Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

day rate for photojournalists?

Expand Messages
  • Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
    what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism jobs? It s not a field I ve worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying less
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 5, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
      jobs?

      It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
      less than e.g. advertising,
      but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.


      thanks,
      Jeffrey


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sacha Griffin
      Your expenses + your required profit + experience/quality/fame /availability premium. It s vital you can at least figure out 1 and 2 by yourself, take a stab
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 5, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Your expenses + your required profit + experience/quality/fame /availability
        premium.

        It's vital you can at least figure out 1 and 2 by yourself, take a stab at
        three and see if it sticks. If it sticks easily you probably undershot 3.

        And if you get no takers after setting 1 and 2, you find a new job.



        -s



        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
        Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:08 AM
        To: panotoolsng
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?





        what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
        jobs?

        It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
        less than e.g. advertising,
        but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.

        thanks,
        Jeffrey

        .


        <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=18227848/grpspId=1705006496/msgI
        d=47257/stime=1294236495/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3>





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Paulo Fernandes
        LOL Sacha, that was the quickest and to the point explanation of pricing I ve ever read :) really nice. Com os melhores comprimentos, Best Regards, Paulo
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 5, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          LOL

          Sacha, that was the quickest and to the point explanation of pricing I've
          ever read :) really nice.

          Com os melhores comprimentos,
          Best Regards,

          Paulo Fernandes
          Multim�dia



          Go Go Pixel - Design, Fotografia e Multim�dia
          Cal�ada do Lidador, 22, 1�Andar
          4480-690 Vila do Conde - Portugal
          Tel. +351 252 119 375 - Fax. +351 252 119 375


          On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Sacha Griffin <
          sachagriffin@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Your expenses + your required profit + experience/quality/fame
          > /availability
          > premium.
          >
          > It's vital you can at least figure out 1 and 2 by yourself, take a stab at
          > three and see if it sticks. If it sticks easily you probably undershot 3.
          >
          > And if you get no takers after setting 1 and 2, you find a new job.
          >
          > -s
          >
          > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
          > PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>] On
          > Behalf Of Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
          > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:08 AM
          > To: panotoolsng
          > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
          >
          >
          > what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
          > jobs?
          >
          > It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
          > less than e.g. advertising,
          > but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.
          >
          > thanks,
          > Jeffrey
          >
          > .
          >
          > <
          > http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=18227848/grpspId=1705006496/msgI
          > d=47257/stime=1294236495/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3>
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mrjimbo
          Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic s and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 5, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic's and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires and that was 350.00 per day.. Not a lot to many but it worked for me at the time.. that was based on 10 hr days.. But all food was provided, typical expenses were covered and their was a travel allowance if needed . Normal day rates for photographic services in our area are 500.00 per day plus expenses etc... pretty normal ..but shorter days. That rate has been around a long time and has not gone up. I don't know what it is in larger cities with higher costs etc..I'm sure more..

            jimbo
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
            To: panotoolsng
            Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:07 AM
            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?



            what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
            jobs?

            It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
            less than e.g. advertising,
            but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.

            thanks,
            Jeffrey

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Hans
            ... 500 is that in dollars ? I doubt you can get anyone for that here in Europe. $1000 a day is a normal prize + 20-25% vat of course. Hans
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 5, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
              >
              > Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic's and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires and that was 350.00 per day.. Not a lot to many but it worked for me at the time.. that was based on 10 hr days.. But all food was provided, typical expenses were covered and their was a travel allowance if needed . Normal day rates for photographic services in our area are 500.00 per day plus expenses etc... pretty normal ..but shorter days. That rate has been around a long time and has not gone up. I don't know what it is in larger cities with higher costs etc..I'm sure more..

              500 is that in dollars ?

              I doubt you can get anyone for that here in Europe.
              $1000 a day is a normal prize + 20-25% vat of course.

              Hans

              >
              > jimbo
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
              > To: panotoolsng
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:07 AM
              > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
              >
              >
              >
              > what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
              > jobs?
              >
              > It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
              > less than e.g. advertising,
              > but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.
              >
              > thanks,
              > Jeffrey
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • A Kielcz
              it depends where. A Kielcz Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A. ... From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 5, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                it depends where.


                A Kielcz

                Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A.

                --- On Wed, 1/5/11, Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net <360cities@...> wrote:

                From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net <360cities@...>
                Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
                To: "panotoolsng" <PANOtoolsng@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Wednesday, January 5, 2011, 9:07 AM







                 









                what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism

                jobs?



                It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying

                less than e.g. advertising,

                but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.



                thanks,

                Jeffrey



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • jann_lipka
                I would second that - It is not carved in stone but 1000$ + VAT sounds normal.
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 5, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  I would second that - It is not carved in stone but 1000$ + VAT sounds
                  normal.

                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic's and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires and that was 350.00 per day.. Not a lot to many but it worked for me at the time.. that was based on 10 hr days.. But all food was provided, typical expenses were covered and their was a travel allowance if needed . Normal day rates for photographic services in our area are 500.00 per day plus expenses etc... pretty normal ..but shorter days. That rate has been around a long time and has not gone up. I don't know what it is in larger cities with higher costs etc..I'm sure more..
                  >
                  > 500 is that in dollars ?
                  >
                  > I doubt you can get anyone for that here in Europe.
                  > $1000 a day is a normal prize + 20-25% vat of course.
                  >
                  > Hans
                  >
                  > >
                  > > jimbo
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
                  > > To: panotoolsng
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:07 AM
                  > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
                  > > jobs?
                  > >
                  > > It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
                  > > less than e.g. advertising,
                  > > but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.
                  > >
                  > > thanks,
                  > > Jeffrey
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                • mrjimbo
                  Your probably correct on that ...Europe has some sort of Photo group or organization.. It is my understanding that helps tremendously hold prices up.. In the
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 5, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Your probably correct on that ...Europe has some sort of Photo group or organization.. It is my understanding that helps tremendously hold prices up.. In the US their is nothing like that functionally.. thus we have a lower priced market in many cases.. Probably bad info for a European situation..

                    jimbo
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: jann_lipka
                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:15 AM
                    Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: day rate for photojournalists?



                    I would second that - It is not carved in stone but 1000$ + VAT sounds
                    normal.

