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Re: tablet choices for CP picking

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  • ahoeben41
    I am a big fan of tablets myself, having used them for over 15 years. I hardly ever use a mouse on my desktop machine(s), I do everything with a Wacom tablet
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 29, 2010
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      I am a big fan of tablets myself, having used them for over 15 years. I hardly ever use a mouse on my desktop machine(s), I do everything with a Wacom tablet (ie: including everything you would normally do with a mouse). The only thing I ever do with a mouse is... control point picking.

      When using a pen on a tablet, you hover the pen a (couple of) millimeter(s) above the tablet surface to move the cursor around. Clicking is done by pushing the pen down that millimeter or so down. I find it neigh impossible to stay on the same pixel when pressing down. So using a pen is actually less precise for me. I personally use the mouse that comes with the tablet in "pen mode" (ie: using absolute coordinates) for a very accurate mouse that *never* skips a pixel and always glides smoothly.

      'do
    • mrjimbo
      Interesting, I feel the same way.. The supplied mouse is far more precise then the pen.. jimbo ... From: ahoeben41 To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com Sent:
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 29, 2010
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        Interesting, I feel the same way.. The supplied mouse is far more precise then the pen..

        jimbo
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: ahoeben41
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 3:25 AM
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: tablet choices for CP picking



        I am a big fan of tablets myself, having used them for over 15 years. I hardly ever use a mouse on my desktop machine(s), I do everything with a Wacom tablet (ie: including everything you would normally do with a mouse). The only thing I ever do with a mouse is... control point picking.

        When using a pen on a tablet, you hover the pen a (couple of) millimeter(s) above the tablet surface to move the cursor around. Clicking is done by pushing the pen down that millimeter or so down. I find it neigh impossible to stay on the same pixel when pressing down. So using a pen is actually less precise for me. I personally use the mouse that comes with the tablet in "pen mode" (ie: using absolute coordinates) for a very accurate mouse that *never* skips a pixel and always glides smoothly.

        'do





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • RomualdV
        Same here. Picking CP is easier with mouse than pen tablet. Romuald
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 29, 2010
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          Same here.
          Picking CP is easier with mouse than pen tablet.

          Romuald


          Le 29 déc. 10 à 14:25, ahoeben41 a écrit :

          > I am a big fan of tablets myself, having used them for over 15
          > years. I hardly ever use a mouse on my desktop machine(s), I do
          > everything with a Wacom tablet (ie: including everything you would
          > normally do with a mouse). The only thing I ever do with a mouse
          > is... control point picking.
          >
          > When using a pen on a tablet, you hover the pen a (couple of)
          > millimeter(s) above the tablet surface to move the cursor around.
          > Clicking is done by pushing the pen down that millimeter or so
          > down. I find it neigh impossible to stay on the same pixel when
          > pressing down. So using a pen is actually less precise for me. I
          > personally use the mouse that comes with the tablet in "pen
          > mode" (ie: using absolute coordinates) for a very accurate mouse
          > that *never* skips a pixel and always glides smoothly.
          >
          > 'do
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > --
          >
          >
          >
        • matt_nolan_uaf
          No problem. One application I was thinking of was for color control -- to edit in photoshop using the touchscreen but also see the effects on a large
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
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            No problem. One application I was thinking of was for color control -- to edit in photoshop using the touchscreen but also see the effects on a large calibrated monitor. Do you have it set up so the same image is seen on both screens, or do you have to pass the image back and forth between them like two separate monitors?
            -Matt


