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RE: [PanoToolsNG] Learned from the List

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  • Briar
    Amazing how quickly other peoples situation goes to the back of our minds. The international news no longer concentrates on the efforts of the brave folk who
    Message 1 of 9 , May 2, 2011
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      Amazing how quickly other peoples' situation goes to the back of our minds.
      The international news no longer concentrates on the efforts of the brave
      folk who still battle with the nuclear plants in your country. But thank
      goodness you still have somewhere like this to "rest and renew"



      My question, and admiration for your pan is how you manage to set it so
      there is no distortion when moving up or down. In most pans a building will
      "bend" towards the centre as you move higher up. In this everything remains
      vertical. How?



      Regards, Briar.



      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Roger D. Williams
      Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 10:10 p.m.
      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Learned from the List





      Life has been difficult in Japan recently, although mercifully my
      wife and I are far enough away from the disaster area to be only
      indirectly affected.

      We got back today from a couple of days at Hakone, a lakeside
      hot-springs resort in the caldera of a long-dead volcano. We
      were blessed with one day of Japan's rare blue skies, and I took
      a few panoramas. The next day we were caught in a cable car
      while a gale was blowing. That was less fun!

      As I was preparing one this afternoon I recalled much of what I
      have learned here on the list. Using vertical line control points
      to straighten the panorama. Using the panorama editor to roughly
      position recalcitrant shots. Using PTgui's detail viewer to
      move seams away from problem areas. Using pseudo HDR techniques
      to boost shadow detail. Correctly positioning the crop circle.
      Eliminating control points that are not at ground level when
      using perspective correction for the nadir shot... and from clouds
      in the zenith shot (and wherever else a cloud appears). The list
      goes on and on. Any one of these, if ignored, could have spoiled
      the panorama. So thank you, list members!

      I've put a 5MB equirectangular file in my public dropbox. The
      subject is a truly fascinating open-air museum that specializes
      in modern sculpture. Unfortunately the statues are rather far
      apart, so a panorama tends to show mostly distant views, but
      if you are interested, take a look.

      http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22568011/_Hakone_01_Compressed.jpg

      Taken with my Peleng 8mm and the cute little Pentax K-x on a
      monopod using a plastic ring mount made by Bo Sorensen.

      Roger W.

      --
      Business: www.adex-japan.com
      Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sacha Griffin
      It s a JPG photo; there is no program that is performing pitch adjustment on it when you scroll the photo to look down. You probably have not seen an original
      Message 2 of 9 , May 2, 2011
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        It's a JPG photo; there is no program that is performing pitch adjustment on
        it when you scroll the photo to look down.

        You probably have not seen an original equirectangular photo before. They
        are the standard container format for all spherical panoramic images before
        moving on to greener pastures as multi-resolution tiled cubical images.



        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Briar
        Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 3:48 PM
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Learned from the List





        Amazing how quickly other peoples' situation goes to the back of our minds.
        The international news no longer concentrates on the efforts of the brave
        folk who still battle with the nuclear plants in your country. But thank
        goodness you still have somewhere like this to "rest and renew"

        My question, and admiration for your pan is how you manage to set it so
        there is no distortion when moving up or down. In most pans a building will
        "bend" towards the centre as you move higher up. In this everything remains
        vertical. How?

        Regards, Briar.

        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ]
        On
        Behalf Of Roger D. Williams
        Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 10:10 p.m.
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Learned from the List

        Life has been difficult in Japan recently, although mercifully my
        wife and I are far enough away from the disaster area to be only
        indirectly affected.

        We got back today from a couple of days at Hakone, a lakeside
        hot-springs resort in the caldera of a long-dead volcano. We
        were blessed with one day of Japan's rare blue skies, and I took
        a few panoramas. The next day we were caught in a cable car
        while a gale was blowing. That was less fun!

        As I was preparing one this afternoon I recalled much of what I
        have learned here on the list. Using vertical line control points
        to straighten the panorama. Using the panorama editor to roughly
        position recalcitrant shots. Using PTgui's detail viewer to
        move seams away from problem areas. Using pseudo HDR techniques
        to boost shadow detail. Correctly positioning the crop circle.
        Eliminating control points that are not at ground level when
        using perspective correction for the nadir shot... and from clouds
        in the zenith shot (and wherever else a cloud appears). The list
        goes on and on. Any one of these, if ignored, could have spoiled
        the panorama. So thank you, list members!