                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic's and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires and that was 350.00 per day.. Not a lot to many but it worked for me at the time.. that was based on 10 hr days.. But all food was provided, typical expenses were covered and their was a travel allowance if needed . Normal day rates for photographic services in our area are 500.00 per day plus expenses etc... pretty normal ..but shorter days. That rate has been around a long time and has not gone up. I don't know what it is in larger cities with higher costs etc..I'm sure more..
                    >
                    > 500 is that in dollars ?
                    >
                    > I doubt you can get anyone for that here in Europe.
                    > $1000 a day is a normal prize + 20-25% vat of course.
                    >
                    > Hans
                    >
                    > >
                    > > jimbo
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
                    > > To: panotoolsng
                    > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:07 AM
                    > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
                    > > jobs?
                    > >
                    > > It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
                    > > less than e.g. advertising,
                    > > but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.
                    > >
                    > > thanks,
                    > > Jeffrey
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • prague
                    Thanks very much everybody.
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 6, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks very much everybody.




                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Your probably correct on that ...Europe has some sort of Photo group or organization.. It is my understanding that helps tremendously hold prices up.. In the US their is nothing like that functionally.. thus we have a lower priced market in many cases.. Probably bad info for a European situation..
                      >
                      > jimbo
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: jann_lipka
                      > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:15 AM
                      > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: day rate for photojournalists?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I would second that - It is not carved in stone but 1000$ + VAT sounds
                      > normal.
                      >
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic's and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires and that was 350.00 per day.. Not a lot to many but it worked for me at the time.. that was based on 10 hr days.. But all food was provided, typical expenses were covered and their was a travel allowance if needed . Normal day rates for photographic services in our area are 500.00 per day plus expenses etc... pretty normal ..but shorter days. That rate has been around a long time and has not gone up. I don't know what it is in larger cities with higher costs etc..I'm sure more..
                      > >
                      > > 500 is that in dollars ?
                      > >
                      > > I doubt you can get anyone for that here in Europe.
                      > > $1000 a day is a normal prize + 20-25% vat of course.
                      > >
                      > > Hans
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > > jimbo
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
                      > > > To: panotoolsng
                      > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:07 AM
                      > > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
                      > > > jobs?
                      > > >
                      > > > It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
                      > > > less than e.g. advertising,
                      > > > but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.
                      > > >
                      > > > thanks,
                      > > > Jeffrey
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • prague
                      What if the job requires stitching of say 3-5 panos, plus editing/encoding videos? And the day is 10-12 hours long? In that case I would guess minimum $1000
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 6, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        What if the job requires stitching of say 3-5 panos, plus editing/encoding videos? And the day is 10-12 hours long? In that case I would guess minimum $1000 and up to $2000. Is this something that would get laughed at?



                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Your probably correct on that ...Europe has some sort of Photo group or organization.. It is my understanding that helps tremendously hold prices up.. In the US their is nothing like that functionally.. thus we have a lower priced market in many cases.. Probably bad info for a European situation..
                        >
                        > jimbo
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: jann_lipka
                        > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:15 AM
                        > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: day rate for photojournalists?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I would second that - It is not carved in stone but 1000$ + VAT sounds
                        > normal.
                        >
                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic's and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires and that was 350.00 per day.. Not a lot to many but it worked for me at the time.. that was based on 10 hr days.. But all food was provided, typical expenses were covered and their was a travel allowance if needed . Normal day rates for photographic services in our area are 500.00 per day plus expenses etc... pretty normal ..but shorter days. That rate has been around a long time and has not gone up. I don't know what it is in larger cities with higher costs etc..I'm sure more..
                        > >
                        > > 500 is that in dollars ?
                        > >
                        > > I doubt you can get anyone for that here in Europe.
                        > > $1000 a day is a normal prize + 20-25% vat of course.
                        > >
                        > > Hans
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > jimbo
                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
                        > > > To: panotoolsng
                        > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:07 AM
                        > > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
                        > > > jobs?
                        > > >
                        > > > It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
                        > > > less than e.g. advertising,
                        > > > but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.
                        > > >
                        > > > thanks,
                        > > > Jeffrey
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • jrgen_schrader
                        First of all: you do not want to include processing into your dayrate for photojournalism! Nonetheless there can be a dayrate for processing. What to charge
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 6, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          First of all: you do not want to include processing into your dayrate for photojournalism! Nonetheless there can be a dayrate for processing.

                          What to charge really depends. Being a "journalist" is nothing special and compared to corporate work payment is always lower.

                          If it's for a magazine or newspaper they already have their rates which you will have a hard time to raise. From my colleagues I know that they would be more then happy if they'd get 1000 US$/day which equals 750,00 EUR. In fact most of them are lucky to get 500 EUR because there are so many people around who would do it for even less.

                          So better look at what you have to offer and how badly they want it. That's your real capital, your time isn't.

                          It's a good idea to start with the guideline of Sacha, see where that leads you to and confront your client with the numbers.

                          Cheers
                          Jürgen





                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <360cities@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > What if the job requires stitching of say 3-5 panos, plus editing/encoding videos? And the day is 10-12 hours long? In that case I would guess minimum $1000 and up to $2000. Is this something that would get laughed at?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Your probably correct on that ...Europe has some sort of Photo group or organization.. It is my understanding that helps tremendously hold prices up.. In the US their is nothing like that functionally.. thus we have a lower priced market in many cases.. Probably bad info for a European situation..
                          > >
                          > > jimbo
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: jann_lipka
                          > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:15 AM
                          > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: day rate for photojournalists?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > I would second that - It is not carved in stone but 1000$ + VAT sounds
                          > > normal.
                          > >
                          > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic's and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires and that was 350.00 per day.. Not a lot to many but it worked for me at the time.. that was based on 10 hr days.. But all food was provided, typical expenses were covered and their was a travel allowance if needed . Normal day rates for photographic services in our area are 500.00 per day plus expenses etc... pretty normal ..but shorter days. That rate has been around a long time and has not gone up. I don't know what it is in larger cities with higher costs etc..I'm sure more..
                          > > >
                          > > > 500 is that in dollars ?
                          > > >
                          > > > I doubt you can get anyone for that here in Europe.
                          > > > $1000 a day is a normal prize + 20-25% vat of course.
                          > > >
                          > > > Hans
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > jimbo
                          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > > From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
                          > > > > To: panotoolsng
                          > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:07 AM
                          > > > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
                          > > > > jobs?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
                          > > > > less than e.g. advertising,
                          > > > > but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > thanks,
                          > > > > Jeffrey
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                        • prague
                          Thanks Jurgen. Another point of view i got from someone offlist. I ll quote them here. I don t think they want to be named. Day rate in London for the
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 6, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks Jurgen.

