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Best settings for autopano to connect all images?

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  • Manfred Kröger
    Hi! I m trying to find the best settings for autopano but it s not that easy. I recently took a lot of pictures with different exposures to create HDR images.
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 31, 2010
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      Hi!

      I'm trying to find the best settings for autopano but it's not that
      easy. I recently took a lot of pictures with different exposures to
      create HDR images. Not all of them have many details and PTGui and
      autopano quite often fail to find control points but since I don't use a
      tripod I found out that I get the best results if all overlapping images
      are linked by control points.

      Unfortunately PTGui does not support the user in creating that many
      control points. It can show me which pictures are overlapping and are
      not linked by control points. Ok, that's a first step but then I have to
      click on the link to the two images and afterwards I have to click on
      "Generate control points for images 1 and 2". That's not what I call the
      optimum workflow... PTGui knows which images are linked so it could run
      autopano on all those image pairs. But that would mean that autopano
      would have to find control points for the images multiple times (1 and
      2, 1 and 3, 2 and 3, 2 and 4, ...) which also is not the best way since
      it would take a long time.

      I would like to run autopano only once.

      I found out that autopano has can search for control points for all
      image pairs but I have not found out how to get this to work. There are
      too many other settings that have to be set.

      Currently I use these settings:

      /keys:4 /size:2500 /ransac_dist:40 /ransac_iter:2500000 /search:1
      /validation:3

      I don't know where I found them but they work quite good for my pictures
      (Nikon D90).


      I know I have to change the search algorithm to 3. Has somebody tried
      this algorithm and found values for all the other settings that really work?


      Best regards,
      Manfred
    • prague
      hi, you are using the autopano plugin inside ptgui to create control points? not sure why you d want to do that. it s about 4 years old - quite slow and out of
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 3, 2011
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        hi,

        you are using the autopano plugin inside ptgui to create control points?

        not sure why you'd want to do that. it's about 4 years old - quite slow and out of date by now. the ptgui control point generator is much (10x ?) faster and otherwise better.

        you can also try the autopano pro software, which sometimes does a better job guessing the unknown positions of images.

        if your images "Not all of them have many details" as you say, then you might need to make manual control points yourself - in that case ptgui is easier to use IMO.

        Jeffrey


        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Manfred Kr�ger <Manfred_Kroeger@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi!
        >
        > I'm trying to find the best settings for autopano but it's not that
        > easy. I recently took a lot of pictures with different exposures to
        > create HDR images. Not all of them have many details and PTGui and
        > autopano quite often fail to find control points but since I don't use a
        > tripod I found out that I get the best results if all overlapping images
        > are linked by control points.
        >
        > Unfortunately PTGui does not support the user in creating that many
        > control points. It can show me which pictures are overlapping and are
        > not linked by control points. Ok, that's a first step but then I have to
        > click on the link to the two images and afterwards I have to click on
        > "Generate control points for images 1 and 2". That's not what I call the
        > optimum workflow... PTGui knows which images are linked so it could run
        > autopano on all those image pairs. But that would mean that autopano
        > would have to find control points for the images multiple times (1 and
        > 2, 1 and 3, 2 and 3, 2 and 4, ...) which also is not the best way since
        > it would take a long time.
        >
        > I would like to run autopano only once.
        >
        > I found out that autopano has can search for control points for all
        > image pairs but I have not found out how to get this to work. There are
        > too many other settings that have to be set.
        >
        > Currently I use these settings:
        >
        > /keys:4 /size:2500 /ransac_dist:40 /ransac_iter:2500000 /search:1
        > /validation:3
        >
        > I don't know where I found them but they work quite good for my pictures
        > (Nikon D90).
        >
        >
        > I know I have to change the search algorithm to 3. Has somebody tried
        > this algorithm and found values for all the other settings that really work?
        >
        >
        > Best regards,
        > Manfred
        >
      • Rick Drew
        That s why I keep a pack of mini-post-it-notes in my camera bag, as well as various colored thumb-tacks, colored magnets and washes. This way I can add
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 3, 2011
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          That's why I keep a pack of mini-post-it-notes in my camera bag, as well as
          various colored thumb-tacks, colored magnets and washes. This way I can add
          control points at the shoot.