            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
            >
            > Matt ,
            > I apologize but I'm missing where your trying to go.. The Cintique is basically a monitor that is a also a touch screen.. as are all the touch screens.. Tablets are basically an enhanced mouse devise that give you much more control in certain software's.....like PS which are set up to use it.. The Cintiq we have is a 21UX ...we have it hooked up using a DVI and USB connections on a MAC... So if you want to set it up as a dual monitor that is no issue..... but it's not visually intended to be like an Eizo or? that's just to get a point across.. It's a fancy tablet.. that works just like a tablet but offers the image rather then the gray scale nothing you view on the tablet.. They do make sense in many applications.. but they are not a replacement for a good monitor..
            > To be honest and getting grounded on the whole thing.. If your focus is control points as indicated previously.. I think I'd stick with a regular tablet..
            > I guess to answer your original question.. The Cintique functions as a tablet and a monitor.....it's simply a tablet with the actual picture.. and no you can't turn off the monitor function as far as know.. but who would want to.. I mean your paying 2k for the thing.. Tablets are less then 500 bucks.
            >
            > jimbo
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: matt_nolan_uaf
            > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 12:17 PM
            > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: tablet choices for CP picking
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanks Jimbo. Can the cintiq screen be turned off or mirrored on a monitor, such that you can use it like a regular tablet? For example, if for some applications you wanted to see your image on a large desktop monitor but edit with the cintiq tablet?
            > Thanks,
            > Matt
            >
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Going back to the tablets for a minute.. Larger tablets are more costly.. but you can set up the usable work area on the larger tablets to be smaller if you want.. in the set up area. It's quick and easy to do that. If the budget is ok with a larger tablet you may want to consider that.. The larger tablets has improved scale that for many things in photoshop or other similar softwares is much more precision and workable. If your only going to use it for control points I don't know that it's any better then a regular mouse in truth..
            > > As far as the Cintiq screens.. We like them...I wouldn't say they work any better then a tablet just differently.. A tablet requires gaining a new type of hand eye coordination and as you can imagine it's quite a bit easier with the Cintiq...... but if your doing a lot of work I find find my arm gets to tired and it doesn't , to me anyway , work near as well as a tablet for many of the Photoshop tools when it's positioned like a monitor.... We have however put the Cintiq on it's back and used it like a tablet many times .....that is mucho sweet..
            > >
            > > jimbo
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: matt_nolan_uaf
            > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 10:59 AM
            > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: tablet choices for CP picking
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Thanks, that's great, practical advice.
            > >
            > > Another question, if the tablet with the built-screen (cintiq) was the same price, would you recommend that one? That is, do you think it would be better or worse for CP picking to use the cintiq? In this case the tablet-screen would be much smaller than a monitor, so maybe this is a detriment?
            > >
            > > For that matter, there are lots of touchscreen monitors out there for much lower cost than the cintiqs-- any thoughts as to whether these might be useful?
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > > Matt
            > >
            > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bloch <Blochi@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I recommend the Medium Sized Intuos4.
            > > > http://www.wacom.com/intuos/medium.php
            > > >
            > > > The smaller the pad, the more your own hand jitter will com into play. On the flipside, big pads require big arm movements, which can become tiring. I found Medium the prefect in-between. The cable is pretty long, and the pen is wireless anyway, so there isn't a real need for the wireless version (unless you have already eliminated each and every wire and that would be the only one on your desk).
            > > > They also come with Photoshop Elements, with a special upgradable coupon to the full CS5. I did that, and the total is pretty close to just buying a CS5 license by itself - so essentially the pad was free.
            > > >
            > > > Blochi
            > > >
            > > > On Dec 27, 2010, at 2:25 PM, matt_nolan_uaf wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > Hi All, happy holidays. I've started stitching some large gigapix panos from this summer and was wondering if anyone could advise me a better solution for control point picking than a mouse (when automated picking fails), such as tablets and pens. I've searched old posts and Wacom tablets come up a lot, but there are a wide variety of them available currentlyn (with a wide variety on price), and it's not clear to me what size and features are most desirable for CP picking and photoshop retouching (maybe those have different needs?). My computer screens are all wide aspect, so it seems that matching tablet aspect is a good idea, but other than that I'm unsure. Anyway, any suggestions or experiences would be appreciated.
            > > > > Thanks,
            > > > > Matt
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • matt_nolan_uaf
            Great to know, thanks! -Matt
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
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              Great to know, thanks!
              -Matt


