. kinda nervous about it with all you pro s.. but here goes.. I ve shot the Canon 1200.... it s a 40lb monster.. awesome yes .. for pano s
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 26, 2011
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                            Ok .. I'm jumping in.. kinda nervous about it with all you pro's.. but here goes.. I've shot the Canon 1200.... it's a 40lb monster.. awesome yes .. for pano's ..when pigs fly.. Their are too many issues.. I was polite previously.. I am not a fan of mirror lenses.. Why? I've never sold an image off one.. not one!!! Ok .. constructively..I was and still am a wild life shooter and have beenfor many years....Have been at it for almost 40 years.. My world has gotten wider in the past several years.. So like many I'm adding on newer technologies.. pano's , hdr etc.. I love it all. Such wonder!!! So don't get fooled by my stated inexperience.. I'm pretty serious about all this as I've always been.. Just having more fun.. when I finally figured out that I had to let go of a bit of the old.

                            Ok so all that stuff being said.. from an optic standpoint and just being realistic a 400 mmm lens is maybe as far as one wants to go for the topic at hand unless you're doing a one off that has a major pay check to go with it... I'll confess to having an 800 5.6 which is just awesome.. but for Pano's.....come on that really pushing it..
                            My experience is that lenses seem to work at their best when doubled.. 24mm 50mm 100mm 200etc.. or close to it.. In the long lenses ..a 400 and 800 when done right are still some of the best optics on the planet ( Nikon & Canon).. The old Nikon manual focus 400 F3.5 is still supreme in the optics ... the birders lens of choice.. bar none...

                            The truth is that both Canon and Nikon are building production lenses today.. Canons 1200 is outside the box.. It's a custom lens.. that has the appropriate price tag. So I kinda think were dreaming about it here is... well.. kool but wasting our time..

                            Using a tele has it's advantages and it's disadvantages, When I shot the 1200 what came with it was a Kenyon Gyro system to hold it still. I now am the owner of a Kenyon Gyro (KS-8) .. one step down from what we used with the Canon lens.. but it's perfect for what were doing. I rented one twice and they applied the rental cost to the purchase so we finally went for it. All the new IS lenses really work great.. no kidding they do.. but if you have old glass an much of it it's tough to bump up in the current market of the past couple of years.. Thus ..the gyro.. so at least my product is still on a par..
                            As far as robots.. well what about a camera screen that allows you some points of reference for overlap.. it's a manual process that way but would surely save a few bucks over a fancy automated process and the associated equipment.. I guess if your running production all day then automated methods are more appropriate.. So I guess that means you can sell them cheaper ...right? (sorry).
                            Sorry maybe I'm ranting...

                            jimbo

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Bostjan Burger
                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 11:43 AM
                            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens



                            I was asking for the quality just because it was temptating to try this Samyang lense as it is light. It seems that is a no-go. A friend of mine gave me a short chance to try Canon 1200 mm lense. Even I first thought that he is intending to show me a kind of weapon - the lense is like bazooka (lol), the lense was with quite good optics. I have got the idea to make a panorama with that lense but what pano robot can handle such a weight? I know someone who made a robot head and he show it to me but I don't know how much weigh can it take. It is all just my playing with the hardware as I don't realy see the real value doing VRPs with such lense.

                            Bostjan

                            ________________________________
                            From: Erik Krause <erik.krause@...>
                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 6:38 PM
                            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens

                            Am 25.06.2011 12:44, schrieb Bostjan Burger:
                            > Is anyone familiar with that lense ( Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens ) ?

                            If I read correctly this is a 500mm f/8 lens with a 2x tele converter.
                            This effectively makes a 1000mm f/16 lens with very questionable optical
                            properties.

                            I have a russian MTO 1000mm f/10 lens and even this can hardly be
                            handled. Too much vibrations even on a very sturdy tripod, too little
                            DOF, too dark. It makes up a reasonable backyard telescope, but I'd
                            never use it for panoramas.

                            Even the few normal photos I took with it I discarded later because of
                            unsharpness, awful bokeh (donuts instead of round blots) an low
                            contrast. Focusing however is less of a problem with a live view camera
                            (it was much harder in analog film days).

                            However, my canon 100-400mm zoom lens makes much better images, it is
                            smaller and lighter, stabilized, much more versatile, can be used with
                            ordinary filters, stopped down and focuses automatically.