                            Another point of view i got from someone offlist. I'll quote them here. I don't think they want to be named.

                            "Day rate in London for the newspapers is about 200U$ (two hundred) + exs. I nearly fell off my stool laughing at 1000U$ a day for editorial... Poppycock... and yes picture desks would put the phone down on you if you were asking 2,000U$ a day... That's nonsense..."



                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > First of all: you do not want to include processing into your dayrate for photojournalism! Nonetheless there can be a dayrate for processing.
                            >
                            > What to charge really depends. Being a "journalist" is nothing special and compared to corporate work payment is always lower.
                            >
                            > If it's for a magazine or newspaper they already have their rates which you will have a hard time to raise. From my colleagues I know that they would be more then happy if they'd get 1000 US$/day which equals 750,00 EUR. In fact most of them are lucky to get 500 EUR because there are so many people around who would do it for even less.
                            >
                            > So better look at what you have to offer and how badly they want it. That's your real capital, your time isn't.
                            >
                            > It's a good idea to start with the guideline of Sacha, see where that leads you to and confront your client with the numbers.
                            >
                            > Cheers
                            > Jürgen
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <360cities@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > What if the job requires stitching of say 3-5 panos, plus editing/encoding videos? And the day is 10-12 hours long? In that case I would guess minimum $1000 and up to $2000. Is this something that would get laughed at?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Your probably correct on that ...Europe has some sort of Photo group or organization.. It is my understanding that helps tremendously hold prices up.. In the US their is nothing like that functionally.. thus we have a lower priced market in many cases.. Probably bad info for a European situation..
                            > > >
                            > > > jimbo
                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > From: jann_lipka
                            > > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:15 AM
                            > > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: day rate for photojournalists?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > I would second that - It is not carved in stone but 1000$ + VAT sounds
                            > > > normal.
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic's and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires and that was 350.00 per day.. Not a lot to many but it worked for me at the time.. that was based on 10 hr days.. But all food was provided, typical expenses were covered and their was a travel allowance if needed . Normal day rates for photographic services in our area are 500.00 per day plus expenses etc... pretty normal ..but shorter days. That rate has been around a long time and has not gone up. I don't know what it is in larger cities with higher costs etc..I'm sure more..
                            > > > >
                            > > > > 500 is that in dollars ?
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I doubt you can get anyone for that here in Europe.
                            > > > > $1000 a day is a normal prize + 20-25% vat of course.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Hans
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > jimbo
                            > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > > > From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
                            > > > > > To: panotoolsng
                            > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:07 AM
                            > > > > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
                            > > > > > jobs?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
                            > > > > > less than e.g. advertising,
                            > > > > > but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > thanks,
                            > > > > > Jeffrey
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • jrgen_schrader
                            Exactly what I told you. But as I said, it all depends. Are you going to shoot a traffic accident in your neighborhood or want to find evidence for child labor
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 6, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Exactly what I told you.
                              But as I said, it all depends.
                              Are you going to shoot a traffic accident in your neighborhood or want to find evidence for child labor in the cocoa industry in Ivory Coast?
                              How long is that engagement?
                              How long are travel times?
                              How are travel times paid, if at all?
                              Is there an additional daily budget for food and hotel?
                              How are usage rights handled?
                              And so on.




                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <360cities@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Thanks Jurgen.
                              >
                              > Another point of view i got from someone offlist. I'll quote them here. I don't think they want to be named.
                              >
                              > "Day rate in London for the newspapers is about 200U$ (two hundred) + exs. I nearly fell off my stool laughing at 1000U$ a day for editorial... Poppycock... and yes picture desks would put the phone down on you if you were asking 2,000U$ a day... That's nonsense..."
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > First of all: you do not want to include processing into your dayrate for photojournalism! Nonetheless there can be a dayrate for processing.
                              > >
                              > > What to charge really depends. Being a "journalist" is nothing special and compared to corporate work payment is always lower.
                              > >
                              > > If it's for a magazine or newspaper they already have their rates which you will have a hard time to raise. From my colleagues I know that they would be more then happy if they'd get 1000 US$/day which equals 750,00 EUR. In fact most of them are lucky to get 500 EUR because there are so many people around who would do it for even less.
                              > >
                              > > So better look at what you have to offer and how badly they want it. That's your real capital, your time isn't.
                              > >
                              > > It's a good idea to start with the guideline of Sacha, see where that leads you to and confront your client with the numbers.
                              > >
                              > > Cheers
                              > > Jürgen
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <360cities@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > What if the job requires stitching of say 3-5 panos, plus editing/encoding videos? And the day is 10-12 hours long? In that case I would guess minimum $1000 and up to $2000. Is this something that would get laughed at?
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Your probably correct on that ...Europe has some sort of Photo group or organization.. It is my understanding that helps tremendously hold prices up.. In the US their is nothing like that functionally.. thus we have a lower priced market in many cases.. Probably bad info for a European situation..
                              > > > >
                              > > > > jimbo
                              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > > From: jann_lipka
                              > > > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:15 AM
                              > > > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: day rate for photojournalists?
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I would second that - It is not carved in stone but 1000$ + VAT sounds
                              > > > > normal.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic's and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires and that was 350.00 per day.. Not a lot to many but it worked for me at the time.. that was based on 10 hr days.. But all food was provided, typical expenses were covered and their was a travel allowance if needed . Normal day rates for photographic services in our area are 500.00 per day plus expenses etc... pretty normal ..but shorter days. That rate has been around a long time and has not gone up. I don't know what it is in larger cities with higher costs etc..I'm sure more..
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > 500 is that in dollars ?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I doubt you can get anyone for that here in Europe.
                              > > > > > $1000 a day is a normal prize + 20-25% vat of course.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Hans
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > jimbo
                              > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > > > > From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
                              > > > > > > To: panotoolsng
                              > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:07 AM
                              > > > > > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
                              > > > > > > jobs?
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
                              > > > > > > less than e.g. advertising,
                              > > > > > > but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > thanks,
                              > > > > > > Jeffrey
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Hans
                              ... Here are some real examples from Danish and Swedish photographers. Denmark, range from 800-940 euro +vat 8 hours 8.00-17.00 at other hours +50%
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 6, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <360cities@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Thanks Jurgen.
                                >
                                > Another point of view i got from someone offlist. I'll quote them here. I don't think they want to be named.
                                >
                                > "Day rate in London for the newspapers is about 200U$ (two hundred) + exs. I nearly fell >off my stool laughing at 1000U$ a day for editorial... Poppycock... and yes picture desks >would put the phone down on you if you were asking 2,000U$ a day... That's nonsense..."