          Rick Drew



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Manfred Kröger
          Hi Jeffrey, yes, I still use this outdated software because the results are better. At least for the images I tend to shoot (outdoors, large mosaics, quite
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 3, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Jeffrey,

            yes, I still use this outdated software because the results are better.
            At least for the images I tend to shoot (outdoors, large mosaics, quite
            long and focal length when compared with all the fish eye lenses lots of
            people here use).

            Actually I do use PTGui. It's definitely good to align the images for a
            first time. It's really fast! Then I get the links to the overlapping
            image pairs. At that point, if there are overlapping images without CPs,
            it's the best idea to let autopano find CPs, with a "size" parameter
            value set to 1500 or 2500. That may help a bit but far too often that is
            where my (tedious mouse clicking) nightmare begins. :-(

            I have to click on the link to "1 and 2" and "2 and 3"... and try
            PTGui... CTRL-SHIFT-G ... For some of the overlapping image pairs it can
            find control points but if it does not find any I have to run autopano
            on those two current images: click on "control points" menu ... click on
            "autopano image 1 and 2" menu entry ... and ... wait ... because ...
            with ... a ... size ... parameter ... value ... of ... 2500 ... or ...
            5000 ... this ... will ... take ... a ... while. :-(

            I also use a macro recorder which can simulate the clicking and mouse
            movements while I sleep.

            But that can't be it! This can't be the state-of-the-art workflow nowadays.

            I know I have to set the control points by myself, but I don't want to
            do this for that many overlapping images. Actually, why should I do
            this? The software *can* find (most of) the control points when *it is
            used in a special way*. So, the software *should* be able to help me.

            PTGui does not support this workflow at all (no configurable CP
            generator, no automatic function to do this for all unlinked image pairs
            although all the information it needs are available to it) and I can't
            find the right settings for autopano which, by looking at the
            documentation, should do exactly what I want to do: Build a list of
            "interesting" points for all images and try to see for *all* image pairs
            if they are linked.


            Manfred

            On 03.01.2011 13:19, prague wrote:
            >
            >
            > hi,
            >
            > you are using the autopano plugin inside ptgui to create control points?
            >
            > not sure why you'd want to do that. it's about 4 years old - quite
            > slow and out of date by now. the ptgui control point generator is much
            > (10x ?) faster and otherwise better.
            >
            > you can also try the autopano pro software, which sometimes does a
            > better job guessing the unknown positions of images.
            >
            > if your images "Not all of them have many details" as you say, then
            > you might need to make manual control points yourself - in that case
            > ptgui is easier to use IMO.
            >
            > Jeffrey
            >
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Manfred Kr�ger
            > <Manfred_Kroeger@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi!
            > >
            > > I'm trying to find the best settings for autopano but it's not that
            > > easy. I recently took a lot of pictures with different exposures to
            > > create HDR images. Not all of them have many details and PTGui and
            > > autopano quite often fail to find control points but since I don't
            > use a
            > > tripod I found out that I get the best results if all overlapping
            > images
            > > are linked by control points.
            > >
            > > Unfortunately PTGui does not support the user in creating that many
            > > control points. It can show me which pictures are overlapping and are
            > > not linked by control points. Ok, that's a first step but then I
            > have to
            > > click on the link to the two images and afterwards I have to click on
            > > "Generate control points for images 1 and 2". That's not what I call
            > the
            > > optimum workflow... PTGui knows which images are linked so it could run
            > > autopano on all those image pairs. But that would mean that autopano
            > > would have to find control points for the images multiple times (1 and
            > > 2, 1 and 3, 2 and 3, 2 and 4, ...) which also is not the best way since
            > > it would take a long time.
            > >
            > > I would like to run autopano only once.
            > >
            > > I found out that autopano has can search for control points for all
            > > image pairs but I have not found out how to get this to work. There are
            > > too many other settings that have to be set.
            > >
            > > Currently I use these settings:
            > >
            > > /keys:4 /size:2500 /ransac_dist:40 /ransac_iter:2500000 /search:1
            > > /validation:3
            > >
            > > I don't know where I found them but they work quite good for my
            > pictures
            > > (Nikon D90).
            > >
            > >
            > > I know I have to change the search algorithm to 3. Has somebody tried
            > > this algorithm and found values for all the other settings that
            > really work?
            > >
            > >
            > > Best regards,
            > > Manfred
            > >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Manfred Kröger
            Hi Rick, nice idea if your indoors but I d like to see you climbing around huge gorges, sticking the post-it-notes to the overhanging rocky walls. :-) I don t
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 3, 2011
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              Hi Rick,