                            --
                            Erik Krause
                            http://www.erik-krause.de

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Erik Krause
                            ... Use a professional telescope instead. They are programmable and their tripod usually is sturdy enough:
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 26, 2011
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                              Am 26.06.2011 19:43, schrieb Bostjan Burger:
                              > A friend of mine gave me a short chance to try Canon 1200 mm lense.
                              > Even I first thought that he is intending to show me a kind of weapon
                              > - the lense is like bazooka (lol), the lense was with quite good
                              > optics. I have got the idea to make a panorama with that lense but
                              > what pano robot can handle such a weight?

                              Use a professional telescope instead. They are programmable and their
                              "tripod" usually is sturdy enough:
                              http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/100inchHooker.jpg

                              Well, seriously: There are programmable tripod mounts for such heavy
                              weights: f.e. http://www.meade.com/maxmount

                              --
                              Erik Krause
                              http://www.erik-krause.de
                            • mrjimbo
                              Respectfully no comparison between that glorified Canon 1200 and a telescope.. My short experience..... we used a Wimberly with a gyro and it was totally
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 26, 2011
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                                Respectfully no comparison between that glorified Canon 1200 and a
                                telescope.. My short experience..... we used a Wimberly with a gyro and it
                                was totally awesome. In my humble opinion for what that lens was built to
                                do.. No one has come close and I guess I should add I'm a Nikon shooter to
                                boot.. Realistically, however I think the thread is off target in this area
                                .. It's been a while but I think that lens only has a tad over 1degree angle
                                of view.. so I don't think it could be properly harnessed when all the dust
                                settled for our application.. Might be a new challenge maybe.. but
                                realistically if you toss atmospheric haze into the equation well it makes
                                it tougher..
                                That lens was designed for the Olympics.. ( Skiing events were the focus as
                                I recall) So they weren't shooting scenic vista's that were 10 mile
                                away..They were shooting a skier coming down a hill or off a lift at 300/500
                                yards.. (trap shooting) .. Anyway... and seriously.. Both Canon & Nikon's
                                800 5.6 are incredible lenses ..really they are.. Nikon no longer produces
                                theirs.. both have awesome optics.. realistically I doubt that either fit
                                into doing pano's except for a very special assignments or challenges....
                                and to me I still struggle with that..But hey.. what do I know..
                                I think what I would like to simply point out is that I think were all in a
                                state of change..more, better, cheaper etc etc..and maybe were a tad
                                confused not because of us sometimes) but because the reviewers don't shoot
                                straight.. so were confused.. The proof always lives in the image.. What's
                                fun about this group is that your all a group of inventors or technology
                                pushers.. I respect that .. You guys work so hard to raise the bar..
                                Ok so I'll be quite now..

                                jimbo


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Erik Krause" <erik.krause@...>
                                To: <PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 4:04 PM
                                Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens


                                > Am 26.06.2011 19:43, schrieb Bostjan Burger:
                                >> A friend of mine gave me a short chance to try Canon 1200 mm lense.
                                >> Even I first thought that he is intending to show me a kind of weapon
                                >> - the lense is like bazooka (lol), the lense was with quite good
                                >> optics. I have got the idea to make a panorama with that lense but
                                >> what pano robot can handle such a weight?
                                >
                                > Use a professional telescope instead. They are programmable and their
                                > "tripod" usually is sturdy enough:
                                > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/100inchHooker.jpg
                                >
                                > Well, seriously: There are programmable tripod mounts for such heavy
                                > weights: f.e. http://www.meade.com/maxmount
                                >
                                > --
                                > Erik Krause
                                > http://www.erik-krause.de
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > --
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • prague
                                maybe you could use live view :) it might take about 3 months to shoot a whole panorama though :)
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jun 27, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  maybe you could use live view :)

                                  it might take about 3 months to shoot a whole panorama though :)