                                Here are some real examples from Danish and Swedish photographers.
                                Denmark, range from 800-940 euro +vat 8 hours 8.00-17.00 at other hours +50%
                                http://www.thomassoendergaard.dk/priser_rettigheder.html
                                http://www.widewood.dk/Files/Billeder/Downloadcenter/Widewood%20prisliste%20business.pdf
                                http://www.claussjodin.com/cspress/info/priser-redaktionelt/
                                http://miklasnjor.com/fotograf-i-kobenhavn/

                                Sweden;
                                The Swedish Bildleverantørernes førening ( Image suppliers union) has agreements with the Swedish medias. I believe most Swedish press photographers are members.
                                http://www.blf.se/sv/blf/leveransvillkor/241-2009-blfs-leveransvillkor-foer-stillbild.html

                                They do not have prices on their site you have to ask for them but in 2008 the prices was
                                840 kr/hour for first 2 hours 630 kr/hour for following.
                                Thats 94 euro and 70 euro + vat of course.
                                That will make around 620 euro a day + vat.

                                I belive these prices are slightly raised as I can see from this Photographer.
                                http://www.dagsbild.se/dagsbild/prislista.php

                                They also say that all time is counted in , Traveltime, preparing time, photography and all necessary after work, computerwork etc.

                                And during weekends prices are raised 80%

                                Price for car is around 0.5 euro per km

                                Hans

                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > First of all: you do not want to include processing into your dayrate for photojournalism! Nonetheless there can be a dayrate for processing.
                                > >
                                > > What to charge really depends. Being a "journalist" is nothing special and compared to corporate work payment is always lower.
                                > >
                                > > If it's for a magazine or newspaper they already have their rates which you will have a hard time to raise. From my colleagues I know that they would be more then happy if they'd get 1000 US$/day which equals 750,00 EUR. In fact most of them are lucky to get 500 EUR because there are so many people around who would do it for even less.
                                > >
                                > > So better look at what you have to offer and how badly they want it. That's your real capital, your time isn't.
                                > >
                                > > It's a good idea to start with the guideline of Sacha, see where that leads you to and confront your client with the numbers.
                                > >
                                > > Cheers
                                > > Jürgen
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <360cities@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > What if the job requires stitching of say 3-5 panos, plus editing/encoding videos? And the day is 10-12 hours long? In that case I would guess minimum $1000 and up to $2000. Is this something that would get laughed at?
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Your probably correct on that ...Europe has some sort of Photo group or organization.. It is my understanding that helps tremendously hold prices up.. In the US their is nothing like that functionally.. thus we have a lower priced market in many cases.. Probably bad info for a European situation..
                                > > > >
                                > > > > jimbo
                                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > > From: jann_lipka
                                > > > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:15 AM
                                > > > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: day rate for photojournalists?
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I would second that - It is not carved in stone but 1000$ + VAT sounds
                                > > > > normal.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic's and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires and that was 350.00 per day.. Not a lot to many but it worked for me at the time.. that was based on 10 hr days.. But all food was provided, typical expenses were covered and their was a travel allowance if needed . Normal day rates for photographic services in our area are 500.00 per day plus expenses etc... pretty normal ..but shorter days. That rate has been around a long time and has not gone up. I don't know what it is in larger cities with higher costs etc..I'm sure more..
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > 500 is that in dollars ?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I doubt you can get anyone for that here in Europe.
                                > > > > > $1000 a day is a normal prize + 20-25% vat of course.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Hans
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > jimbo
                                > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > > > > From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
                                > > > > > > To: panotoolsng
                                > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:07 AM
                                > > > > > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
                                > > > > > > jobs?
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
                                > > > > > > less than e.g. advertising,
                                > > > > > > but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > thanks,
                                > > > > > > Jeffrey
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • mrjimbo
                                Hey Jeff, You ve got a lot of input here.. It looks like it s all over the place .. which is actually ok.. So Sacha s advice is making more sense.. I guess
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 6, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hey Jeff,
                                  You've got a lot of input here.. It looks like it's all over the place .. which is actually ok.. So Sacha's advice is making more sense.. I guess you need to get your arms around how good of a job you do bringing value to the process as compared to those around you and after you finish a job how happy your client is with what they got.. If your the kind of person that always brings more value to a project and your clients are happy both with the work and the bill then you can up the anti a bit.. I guess I have always looked at it like ..The first time I work with a client it is somewhat of a crapshoot in a way as they don't know me nor I all their expectations.. so the second time you work with them is usually more meaningful..
                                  As far as lumping everything together .. shooting , computer time etc.. I would suggest not.. their actually different segments.. and depending upon the client can get pretty lopsided at times.. If you feel the rate is the same then I guess it's ok but typically around here it's not.

                                  good luck

                                  jimbo



                                  From: prague
                                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:03 AM
                                  Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: day rate for photojournalists?



                                  Thanks Jurgen.

                                  Another point of view i got from someone offlist. I'll quote them here. I don't think they want to be named.

                                  "Day rate in London for the newspapers is about 200U$ (two hundred) + exs. I nearly fell off my stool laughing at 1000U$ a day for editorial... Poppycock... and yes picture desks would put the phone down on you if you were asking 2,000U$ a day... That's nonsense..."

