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PTGui - I'm Baffled

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  • Steve Schacht
    I ve been using Hugin for a while now but decided last night to give PTGui a try. My first attempt was a spherical pano using TIFF images (generated from my
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 8, 2006
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      I've been using Hugin for a while now but decided last night to give
      PTGui a try. My first attempt was a spherical pano using TIFF images
      (generated from my Canon 20D raw files). I was rather impressed with
      the auto control point feature and the time it saved me. The
      resulting equirect needed very little retouching.

      HOWEVER, this morning I tried again with a test pano of my backyard.
      The only difference is that I shot JPEG and used those as the source
      images. Now PTGui gives me a message that it doesn't support sources
      images with a FOV of 110 degrees or greater. What??? I just did
      this last night with 4 TIFF images from my Canon 20D/Peleng combo.
      Why can't PTGui do it this morning? Is it still tired from working
      last night? ;-) I'm confused.

      Oh yeah, I'm using the Mac version if that matters. Thanks for any
      insight.


      ---
      Steve Schacht
      shot@...
    • Phil Scott
      Go here: http://photocreations.ca/panotools/ and follow the link at the bottom that says: PanoTools library for the Mac with increased FoV limit
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 8, 2006
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        Go here:
        http://photocreations.ca/panotools/
        and follow the link at the bottom that says:
        "PanoTools library for the Mac with increased FoV limit"



        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@...> wrote:
        >
        > I've been using Hugin for a while now but decided last night to give
        > PTGui a try. My first attempt was a spherical pano using TIFF images
        > (generated from my Canon 20D raw files). I was rather impressed with
        > the auto control point feature and the time it saved me. The
        > resulting equirect needed very little retouching.
        >
        > HOWEVER, this morning I tried again with a test pano of my backyard.
        > The only difference is that I shot JPEG and used those as the source
        > images. Now PTGui gives me a message that it doesn't support sources
        > images with a FOV of 110 degrees or greater. What??? I just did
        > this last night with 4 TIFF images from my Canon 20D/Peleng combo.
        > Why can't PTGui do it this morning? Is it still tired from working
        > last night? ;-) I'm confused.
        >
        > Oh yeah, I'm using the Mac version if that matters. Thanks for any
        > insight.
        >
        >
        > ---
        > Steve Schacht
        > shot@...
        >
      • Hans Nyberg
        ... NO NO please, thats NOT for PTGui You find the right one here. http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/software.html Hans www.panoramas.dk
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 8, 2006
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          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Scott" <pwscott98@...> wrote:
          >
          > Go here:
          > http://photocreations.ca/panotools/
          > and follow the link at the bottom that says:
          > "PanoTools library for the Mac with increased FoV limit"

          NO NO please, thats NOT for PTGui
          You find the right one here.
          http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/software.html

          Hans
          www.panoramas.dk

          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I've been using Hugin for a while now but decided last night to give
          > > PTGui a try. My first attempt was a spherical pano using TIFF images
          > > (generated from my Canon 20D raw files). I was rather impressed with
          > > the auto control point feature and the time it saved me. The
          > > resulting equirect needed very little retouching.
          > >
          > > HOWEVER, this morning I tried again with a test pano of my backyard.
          > > The only difference is that I shot JPEG and used those as the source
          > > images. Now PTGui gives me a message that it doesn't support sources
          > > images with a FOV of 110 degrees or greater. What??? I just did
          > > this last night with 4 TIFF images from my Canon 20D/Peleng combo.
          > > Why can't PTGui do it this morning? Is it still tired from working
          > > last night? ;-) I'm confused.
          > >
          > > Oh yeah, I'm using the Mac version if that matters. Thanks for any
          > > insight.
          > >
          > >
          > > ---
          > > Steve Schacht
          > > shot@
          > >
          >
        • Steve Schacht
          Thanks guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but...I think you missed the point. Why did it work just fine last night with images from the same cam/ lens combo? THAT s
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 8, 2006
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            Thanks guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but...I think you missed the point.
            Why did it work just fine last night with images from the same cam/
            lens combo? THAT's what's baffling me.