              nice idea if your indoors but I'd like to see you climbing around huge
              gorges, sticking the post-it-notes to the overhanging rocky walls. :-)

              I don't shoot 360° images with a fisheye lens but (sometimes quite
              large) mosaics with all kinds of lenses and there it's not that easy
              anymore. :-(


              Manfred


              On 04.01.2011 01:50, Rick Drew wrote:
              >
              > That's why I keep a pack of mini-post-it-notes in my camera bag, as
              > well as
              > various colored thumb-tacks, colored magnets and washes. This way I
              > can add
              > control points at the shoot.
              >
              > Rick Drew
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • prague
              hi manfred, that sounds totally insane. i would try autopano giga which can guess the positions of unknown images really well. otherwise, it seems like you
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 4, 2011
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                hi manfred,

                that sounds totally insane.

                i would try autopano giga which can guess the positions of unknown images really well.

                otherwise, it seems like you have some kind of problem in your workflow. i have never shot a pano with so many orphan images. never! and i have shot tons of panos containing tens or hundreds of shots. you might consider using a robot which is papywizard compatible and lets you send your images to the stitcher with the position already known.


                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Manfred Kr�ger <Manfred_Kroeger@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Jeffrey,
                >
                > yes, I still use this outdated software because the results are better.
                > At least for the images I tend to shoot (outdoors, large mosaics, quite
                > long and focal length when compared with all the fish eye lenses lots of
                > people here use).
                >
                > Actually I do use PTGui. It's definitely good to align the images for a
                > first time. It's really fast! Then I get the links to the overlapping
                > image pairs. At that point, if there are overlapping images without CPs,
                > it's the best idea to let autopano find CPs, with a "size" parameter
                > value set to 1500 or 2500. That may help a bit but far too often that is
                > where my (tedious mouse clicking) nightmare begins. :-(
                >
                > I have to click on the link to "1 and 2" and "2 and 3"... and try
                > PTGui... CTRL-SHIFT-G ... For some of the overlapping image pairs it can
                > find control points but if it does not find any I have to run autopano
                > on those two current images: click on "control points" menu ... click on
                > "autopano image 1 and 2" menu entry ... and ... wait ... because ...
                > with ... a ... size ... parameter ... value ... of ... 2500 ... or ...
                > 5000 ... this ... will ... take ... a ... while. :-(
                >
                > I also use a macro recorder which can simulate the clicking and mouse
                > movements while I sleep.
                >
                > But that can't be it! This can't be the state-of-the-art workflow nowadays.
                >
                > I know I have to set the control points by myself, but I don't want to
                > do this for that many overlapping images. Actually, why should I do
                > this? The software *can* find (most of) the control points when *it is
                > used in a special way*. So, the software *should* be able to help me.
                >
                > PTGui does not support this workflow at all (no configurable CP
                > generator, no automatic function to do this for all unlinked image pairs
                > although all the information it needs are available to it) and I can't
                > find the right settings for autopano which, by looking at the
                > documentation, should do exactly what I want to do: Build a list of
                > "interesting" points for all images and try to see for *all* image pairs
                > if they are linked.
                >
                >
                > Manfred
                >
                > On 03.01.2011 13:19, prague wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > hi,
                > >
                > > you are using the autopano plugin inside ptgui to create control points?
                > >
                > > not sure why you'd want to do that. it's about 4 years old - quite
                > > slow and out of date by now. the ptgui control point generator is much