                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > First of all: you do not want to include processing into your dayrate for photojournalism! Nonetheless there can be a dayrate for processing.
                                  >
                                  > What to charge really depends. Being a "journalist" is nothing special and compared to corporate work payment is always lower.
                                  >
                                  > If it's for a magazine or newspaper they already have their rates which you will have a hard time to raise. From my colleagues I know that they would be more then happy if they'd get 1000 US$/day which equals 750,00 EUR. In fact most of them are lucky to get 500 EUR because there are so many people around who would do it for even less.
                                  >
                                  > So better look at what you have to offer and how badly they want it. That's your real capital, your time isn't.
                                  >
                                  > It's a good idea to start with the guideline of Sacha, see where that leads you to and confront your client with the numbers.
                                  >
                                  > Cheers
                                  > Jürgen
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <360cities@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > What if the job requires stitching of say 3-5 panos, plus editing/encoding videos? And the day is 10-12 hours long? In that case I would guess minimum $1000 and up to $2000. Is this something that would get laughed at?
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Your probably correct on that ...Europe has some sort of Photo group or organization.. It is my understanding that helps tremendously hold prices up.. In the US their is nothing like that functionally.. thus we have a lower priced market in many cases.. Probably bad info for a European situation..
                                  > > >
                                  > > > jimbo
                                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > From: jann_lipka
                                  > > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:15 AM
                                  > > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: day rate for photojournalists?
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I would second that - It is not carved in stone but 1000$ + VAT sounds
                                  > > > normal.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Jeff that day rate is all over the place actually. It depends on Geographic's and also who your shooting for too.. I have some experience covering forest fires and that was 350.00 per day.. Not a lot to many but it worked for me at the time.. that was based on 10 hr days.. But all food was provided, typical expenses were covered and their was a travel allowance if needed . Normal day rates for photographic services in our area are 500.00 per day plus expenses etc... pretty normal ..but shorter days. That rate has been around a long time and has not gone up. I don't know what it is in larger cities with higher costs etc..I'm sure more..
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > 500 is that in dollars ?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I doubt you can get anyone for that here in Europe.
                                  > > > > $1000 a day is a normal prize + 20-25% vat of course.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hans
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > jimbo
                                  > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > > > From: Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net
                                  > > > > > To: panotoolsng
                                  > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 7:07 AM
                                  > > > > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] day rate for photojournalists?
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > what are some of the going rates charged as the day rate for photojouralism
                                  > > > > > jobs?
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > It's not a field I've worked in much, I know that it is obviously paying
                                  > > > > > less than e.g. advertising,
                                  > > > > > but beyond that i"m a bit in the dark.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > thanks,
                                  > > > > > Jeffrey
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Scott Highton
                                  Pricing photography (for any market or use) is not difficult to do. Certainly, talking with others experienced in the field and learning about the rates they
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 6, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Pricing photography (for any market or use) is not difficult to do.
                                    Certainly, talking with others experienced in the field and learning
                                    about the rates they get regularly is important, but this should never
                                    be solely used to determine your own rates. The rates you need to
                                    charge in your business are unique to your business, as you have
                                    different costs of doing business (CODB), work in different markets,
                                    and bring your own unique skills, tools and experience to your clients
                                    than other photographers.

                                    A photographer's prices need to be determined based on the business
                                    and income needs of that photographer. These can be calculated on a
                                    very simple spreadsheet, or via a variety of online CODB calculators.
                                    Basically, you need to add up all the expenses you expect to have to
                                    run your business in a year (rent/mortgage, salary, utilities,
                                    equipment purchase/rentals, insurance, advertising, web site
                                    development, hosting fees, continuing education, vehicle expenses,
                                    permits/licenses, professional dues, depreciation, profit, etc.) and
                                    then divide this number by the days work you expect to bill clients
                                    for during that year. This provides you with a MINIMUM day rate that
                                    you need to charge just to keep your doors open for business.

                                    If you accept less than this – for ANY assignment – you are losing
                                    money.


                                    Photojournalism has traditionally been one of the lowest paying forms
                                    of photography, but many photographers loved doing it because it
                                    allowed the most creativity and expression of their personal vision.
                                    It also offered an opportunity to work on extended assignments and to
                                    tell visual stories in depth and detail.

                                    Unfortunately, all that has changed in recent years. Photojournalism
                                    for newspapers and magazines has been "dumbed down" by corporate
                                    accountants and lawyers, who insist that costs for visual art (and
                                    editorial content in general) in their publications be cut to the
                                    bone. Instead of in depth photo essays, a single staged photo is
                                    deemed sufficient. Sometimes, it's less than that. Editorial day
                                    rates have lagged significantly.

                                    Here in the U.S., an editorial day rate of $400 - $500 per day was
                                    common for magazine photojournalism 20 years ago. It had not changed
                                    much in the 20 years prior to that, so photojournalists were already
                                    making less money due to the effects of inflation. Yet today,
                                    magazine photography assignments are few and far between, and many
                                    publications insist on paying a low HOURLY rate or a flat fee, rather
                                    than a day rate for their assignment photographers. Most editorial
                                    photography is acquired by publications by scouring the web, often
                                    paying pennies for use of an image from the many low cost (or free)
                                    photo sharing and stock sites. Photographers here in the U.S. who are
                                    lucky enough to get editorial or photojournalism assignments rarely
                                    earn any day rate higher than they did 20 years ago.

                                    Newspapers pay far less. Some offer between $10 and $25 for an
                                    editorial assignment, and also insist on owning the copyrights to the
                                    images the photographer creates.



                                    It is quite amazing to me to hear that photographers in Europe often
                                    receive $900 or $1,000/day (US) for such work. Having a guild or
                                    union that sets standard rates certainly seems to have helped in that
                                    regard. Here in the U.S., anti-trust laws prohibit independent
                                    photographers from collectively setting or negotiating rates. This is
                                    deemed price fixing, and is illegal. Only unions representing
                                    salaried employees (not independent business people) are allowed to
                                    set/negotiate salaries or rates in this manner. The American Society
                                    of Magazine Photographers (ASMP) served as a guild for independent
                                    photographers (mostly photojournalists) for many years, but lost its
                                    guild status in the late 70s due to U.S. anti-trust laws. Today, ASMP
                                    does little more than try to educate photographers about good business
                                    practices, and does what little it can to advocate for them in
                                    Congress and our judicial system.

                                    The important thing to remember is that when you are providing a
                                    service (such as photography) to a client, YOU are the one who should
                                    be setting your rates and determining what you charge – NOT your
                                    client. When we let clients set our rates for us (by letting them
                                    determine what we will be paid), we basically turn over control of our
                                    businesses to them. We need to remember that they are necessarily
                                    looking after THEIR own best interests, not ours. Imagine how
                                    preposterous it would be for one of us to walk into a new car dealer
                                    and say "I know this car is worth $25,000, but I'm only going to pay
                                    you $800 for it..." and then having the car dealer agree because they
                                    mistakenly believe that ANY sale is better than no sale.
                                    Unfortunately, that's exactly what many short sighted photographers do
                                    when they allow their clients to determine how much they'll pay for
                                    that photographer's work.

                                    If the rates you need to charge in order to receive fair value for
                                    your work don't work for the market you are in, then you either need
                                    to modify your costs of doing business (CODB), or work in a different
                                    market that will. Most photographers who previously made even a
                                    modest living shooting photojournalism, no longer do so because that
                                    market can't support ANY business these days.



                                    We have quite a bit of information about pricing for VR (and other)
                                    photography on the vrphotography.com web site. There is also a free
                                    Photo Business Fee Calculator (CODB) which you can download for Mac or
                                    Windows, which will help you determine what your own rates should be
                                    based on your own business situation.