            On Dec 8, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Hans Nyberg wrote:

            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Scott" <pwscott98@...>
            > wrote:
            >>
            >> Go here:
            >> http://photocreations.ca/panotools/
            >> and follow the link at the bottom that says:
            >> "PanoTools library for the Mac with increased FoV limit"
            >
            > NO NO please, thats NOT for PTGui
            > You find the right one here.
            > http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/software.html
            >
            > Hans
            > www.panoramas.dk
            >
            >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@> wrote:
            >>>
            >>> I've been using Hugin for a while now but decided last night to give
            >>> PTGui a try. My first attempt was a spherical pano using TIFF
            >>> images
            >>> (generated from my Canon 20D raw files). I was rather impressed
            >>> with
            >>> the auto control point feature and the time it saved me. The
            >>> resulting equirect needed very little retouching.
            >>>
            >>> HOWEVER, this morning I tried again with a test pano of my backyard.
            >>> The only difference is that I shot JPEG and used those as the source
            >>> images. Now PTGui gives me a message that it doesn't support
            >>> sources
            >>> images with a FOV of 110 degrees or greater. What??? I just did
            >>> this last night with 4 TIFF images from my Canon 20D/Peleng combo.
            >>> Why can't PTGui do it this morning? Is it still tired from working
            >>> last night? ;-) I'm confused.
            >>>
            >>> Oh yeah, I'm using the Mac version if that matters. Thanks for any
            >>> insight.
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> ---
            >>> Steve Schacht
            >>> shot@
          • pedro_silva58
            steve, did you maybe rotate one set of images, but not the other? might the portrait fov be different from the landscape? certainly it s not the tiff/jpeg
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 8, 2006
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              steve,

              did you maybe rotate one set of images, but not the other? might the
              portrait fov be different from the landscape? certainly it's not the
              tiff/jpeg difference that's causing it...

              cheers,
              pedro

              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but...I think you missed the point.
              > Why did it work just fine last night with images from the same cam/
              > lens combo? THAT's what's baffling me.
              >
            • Steve Schacht
              Thanks, Pedro. ... Yes, I believe that s the issue. When converting raw to TIFF, the images are saved in portrait orientation. When I used the JPEGs directly
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 8, 2006
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                Thanks, Pedro.

                On Dec 8, 2006, at 4:28 PM, pedro_silva58 wrote:

                > did you maybe rotate one set of images, but not the other? might the
                > portrait fov be different from the landscape?

                Yes, I believe that's the issue. When converting raw to TIFF, the
                images are saved in portrait orientation. When I used the JPEGs
                directly from the camera, the images are apparently landscape
                oriented but just tagged in the EXIF as being portrait. PTGui
                apparently doesn't honor the EXIF orientation data.

                > certainly it's not the
                > tiff/jpeg difference that's causing it...

                Correct. But it threw me, as that's the only difference that came to
                mind initially. I have since just resaved the JPEGs as TIFFs to
                simplify things for my test project.


                BTW, what are the correct lens settings for a Peleng on a 20D? This
                is apparently handled differently in PTGui than Hugin. Technically,
                it's a circular fisheye, but that doesn't seem to be the right choice
                for PTGui when using it on a 1.6 crop factor camera. I seem to get
                further when I use full frame, but I still haven't had any success
                with the JPEGs I shot this morning. I can't figure out what's
                different from last night.


                ---
                Steve Schacht
                shot@...
              • tflyfish2002
                Steve, Your tone with this message is not so good, you might get a better response if you tone it down. You need to read through the Wiki and past messages on
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 8, 2006
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                  Steve,
                  Your tone with this message is not so good, you might get a better
                  response if you tone it down.

                  You need to read through the Wiki and past messages on this list and I
                  think you might just find all your answers to your current issue there.