              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, RomualdV <vromuald@...> wrote:
              >
              > Same here.
              > Picking CP is easier with mouse than pen tablet.
              >
              > Romuald
              >
              >
              > Le 29 déc. 10 à 14:25, ahoeben41 a écrit :
              >
              > > I am a big fan of tablets myself, having used them for over 15
              > > years. I hardly ever use a mouse on my desktop machine(s), I do
              > > everything with a Wacom tablet (ie: including everything you would
              > > normally do with a mouse). The only thing I ever do with a mouse
              > > is... control point picking.
              > >
              > > When using a pen on a tablet, you hover the pen a (couple of)
              > > millimeter(s) above the tablet surface to move the cursor around.
              > > Clicking is done by pushing the pen down that millimeter or so
              > > down. I find it neigh impossible to stay on the same pixel when
              > > pressing down. So using a pen is actually less precise for me. I
              > > personally use the mouse that comes with the tablet in "pen
              > > mode" (ie: using absolute coordinates) for a very accurate mouse
              > > that *never* skips a pixel and always glides smoothly.
              > >
              > > 'do
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > --
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • mrjimbo
              In the case mentioned you would have to mirror them I would think... In a way to me that would be the same as using a tablet.. If I was watching one monitor
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                In the case mentioned you would have to mirror them I would think... In a way to me that would be the same as using a tablet.. If I was watching one monitor for color then poking on another.....well..... Wouldn't it make more sense to have one or two monitors and a regular tablet.. With two monitors you can extend the desk top and the tablet will run both.. Also with the right color management software both monitors can be dialed in and then matched so your not falling off the edge of the earth when you drag something from one to the other. The Cintiq's can be profiled but the result won't be like an Eizo or??

                jimbo
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: matt_nolan_uaf
                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:41 AM
                Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: tablet choices for CP picking



                No problem. One application I was thinking of was for color control -- to edit in photoshop using the touchscreen but also see the effects on a large calibrated monitor. Do you have it set up so the same image is seen on both screens, or do you have to pass the image back and forth between them like two separate monitors?
                -Matt