        I've put a 5MB equirectangular file in my public dropbox. The
        subject is a truly fascinating open-air museum that specializes
        in modern sculpture. Unfortunately the statues are rather far
        apart, so a panorama tends to show mostly distant views, but
        if you are interested, take a look.

        http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22568011/_Hakone_01_Compressed.jpg

        Taken with my Peleng 8mm and the cute little Pentax K-x on a
        monopod using a plastic ring mount made by Bo Sorensen.

        Roger W.

        --
        Business: www.adex-japan.com
        Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Briar
        I downloaded it to my computer, then viewed it using Deval Player just as I would with my own pans. You are correct in that I have not tried multi-res pans
        Message 3 of 9 , May 2, 2011
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          I downloaded it to my computer, then viewed it using Deval Player just as I
          would with my own pans. You are correct in that I have not tried multi-res
          pans yet.



          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Sacha Griffin
          Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011 8:11 a.m.
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Learned from the List





          It's a JPG photo; there is no program that is performing pitch adjustment on
          it when you scroll the photo to look down.

          You probably have not seen an original equirectangular photo before. They
          are the standard container format for all spherical panoramic images before
          moving on to greener pastures as multi-resolution tiled cubical images.

          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
          [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ]
          On
          Behalf Of Briar
          Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 3:48 PM
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Learned from the List

          Amazing how quickly other peoples' situation goes to the back of our minds.
          The international news no longer concentrates on the efforts of the brave
          folk who still battle with the nuclear plants in your country. But thank
          goodness you still have somewhere like this to "rest and renew"

          My question, and admiration for your pan is how you manage to set it so
          there is no distortion when moving up or down. In most pans a building will
          "bend" towards the centre as you move higher up. In this everything remains
          vertical. How?

          Regards, Briar.

          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
          <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
          [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
          <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ]
          On
          Behalf Of Roger D. Williams
          Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 10:10 p.m.
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
          <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Learned from the List

          Life has been difficult in Japan recently, although mercifully my
          wife and I are far enough away from the disaster area to be only
          indirectly affected.

          We got back today from a couple of days at Hakone, a lakeside
          hot-springs resort in the caldera of a long-dead volcano. We
          were blessed with one day of Japan's rare blue skies, and I took
          a few panoramas. The next day we were caught in a cable car
          while a gale was blowing. That was less fun!

          As I was preparing one this afternoon I recalled much of what I
          have learned here on the list. Using vertical line control points
          to straighten the panorama. Using the panorama editor to roughly
          position recalcitrant shots. Using PTgui's detail viewer to
          move seams away from problem areas. Using pseudo HDR techniques
          to boost shadow detail. Correctly positioning the crop circle.
          Eliminating control points that are not at ground level when
          using perspective correction for the nadir shot... and from clouds
          in the zenith shot (and wherever else a cloud appears). The list
          goes on and on. Any one of these, if ignored, could have spoiled
          the panorama. So thank you, list members!

          I've put a 5MB equirectangular file in my public dropbox. The
          subject is a truly fascinating open-air museum that specializes
          in modern sculpture. Unfortunately the statues are rather far
          apart, so a panorama tends to show mostly distant views, but
          if you are interested, take a look.

          http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22568011/_Hakone_01_Compressed.jpg

          Taken with my Peleng 8mm and the cute little Pentax K-x on a
          monopod using a plastic ring mount made by Bo Sorensen.

          Roger W.

          --
          Business: www.adex-japan.com
          Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sacha Griffin
          I see. Then Roger isn t going to be able to control your deval player s choice of projection via any embedded xml data from his jpg image. That would be
          Message 4 of 9 , May 2, 2011
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            I see.

            Then Roger isn't going to be able to control your deval player's choice of
            projection via any embedded xml data from his jpg image.

            That would be interesting though.



            As to why, you'd have to contact the author of deval vr.

            Fiero.



            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Briar
            Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 4:17 PM
            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Learned from the List





            I downloaded it to my computer, then viewed it using Deval Player just as I
            would with my own pans. You are correct in that I have not tried multi-res
            pans yet.

            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ]
            On
            Behalf Of Sacha Griffin
            Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011 8:11 a.m.
            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Learned from the List

            It's a JPG photo; there is no program that is performing pitch adjustment on
            it when you scroll the photo to look down.

            You probably have not seen an original equirectangular photo before. They
            are the standard container format for all spherical panoramic images before
            moving on to greener pastures as multi-resolution tiled cubical images.