                  There is no offical support for fisheye lenses with PTGUI , but you
                  need to follow Han's link and download the "fixed" version of pano12.dll.

                  Not that I am not using caps which you may not know is considered
                  shouting.

                  Bazzer

                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but...I think you missed the point.
                  > Why did it work just fine last night with images from the same cam/
                  > lens combo? THAT's what's baffling me.
                  >
                  >
                  > On Dec 8, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Hans Nyberg wrote:
                  >
                  > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Scott" <pwscott98@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> Go here:
                  > >> http://photocreations.ca/panotools/
                  > >> and follow the link at the bottom that says:
                  > >> "PanoTools library for the Mac with increased FoV limit"
                  > >
                  > > NO NO please, thats NOT for PTGui
                  > > You find the right one here.
                  > > http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/software.html
                  > >
                  > > Hans
                  > > www.panoramas.dk
                  > >
                  > >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@> wrote:
                  > >>>
                  > >>> I've been using Hugin for a while now but decided last night to give
                  > >>> PTGui a try. My first attempt was a spherical pano using TIFF
                  > >>> images
                  > >>> (generated from my Canon 20D raw files). I was rather impressed
                  > >>> with
                  > >>> the auto control point feature and the time it saved me. The
                  > >>> resulting equirect needed very little retouching.
                  > >>>
                  > >>> HOWEVER, this morning I tried again with a test pano of my backyard.
                  > >>> The only difference is that I shot JPEG and used those as the source
                  > >>> images. Now PTGui gives me a message that it doesn't support
                  > >>> sources
                  > >>> images with a FOV of 110 degrees or greater. What??? I just did
                  > >>> this last night with 4 TIFF images from my Canon 20D/Peleng combo.
                  > >>> Why can't PTGui do it this morning? Is it still tired from working
                  > >>> last night? ;-) I'm confused.
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Oh yeah, I'm using the Mac version if that matters. Thanks for any
                  > >>> insight.
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>> ---
                  > >>> Steve Schacht
                  > >>> shot@
                  >
                • Steve Schacht
                  ... I meant of course that I saved them as TIFFs in portrait orientation. As Pedro noted, the file format has nothing to do with it. It s an image
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 8, 2006
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                    On Dec 8, 2006, at 5:17 PM, Steve Schacht wrote:

                    > On Dec 8, 2006, at 4:28 PM, pedro_silva58 wrote:
                    >
                    >> certainly it's not the
                    >> tiff/jpeg difference that's causing it...
                    >
                    > I have since just resaved the JPEGs as TIFFs to
                    > simplify things for my test project.

                    I meant of course that I saved them as TIFFs in portrait
                    orientation. As Pedro noted, the file format has nothing to do with
                    it. It's an image orientation issue.

                    > BTW, what are the correct lens settings for a Peleng on a 20D? This
                    > is apparently handled differently in PTGui than Hugin.

                    Actually, there appear to be some kinks in PTGui for Mac. I was
                    using the correct settings, but they weren't "sticking" until I
                    changed them in the Project Assistant tab.


                    ---
                    Steve Schacht
                    shot@...
                  • John Houghton
                    ... Steve, Circular fisheyes are handled slightly differently by PTGui but they are specified as Circular. Set the crop circle on the edge of the image circle
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 9, 2006
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                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > BTW, what are the correct lens settings for a Peleng on a 20D? This
                      > is apparently handled differently in PTGui than Hugin. Technically,
                      > it's a circular fisheye, but that doesn't seem to be the right
                      > choice for PTGui when using it on a 1.6 crop factor camera.

                      Steve, Circular fisheyes are handled slightly differently by PTGui but
                      they are specified as Circular. Set the crop circle on the edge of the
                      image circle and initialize the hfov to 180, which is the fov of the
                      image circle rather than the width of the image frame, as is the case
                      for Hugin. Take care to apply the crop to all the images.