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
                >
                > Matt ,
                > I apologize but I'm missing where your trying to go.. The Cintique is basically a monitor that is a also a touch screen.. as are all the touch screens.. Tablets are basically an enhanced mouse devise that give you much more control in certain software's.....like PS which are set up to use it.. The Cintiq we have is a 21UX ...we have it hooked up using a DVI and USB connections on a MAC... So if you want to set it up as a dual monitor that is no issue..... but it's not visually intended to be like an Eizo or? that's just to get a point across.. It's a fancy tablet.. that works just like a tablet but offers the image rather then the gray scale nothing you view on the tablet.. They do make sense in many applications.. but they are not a replacement for a good monitor..
                > To be honest and getting grounded on the whole thing.. If your focus is control points as indicated previously.. I think I'd stick with a regular tablet..
                > I guess to answer your original question.. The Cintique functions as a tablet and a monitor.....it's simply a tablet with the actual picture.. and no you can't turn off the monitor function as far as know.. but who would want to.. I mean your paying 2k for the thing.. Tablets are less then 500 bucks.
                >
                > jimbo
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: matt_nolan_uaf
                > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 12:17 PM
                > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: tablet choices for CP picking
                >
                >
                >
                > Thanks Jimbo. Can the cintiq screen be turned off or mirrored on a monitor, such that you can use it like a regular tablet? For example, if for some applications you wanted to see your image on a large desktop monitor but edit with the cintiq tablet?
                > Thanks,
                > Matt
                >
                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Going back to the tablets for a minute.. Larger tablets are more costly.. but you can set up the usable work area on the larger tablets to be smaller if you want.. in the set up area. It's quick and easy to do that. If the budget is ok with a larger tablet you may want to consider that.. The larger tablets has improved scale that for many things in photoshop or other similar softwares is much more precision and workable. If your only going to use it for control points I don't know that it's any better then a regular mouse in truth..
                > > As far as the Cintiq screens.. We like them...I wouldn't say they work any better then a tablet just differently.. A tablet requires gaining a new type of hand eye coordination and as you can imagine it's quite a bit easier with the Cintiq...... but if your doing a lot of work I find find my arm gets to tired and it doesn't , to me anyway , work near as well as a tablet for many of the Photoshop tools when it's positioned like a monitor.... We have however put the Cintiq on it's back and used it like a tablet many times .....that is mucho sweet..
                > >
                > > jimbo
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: matt_nolan_uaf
                > > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 10:59 AM
                > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: tablet choices for CP picking
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Thanks, that's great, practical advice.
                > >
                > > Another question, if the tablet with the built-screen (cintiq) was the same price, would you recommend that one? That is, do you think it would be better or worse for CP picking to use the cintiq? In this case the tablet-screen would be much smaller than a monitor, so maybe this is a detriment?
                > >
                > > For that matter, there are lots of touchscreen monitors out there for much lower cost than the cintiqs-- any thoughts as to whether these might be useful?
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > Matt
                > >
                > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bloch <Blochi@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I recommend the Medium Sized Intuos4.
                > > > http://www.wacom.com/intuos/medium.php
                > > >
                > > > The smaller the pad, the more your own hand jitter will com into play. On the flipside, big pads require big arm movements, which can become tiring. I found Medium the prefect in-between. The cable is pretty long, and the pen is wireless anyway, so there isn't a real need for the wireless version (unless you have already eliminated each and every wire and that would be the only one on your desk).
                > > > They also come with Photoshop Elements, with a special upgradable coupon to the full CS5. I did that, and the total is pretty close to just buying a CS5 license by itself - so essentially the pad was free.
                > > >
                > > > Blochi
                > > >
                > > > On Dec 27, 2010, at 2:25 PM, matt_nolan_uaf wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > Hi All, happy holidays. I've started stitching some large gigapix panos from this summer and was wondering if anyone could advise me a better solution for control point picking than a mouse (when automated picking fails), such as tablets and pens. I've searched old posts and Wacom tablets come up a lot, but there are a wide variety of them available currentlyn (with a wide variety on price), and it's not clear to me what size and features are most desirable for CP picking and photoshop retouching (maybe those have different needs?). My computer screens are all wide aspect, so it seems that matching tablet aspect is a good idea, but other than that I'm unsure. Anyway, any suggestions or experiences would be appreciated.
                > > > > Thanks,
                > > > > Matt
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Carl von Einem
                Posted by: mrjimbo ... Like a tablet, only far better. Several Photoshop tools work so much better when I use the Wacom pen (compared to the mouse, not the
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Posted by: "mrjimbo"
                  >
                  > In the case mentioned you would have to mirror them I would think...
                  > In a way to me that would be the same as using a tablet.. If I was
                  > watching one monitor for color then poking on another.....well.....

                  Like a tablet, only far better. Several Photoshop tools work so much
                  better when I use the Wacom pen (compared to the mouse, not the
                  tissues), so for retouching I often open a second window (in menu Window
                  -> Arrange -> New window for...) on my other LCD which serves either as
                  a lupe or an overview for what I'm doing on the Wacom.

                  > Wouldn't it make more sense to have one or two monitors and a
                  > regular tablet.. With two monitors you can extend the desk top and
                  > the tablet will run both.. Also with the right color management
                  > software both monitors can be dialed in and then matched so your
                  > not falling off the edge of the earth when you drag something from
                  > one to the other. The Cintiq's can be profiled but the result
                  > won't be like an Eizo or??

                  Right. Here is my personal setup: one EIZO CG21 plus the Cintiq 21UX
                  (1st edition) as an extended desktop. This combination is sort of
                  interesting since AFAIK both use the same panel. Calibrating EIZO CG
                  displays is a no brainer and really accurate while trying to calibrate
                  the Cintiq is a bit tedious and gives ok results but won't match the
                  EIZO (using the same i1pro).