            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ]
            On
            Behalf Of Briar
            Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 3:48 PM
            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: RE: [PanoToolsNG] Learned from the List

            Amazing how quickly other peoples' situation goes to the back of our minds.
            The international news no longer concentrates on the efforts of the brave
            folk who still battle with the nuclear plants in your country. But thank
            goodness you still have somewhere like this to "rest and renew"

            My question, and admiration for your pan is how you manage to set it so
            there is no distortion when moving up or down. In most pans a building will
            "bend" towards the centre as you move higher up. In this everything remains
            vertical. How?

            Regards, Briar.

            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ]
            On
            Behalf Of Roger D. Williams
            Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 10:10 p.m.
            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Learned from the List

            Life has been difficult in Japan recently, although mercifully my
            wife and I are far enough away from the disaster area to be only
            indirectly affected.

            We got back today from a couple of days at Hakone, a lakeside
            hot-springs resort in the caldera of a long-dead volcano. We
            were blessed with one day of Japan's rare blue skies, and I took
            a few panoramas. The next day we were caught in a cable car
            while a gale was blowing. That was less fun!

            As I was preparing one this afternoon I recalled much of what I
            have learned here on the list. Using vertical line control points
            to straighten the panorama. Using the panorama editor to roughly
            position recalcitrant shots. Using PTgui's detail viewer to
            move seams away from problem areas. Using pseudo HDR techniques
            to boost shadow detail. Correctly positioning the crop circle.
            Eliminating control points that are not at ground level when
            using perspective correction for the nadir shot... and from clouds
            in the zenith shot (and wherever else a cloud appears). The list
            goes on and on. Any one of these, if ignored, could have spoiled
            the panorama. So thank you, list members!

            I've put a 5MB equirectangular file in my public dropbox. The
            subject is a truly fascinating open-air museum that specializes
            in modern sculpture. Unfortunately the statues are rather far
            apart, so a panorama tends to show mostly distant views, but
            if you are interested, take a look.

            http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22568011/_Hakone_01_Compressed.jpg

            Taken with my Peleng 8mm and the cute little Pentax K-x on a
            monopod using a plastic ring mount made by Bo Sorensen.

            Roger W.

            --
            Business: www.adex-japan.com
            Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Roger D. Williams
            ... Thanks for the feedback, Briar. Since I see from a later post that you use DevalVR, as I do, I am not sure what you mean about the bending of verticals.
            Message 5 of 9 , May 2, 2011
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              On Tue, 03 May 2011 04:48:15 +0900, Briar <briar_bentley@...> wrote:

              > Amazing how quickly other peoples' situation goes to the back of our
              > minds.
              > The international news no longer concentrates on the efforts of the brave
              > folk who still battle with the nuclear plants in your country. But thank
              > goodness you still have somewhere like this to "rest and renew"
              >
              >
              > My question, and admiration for your pan is how you manage to set it so
              > there is no distortion when moving up or down. In most pans a building
              > will
              > "bend" towards the centre as you move higher up. In this everything
              > remains
              > vertical. How?

              Thanks for the feedback, Briar. Since I see from a later post that you use
              DevalVR, as I do, I am not sure what you mean about the "bending" of
              verticals. I have only ever seen this once with DevalVR, when I used it
              to view a panorama taken with a rotary camera that generates cylindrical
              projections by default. If you are taking cylindrical panoramas, then
              DevalVR will normally default to treating them as spherical projections,
              and this bends the verticals as you near the top and bottom of the image.

              I haven't updated DevalVR recently, so it may well be coping properly
              with cylindrical projections by now. The author kindly provided me with
              a version that DID handle them properly, but I overwrote it with a later
              upgrade that lacked this ability and as I no longer generate cylindrical
              projections I haven't done anything about it.

              Other than that I can't think what might be responsible for "bending," as
              the verticals always remain straight even as they splay outwards on
              looking up (and cave inwards on looking down, of course).

              As a matter of interest, the vertical were very hard to get right on this
              panorama, as there are very few readily identifiable true verticals...
              and mostly on rather remote sculptures.

              Roger W.

              --
              Work: www.adex-japan.com
            • Ken Warner
              Roger, you are exactly right. Cylindrical images need a cylindrical projection. Most viewers use a gnomic projection assuming that the image they are
              Message 6 of 9 , May 2, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Roger, you are exactly right. Cylindrical images need a cylindrical
                projection. Most viewers use a gnomic projection assuming that the
                image they are projecting is a spherical image. A cylindrical image
                projected gnomically will have verticals that converge toward the poles.

