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Re: Hyperstereo pole panorama -- anaglyph

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  • enridp
    I understand now why Peter used two cameras ^_^ Thanks Wim!!!
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 29, 2010
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      I understand now why Peter used two cameras ^_^
      Thanks Wim!!!


      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wim Koornneef <wim.koornneef@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hello Enrique,
      >
      > Peter is right, a single cam solution can only be used for a static or
      > frozen scene.
      >
      > The main difference in using a single cam or a dual cam solution is not
      > about the shooting time, or the number of images, or the rotation speed, or
      > the fact that 2 cameras are used, no it is about the time shift between the
      > stitched and aligned left/right images.
      >
      > Depending on the shooting params (rotation speed, hFOV, out of NPP forward
      > lens shift) it can happen that the time shift can be many seconds between
      > the left and the right image.
      > For static objects a few seconds time shift is never an issue but as soon as
      > there are moving objects in the scene you get super ghosting when the left
      > and right images are used for 3D.
      > Each of the individual left and right images can be looking great but when
      > you use them together you get "super ghosting".
      >
      > For this reason you always have to use a dual cam solution in a dynamic
      > scene and even then it can be very hard to get rid of "normal ghosting"
      > between the images of the same camera , to tackle this problem Peter is
      > using Smartblend with relatively small vertical strips. Strips are used and
      > not the full equirectangulars to make sure that Smartblend will only work on
      > 2 neighbouring images and not on a large series of images to prevent time
      > shift errors and even then it can be needed to repair errors.
      >
      > I am sure Peter had a bit of luck with this pano because a rotation speed of
      > 18 seconds relatively slow, generally "faster" is always "better".
      >
      > Wim
      > --
      > View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3163050.html
      > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
      >
    • panovrx
      ... Here is another one with much the same workflow but slightly closer camera separation (about 20cm) -- of a large inflatable walk-in structure
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 5, 2011
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        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "onezebra1" <onezebra1@...> wrote:
        >
        > This information is very much appreciated as I'm going to give this 3D shooting a try.
        > My second Canon 5D-2 should be arriving tomorrow and I already have 2 Nikon 10.5mm lens, but I'm thinking of trying it with 2 Canon 15mm mounted diagonally.
        >
        > Roger Berry
        >

        Here is another one with much the same workflow but slightly closer camera separation (about 20cm) -- of a large inflatable walk-in structure
        http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozo.htm

        This was more complicated to fix than the first one as there are so many people walking about. Smartblend blends ok most of the distant people groups but when the groups are closer, and hence in different lateral locations in the frame, it is less identical in its effects on each view. (We need a Smarterblend :-) which knows about lateral stereo disparities.) So I had to fix about 7 or 8 groups of people by pasting from individual view equis.

        There is less vertical coverage with this one as I was experimenting with custom lens hoods to see I could get better contrast that way on a dull day.

        PeterM
      • panovrx
        I made another version of this that will also work on an Ipad (with KRPano) http://www.mediavr.com/ipad3/mirazozo1f.htm Ipads are neat anaglyph pano viewing
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 6, 2011
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          I made another version of this that will also work on an Ipad (with KRPano)
          http://www.mediavr.com/ipad3/mirazozo1f.htm
          Ipads are neat anaglyph pano viewing devices. They have good color so the anaglyph extinction is good. The large black bezel helps the immersion and you can hold it close so your angle of view is more orthographic (same fov) as the cameras' (if you have a standard 75 degree or so default view set in the pano). And pinch zooming seems very natural with 3d content.

          With Krpano, as with Pano2VR etc it is very necessary to follow Wim's anaglyph recipe to get good jpgs without color compression artefacts and replace Krpano's autogenerated Ipad jpgs with your own Irfanview saved ones
          cf.
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/40899

          PeterM



          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "onezebra1" <onezebra1@> wrote:
          > >
          > > This information is very much appreciated as I'm going to give this 3D shooting a try.
          > > My second Canon 5D-2 should be arriving tomorrow and I already have 2 Nikon 10.5mm lens, but I'm thinking of trying it with 2 Canon 15mm mounted diagonally.
          > >
          > > Roger Berry
          > >
          >
          > Here is another one with much the same workflow but slightly closer camera separation (about 20cm) -- of a large inflatable walk-in structure
          > http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozo.htm
          >
          > This was more complicated to fix than the first one as there are so many people walking about. Smartblend blends ok most of the distant people groups but when the groups are closer, and hence in different lateral locations in the frame, it is less identical in its effects on each view. (We need a Smarterblend :-) which knows about lateral stereo disparities.) So I had to fix about 7 or 8 groups of people by pasting from individual view equis.
          >
          > There is less vertical coverage with this one as I was experimenting with custom lens hoods to see I could get better contrast that way on a dull day.
          >
          > PeterM
          >
        • jrgen_schrader
          A nice scenery as well, but I see a huge amount of what Wim calls pesty ghosts . Which is where the shapes of the red and/or green structures are visible
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 6, 2011
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            A nice scenery as well, but I see a huge amount of what Wim calls "pesty ghosts". Which is where the shapes of the red and/or green structures are visible around the objects.

