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Re: Best settings for autopano to connect all images?

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  • prague
    hi manfred, that sounds totally insane. i would try autopano giga which can guess the positions of unknown images really well. otherwise, it seems like you
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 4, 2011
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      hi manfred,

      that sounds totally insane.

      i would try autopano giga which can guess the positions of unknown images really well.

      otherwise, it seems like you have some kind of problem in your workflow. i have never shot a pano with so many orphan images. never! and i have shot tons of panos containing tens or hundreds of shots. you might consider using a robot which is papywizard compatible and lets you send your images to the stitcher with the position already known.


      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Manfred Kr�ger <Manfred_Kroeger@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Jeffrey,
      >
      > yes, I still use this outdated software because the results are better.
      > At least for the images I tend to shoot (outdoors, large mosaics, quite
      > long and focal length when compared with all the fish eye lenses lots of
      > people here use).
      >
      > Actually I do use PTGui. It's definitely good to align the images for a
      > first time. It's really fast! Then I get the links to the overlapping
      > image pairs. At that point, if there are overlapping images without CPs,
      > it's the best idea to let autopano find CPs, with a "size" parameter
      > value set to 1500 or 2500. That may help a bit but far too often that is
      > where my (tedious mouse clicking) nightmare begins. :-(
      >
      > I have to click on the link to "1 and 2" and "2 and 3"... and try
      > PTGui... CTRL-SHIFT-G ... For some of the overlapping image pairs it can
      > find control points but if it does not find any I have to run autopano
      > on those two current images: click on "control points" menu ... click on
      > "autopano image 1 and 2" menu entry ... and ... wait ... because ...
      > with ... a ... size ... parameter ... value ... of ... 2500 ... or ...
      > 5000 ... this ... will ... take ... a ... while. :-(
      >
      > I also use a macro recorder which can simulate the clicking and mouse
      > movements while I sleep.
      >
      > But that can't be it! This can't be the state-of-the-art workflow nowadays.
      >
      > I know I have to set the control points by myself, but I don't want to
      > do this for that many overlapping images. Actually, why should I do
      > this? The software *can* find (most of) the control points when *it is
      > used in a special way*. So, the software *should* be able to help me.
      >
      > PTGui does not support this workflow at all (no configurable CP
      > generator, no automatic function to do this for all unlinked image pairs
      > although all the information it needs are available to it) and I can't
      > find the right settings for autopano which, by looking at the
      > documentation, should do exactly what I want to do: Build a list of
      > "interesting" points for all images and try to see for *all* image pairs
      > if they are linked.
      >
      >
      > Manfred
      >
      > On 03.01.2011 13:19, prague wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > hi,
      > >
      > > you are using the autopano plugin inside ptgui to create control points?
      > >
      > > not sure why you'd want to do that. it's about 4 years old - quite
      > > slow and out of date by now. the ptgui control point generator is much
      > > (10x ?) faster and otherwise better.
      > >
      > > you can also try the autopano pro software, which sometimes does a
      > > better job guessing the unknown positions of images.
      > >
      > > if your images "Not all of them have many details" as you say, then
      > > you might need to make manual control points yourself - in that case
      > > ptgui is easier to use IMO.
      > >
      > > Jeffrey
      > >
      > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Manfred Kr�ger
      > > <Manfred_Kroeger@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi!
      > > >
      > > > I'm trying to find the best settings for autopano but it's not that
      > > > easy. I recently took a lot of pictures with different exposures to
      > > > create HDR images. Not all of them have many details and PTGui and
      > > > autopano quite often fail to find control points but since I don't
      > > use a
      > > > tripod I found out that I get the best results if all overlapping
      > > images
      > > > are linked by control points.
      > > >
      > > > Unfortunately PTGui does not support the user in creating that many
      > > > control points. It can show me which pictures are overlapping and are
      > > > not linked by control points. Ok, that's a first step but then I
      > > have to
      > > > click on the link to the two images and afterwards I have to click on
      > > > "Generate control points for images 1 and 2". That's not what I call
      > > the
      > > > optimum workflow... PTGui knows which images are linked so it could run
      > > > autopano on all those image pairs. But that would mean that autopano
      > > > would have to find control points for the images multiple times (1 and
      > > > 2, 1 and 3, 2 and 3, 2 and 4, ...) which also is not the best way since
      > > > it would take a long time.
      > > >
      > > > I would like to run autopano only once.
      > > >
      > > > I found out that autopano has can search for control points for all
      > > > image pairs but I have not found out how to get this to work. There are
      > > > too many other settings that have to be set.
      > > >
      > > > Currently I use these settings:
      > > >
      > > > /keys:4 /size:2500 /ransac_dist:40 /ransac_iter:2500000 /search:1
      > > > /validation:3
      > > >
      > > > I don't know where I found them but they work quite good for my
      > > pictures
      > > > (Nikon D90).
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I know I have to change the search algorithm to 3. Has somebody tried
      > > > this algorithm and found values for all the other settings that
      > > really work?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Best regards,
      > > > Manfred
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Manfred Kröger
      Hi! I know it sounds insane. That s why I m kind of frustrated and the reason why I asked for help. Fortunately this kind of workflow does not apply to all the
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 4, 2011
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        Hi!