                > > (10x ?) faster and otherwise better.
                > >
                > > you can also try the autopano pro software, which sometimes does a
                > > better job guessing the unknown positions of images.
                > >
                > > if your images "Not all of them have many details" as you say, then
                > > you might need to make manual control points yourself - in that case
                > > ptgui is easier to use IMO.
                > >
                > > Jeffrey
                > >
                > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Manfred Kr�ger
                > > <Manfred_Kroeger@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi!
                > > >
                > > > I'm trying to find the best settings for autopano but it's not that
                > > > easy. I recently took a lot of pictures with different exposures to
                > > > create HDR images. Not all of them have many details and PTGui and
                > > > autopano quite often fail to find control points but since I don't
                > > use a
                > > > tripod I found out that I get the best results if all overlapping
                > > images
                > > > are linked by control points.
                > > >
                > > > Unfortunately PTGui does not support the user in creating that many
                > > > control points. It can show me which pictures are overlapping and are
                > > > not linked by control points. Ok, that's a first step but then I
                > > have to
                > > > click on the link to the two images and afterwards I have to click on
                > > > "Generate control points for images 1 and 2". That's not what I call
                > > the
                > > > optimum workflow... PTGui knows which images are linked so it could run
                > > > autopano on all those image pairs. But that would mean that autopano
                > > > would have to find control points for the images multiple times (1 and
                > > > 2, 1 and 3, 2 and 3, 2 and 4, ...) which also is not the best way since
                > > > it would take a long time.
                > > >
                > > > I would like to run autopano only once.
                > > >
                > > > I found out that autopano has can search for control points for all
                > > > image pairs but I have not found out how to get this to work. There are
                > > > too many other settings that have to be set.
                > > >
                > > > Currently I use these settings:
                > > >
                > > > /keys:4 /size:2500 /ransac_dist:40 /ransac_iter:2500000 /search:1
                > > > /validation:3
                > > >
                > > > I don't know where I found them but they work quite good for my
                > > pictures
                > > > (Nikon D90).
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > I know I have to change the search algorithm to 3. Has somebody tried
                > > > this algorithm and found values for all the other settings that
                > > really work?
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Best regards,
                > > > Manfred
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Manfred Kröger
                Hi! I know it sounds insane. That s why I m kind of frustrated and the reason why I asked for help. Fortunately this kind of workflow does not apply to all the
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 4, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi!

                  I know it sounds insane. That's why I'm kind of frustrated and the
                  reason why I asked for help. Fortunately this kind of workflow does not
                  apply to all the pictures I take. :-)

                  I shoot panoramas in addition to normal photos and I don't carry a
                  tripod around with me all the time, at least not during daylight hours.
                  The still growing collection of lenses (from 10mm to 500mm) already
                  weighs enough. :-) And, no, I won't buy a robot. It may improve my
                  workflow and it would be a great new toy to play with but It would add
                  even more weight to my backpack and/or luggage and that's one thing I
                  definitely can't afford when going on vacation. Also, can you guess a
                  panorama robot's WAF (wife acceptance factor)? :-)

                  Actually I like PTGui more than Autopano Giga. I tried it once but it's
                  not my kind of GUI. It may work to get preview pictures in an automated
                  way though. Or can it output a PTGui project file? I think I will take
                  another look at it....