                      As to image orientation: The orientations displayed in the Project
                      Assistant reflect the orientations in the output panorama. The rotate
                      buttons rotate the entire panorama image rather than individual
                      images. The thumbnails on Source Images tab (advanced mode) shows the
                      base orientations to which the lens hfov applies.

                      A manual workflow in Advanced mode will correspond to your familiar
                      Hugin workflow, and lens parameters etc. will stick. For convenience,
                      You can apply an existing project as a template (via the File menu) to
                      initialize lens and image parameters. Control points will not be
                      transferred from the template file.

                      John
                    • Steve Schacht
                      Thanks for the reply, John! ... Interesting, as I ve gotten it to work just fine using Full Frame. It seems to be a pretty streamlined workflow, and it works
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 9, 2006
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                        Thanks for the reply, John!


                        On Dec 9, 2006, at 1:14 AM, John Houghton wrote:

                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > BTW, what are the correct lens settings for a Peleng on a 20D? This
                        > > is apparently handled differently in PTGui than Hugin. Technically,
                        > > it's a circular fisheye, but that doesn't seem to be the right
                        > > choice for PTGui when using it on a 1.6 crop factor camera.
                        >
                        > Steve, Circular fisheyes are handled slightly differently by PTGui but
                        > they are specified as Circular. Set the crop circle on the edge of the
                        > image circle and initialize the hfov to 180, which is the fov of the
                        > image circle rather than the width of the image frame, as is the case
                        > for Hugin. Take care to apply the crop to all the images.
                        Interesting, as I've gotten it to work just fine using Full Frame.
                        It seems to be a pretty streamlined workflow, and it works within
                        PTGui's 110 degree hFOV limitation (albeit just barely since the the
                        image hFOV is about 107.4 with my Peleng and 20D) and without having
                        to crop.

                        I'm now trying to work out a streamlined workflow for horizontal pole
                        panos.

                        ---
                        Steve
                      • Hans Nyberg
                        ... Actually your 107.4 degree FOV is an imaginary FOV which does not at all correspond to your real FOV which with the 20D+Peleng 8mm would be around 117. The
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 9, 2006
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                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@...> wrote:

                          > > they are specified as Circular. Set the crop circle on the edge of the
                          > > image circle and initialize the hfov to 180, which is the fov of the
                          > > image circle rather than the width of the image frame, as is the case
                          > > for Hugin. Take care to apply the crop to all the images.
                          > Interesting, as I've gotten it to work just fine using Full Frame.
                          > It seems to be a pretty streamlined workflow, and it works within
                          > PTGui's 110 degree hFOV limitation (albeit just barely since the the
                          > image hFOV is about 107.4 with my Peleng and 20D) and without having
                          > to crop.

                          Actually your 107.4 degree FOV is an imaginary FOV which does not at all correspond to
                          your real FOV which with the 20D+Peleng 8mm would be around 117.

                          The reason you can stitch with 107.4 is that your a b c corrections take care of the
                          distortion.

                          However it may be a dangerous way as this can cause unwanted distortions in the
                          panorama which could be visible in areas with straight geometric subjects.

                          The best is to use the real FOV and optimize a + b first. You will usually then see only a
                          very small adjustment of the FOV if you optimize it. Optimizing c is usually never
                          necessary.

                          Hans
                          www.panoramas.dk
                        • Steve Schacht
                          Thanks, Hans! ... Yes, that s the computed FOV. It s nearly the same every time, and that s what I d been getting with Hugin as well, so I never questioned
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 9, 2006
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                            Thanks, Hans!


                            On Dec 9, 2006, at 12:21 PM, Hans Nyberg wrote:

                            > The reason you can stitch with 107.4 is that your a b c corrections
                            > take care of the
                            > distortion.

                            Yes, that's the computed FOV. It's nearly the same every time, and
                            that's what I'd been getting with Hugin as well, so I never
                            questioned it. PTGui calculates a FOV of 112 with just the lens
                            parameters - i.e. 8mm and 1.6 crop factor.

                            > However it may be a dangerous way as this can cause unwanted
                            > distortions in the
                            > panorama which could be visible in areas with straight geometric
                            > subjects.