                                    It can be found at:
                                    http://www.vrphotography.com/data/pages/onlinetools/onlinetools.html

                                    Regards,




                                    Scott Highton
                                    Author, Virtual Reality Photography
                                    Web: http://www.vrphotography.com
                                  • Briar
                                    Thank you for this excellent breakdown of business costing Scott, many of us fail to separate the artistic from the business side an suffer accordingly. Is
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jan 6, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Thank you for this excellent breakdown of business costing Scott, many of us
                                      fail to separate the artistic from the business side an suffer accordingly.

                                      Is your HDR book still available? Briar.

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      Behalf Of Scott Highton
                                      Sent: Friday, 7 January 2011 7:45 a.m.
                                      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: day rate for photojournalists?

                                      Pricing photography (for any market or use) is not difficult to do.
                                      Certainly, talking with others experienced in the field and learning about
                                      the rates they get regularly is important, but this should never be solely
                                      used to determine your own rates. The rates you need to charge in your
                                      business are unique to your business, as you have different costs of doing
                                      business (CODB), work in different markets, and bring your own unique
                                      skills, tools and experience to your clients than other photographers.

                                      A photographer's prices need to be determined based on the business and
                                      income needs of that photographer. These can be calculated on a
                                      very simple spreadsheet, or via a variety of online CODB calculators.
                                      Basically, you need to add up all the expenses you expect to have to run
                                      your business in a year (rent/mortgage, salary, utilities, equipment
                                      purchase/rentals, insurance, advertising, web site development, hosting
                                      fees, continuing education, vehicle expenses, permits/licenses, professional
                                      dues, depreciation, profit, etc.) and then divide this number by the days
                                      work you expect to bill clients for during that year. This provides you
                                      with a MINIMUM day rate that you need to charge just to keep your doors open
                                      for business.

                                      If you accept less than this - for ANY assignment - you are losing money.


                                      Photojournalism has traditionally been one of the lowest paying forms of
                                      photography, but many photographers loved doing it because it
                                      allowed the most creativity and expression of their personal vision.
                                      It also offered an opportunity to work on extended assignments and to tell
                                      visual stories in depth and detail.

                                      Unfortunately, all that has changed in recent years. Photojournalism for
                                      newspapers and magazines has been "dumbed down" by corporate accountants and
                                      lawyers, who insist that costs for visual art (and editorial content in
                                      general) in their publications be cut to the bone. Instead of in depth
                                      photo essays, a single staged photo is deemed sufficient. Sometimes, it's
                                      less than that. Editorial day rates have lagged significantly.

                                      Here in the U.S., an editorial day rate of $400 - $500 per day was common
                                      for magazine photojournalism 20 years ago. It had not changed much in the
                                      20 years prior to that, so photojournalists were already making less money
                                      due to the effects of inflation. Yet today, magazine photography
                                      assignments are few and far between, and many publications insist on paying
                                      a low HOURLY rate or a flat fee, rather than a day rate for their assignment
                                      photographers. Most editorial photography is acquired by publications by
                                      scouring the web, often paying pennies for use of an image from the many low
                                      cost (or free) photo sharing and stock sites. Photographers here in the
                                      U.S. who are lucky enough to get editorial or photojournalism assignments
                                      rarely earn any day rate higher than they did 20 years ago.

                                      Newspapers pay far less. Some offer between $10 and $25 for an editorial
                                      assignment, and also insist on owning the copyrights to the images the
                                      photographer creates.



                                      It is quite amazing to me to hear that photographers in Europe often receive
                                      $900 or $1,000/day (US) for such work. Having a guild or union that sets
                                      standard rates certainly seems to have helped in that regard. Here in the
                                      U.S., anti-trust laws prohibit independent photographers from collectively
                                      setting or negotiating rates. This is deemed price fixing, and is illegal.
                                      Only unions representing salaried employees (not independent business
                                      people) are allowed to set/negotiate salaries or rates in this manner. The
                                      American Society of Magazine Photographers (ASMP) served as a guild for
                                      independent photographers (mostly photojournalists) for many years, but lost
                                      its guild status in the late 70s due to U.S. anti-trust laws. Today, ASMP
                                      does little more than try to educate photographers about good business
                                      practices, and does what little it can to advocate for them in Congress and
                                      our judicial system.

                                      The important thing to remember is that when you are providing a service
                                      (such as photography) to a client, YOU are the one who should be setting
                                      your rates and determining what you charge - NOT your client. When we let
                                      clients set our rates for us (by letting them determine what we will be
                                      paid), we basically turn over control of our businesses to them. We need to
                                      remember that they are necessarily looking after THEIR own best interests,
                                      not ours. Imagine how preposterous it would be for one of us to walk into a
                                      new car dealer and say "I know this car is worth $25,000, but I'm only going
                                      to pay you $800 for it..." and then having the car dealer agree because they

                                      mistakenly believe that ANY sale is better than no sale.
                                      Unfortunately, that's exactly what many short sighted photographers do when
                                      they allow their clients to determine how much they'll pay for that
                                      photographer's work.

                                      If the rates you need to charge in order to receive fair value for your work
                                      don't work for the market you are in, then you either need to modify your
                                      costs of doing business (CODB), or work in a different market that will.
                                      Most photographers who previously made even a modest living shooting
                                      photojournalism, no longer do so because that market can't support ANY
                                      business these days.



                                      We have quite a bit of information about pricing for VR (and other)
                                      photography on the vrphotography.com web site. There is also a free Photo
                                      Business Fee Calculator (CODB) which you can download for Mac or Windows,
                                      which will help you determine what your own rates should be based on your
                                      own business situation.