                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, hdrv <vromuald@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I'm sure you know that those mirror lenses do not have any aperture
                                  > setting.
                                  > Generally it's between f8 and f11.
                                  > Because of this aperture, it is dificult to make manual focusing, the
                                  > image through wiewfinder is dark.
                                  > I have only made 2 2gpixel images but I can't imagine using something
                                  > longer than 400 mm and a prime lens.
                                  >
                                  > Romuald
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Le 25 juin 11 � 21:28, Bostjan Burger a �crit :
                                  >
                                  > > Thanks Romuald. It seems that the image is quite soft. I had
                                  > > problems with the soft images when setting the iris to F22 to avoid
                                  > > the DOF problem when shooting from the top of the tower and I want
                                  > > also a clear nearby objects.
                                  > >
                                  > > Bostjan
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ________________________________
                                  > > From: hdrv <vromuald@...>
                                  > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 3:58 PM
                                  > > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Bostjan,
                                  > >
                                  > > I sometime use a 800 Samyang for birds shooting.
                                  > > Laste year I made a short face-to-face with an old 500 reflex Tamron
                                  > > and the actual 70-200 2,8 + 1,4 converter Canon.
                                  > > See the center of images, at 100% size on this page
                                  > > http://www.Photoslareunion.com/Temporaires/TestSamyang/Minitest800mm.html
                                  > > You can also download full images.
                                  > >
                                  > > Romuald
                                  > >
                                  > > Le 25 juin 11 � 14:44, Bostjan Burger a �crit :
                                  > >
                                  > >> I have been playing with the gigapans all over the country last few
                                  > >> months and I am slowly increasing the size of gigapans, considering
                                  > >> the optimisation of time of the production and the real need to
                                  > >> document a specific geographical location. I am with 5 Gpix at the
                                  > >> moment, that is a one day of work including the outdoor work. Still
                                  > >> too much used time as I can do the 1.28 Gpix wih almost same visual
                                  > >> resoult within a couple of hours. I am intending to refresh my
                                  > >> hadware and now I am looking for a combo Epic+ Samyang 1000mm Mirror
                                  > >> Telephoto Lens. I intend to order Samyang as Canon equvialent lense
                                  > >> is too heavy fro the Epic (Am I right?). Is anyone familiar with
                                  > >> that lense ( Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens ) ?
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Bostjan
                                  > >>
                                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>
                                  > >> --
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > --
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • jefffreymartin
                                  Bernhard is usually right about everything ;) including this. 300mm is good. 400mm is a real pain. more than 400mm is probably just not worth the trouble. IMO
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jun 27, 2011
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                                    Bernhard is usually right about everything ;) including this.

                                    300mm is good. 400mm is a real pain. more than 400mm is probably just not worth the trouble.

                                    IMO 70-200mm is really optimum. they make nice lenses that are 70-200, luckily :)



                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Bernhard Vogl" <bvogl@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > ...and:
                                    > IMHO the "sweet spot" for gigapixels is already at ~300mm for "general purpose" shots (because of DOF, haze, handling etc.)
                                    > Most probably you will retrieve blurred and unsharp photos with longer lenses because:
                                    > - the lens is not good enough (especially the mirror lenses - I never found one which can compete with a prime lens)
                                    > - the tripod is not heavy enough (think in the range of a movie tripod with >15kg)
                                    > - the panorama mechanism can't handle the heavy load
                                    > - the DOF is ridiculous narrow: I experimented with a 500mm (*1,5 crop=750mm) mirror lens and even at a distance of ~6km the DOF was still an issue
                                    >
                                    > Best regards & HTH
                                    > Bernhard
                                    >
                                    > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                                    > > Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von montana_jimbo
                                    > > Gesendet: Samstag, 25. Juni 2011 22:41
                                    > > An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Bostjan,
                                    > > Once you start going past a lens sweet spot by stopping down to gain added
                                    > > depth of field you will start loosing apparent sharpness. So you'll get softer
                                    > > images.. This is especially true in zooms including adding some distortion.
                                    > > Mirror lens are fixed aperatures and the DOF is typically less. Personally I'm
                                    > > not a fan of mirrors primarily due to what I shoot and it's to easy to tell it was
                                    > > shot with a mirror and I feel their typically softer and notably harder to focus
                                    > > in adverse conditions, but to each their own.
                                    > > To maximize everything one need to use the shortest lens they can assuming
                                    > > your ok with image size and use it in it's sweet spot.
                                    > >
                                    > > jimbo
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bostjan Burger <si_lander@>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > That is most probably very true. I tried some interiors of small
                                    > > > churches with 105 mm lense to get the final resolution of 5GB. Even
                                    > > > the iris was set to F22 it was very hard to get the decent resoult. I
                                    > > > got the beter final resolution with 85 mm and even 50 mm lense.
                                    > > > Shooting gigapix. res. outside or in larger rooms is easier, at least
                                    > > > to me
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Bostjan
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ________________________________
                                    > > > From: Sacha Griffin <sachagriffin@>
                                    > > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 5:36 PM
                                    > > > Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Â
                                    > > > Very interesting.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I upsized the same area from the 380mm version..
                                    > > >
                                    > > > While the DOF is very different, it’s hard to say there’s any
                                    > > > additional resolution captured with the 800mm
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • John Riley
                                    ... For those of you who might think this description is an exaggeration, see: http://tinyurl.com/ridiculens Maybe a RODEON VR Station HD from Dr. Clauss or a
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jun 27, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      On Jun 26, 2011, at 1:43 PM, Bostjan Burger wrote:

                                      > A friend of mine gave me a short chance to try Canon 1200 mm lense. Even I first thought that he is intending to show me a kind of weapon - the lense is like bazooka (lol), the lense was with quite good optics.



