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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Another attempt on 3D

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  • Roger D. Williams
    On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 01:29:28 +0900, jrgen_schrader ... And to you, Jurgen! ... I commented on this wonderful image on Facebook, so won t repeat that here.
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 1, 2011
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      On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 01:29:28 +0900, jrgen_schrader
      <panorama@...> wrote:

      > A happy new year to all of you!

      And to you, Jurgen!

      >
      > Here's one I did a couple of days before christmas.
      > I wanted to find out how the stereo-effect would reveal the depth
      > information of the trees when looking into the thicket.
      > Something that's almost impossible in a normal photo unless one finds
      > (or has the patience to wait for) a lucky lighting. And I was very
      > pleased with the result.
      >
      > http://bavaria360.de/winter/jungle.html

      I commented on this wonderful image on Facebook, so won't repeat that
      here. Anyone with the slightest interest in 3D panoramas should
      definitely see this one.

      > Of course there are still some issues, mostly because I wanted close
      > objects to be in the scene. But there is also a trunk that seems to be
      > split into different parts with different depth information, I haven't
      > sorted this out yet and I am curious to find out what causes this.

      Yes, I noticed this and wondered about it. Could it be that this is
      where a seam came? It might be worth checking the seam location in
      PTgui... I couldn't think of anything else.

      Roger W.

      --
      Business: www.adex-japan.com
      Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
    • matt_nolan_uaf
      Juergen, this is probably the most brilliant panorama I have seen since I saw my first regular one. I was skeptical about digging out some glasses, but amazed
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 1, 2011
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        Juergen, this is probably the most brilliant panorama I have seen since I saw my first regular one. I was skeptical about digging out some glasses, but amazed at how well this technique clarifies depth information. Here I think is an example of where higher resolution would really be useful as opposed to cool, such that you could zoom further into the woods and get the sense of movement in 3D.

        To (not) answer your question, I couldnt find the funny trunk, though I looked a lot for it. But not knowing anything about the technique, I probably would not have anything intelligent to say about it anyway. I searched the wiki and google for 3D panoramas, but was not effective. Are their any links you could recommend on this technique? I'd love to try this with some other applications.

        -Matt


        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@...> wrote:
        >
        > A happy new year to all of you!
        >
        > Here's one I did a couple of days before christmas.
        > I wanted to find out how the stereo-effect would reveal the depth information of the trees when looking into the thicket.
        > Something that's almost impossible in a normal photo unless one finds (or has the patience to wait for) a lucky lighting. And I was very pleased with the result.
        >
        > http://bavaria360.de/winter/jungle.html
        >
        > Of course there are still some issues, mostly because I wanted close objects to be in the scene. But there is also a trunk that seems to be split into different parts with different depth information, I haven't sorted this out yet and I am curious to find out what causes this.
        >
        > Enjoy
        > Jürgen
        >
      • Erik Krause
        ... It s the trunk pretty much opposed to the initial view, isn t? It looks like you exchanged left and right image for the bottom part. -- Erik Krause
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 2, 2011
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          Am 01.01.2011 17:29, schrieb jrgen_schrader:
          > But there is also a trunk that seems to be split into different parts
          > with different depth information, I haven't sorted this out yet and I
          > am curious to find out what causes this.

          It's the trunk pretty much opposed to the initial view, isn't? It looks
          like you exchanged left and right image for the bottom part.

          --
          Erik Krause
        • jrgen_schrader
          Thank you all for your kind words. I will have a look into the issues I mentioned and keep you updated. Erik, which bottom part do you mean? The logo or snow.
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 2, 2011
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            Thank you all for your kind words.
            I will have a look into the issues I mentioned and keep you updated.

            Erik, which bottom part do you mean? The logo or snow. In either case nothing was changed, but as we know anaglyphs may do funny things when it comes to zenit and nadirs, though.

            Best
            Jürgen

            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@...> wrote:
            >
            > A happy new year to all of you!
            >
            > Here's one I did a couple of days before christmas.
            > I wanted to find out how the stereo-effect would reveal the depth information of the trees when looking into the thicket.
            > Something that's almost impossible in a normal photo unless one finds (or has the patience to wait for) a lucky lighting. And I was very pleased with the result.
            >
            > http://bavaria360.de/winter/jungle.html
            >
            > Of course there are still some issues, mostly because I wanted close objects to be in the scene. But there is also a trunk that seems to be split into different parts with different depth information, I haven't sorted this out yet and I am curious to find out what causes this.
            >
            > Enjoy
            > Jürgen
            >
          • Erik Krause
            ... A foreground tree trunk opposite of the initial view. If you view it without anaglyph glasses the fringes change color shortly above the ground. -- Erik
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 2, 2011
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              Am 02.01.2011 19:36, schrieb jrgen_schrader:

              > Erik, which bottom part do you mean?

              A foreground tree trunk opposite of the initial view. If you view it
              without anaglyph glasses the fringes change color shortly above the ground.

              --
              Erik Krause
            • panovrx
              One way to quickly detect stereo glitches is to turn the stereo pair into a wiggle movie. For critical work I find projection stereo with shutter glasses or
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 2, 2011
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                One way to quickly detect stereo glitches is to turn the stereo pair into a wiggle movie. For critical work I find projection stereo with shutter glasses or polarizing glasses shows up errors most clearly. I use a DLP projector for this with shutter glasses with an OpenGl graphics card with glPanoram_VFX3D_stereo viewer
                http://www.gali-3d.com/archive/articles/VFX3D_headtracking/Headtracking.php

                PeterM

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                >
                > Am 02.01.2011 19:36, schrieb jrgen_schrader:
                >
                > > Erik, which bottom part do you mean?
                >
                > A foreground tree trunk opposite of the initial view. If you view it
                > without anaglyph glasses the fringes change color shortly above the ground.
                >
                > --
                > Erik Krause
                >
              • Wim Koornneef
                Hello Jürgen, For sure that is a nice 3D pano of a beautiful scene. I can t see a split trunk, perhaps it is only clearly visible on certain monitors. A
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 3, 2011
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                  Hello Jürgen,

                  For sure that is a nice 3D pano of a beautiful scene.
                  I can't see a split trunk, perhaps it is only clearly visible on certain
                  monitors.