                                      It can be found at:
                                      http://www.vrphotography.com/data/pages/onlinetools/onlinetools.html

                                      Regards,




                                      Scott Highton
                                      Author, Virtual Reality Photography
                                      Web: http://www.vrphotography.com



                                      ------------------------------------

                                      --
                                    • Christian Bloch
                                      Hi Scott, Thank you for this interesting insight in photo journalism. A very similar thing happened in the VFX world over here. Not so much with individuals,
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jan 6, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi Scott,

                                        Thank you for this interesting insight in photo journalism. A very similar thing happened in the VFX world over here. Not so much with individuals, because this type of work is usually a team effort, but nevertheless there is only a handful of clients: the movie studios. They started to control pricing, there is no union for VFX, and it turned into a race to the bottom. Many respectable VFX companies went under, there is really no winner in this game.
                                        Here's a great short to this topic:
                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

                                        .Blochi

                                        On Jan 6, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Scott Highton wrote:

                                        > Pricing photography (for any market or use) is not difficult to do.
                                        > Certainly, talking with others experienced in the field and learning
                                        > about the rates they get regularly is important, but this should never
                                        > be solely used to determine your own rates. The rates you need to
                                        > charge in your business are unique to your business, as you have
                                        > different costs of doing business (CODB), work in different markets,
                                        > and bring your own unique skills, tools and experience to your clients
                                        > than other photographers.
                                        >
                                        > A photographer's prices need to be determined based on the business
                                        > and income needs of that photographer. These can be calculated on a
                                        > very simple spreadsheet, or via a variety of online CODB calculators.
                                        > Basically, you need to add up all the expenses you expect to have to
                                        > run your business in a year (rent/mortgage, salary, utilities,
                                        > equipment purchase/rentals, insurance, advertising, web site
                                        > development, hosting fees, continuing education, vehicle expenses,
                                        > permits/licenses, professional dues, depreciation, profit, etc.) and
                                        > then divide this number by the days work you expect to bill clients
                                        > for during that year. This provides you with a MINIMUM day rate that
                                        > you need to charge just to keep your doors open for business.
                                        >
                                        > If you accept less than this – for ANY assignment – you are losing
                                        > money.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Photojournalism has traditionally been one of the lowest paying forms
                                        > of photography, but many photographers loved doing it because it
                                        > allowed the most creativity and expression of their personal vision.
                                        > It also offered an opportunity to work on extended assignments and to
                                        > tell visual stories in depth and detail.
                                        >
                                        > Unfortunately, all that has changed in recent years. Photojournalism
                                        > for newspapers and magazines has been "dumbed down" by corporate
                                        > accountants and lawyers, who insist that costs for visual art (and
                                        > editorial content in general) in their publications be cut to the
                                        > bone. Instead of in depth photo essays, a single staged photo is
                                        > deemed sufficient. Sometimes, it's less than that. Editorial day
                                        > rates have lagged significantly.
                                        >
                                        > Here in the U.S., an editorial day rate of $400 - $500 per day was
                                        > common for magazine photojournalism 20 years ago. It had not changed
                                        > much in the 20 years prior to that, so photojournalists were already
                                        > making less money due to the effects of inflation. Yet today,
                                        > magazine photography assignments are few and far between, and many
                                        > publications insist on paying a low HOURLY rate or a flat fee, rather
                                        > than a day rate for their assignment photographers. Most editorial
                                        > photography is acquired by publications by scouring the web, often
                                        > paying pennies for use of an image from the many low cost (or free)
                                        > photo sharing and stock sites. Photographers here in the U.S. who are
                                        > lucky enough to get editorial or photojournalism assignments rarely
                                        > earn any day rate higher than they did 20 years ago.
                                        >
                                        > Newspapers pay far less. Some offer between $10 and $25 for an
                                        > editorial assignment, and also insist on owning the copyrights to the
                                        > images the photographer creates.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > It is quite amazing to me to hear that photographers in Europe often
                                        > receive $900 or $1,000/day (US) for such work. Having a guild or
                                        > union that sets standard rates certainly seems to have helped in that
                                        > regard. Here in the U.S., anti-trust laws prohibit independent
                                        > photographers from collectively setting or negotiating rates. This is
                                        > deemed price fixing, and is illegal. Only unions representing
                                        > salaried employees (not independent business people) are allowed to
                                        > set/negotiate salaries or rates in this manner. The American Society
                                        > of Magazine Photographers (ASMP) served as a guild for independent
                                        > photographers (mostly photojournalists) for many years, but lost its
                                        > guild status in the late 70s due to U.S. anti-trust laws. Today, ASMP
                                        > does little more than try to educate photographers about good business
                                        > practices, and does what little it can to advocate for them in
                                        > Congress and our judicial system.
                                        >
                                        > The important thing to remember is that when you are providing a
                                        > service (such as photography) to a client, YOU are the one who should
                                        > be setting your rates and determining what you charge – NOT your
                                        > client. When we let clients set our rates for us (by letting them
                                        > determine what we will be paid), we basically turn over control of our
                                        > businesses to them. We need to remember that they are necessarily
                                        > looking after THEIR own best interests, not ours. Imagine how
                                        > preposterous it would be for one of us to walk into a new car dealer
                                        > and say "I know this car is worth $25,000, but I'm only going to pay
                                        > you $800 for it..." and then having the car dealer agree because they
                                        > mistakenly believe that ANY sale is better than no sale.
                                        > Unfortunately, that's exactly what many short sighted photographers do
                                        > when they allow their clients to determine how much they'll pay for
                                        > that photographer's work.
                                        >
                                        > If the rates you need to charge in order to receive fair value for
                                        > your work don't work for the market you are in, then you either need
                                        > to modify your costs of doing business (CODB), or work in a different
                                        > market that will. Most photographers who previously made even a
                                        > modest living shooting photojournalism, no longer do so because that
                                        > market can't support ANY business these days.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > We have quite a bit of information about pricing for VR (and other)
                                        > photography on the vrphotography.com web site. There is also a free
                                        > Photo Business Fee Calculator (CODB) which you can download for Mac or
                                        > Windows, which will help you determine what your own rates should be
                                        > based on your own business situation.
                                        >
                                        > It can be found at:
                                        > http://www.vrphotography.com/data/pages/onlinetools/onlinetools.html
                                        >
                                        > Regards,
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Scott Highton
                                        > Author, Virtual Reality Photography
                                        > Web: http://www.vrphotography.com
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • jefffreymartin
                                        Hi Scott, The number of days I expect to bill clients in 2011 is higher than zero. ;-) Call me pessimistic or whatever. This is the case. So, how do I price my
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jan 7, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Scott,

                                          The number of days I expect to bill clients in 2011 is higher than zero.

                                          ;-)

                                          Call me pessimistic or whatever. This is the case. So, how do I price my work?

                                          I am (like some other people on this list, and unlike some other people) an entrepreneur, which you could call "working 60 hour weeks for less than minimum wage" (yeah it suddently doesn't sound so romantic does it)

                                          So while the "take your lifestyle, divide it by X, multiply by work days Y" is cute, it has almost no bearing on how I can estimate what I should fairly charge people. Sometimes that sweet job lands on your lap. Sometimes it doesn't.

                                          Should you be humble and do sweet job for 5% of the going rate? Probably bad for your own career, and for your industry.