                                      For those of you who might think this description is an exaggeration, see: http://tinyurl.com/ridiculens

                                      Maybe a RODEON VR Station HD from Dr. Clauss or a Seitz Roundshot VR Drive could handle that lens 8-) After paying around $100,000 for the lens, one of those heads would seem like a bargain at around $4000!

                                      John

                                      John Riley
                                      4Pi-VR Media Solutions
                                      http://4pi-vr.com
                                      johnriley@...
                                      (h)864-461-3504
                                      (c)864-431-7075
                                      (w)864-503-5775



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Bernhard Vogl
                                      Probably the best way comes from the Astro-photography (i m using that fort he mirror lens) - the Scheiner Disk or Hartmann Mask:
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jun 27, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Probably the best way comes from the Astro-photography (i'm using that fort
                                        he mirror lens) - the Scheiner Disk or Hartmann Mask:
                                        http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheinerblende

                                        Best regards
                                        Bernhard

                                        > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                                        > Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                        > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von prague
                                        > Gesendet: Montag, 27. Juni 2011 16:48
                                        > An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > maybe you could use live view :)
                                        >
                                        > it might take about 3 months to shoot a whole panorama though :)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, hdrv <vromuald@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > I'm sure you know that those mirror lenses do not have any aperture
                                        > > setting.
                                        > > Generally it's between f8 and f11.
                                        > > Because of this aperture, it is dificult to make manual focusing, the
                                        > > image through wiewfinder is dark.
                                        > > I have only made 2 2gpixel images but I can't imagine using something
                                        > > longer than 400 mm and a prime lens.
                                        > >
                                        > > Romuald
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Le 25 juin 11 � 21:28, Bostjan Burger a �crit :
                                        > >
                                        > > > Thanks Romuald. It seems that the image is quite soft. I had
                                        > > > problems with the soft images when setting the iris to F22 to avoid
                                        > > > the DOF problem when shooting from the top of the tower and I want
                                        > > > also a clear nearby objects.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Bostjan
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ________________________________
                                        > > > From: hdrv <vromuald@...>
                                        > > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 3:58 PM
                                        > > > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Bostjan,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I sometime use a 800 Samyang for birds shooting.
                                        > > > Laste year I made a short face-to-face with an old 500 reflex Tamron
                                        > > > and the actual 70-200 2,8 + 1,4 converter Canon.
                                        > > > See the center of images, at 100% size on this page
                                        > > >
                                        > http://www.Photoslareunion.com/Temporaires/TestSamyang/Minitest800m
                                        > m
                                        > > > .html
                                        > > > You can also download full images.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Romuald
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Le 25 juin 11 � 14:44, Bostjan Burger a �crit :
                                        > > >
                                        > > >> I have been playing with the gigapans all over the country last few
                                        > > >> months and I am slowly increasing the size of gigapans, considering
                                        > > >> the optimisation of time of the production and the real need to
                                        > > >> document a specific geographical location. I am with 5 Gpix at the
                                        > > >> moment, that is a one day of work including the outdoor work. Still
                                        > > >> too much used time as I can do the 1.28 Gpix wih almost same visual
                                        > > >> resoult within a couple of hours. I am intending to refresh my
                                        > > >> hadware and now I am looking for a combo Epic+ Samyang 1000mm
                                        > > >> Mirror Telephoto Lens. I intend to order Samyang as Canon
                                        > > >> equvialent lense is too heavy fro the Epic (Am I right?). Is anyone
                                        > > >> familiar with that lense ( Samyang 1000mm Mirror Telephoto Lens ) ?
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >> Bostjan
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >> ------------------------------------
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >> --
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >>
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ------------------------------------
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Erik Krause
                                        ... I didn t mean to compare the two. But a mount for a heavy telescope would most likely support a 1200mm lens as well... -- Erik Krause
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jun 27, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Am 27.06.2011 03:04, schrieb mrjimbo:
                                          > Respectfully no comparison between that glorified Canon 1200 and a
                                          > telescope.

                                          I didn't mean to compare the two. But a mount for a heavy telescope
                                          would most likely support a 1200mm lens as well...

                                          --
                                          Erik Krause
                                          http://www.erik-krause.de
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