                If DevalVR does handle cylindrical projections correctly, that would be a
                very good thing for architectural scenes.

                Roger D. Williams wrote:
                > On Tue, 03 May 2011 04:48:15 +0900, Briar <briar_bentley@...> wrote:
                >
                >> Amazing how quickly other peoples' situation goes to the back of our
                >> minds.
                >> The international news no longer concentrates on the efforts of the brave
                >> folk who still battle with the nuclear plants in your country. But thank
                >> goodness you still have somewhere like this to "rest and renew"
                >>
                >>
                >> My question, and admiration for your pan is how you manage to set it so
                >> there is no distortion when moving up or down. In most pans a building
                >> will
                >> "bend" towards the centre as you move higher up. In this everything
                >> remains
                >> vertical. How?
                >
                > Thanks for the feedback, Briar. Since I see from a later post that you use
                > DevalVR, as I do, I am not sure what you mean about the "bending" of
                > verticals. I have only ever seen this once with DevalVR, when I used it
                > to view a panorama taken with a rotary camera that generates cylindrical
                > projections by default. If you are taking cylindrical panoramas, then
                > DevalVR will normally default to treating them as spherical projections,
                > and this bends the verticals as you near the top and bottom of the image.
                >
                > I haven't updated DevalVR recently, so it may well be coping properly
                > with cylindrical projections by now. The author kindly provided me with
                > a version that DID handle them properly, but I overwrote it with a later
                > upgrade that lacked this ability and as I no longer generate cylindrical
                > projections I haven't done anything about it.
                >
                > Other than that I can't think what might be responsible for "bending," as
                > the verticals always remain straight even as they splay outwards on
                > looking up (and cave inwards on looking down, of course).
                >
                > As a matter of interest, the vertical were very hard to get right on this
                > panorama, as there are very few readily identifiable true verticals...
                > and mostly on rather remote sculptures.
                >
                > Roger W.
                >
              • Roger D. Williams
                On Tue, 03 May 2011 12:36:33 +0900, Ken Warner ... Yes, and there s a fairly easy (though not universally applicable) way of
                Message 7 of 9 , May 2, 2011
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                  On Tue, 03 May 2011 12:36:33 +0900, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>
                  wrote:

                  > Roger, you are exactly right. Cylindrical images need a cylindrical
                  > projection. Most viewers use a gnomic projection assuming that the
                  > image they are projecting is a spherical image. A cylindrical image
                  > projected gnomically will have verticals that converge toward the poles.
                  >
                  > If DevalVR does handle cylindrical projections correctly, that would be a
                  > very good thing for architectural scenes.

                  Yes, and there's a fairly easy (though not universally applicable) way
                  of differentiating between cylindrical and spherical projections. If
                  the image has a width that is exactly double the height, then it is
                  usually safe to assume "spherical" and if not, well, not.

                  Roger W.

                  --
                  Work: www.adex-japan.com
                • fierodeval
                  Hi Roger, Yes, DevalVR works as you wrote, if the proportion is aproximately 2:1 the projection used is spherical , if not it uses cylindrical , this is true
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 3, 2011
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                    Hi Roger,

                    Yes, DevalVR works as you wrote, if the proportion is aproximately 2:1 the projection used is "spherical", if not it uses "cylindrical", this is true in 99% of cases. Maybe the stitching program could add an EXIF code to solve this ambiguity in the JPEG, I don't know.

                    Anyway, I added the projection options in the context menu of the player since one year ago, so projection can be changed easily.

                    regards!
                    fiero




                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On Tue, 03 May 2011 12:36:33 +0900, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > > Roger, you are exactly right. Cylindrical images need a cylindrical
                    > > projection. Most viewers use a gnomic projection assuming that the
                    > > image they are projecting is a spherical image. A cylindrical image
                    > > projected gnomically will have verticals that converge toward the poles.
                    > >
                    > > If DevalVR does handle cylindrical projections correctly, that would be a
                    > > very good thing for architectural scenes.
                    >
                    > Yes, and there's a fairly easy (though not universally applicable) way
                    > of differentiating between cylindrical and spherical projections. If
                    > the image has a width that is exactly double the height, then it is
                    > usually safe to assume "spherical" and if not, well, not.
                    >
                    > Roger W.
                    >
                    > --
                    > Work: www.adex-japan.com
                    >
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