        I know it sounds insane. That's why I'm kind of frustrated and the
        reason why I asked for help. Fortunately this kind of workflow does not
        apply to all the pictures I take. :-)

        I shoot panoramas in addition to normal photos and I don't carry a
        tripod around with me all the time, at least not during daylight hours.
        The still growing collection of lenses (from 10mm to 500mm) already
        weighs enough. :-) And, no, I won't buy a robot. It may improve my
        workflow and it would be a great new toy to play with but It would add
        even more weight to my backpack and/or luggage and that's one thing I
        definitely can't afford when going on vacation. Also, can you guess a
        panorama robot's WAF (wife acceptance factor)? :-)

        Actually I like PTGui more than Autopano Giga. I tried it once but it's
        not my kind of GUI. It may work to get preview pictures in an automated
        way though. Or can it output a PTGui project file? I think I will take
        another look at it....


        Manfred

        On 04.01.2011 16:15, prague wrote:
        >
        >
        > hi manfred,
        >
        > that sounds totally insane.
        >
        > i would try autopano giga which can guess the positions of unknown
        > images really well.
        >
        > otherwise, it seems like you have some kind of problem in your
        > workflow. i have never shot a pano with so many orphan images. never!
        > and i have shot tons of panos containing tens or hundreds of shots.
        > you might consider using a robot which is papywizard compatible and
        > lets you send your images to the stitcher with the position already known.
        >
        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Manfred Kr�ger
        > <Manfred_Kroeger@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Jeffrey,
        > >
        > > yes, I still use this outdated software because the results are better.
        > > At least for the images I tend to shoot (outdoors, large mosaics, quite
        > > long and focal length when compared with all the fish eye lenses
        > lots of
        > > people here use).
        > >
        > > Actually I do use PTGui. It's definitely good to align the images for a
        > > first time. It's really fast! Then I get the links to the overlapping
        > > image pairs. At that point, if there are overlapping images without
        > CPs,
        > > it's the best idea to let autopano find CPs, with a "size" parameter
        > > value set to 1500 or 2500. That may help a bit but far too often
        > that is
        > > where my (tedious mouse clicking) nightmare begins. :-(
        > >
        > > I have to click on the link to "1 and 2" and "2 and 3"... and try
        > > PTGui... CTRL-SHIFT-G ... For some of the overlapping image pairs it
        > can
        > > find control points but if it does not find any I have to run autopano
        > > on those two current images: click on "control points" menu ...
        > click on
        > > "autopano image 1 and 2" menu entry ... and ... wait ... because ...
        > > with ... a ... size ... parameter ... value ... of ... 2500 ... or ...
        > > 5000 ... this ... will ... take ... a ... while. :-(
        > >
        > > I also use a macro recorder which can simulate the clicking and mouse
        > > movements while I sleep.
        > >
        > > But that can't be it! This can't be the state-of-the-art workflow
        > nowadays.
        > >
        > > I know I have to set the control points by myself, but I don't want to
        > > do this for that many overlapping images. Actually, why should I do
        > > this? The software *can* find (most of) the control points when *it is
        > > used in a special way*. So, the software *should* be able to help me.
        > >
        > > PTGui does not support this workflow at all (no configurable CP
        > > generator, no automatic function to do this for all unlinked image
        > pairs
        > > although all the information it needs are available to it) and I can't
        > > find the right settings for autopano which, by looking at the
        > > documentation, should do exactly what I want to do: Build a list of
        > > "interesting" points for all images and try to see for *all* image
        > pairs
        > > if they are linked.
        > >
        > >
        > > Manfred
        > >
        > > On 03.01.2011 13:19, prague wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > hi,
        > > >
        > > > you are using the autopano plugin inside ptgui to create control
        > points?
        > > >
        > > > not sure why you'd want to do that. it's about 4 years old - quite
        > > > slow and out of date by now. the ptgui control point generator is
        > much
        > > > (10x ?) faster and otherwise better.
        > > >
        > > > you can also try the autopano pro software, which sometimes does a
        > > > better job guessing the unknown positions of images.
        > > >
        > > > if your images "Not all of them have many details" as you say, then
        > > > you might need to make manual control points yourself - in that case
        > > > ptgui is easier to use IMO.
        > > >
        > > > Jeffrey
        > > >
        > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Manfred Kr�ger
        > > > <Manfred_Kroeger@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi!
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm trying to find the best settings for autopano but it's not that
        > > > > easy. I recently took a lot of pictures with different exposures to
        > > > > create HDR images. Not all of them have many details and PTGui and
        > > > > autopano quite often fail to find control points but since I don't
        > > > use a
        > > > > tripod I found out that I get the best results if all overlapping
        > > > images
        > > > > are linked by control points.
        > > > >
        > > > > Unfortunately PTGui does not support the user in creating that many
        > > > > control points. It can show me which pictures are overlapping
        > and are
        > > > > not linked by control points. Ok, that's a first step but then I
        > > > have to
        > > > > click on the link to the two images and afterwards I have to
        > click on
        > > > > "Generate control points for images 1 and 2". That's not what I
        > call
        > > > the
        > > > > optimum workflow... PTGui knows which images are linked so it
        > could run
        > > > > autopano on all those image pairs. But that would mean that autopano
        > > > > would have to find control points for the images multiple times
        > (1 and
        > > > > 2, 1 and 3, 2 and 3, 2 and 4, ...) which also is not the best
        > way since
        > > > > it would take a long time.
        > > > >
        > > > > I would like to run autopano only once.
        > > > >
        > > > > I found out that autopano has can search for control points for all
        > > > > image pairs but I have not found out how to get this to work.
        > There are
        > > > > too many other settings that have to be set.
        > > > >
        > > > > Currently I use these settings:
        > > > >
        > > > > /keys:4 /size:2500 /ransac_dist:40 /ransac_iter:2500000 /search:1
        > > > > /validation:3
        > > > >
        > > > > I don't know where I found them but they work quite good for my
        > > > pictures
        > > > > (Nikon D90).
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > I know I have to change the search algorithm to 3. Has somebody
        > tried
        > > > > this algorithm and found values for all the other settings that
        > > > really work?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Best regards,
        > > > > Manfred
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • prague
        HI Manfred, I also prefer ptgui because i used it for many years. however on the london gigapixel there were a few bits that i couldnt stitch properly, and a
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 6, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          HI Manfred,