                  A suggestion, I see some stereo window violation on the branches ( the ones
                  with a lot of snow hanging over the walking path in the opening view)
                  causing stress when viewing for some time, perhaps you can move the zero
                  stereo point a bit forward from the trunk to halfway the branches to reduce
                  this a bit.

                  The flipping colors that Erik is mentioning is something that I am familiar
                  with, it occurs whenever the background is more or less equal of color and
                  is of no importance.
                  Here is a 100% (or more) crop of one of my 3D panos where this flipping is
                  very extreme: http://www.dmmdh.nl/forum_images/mirorring_red_cyan_colors.jpg

                  I guess you shot this with a single cam, can you share the specs, forward
                  out of NPP shift, number of images and any other thing worth mentioning ?

                  Keep on posting as I like to see more of those nice 3D panos.

                  Best,
                  Wim
                  --
                  View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Another-attempt-on-3D-tp3170210p3171665.html
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                • Wim Koornneef
                  ... I made a typo, I meant zero parallax point instead of zero stereo point . Wim -- View this message in context:
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 3, 2011
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                    Wim Koornneef wrote:
                    > ....perhaps you can move the zero stereo point a bit forward from the
                    > trunk to halfway the branches to reduce this a bit....

                    I made a typo, I meant "zero parallax point" instead of "zero stereo point".
                    Wim
                    --
                    View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Another-attempt-on-3D-tp3170210p3171673.html
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                  • jrgen_schrader
                    Thanks for your suggestion, Wim. I had expected this violation because I knew that some objects would be too close to the camera to get near and far adjusted
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 4, 2011
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                      Thanks for your suggestion, Wim.
                      I had expected this violation because I knew that some objects would be too close to the camera to get near and far adjusted perfectly.
                      So I tried to find a compromise where the silhouettes are not too obvious.
                      By moving the stereo point do you mean I should try what you called smart masks in your tutorial?

                      I used the Tokina 10-7 at 12mm and 30 images. The Npp offset was about 3 cm, I can't tell exactly because I don't have a mark for that on my panoramic head since for regular panoramas I only use it with a ring.

                      Best
                      Jürgen

                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wim Koornneef <wim.koornneef@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Hello Jürgen,
                      >
                      > For sure that is a nice 3D pano of a beautiful scene.
                      > I can't see a split trunk, perhaps it is only clearly visible on certain
                      > monitors.
                      >
                      > A suggestion, I see some stereo window violation on the branches ( the ones
                      > with a lot of snow hanging over the walking path in the opening view)
                      > causing stress when viewing for some time, perhaps you can move the zero
                      > stereo point a bit forward from the trunk to halfway the branches to reduce
                      > this a bit.
                      >
                      > The flipping colors that Erik is mentioning is something that I am familiar
                      > with, it occurs whenever the background is more or less equal of color and
                      > is of no importance.
                      > Here is a 100% (or more) crop of one of my 3D panos where this flipping is
                      > very extreme: http://www.dmmdh.nl/forum_images/mirorring_red_cyan_colors.jpg
                      >
                      > I guess you shot this with a single cam, can you share the specs, forward
                      > out of NPP shift, number of images and any other thing worth mentioning ?
                      >
                      > Keep on posting as I like to see more of those nice 3D panos.
                      >
                      > Best,
                      > Wim
                      > --
                      > View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Another-attempt-on-3D-tp3170210p3171665.html
                      > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                      >
                    • Wim Koornneef
                      ... Hello Jürgen, No, I don t mean using a smart mask (although that could possible help to avoid some eye stress in zenith), what I mean is that you shift
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 4, 2011
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                        jrgen_schrader wrote:
                        > ....By moving the stereo point do you mean I should try what you called
                        > smart masks in your tutorial?...

                        Hello Jürgen,

                        No, I don't mean using a smart mask (although that could possible help to
                        avoid some eye stress in zenith), what I mean is that you shift the left and
                        right images in StereoPhoto Maker in such a way that the zero parallax point
                        is set close to the end of the branches and not in the trunk as it is now.

                        It is easiest to set the zero parallax point without using a red/cyan
                        viewer, first you pick a zero parallax point and then you shift the images
                        until you see no color fringes at the chosen point.
                        For this is best to view the anaglyph at 100%. The width and distance of the
                        color fringes will increase from zero at the chosen point to a maximum at
                        objects in the back of the scene.

                        If you want to reduce the eye stress in zenith as much as possible without
                        using a smart mask then it is best to set the zero parallax point at the end
                        of the branches and not somewhere between the end and the trunk.
                        If you set the zero parallax point at the end of the branches then you miss
                        the "popping out of the screen" 3D effect of the branches but it could be
                        very well that this will improve the overall quality in such a way that it
                        is a good trade off.
                        You have to try it out and see what works best.

                        BTW, I think you have chosen the right number of images and the proper NPP
                        forward shift, the 3D depth is really good and both me and Margriet like
                        your forest pano a lot.

                        Wim
                        --
                        View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Another-attempt-on-3D-tp3170210p3173789.html
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