            Thanks for sharing
            Jürgen





            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "onezebra1" <onezebra1@> wrote:
            > >
            > > This information is very much appreciated as I'm going to give this 3D shooting a try.
            > > My second Canon 5D-2 should be arriving tomorrow and I already have 2 Nikon 10.5mm lens, but I'm thinking of trying it with 2 Canon 15mm mounted diagonally.
            > >
            > > Roger Berry
            > >
            >
            > Here is another one with much the same workflow but slightly closer camera separation (about 20cm) -- of a large inflatable walk-in structure
            > http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozo.htm
            >
            > This was more complicated to fix than the first one as there are so many people walking about. Smartblend blends ok most of the distant people groups but when the groups are closer, and hence in different lateral locations in the frame, it is less identical in its effects on each view. (We need a Smarterblend :-) which knows about lateral stereo disparities.) So I had to fix about 7 or 8 groups of people by pasting from individual view equis.
            >
            > There is less vertical coverage with this one as I was experimenting with custom lens hoods to see I could get better contrast that way on a dull day.
            >
            > PeterM
            >
          • Wim Koornneef
            ... Hello Jürgen, I agree, a very nice scene. It must be great to live in such a vibrant city as Sydney, I was there in december 1999 and I have walked on the
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 7, 2011
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              jrgen_schrader wrote:
              > ....A nice scenery as well, but I see a huge amount of what Wim calls
              > "pesty ghosts". Which is where the shapes of the red and/or green
              > structures are visible around the objects.....

              Hello Jürgen, I agree, a very nice scene.
              It must be great to live in such a vibrant city as Sydney, I was there in
              december 1999 and I have walked on the same spot as this pano is shot. This
              pano is helping me to remember how great the view is from here.

              IMO this panorama also shows why it can be very hard to make a good 3D pano.

              When you take a look at the man standing close to the blue borders and to
              some tourist close by then it is obvious that the lens seperation of 20 cm
              is to much. When looking at those close by objects I get severe eye stress
              but when looking over the water to the high buildings far away then the
              scene almost look flat and 2D in the background so instead of 20 cm 40 cm or
              more would be better.
              So for certain parts in this pano 20 cm is to much and for other parts it is
              not enough.
              Go figure....

              About the ghosts, I can see them too esspacially around the largest
              inflatable objects and inside the Opera house.

              Peter knows how to tackle red/cyan ghosting and I have no doubts that he did
              his best, perhaps his monitor is not well calibrated (or your and mine
              monitor needs service ;-)

              In practice it is impossible to make a 3D anaglyph that is ghost free on all
              monitors.
              Ghosting is most times less visible when using the ColorCode 3D system but
              the amber/blue viewers for it are not as common as the red/cyan ones.

              I have good hopes that in 5 yr or so this problem will be gone when a lot of
              people (including us) will have real 3D monitors.
              All panos we shoot now and are suffering from ghost problems when viewed as
              anaglyph will then be looking great when we use the left and right eye panos
              we are now using for making the anaglyphs.

              The future is bright and for sure in 3D :-))

              Wim


              --
              View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3190613.html
              Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
            • panovrx
              this is a very extensive 2d/3d tour -- from the krpano forum http://www.jphd360.net/visites/LeFortdeBron/LeFortdeBron.html .. the depth is quite subdued in
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 7, 2011
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                this is a very extensive 2d/3d tour -- from the krpano forum
                http://www.jphd360.net/visites/LeFortdeBron/LeFortdeBron.html
                .. the depth is quite subdued in anaglyph but I am sure it looks great on a 3d display