                            Hmmm, interesting. I do mostly landscapes, and I've never noticed
                            any issue. I'll have to try some buildings.

                            > The best is to use the real FOV and optimize a + b first. You will
                            > usually then see only a
                            > very small adjustment of the FOV if you optimize it. Optimizing c
                            > is usually never
                            > necessary.

                            I'll give that a try. I'm encountering another issue now with
                            PTGui. I can't add horizontal or vertical control points. When I
                            add the point to both side of the image display and then change the
                            type, it still indicates "normal" type in the control point list.
                            Very frustrating. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. :-/


                            ---
                            Steve
                          • Hans Nyberg
                            ... My guess is you do not have the same image in both sides. As soon as you opens the same image in both sides it will change to vertical points. If you want
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 9, 2006
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                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@...> wrote:

                              > I'll give that a try. I'm encountering another issue now with
                              > PTGui. I can't add horizontal or vertical control points. When I
                              > add the point to both side of the image display and then change the
                              > type, it still indicates "normal" type in the control point list.
                              > Very frustrating. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. :-/

                              My guess is you do not have the same image in both sides.
                              As soon as you opens the same image in both sides it will change to vertical points.
                              If you want horisontal points you have to change manually.

                              Hans
                            • Hans Nyberg
                              ... You are right . I just remember Peleng has a larger image circle, so a real horisontal FOV around 110 would be the right one , not 117 as I claimed. Hans
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 9, 2006
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                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@...> wrote:

                                > > The reason you can stitch with 107.4 is that your a b c corrections
                                > > take care of the
                                > > distortion.
                                >
                                > Yes, that's the computed FOV. It's nearly the same every time, and
                                > that's what I'd been getting with Hugin as well, so I never
                                > questioned it. PTGui calculates a FOV of 112 with just the lens
                                > parameters - i.e. 8mm and 1.6 crop factor.

                                You are right .
                                I just remember Peleng has a larger image circle, so a real horisontal FOV around 110 would
                                be the right one , not 117 as I claimed.

                                Hans
                              • Steve Schacht
                                ... Yes, but the PTGui help says horizontal and vertical control points can be in either the same image or different images (assuming the line traverses both
                                Message 15 of 16 , Dec 9, 2006
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                                  On Dec 9, 2006, at 2:48 PM, Hans Nyberg wrote:

                                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schacht <shot@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > I'll give that a try. I'm encountering another issue now with
                                  > > PTGui. I can't add horizontal or vertical control points. When I
                                  > > add the point to both side of the image display and then change the
                                  > > type, it still indicates "normal" type in the control point list.
                                  > > Very frustrating. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. :-/
                                  >
                                  > My guess is you do not have the same image in both sides.
                                  > As soon as you opens the same image in both sides it will change to
                                  > vertical points.
                                  > If you want horisontal points you have to change manually.
                                  Yes, but the PTGui help says horizontal and vertical control points
                                  can be in either the same image or different images (assuming the
                                  line traverses both images). I have not been able to specify either
                                  horizontal or vertical control points in different images. I'm
                                  wanting to make sure the lines blend well, are straight, and don't
                                  break. I'm stumped. PTGui lets me change the popup menu for the
                                  control point type, but that change is not reflected in the control
                                  point list. I'm using the Mac version. :-/


                                  ---
                                  Steve
                                • Steve Schacht
                                  I m a blithering idiot! I just realized the CP type popup menu on the Control Points tab pertains to the control point you are ABOUT to place! I thought it
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Dec 9, 2006
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                                    I'm a blithering idiot! I just realized the "CP type" popup menu on
                                    the Control Points tab pertains to the control point you are ABOUT to
                                    place! I thought it set the type of the currently selected
                                    (flashing) control point pair! No wonder the silly thing wouldn't
                                    change type! You can ignore my other control point frustration
                                    posts. Oi! :-/

                                    ---
                                    Steve
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