                  Manual control point selection using the Cintiq 21UX with the pen is
                  mostly great and in some cases a bit akward: sometimes I manage to hide
                  the little "lupe" right below my hand which is holding the pen, sort of
                  counterproductive. I have to stress that usually it works fine for me. I
                  sort of let my hand decide what it picks: the mouse, the Wacom pen or
                  sometimes even a pack of paper handkerchiefs (only the latter strangely
                  enough doesn't appear on the screen).

                  I first saw the principle at a SYSTEMS fair in Munich in the 1990ies
                  when Wacom presented their first 12" version that still needed a
                  PCI-Card to connect to the computer. I instantly tried a free-form
                  select and I knew I wanted to have one. Prior to ordering the Cintiq
                  years later I had the chance to test the tablet with hugin in a nice
                  little shop (www.docmac.info). It's a lot of money but I didn't regret
                  it yet :-)

                  Carl

                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: matt_nolan_uaf
                  >
                  > No problem. One application I was thinking of was for color
                  > control -- to edit in photoshop using the touchscreen but also
                  > see the effects on a large calibrated monitor. Do you have it
                  > set up so the same image is seen on both screens, or do you
                  > have to pass the image back and forth between them like two
                  > separate monitors?
                • mrjimbo
                  Hey Carl, Tis certainly the hot set up.. jimbo ... From: Carl von Einem To: PanoTools NG List Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: [PanoToolsNG]
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 30, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hey Carl,
                    Tis certainly the hot set up..

                    jimbo
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Carl von Einem
                    To: PanoTools NG List
                    Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:15 AM
                    Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: tablet choices for CP picking



                    Posted by: "mrjimbo"
                    >
                    > In the case mentioned you would have to mirror them I would think...
                    > In a way to me that would be the same as using a tablet.. If I was
                    > watching one monitor for color then poking on another.....well.....

                    Like a tablet, only far better. Several Photoshop tools work so much
                    better when I use the Wacom pen (compared to the mouse, not the
                    tissues), so for retouching I often open a second window (in menu Window
                    -> Arrange -> New window for...) on my other LCD which serves either as
                    a lupe or an overview for what I'm doing on the Wacom.

                    > Wouldn't it make more sense to have one or two monitors and a
                    > regular tablet.. With two monitors you can extend the desk top and
                    > the tablet will run both.. Also with the right color management
                    > software both monitors can be dialed in and then matched so your
                    > not falling off the edge of the earth when you drag something from
                    > one to the other. The Cintiq's can be profiled but the result
                    > won't be like an Eizo or??

                    Right. Here is my personal setup: one EIZO CG21 plus the Cintiq 21UX
                    (1st edition) as an extended desktop. This combination is sort of
                    interesting since AFAIK both use the same panel. Calibrating EIZO CG
                    displays is a no brainer and really accurate while trying to calibrate
                    the Cintiq is a bit tedious and gives ok results but won't match the
                    EIZO (using the same i1pro).

                    Manual control point selection using the Cintiq 21UX with the pen is
                    mostly great and in some cases a bit akward: sometimes I manage to hide
                    the little "lupe" right below my hand which is holding the pen, sort of
                    counterproductive. I have to stress that usually it works fine for me. I
                    sort of let my hand decide what it picks: the mouse, the Wacom pen or
                    sometimes even a pack of paper handkerchiefs (only the latter strangely
                    enough doesn't appear on the screen).

                    I first saw the principle at a SYSTEMS fair in Munich in the 1990ies
                    when Wacom presented their first 12" version that still needed a
                    PCI-Card to connect to the computer. I instantly tried a free-form
                    select and I knew I wanted to have one. Prior to ordering the Cintiq
                    years later I had the chance to test the tablet with hugin in a nice
                    little shop (www.docmac.info). It's a lot of money but I didn't regret
                    it yet :-)

                    Carl

                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: matt_nolan_uaf
                    >
                    > No problem. One application I was thinking of was for color
                    > control -- to edit in photoshop using the touchscreen but also
                    > see the effects on a large calibrated monitor. Do you have it
                    > set up so the same image is seen on both screens, or do you
                    > have to pass the image back and forth between them like two
                    > separate monitors?





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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