          I also prefer ptgui because i used it for many years. however on the london gigapixel there were a few bits that i couldnt' stitch properly, and a couple features in autopano giga allowed me to fix it. specifically, being able to view the "stitching quality" of specific images, and then local CP generation / optimization of specific clusters of images. And, picking the orphan images and saying "put these in between the other images" which worked.

          Bernhard Vogl was the first maniac to describe a workflow using both autopano pro/giga and Ptgui (he told me about it in lucerne in 2007) and it can work ok. Since Autopano Pro/giga has "panotools export" you can do first optimizations in APG and then export to PTGui.





          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Manfred Kröger <Manfred_Kroeger@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi!
          >
          > I know it sounds insane. That's why I'm kind of frustrated and the
          > reason why I asked for help. Fortunately this kind of workflow does not
          > apply to all the pictures I take. :-)
          >
          > I shoot panoramas in addition to normal photos and I don't carry a
          > tripod around with me all the time, at least not during daylight hours.
          > The still growing collection of lenses (from 10mm to 500mm) already
          > weighs enough. :-) And, no, I won't buy a robot. It may improve my
          > workflow and it would be a great new toy to play with but It would add
          > even more weight to my backpack and/or luggage and that's one thing I
          > definitely can't afford when going on vacation. Also, can you guess a
          > panorama robot's WAF (wife acceptance factor)? :-)
          >
          > Actually I like PTGui more than Autopano Giga. I tried it once but it's
          > not my kind of GUI. It may work to get preview pictures in an automated
          > way though. Or can it output a PTGui project file? I think I will take
          > another look at it....
          >
          >
          > Manfred
          >
          > On 04.01.2011 16:15, prague wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > hi manfred,
          > >
          > > that sounds totally insane.
          > >
          > > i would try autopano giga which can guess the positions of unknown
          > > images really well.
          > >
          > > otherwise, it seems like you have some kind of problem in your
          > > workflow. i have never shot a pano with so many orphan images. never!
          > > and i have shot tons of panos containing tens or hundreds of shots.
          > > you might consider using a robot which is papywizard compatible and
          > > lets you send your images to the stitcher with the position already known.
          > >
          > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Manfred Kr�ger
          > > <Manfred_Kroeger@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi Jeffrey,
          > > >
          > > > yes, I still use this outdated software because the results are better.
          > > > At least for the images I tend to shoot (outdoors, large mosaics, quite
          > > > long and focal length when compared with all the fish eye lenses
          > > lots of
          > > > people here use).
          > > >
          > > > Actually I do use PTGui. It's definitely good to align the images for a
          > > > first time. It's really fast! Then I get the links to the overlapping
          > > > image pairs. At that point, if there are overlapping images without
          > > CPs,
          > > > it's the best idea to let autopano find CPs, with a "size" parameter
          > > > value set to 1500 or 2500. That may help a bit but far too often
          > > that is
          > > > where my (tedious mouse clicking) nightmare begins. :-(
          > > >
          > > > I have to click on the link to "1 and 2" and "2 and 3"... and try
          > > > PTGui... CTRL-SHIFT-G ... For some of the overlapping image pairs it
          > > can
          > > > find control points but if it does not find any I have to run autopano
          > > > on those two current images: click on "control points" menu ...
          > > click on
          > > > "autopano image 1 and 2" menu entry ... and ... wait ... because ...
          > > > with ... a ... size ... parameter ... value ... of ... 2500 ... or ...
          > > > 5000 ... this ... will ... take ... a ... while. :-(
          > > >
          > > > I also use a macro recorder which can simulate the clicking and mouse
          > > > movements while I sleep.
          > > >
          > > > But that can't be it! This can't be the state-of-the-art workflow
          > > nowadays.
          > > >
          > > > I know I have to set the control points by myself, but I don't want to