                  Manfred

                  On 04.01.2011 16:15, prague wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > hi manfred,
                  >
                  > that sounds totally insane.
                  >
                  > i would try autopano giga which can guess the positions of unknown
                  > images really well.
                  >
                  > otherwise, it seems like you have some kind of problem in your
                  > workflow. i have never shot a pano with so many orphan images. never!
                  > and i have shot tons of panos containing tens or hundreds of shots.
                  > you might consider using a robot which is papywizard compatible and
                  > lets you send your images to the stitcher with the position already known.
                  >
                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Manfred Kr�ger
                  > <Manfred_Kroeger@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Jeffrey,
                  > >
                  > > yes, I still use this outdated software because the results are better.
                  > > At least for the images I tend to shoot (outdoors, large mosaics, quite
                  > > long and focal length when compared with all the fish eye lenses
                  > lots of
                  > > people here use).
                  > >
                  > > Actually I do use PTGui. It's definitely good to align the images for a
                  > > first time. It's really fast! Then I get the links to the overlapping
                  > > image pairs. At that point, if there are overlapping images without
                  > CPs,
                  > > it's the best idea to let autopano find CPs, with a "size" parameter
                  > > value set to 1500 or 2500. That may help a bit but far too often
                  > that is
                  > > where my (tedious mouse clicking) nightmare begins. :-(
                  > >
                  > > I have to click on the link to "1 and 2" and "2 and 3"... and try
                  > > PTGui... CTRL-SHIFT-G ... For some of the overlapping image pairs it
                  > can
                  > > find control points but if it does not find any I have to run autopano
                  > > on those two current images: click on "control points" menu ...
                  > click on
                  > > "autopano image 1 and 2" menu entry ... and ... wait ... because ...
                  > > with ... a ... size ... parameter ... value ... of ... 2500 ... or ...
                  > > 5000 ... this ... will ... take ... a ... while. :-(
                  > >
                  > > I also use a macro recorder which can simulate the clicking and mouse
                  > > movements while I sleep.
                  > >
                  > > But that can't be it! This can't be the state-of-the-art workflow
                  > nowadays.
                  > >
                  > > I know I have to set the control points by myself, but I don't want to
                  > > do this for that many overlapping images. Actually, why should I do
                  > > this? The software *can* find (most of) the control points when *it is
                  > > used in a special way*. So, the software *should* be able to help me.
                  > >
                  > > PTGui does not support this workflow at all (no configurable CP
                  > > generator, no automatic function to do this for all unlinked image
                  > pairs
                  > > although all the information it needs are available to it) and I can't
                  > > find the right settings for autopano which, by looking at the
                  > > documentation, should do exactly what I want to do: Build a list of
                  > > "interesting" points for all images and try to see for *all* image
                  > pairs
                  > > if they are linked.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Manfred
                  > >
                  > > On 03.01.2011 13:19, prague wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > hi,
                  > > >
                  > > > you are using the autopano plugin inside ptgui to create control
                  > points?
                  > > >
                  > > > not sure why you'd want to do that. it's about 4 years old - quite
                  > > > slow and out of date by now. the ptgui control point generator is
                  > much
                  > > > (10x ?) faster and otherwise better.
                  > > >
                  > > > you can also try the autopano pro software, which sometimes does a
                  > > > better job guessing the unknown positions of images.
                  > > >
                  > > > if your images "Not all of them have many details" as you say, then
                  > > > you might need to make manual control points yourself - in that case
                  > > > ptgui is easier to use IMO.
                  > > >
                  > > > Jeffrey
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Manfred Kr�ger
                  > > > <Manfred_Kroeger@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'm trying to find the best settings for autopano but it's not that
                  > > > > easy. I recently took a lot of pictures with different exposures to
                  > > > > create HDR images. Not all of them have many details and PTGui and
                  > > > > autopano quite often fail to find control points but since I don't
                  > > > use a
                  > > > > tripod I found out that I get the best results if all overlapping
                  > > > images
                  > > > > are linked by control points.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Unfortunately PTGui does not support the user in creating that many
                  > > > > control points. It can show me which pictures are overlapping
                  > and are
                  > > > > not linked by control points. Ok, that's a first step but then I
                  > > > have to
                  > > > > click on the link to the two images and afterwards I have to
                  > click on
                  > > > > "Generate control points for images 1 and 2". That's not what I
                  > call
                  > > > the
                  > > > > optimum workflow... PTGui knows which images are linked so it
                  > could run
                  > > > > autopano on all those image pairs. But that would mean that autopano
                  > > > > would have to find control points for the images multiple times
                  > (1 and
                  > > > > 2, 1 and 3, 2 and 3, 2 and 4, ...) which also is not the best
                  > way since
                  > > > > it would take a long time.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I would like to run autopano only once.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I found out that autopano has can search for control points for all
                  > > > > image pairs but I have not found out how to get this to work.
                  > There are
                  > > > > too many other settings that have to be set.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Currently I use these settings:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > /keys:4 /size:2500 /ransac_dist:40 /ransac_iter:2500000 /search:1
                  > > > > /validation:3
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I don't know where I found them but they work quite good for my
                  > > > pictures
                  > > > > (Nikon D90).
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I know I have to change the search algorithm to 3. Has somebody
                  > tried
                  > > > > this algorithm and found values for all the other settings that
                  > > > really work?
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Best regards,
                  > > > > Manfred
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • prague
                  HI Manfred, I also prefer ptgui because i used it for many years. however on the london gigapixel there were a few bits that i couldnt stitch properly, and a
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 6, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    HI Manfred,