                                          At any rate, I do appreciate your and everyone else's input to this matter. I am now much more confident on the price I can quote for such jobs, and how to negotiate it in the context of photojournalism specifically.

                                          Thanks everybody!
                                          Jeffrey



                                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Highton <scott@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Pricing photography (for any market or use) is not difficult to do.
                                          > Certainly, talking with others experienced in the field and learning
                                          > about the rates they get regularly is important, but this should never
                                          > be solely used to determine your own rates. The rates you need to
                                          > charge in your business are unique to your business, as you have
                                          > different costs of doing business (CODB), work in different markets,
                                          > and bring your own unique skills, tools and experience to your clients
                                          > than other photographers.
                                          >
                                          > A photographer's prices need to be determined based on the business
                                          > and income needs of that photographer. These can be calculated on a
                                          > very simple spreadsheet, or via a variety of online CODB calculators.
                                          > Basically, you need to add up all the expenses you expect to have to
                                          > run your business in a year (rent/mortgage, salary, utilities,
                                          > equipment purchase/rentals, insurance, advertising, web site
                                          > development, hosting fees, continuing education, vehicle expenses,
                                          > permits/licenses, professional dues, depreciation, profit, etc.) and
                                          > then divide this number by the days work you expect to bill clients
                                          > for during that year. This provides you with a MINIMUM day rate that
                                          > you need to charge just to keep your doors open for business.
                                          >
                                          > If you accept less than this � for ANY assignment � you are losing
                                          > money.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Photojournalism has traditionally been one of the lowest paying forms
                                          > of photography, but many photographers loved doing it because it
                                          > allowed the most creativity and expression of their personal vision.
                                          > It also offered an opportunity to work on extended assignments and to
                                          > tell visual stories in depth and detail.
                                          >
                                          > Unfortunately, all that has changed in recent years. Photojournalism
                                          > for newspapers and magazines has been "dumbed down" by corporate
                                          > accountants and lawyers, who insist that costs for visual art (and
                                          > editorial content in general) in their publications be cut to the
                                          > bone. Instead of in depth photo essays, a single staged photo is
                                          > deemed sufficient. Sometimes, it's less than that. Editorial day
                                          > rates have lagged significantly.
                                          >
                                          > Here in the U.S., an editorial day rate of $400 - $500 per day was
                                          > common for magazine photojournalism 20 years ago. It had not changed
                                          > much in the 20 years prior to that, so photojournalists were already
                                          > making less money due to the effects of inflation. Yet today,
                                          > magazine photography assignments are few and far between, and many
                                          > publications insist on paying a low HOURLY rate or a flat fee, rather
                                          > than a day rate for their assignment photographers. Most editorial
                                          > photography is acquired by publications by scouring the web, often
                                          > paying pennies for use of an image from the many low cost (or free)
                                          > photo sharing and stock sites. Photographers here in the U.S. who are
                                          > lucky enough to get editorial or photojournalism assignments rarely
                                          > earn any day rate higher than they did 20 years ago.
                                          >
                                          > Newspapers pay far less. Some offer between $10 and $25 for an
                                          > editorial assignment, and also insist on owning the copyrights to the
                                          > images the photographer creates.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > It is quite amazing to me to hear that photographers in Europe often
                                          > receive $900 or $1,000/day (US) for such work. Having a guild or
                                          > union that sets standard rates certainly seems to have helped in that
                                          > regard. Here in the U.S., anti-trust laws prohibit independent
                                          > photographers from collectively setting or negotiating rates. This is
                                          > deemed price fixing, and is illegal. Only unions representing
                                          > salaried employees (not independent business people) are allowed to
                                          > set/negotiate salaries or rates in this manner. The American Society
                                          > of Magazine Photographers (ASMP) served as a guild for independent
                                          > photographers (mostly photojournalists) for many years, but lost its
                                          > guild status in the late 70s due to U.S. anti-trust laws. Today, ASMP
                                          > does little more than try to educate photographers about good business
                                          > practices, and does what little it can to advocate for them in
                                          > Congress and our judicial system.
                                          >
                                          > The important thing to remember is that when you are providing a
                                          > service (such as photography) to a client, YOU are the one who should
                                          > be setting your rates and determining what you charge � NOT your
                                          > client. When we let clients set our rates for us (by letting them
                                          > determine what we will be paid), we basically turn over control of our
                                          > businesses to them. We need to remember that they are necessarily
                                          > looking after THEIR own best interests, not ours. Imagine how
                                          > preposterous it would be for one of us to walk into a new car dealer
                                          > and say "I know this car is worth $25,000, but I'm only going to pay
                                          > you $800 for it..." and then having the car dealer agree because they
                                          > mistakenly believe that ANY sale is better than no sale.
                                          > Unfortunately, that's exactly what many short sighted photographers do
                                          > when they allow their clients to determine how much they'll pay for
                                          > that photographer's work.
                                          >
                                          > If the rates you need to charge in order to receive fair value for
                                          > your work don't work for the market you are in, then you either need
                                          > to modify your costs of doing business (CODB), or work in a different
                                          > market that will. Most photographers who previously made even a
                                          > modest living shooting photojournalism, no longer do so because that
                                          > market can't support ANY business these days.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > We have quite a bit of information about pricing for VR (and other)
                                          > photography on the vrphotography.com web site. There is also a free
                                          > Photo Business Fee Calculator (CODB) which you can download for Mac or
                                          > Windows, which will help you determine what your own rates should be
                                          > based on your own business situation.
                                          >
                                          > It can be found at:
                                          > http://www.vrphotography.com/data/pages/onlinetools/onlinetools.html
                                          >
                                          > Regards,
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Scott Highton
                                          > Author, Virtual Reality Photography
                                          > Web: http://www.vrphotography.com
                                          >
                                        • Scott Highton
                                          Hi Briar, Actually, my book is on VR photography, not HDR. And yes, it is still available. You can order it online at:
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jan 7, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi Briar,

                                            Actually, my book is on VR photography, not HDR. And yes, it is still
                                            available.

                                            You can order it online at:
                                            http://www.vrphotography.com/bookpromo.html

                                            Regards,



                                            Scott Highton
                                            Author, Virtual Reality Photography
                                            Web: http://www.vrphotography.com

                                            ------------------------------------------------

                                            Briar Bentley wrote:
                                            >Thank you for this excellent breakdown of business costing Scott,
                                            many of us
                                            >fail to separate the artistic from the business side an suffer
                                            accordingly.
                                            >
                                            >Is your HDR book still available? Briar.

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.