          > > > do this for that many overlapping images. Actually, why should I do
          > > > this? The software *can* find (most of) the control points when *it is
          > > > used in a special way*. So, the software *should* be able to help me.
          > > >
          > > > PTGui does not support this workflow at all (no configurable CP
          > > > generator, no automatic function to do this for all unlinked image
          > > pairs
          > > > although all the information it needs are available to it) and I can't
          > > > find the right settings for autopano which, by looking at the
          > > > documentation, should do exactly what I want to do: Build a list of
          > > > "interesting" points for all images and try to see for *all* image
          > > pairs
          > > > if they are linked.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Manfred
          > > >
          > > > On 03.01.2011 13:19, prague wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > hi,
          > > > >
          > > > > you are using the autopano plugin inside ptgui to create control
          > > points?
          > > > >
          > > > > not sure why you'd want to do that. it's about 4 years old - quite
          > > > > slow and out of date by now. the ptgui control point generator is
          > > much
          > > > > (10x ?) faster and otherwise better.
          > > > >
          > > > > you can also try the autopano pro software, which sometimes does a
          > > > > better job guessing the unknown positions of images.
          > > > >
          > > > > if your images "Not all of them have many details" as you say, then
          > > > > you might need to make manual control points yourself - in that case
          > > > > ptgui is easier to use IMO.
          > > > >
          > > > > Jeffrey
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Manfred Kr�ger
          > > > > <Manfred_Kroeger@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Hi!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I'm trying to find the best settings for autopano but it's not that
          > > > > > easy. I recently took a lot of pictures with different exposures to
          > > > > > create HDR images. Not all of them have many details and PTGui and
          > > > > > autopano quite often fail to find control points but since I don't
          > > > > use a
          > > > > > tripod I found out that I get the best results if all overlapping
          > > > > images
          > > > > > are linked by control points.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Unfortunately PTGui does not support the user in creating that many
          > > > > > control points. It can show me which pictures are overlapping
          > > and are
          > > > > > not linked by control points. Ok, that's a first step but then I
          > > > > have to
          > > > > > click on the link to the two images and afterwards I have to
          > > click on
          > > > > > "Generate control points for images 1 and 2". That's not what I
          > > call
          > > > > the
          > > > > > optimum workflow... PTGui knows which images are linked so it
          > > could run
          > > > > > autopano on all those image pairs. But that would mean that autopano
          > > > > > would have to find control points for the images multiple times
          > > (1 and
          > > > > > 2, 1 and 3, 2 and 3, 2 and 4, ...) which also is not the best
          > > way since
          > > > > > it would take a long time.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I would like to run autopano only once.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I found out that autopano has can search for control points for all
          > > > > > image pairs but I have not found out how to get this to work.
          > > There are
          > > > > > too many other settings that have to be set.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Currently I use these settings:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > /keys:4 /size:2500 /ransac_dist:40 /ransac_iter:2500000 /search:1
          > > > > > /validation:3
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I don't know where I found them but they work quite good for my
          > > > > pictures
          > > > > > (Nikon D90).
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I know I have to change the search algorithm to 3. Has somebody
          > > tried
          > > > > > this algorithm and found values for all the other settings that
          > > > > really work?
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Best regards,
          > > > > > Manfred
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
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