                    I also prefer ptgui because i used it for many years. however on the london gigapixel there were a few bits that i couldnt' stitch properly, and a couple features in autopano giga allowed me to fix it. specifically, being able to view the "stitching quality" of specific images, and then local CP generation / optimization of specific clusters of images. And, picking the orphan images and saying "put these in between the other images" which worked.

                    Bernhard Vogl was the first maniac to describe a workflow using both autopano pro/giga and Ptgui (he told me about it in lucerne in 2007) and it can work ok. Since Autopano Pro/giga has "panotools export" you can do first optimizations in APG and then export to PTGui.





                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Manfred Kröger <Manfred_Kroeger@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi!
                    >
                    > I know it sounds insane. That's why I'm kind of frustrated and the
                    > reason why I asked for help. Fortunately this kind of workflow does not
                    > apply to all the pictures I take. :-)
                    >
                    > I shoot panoramas in addition to normal photos and I don't carry a
                    > tripod around with me all the time, at least not during daylight hours.
                    > The still growing collection of lenses (from 10mm to 500mm) already
                    > weighs enough. :-) And, no, I won't buy a robot. It may improve my
                    > workflow and it would be a great new toy to play with but It would add
                    > even more weight to my backpack and/or luggage and that's one thing I
                    > definitely can't afford when going on vacation. Also, can you guess a
                    > panorama robot's WAF (wife acceptance factor)? :-)
                    >
                    > Actually I like PTGui more than Autopano Giga. I tried it once but it's
                    > not my kind of GUI. It may work to get preview pictures in an automated
                    > way though. Or can it output a PTGui project file? I think I will take
                    > another look at it....
                    >
                    >
                    > Manfred
                    >
                    > On 04.01.2011 16:15, prague wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > hi manfred,
                    > >
                    > > that sounds totally insane.
                    > >
                    > > i would try autopano giga which can guess the positions of unknown
                    > > images really well.
                    > >
                    > > otherwise, it seems like you have some kind of problem in your
                    > > workflow. i have never shot a pano with so many orphan images. never!
                    > > and i have shot tons of panos containing tens or hundreds of shots.
                    > > you might consider using a robot which is papywizard compatible and
                    > > lets you send your images to the stitcher with the position already known.
                    > >
                    > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Manfred Kr�ger
                    > > <Manfred_Kroeger@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Jeffrey,
                    > > >
                    > > > yes, I still use this outdated software because the results are better.
                    > > > At least for the images I tend to shoot (outdoors, large mosaics, quite
                    > > > long and focal length when compared with all the fish eye lenses
                    > > lots of
                    > > > people here use).
                    > > >
                    > > > Actually I do use PTGui. It's definitely good to align the images for a
                    > > > first time. It's really fast! Then I get the links to the overlapping
                    > > > image pairs. At that point, if there are overlapping images without
                    > > CPs,
                    > > > it's the best idea to let autopano find CPs, with a "size" parameter
                    > > > value set to 1500 or 2500. That may help a bit but far too often
                    > > that is
                    > > > where my (tedious mouse clicking) nightmare begins. :-(
                    > > >
                    > > > I have to click on the link to "1 and 2" and "2 and 3"... and try
                    > > > PTGui... CTRL-SHIFT-G ... For some of the overlapping image pairs it
                    > > can
                    > > > find control points but if it does not find any I have to run autopano
                    > > > on those two current images: click on "control points" menu ...
                    > > click on
                    > > > "autopano image 1 and 2" menu entry ... and ... wait ... because ...
                    > > > with ... a ... size ... parameter ... value ... of ... 2500 ... or ...
                    > > > 5000 ... this ... will ... take ... a ... while. :-(
                    > > >
                    > > > I also use a macro recorder which can simulate the clicking and mouse
                    > > > movements while I sleep.
                    > > >
                    > > > But that can't be it! This can't be the state-of-the-art workflow
                    > > nowadays.
                    > > >