                PeterM



                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wim Koornneef <wim.koornneef@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > jrgen_schrader wrote:
                > > ....A nice scenery as well, but I see a huge amount of what Wim calls
                > > "pesty ghosts". Which is where the shapes of the red and/or green
                > > structures are visible around the objects.....
                >
                > Hello Jürgen, I agree, a very nice scene.
                > It must be great to live in such a vibrant city as Sydney, I was there in
                > december 1999 and I have walked on the same spot as this pano is shot. This
                > pano is helping me to remember how great the view is from here.
                >
                > IMO this panorama also shows why it can be very hard to make a good 3D pano.
                >
                > When you take a look at the man standing close to the blue borders and to
                > some tourist close by then it is obvious that the lens seperation of 20 cm
                > is to much. When looking at those close by objects I get severe eye stress
                > but when looking over the water to the high buildings far away then the
                > scene almost look flat and 2D in the background so instead of 20 cm 40 cm or
                > more would be better.
                > So for certain parts in this pano 20 cm is to much and for other parts it is
                > not enough.
                > Go figure....
                >
                > About the ghosts, I can see them too esspacially around the largest
                > inflatable objects and inside the Opera house.
                >
                > Peter knows how to tackle red/cyan ghosting and I have no doubts that he did
                > his best, perhaps his monitor is not well calibrated (or your and mine
                > monitor needs service ;-)
                >
                > In practice it is impossible to make a 3D anaglyph that is ghost free on all
                > monitors.
                > Ghosting is most times less visible when using the ColorCode 3D system but
                > the amber/blue viewers for it are not as common as the red/cyan ones.
                >
                > I have good hopes that in 5 yr or so this problem will be gone when a lot of
                > people (including us) will have real 3D monitors.
                > All panos we shoot now and are suffering from ghost problems when viewed as
                > anaglyph will then be looking great when we use the left and right eye panos
                > we are now using for making the anaglyphs.
                >
                > The future is bright and for sure in 3D :-))
                >
                > Wim
                >
                >
                > --
                > View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3190613.html
                > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                >
              • panovrx
                Here is what it looks like inside that inflatable structure (2) http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozointerior1.htm (the sort of subject where auto point finding
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 7, 2011
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                  Here is what it looks like inside that inflatable structure (2)
                  http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozointerior1.htm
                  (the sort of subject where auto point finding fails utterly).
                  These spaces will make very good stereo panos I think and I will try to do some soon -- using a twin camera motorized indexing construction for capture.

                  Re the exterior 3d pano -- it was extremely dull and dark and at a higher iso which is source of the main ghosting issue apart from the depth range. Bringing up the shadows destroyed the highlight detail. I have been thinking for these kind of extensive views of public spaces where the architecture is important the higher the better mostly. I will try to shoot it with a higher pole in better light. Still I kinda like it as is for the way the people are spread out all over in different directions in little groups in 3d. The people act as a scale reference so you can see the depth where they are standing more clearly and quickly. Sometimes a 3d picture is so full of cues, including parallax, that the layout is apparent instantly. Sometimes it is a more extended process.

                  PeterM



                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > this is a very extensive 2d/3d tour -- from the krpano forum
                  > http://www.jphd360.net/visites/LeFortdeBron/LeFortdeBron.html
                  > .. the depth is quite subdued in anaglyph but I am sure it looks great on a 3d display
                  >
                  > PeterM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wim Koornneef <wim.koornneef@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > jrgen_schrader wrote:
                  > > > ....A nice scenery as well, but I see a huge amount of what Wim calls
                  > > > "pesty ghosts". Which is where the shapes of the red and/or green
                  > > > structures are visible around the objects.....
                  > >
                  > > Hello Jürgen, I agree, a very nice scene.
                  > > It must be great to live in such a vibrant city as Sydney, I was there in
                  > > december 1999 and I have walked on the same spot as this pano is shot. This
                  > > pano is helping me to remember how great the view is from here.
                  > >
                  > > IMO this panorama also shows why it can be very hard to make a good 3D pano.
                  > >
                  > > When you take a look at the man standing close to the blue borders and to
                  > > some tourist close by then it is obvious that the lens seperation of 20 cm
                  > > is to much. When looking at those close by objects I get severe eye stress
                  > > but when looking over the water to the high buildings far away then the
                  > > scene almost look flat and 2D in the background so instead of 20 cm 40 cm or
                  > > more would be better.
                  > > So for certain parts in this pano 20 cm is to much and for other parts it is
                  > > not enough.
                  > > Go figure....
                  > >
                  > > About the ghosts, I can see them too esspacially around the largest
                  > > inflatable objects and inside the Opera house.
                  > >
                  > > Peter knows how to tackle red/cyan ghosting and I have no doubts that he did
                  > > his best, perhaps his monitor is not well calibrated (or your and mine
                  > > monitor needs service ;-)
                  > >
                  > > In practice it is impossible to make a 3D anaglyph that is ghost free on all
                  > > monitors.
                  > > Ghosting is most times less visible when using the ColorCode 3D system but
                  > > the amber/blue viewers for it are not as common as the red/cyan ones.
                  > >
                  > > I have good hopes that in 5 yr or so this problem will be gone when a lot of
                  > > people (including us) will have real 3D monitors.
                  > > All panos we shoot now and are suffering from ghost problems when viewed as
                  > > anaglyph will then be looking great when we use the left and right eye panos
                  > > we are now using for making the anaglyphs.
                  > >
                  > > The future is bright and for sure in 3D :-))
                  > >
                  > > Wim
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3190613.html
                  > > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                  > >
                  >
                • Andras Frenyo
                  for further reference, there are many more here: http://sziget360.com/archives/venue/Luminarium -andras ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 8, 2011
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                    for further reference, there are many more here:
                    http://sziget360.com/archives/venue/Luminarium

                    -andras


                    On Jan 8, 2011, at 8:47 AM, PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                    > Here is what it looks like inside that inflatable structure (2)
                    > http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozointerior1.htm



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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