                    > > > I know I have to set the control points by myself, but I don't want to
                    > > > do this for that many overlapping images. Actually, why should I do
                    > > > this? The software *can* find (most of) the control points when *it is
                    > > > used in a special way*. So, the software *should* be able to help me.
                    > > >
                    > > > PTGui does not support this workflow at all (no configurable CP
                    > > > generator, no automatic function to do this for all unlinked image
                    > > pairs
                    > > > although all the information it needs are available to it) and I can't
                    > > > find the right settings for autopano which, by looking at the
                    > > > documentation, should do exactly what I want to do: Build a list of
                    > > > "interesting" points for all images and try to see for *all* image
                    > > pairs
                    > > > if they are linked.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Manfred
                    > > >
                    > > > On 03.01.2011 13:19, prague wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > hi,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > you are using the autopano plugin inside ptgui to create control
                    > > points?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > not sure why you'd want to do that. it's about 4 years old - quite
                    > > > > slow and out of date by now. the ptgui control point generator is
                    > > much
                    > > > > (10x ?) faster and otherwise better.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > you can also try the autopano pro software, which sometimes does a
                    > > > > better job guessing the unknown positions of images.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > if your images "Not all of them have many details" as you say, then
                    > > > > you might need to make manual control points yourself - in that case
                    > > > > ptgui is easier to use IMO.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Jeffrey
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Manfred Kr�ger
                    > > > > <Manfred_Kroeger@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hi!
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I'm trying to find the best settings for autopano but it's not that
                    > > > > > easy. I recently took a lot of pictures with different exposures to
                    > > > > > create HDR images. Not all of them have many details and PTGui and
                    > > > > > autopano quite often fail to find control points but since I don't
                    > > > > use a
                    > > > > > tripod I found out that I get the best results if all overlapping
                    > > > > images
                    > > > > > are linked by control points.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Unfortunately PTGui does not support the user in creating that many
                    > > > > > control points. It can show me which pictures are overlapping
                    > > and are
                    > > > > > not linked by control points. Ok, that's a first step but then I
                    > > > > have to
                    > > > > > click on the link to the two images and afterwards I have to
                    > > click on
                    > > > > > "Generate control points for images 1 and 2". That's not what I
                    > > call
                    > > > > the
                    > > > > > optimum workflow... PTGui knows which images are linked so it
                    > > could run
                    > > > > > autopano on all those image pairs. But that would mean that autopano
                    > > > > > would have to find control points for the images multiple times
                    > > (1 and
                    > > > > > 2, 1 and 3, 2 and 3, 2 and 4, ...) which also is not the best
                    > > way since
                    > > > > > it would take a long time.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I would like to run autopano only once.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I found out that autopano has can search for control points for all
                    > > > > > image pairs but I have not found out how to get this to work.
                    > > There are
                    > > > > > too many other settings that have to be set.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Currently I use these settings:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > /keys:4 /size:2500 /ransac_dist:40 /ransac_iter:2500000 /search:1
                    > > > > > /validation:3
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I don't know where I found them but they work quite good for my
                    > > > > pictures
                    > > > > > (Nikon D90).
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I know I have to change the search algorithm to 3. Has somebody
                    > > tried
                    > > > > > this algorithm and found values for all the other settings that
                    > > > > really work?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Best regards,
                    > > > > > Manfred
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
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