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Hyperstereo pole panorama -- anaglyph

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  • panovrx
    http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm from about 4.5m with 50 shots in 18 seconds on a rotating twin 5D/10.5mm rig with camera separation 25cm ...like
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 18, 2010
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      http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm

      from about 4.5m with 50 shots in 18 seconds on a rotating twin 5D/10.5mm rig with camera separation 25cm
      ...like
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwzCMPeS6JE
      except with the cameras further apart and hanging down from a bar and rotating slower

      When you are far enough away from the nearest feature, like high on a pole, quite large disparity pano pairs can be stitched

      PeterM
    • Willy Kaemena
      wow that looks unbelievable deep !!! wonderful Willy ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 29 , Dec 18, 2010
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        wow that looks unbelievable deep !!! wonderful


        Willy


        On Dec 19, 2010, at 0:35, panovrx wrote:

        > http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm
        >
        > from about 4.5m with 50 shots in 18 seconds on a rotating twin 5D/10.5mm rig with camera separation 25cm
        > ...like
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwzCMPeS6JE
        > except with the cameras further apart and hanging down from a bar and rotating slower
        >
        > When you are far enough away from the nearest feature, like high on a pole, quite large disparity pano pairs can be stitched
        >
        > PeterM
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ned Chiariello
        This is the best 3D panorama yet, I m hooked! ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 29 , Dec 18, 2010
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          This is the best 3D panorama yet, I'm hooked!

          On Dec 18, 2010, at 4:35 PM, panovrx wrote:

          > http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm
          >
          > from about 4.5m with 50 shots in 18 seconds on a rotating twin 5D/10.5mm rig with camera separation 25cm
          > ...like
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwzCMPeS6JE
          > except with the cameras further apart and hanging down from a bar and rotating slower
          >
          > When you are far enough away from the nearest feature, like high on a pole, quite large disparity pano pairs can be stitched
          >
          > PeterM
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • jrgen_schrader
          A brilliant piece of frozen reality. I like that woman taking the parking ticket from the vending machine and all the people walking around. Jürgen
          Message 4 of 29 , Dec 18, 2010
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            A brilliant piece of frozen reality.
            I like that woman taking the parking ticket from the vending machine and all the people walking around.

            Jürgen

            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
            >
            > http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm
            >
            > from about 4.5m with 50 shots in 18 seconds on a rotating twin 5D/10.5mm rig with camera separation 25cm
            > ...like
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwzCMPeS6JE
            > except with the cameras further apart and hanging down from a bar and rotating slower
            >
            > When you are far enough away from the nearest feature, like high on a pole, quite large disparity pano pairs can be stitched
            >
            > PeterM
            >
          • Trausti Hraunfjord
            A lot of depth all around. Really good! ..... but the one thing I still miss in those panos, is that the mouse cursor would drop and rise according to the
            Message 5 of 29 , Dec 18, 2010
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              A lot of depth all around. Really good! ..... but the one thing I still
              miss in those panos, is that the mouse cursor would drop and rise according
              to the depth of the image... but I really don´t know how that could be
              achieved.

              Trausti


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Wim Koornneef
              Hello Peter, It can be very difficult to determine the proper camera seperation on forehand and only on the location itself it is possible to judge the proper
              Message 6 of 29 , Dec 19, 2010
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                Hello Peter,

                It can be very difficult to determine the proper camera seperation on
                forehand and only on the location itself it is possible to judge the proper
                setting and even then it is not sure how it will work out.
                In this case the 25 cm you choose is working fine, the depth is maximized
                for the scene, any more then 25 cm would apply to much 3D depth on the
                foreground (poles etc.) and any less then 25 cm would make the background
                (trees, buildings) to flat.
                Apart from all technical details that are involved I think setting the
                proper camera seperation is perhaps one of the most difficult things.

                The panorama itself shows a nice scene and there is no sign of ghosting at
                all.
                Well done !

                Wim
                --
                View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3094313.html
                Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
              • Wim Koornneef
                PS, When looking up in the pano and then rotating it seems that zenith is wobbling a lot, this could be caused by the parallax but it could be also that you
                Message 7 of 29 , Dec 19, 2010
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                  PS,

                  When looking up in the pano and then rotating it seems that zenith is
                  wobbling a lot, this could be caused by the parallax but it could be also
                  that you limited the player.
                  I can also see the vFOV of the pano player is not symmetric, did you use an
                  up tilt for the cameras or did you limit the down view ?

                  Wim

                  --
                  View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3094319.html
                  Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                • Andras Frenyo
                  Super. The height, the spot, the separation - all has worked pretty perfect here. How many images did you use to stitch the panos. Can I assume not all and
                  Message 8 of 29 , Dec 20, 2010
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                    Super.
                    The height, the spot, the separation - all has worked pretty perfect here.

                    How many images did you use to stitch the panos. Can I assume not all and the same for both?

                    Thanks.

                    On Dec 19, 2010, at 8:38 AM, PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                    > http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • panovrx
                    ... It was a rather convoluted workflow but this method seemed to work well with this subject. First I trimmed the L and R sequences, head and tail, to enough
                    Message 9 of 29 , Dec 21, 2010
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                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Andras Frenyo <andras@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Super.
                      > The height, the spot, the separation - all has worked pretty perfect here.
                      >
                      > How many images did you use to stitch the panos. Can I assume not all and the same for both?
                      >
                      > Thanks.
                      >
                      > On Dec 19, 2010, at 8:38 AM, PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                      >
                      > > http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm
                      >
                      >
                      It was a rather convoluted workflow but this method seemed to work well with this subject.
                      First I trimmed the L and R sequences, head and tail, to enough matched pairs to cover 360 and a little bit more.
                      About 56 images for each side. Then I check the sync by looking at action in the pairs. Then I loaded the L shots
                      and masked them in PTGui 9 so that only an area above the horizon and about 60 degrees wide was being used
                      for point finding. Then I calibrated the L shots to see if I could get a good solution. When it looked ok I levelled it.
                      Then I loaded the first of the R hand shots as well. I calibrated its yaw, pitch and roll against the first of the L shots.
                      Then I loaded the rest of the R shots.

                      Now I know what roll, pitch and yaw of the first L shot will be level. What fov and a,b, c of the fisheye lens will give
                      a good stitch, and what roll, pitch and yaw of the first R shot will make it parallized to the first L shot.

                      So now I set all the L shots to the same roll,pitch and yaw as the first L shot and all the R shots to the same as
                      the first R shot. So now all the image pairs are parallelized (like stereo pairs with the same roll and tilt and aligned
                      at the same infinity points),

                      Then I convert all the fisheye images to 20 degree wide, 180 degree high equi strips using these settings.

                      Then I load the equi L strips and optimize them (after masking the foreground for point finding)
                      and stitch the final L panorama with Smartblend blending.
                      I output individual 360 panoramas for each L strip also.

                      Then I make a template of this solution and apply it to the R strips and output the finished R panorama and individual
                      panoramas for each R strip.

                      Smartblend will have blended differently in different action parts of the scene so you now have to fix those
                      (in a couple of places) with pasted bits from the individual strip panoramas you have outputted.

                      Then I load the finished L and R stitched and fixed panoramas into PTGui and level them again each other and finetune
                      the scene levelling.



                      You will think this has too many steps and I could have stitched directly from the fisheyes but I think the solution I got
                      with the second generation images (equi strips from the parallelised calibrated fisheyes) was quite a bit more accurate
                      than what I got directly from stitching the first L fisheye test stitch. But sometimes directly from the fisheyes is better.

                      Peter M
                    • Roger D. Williams
                      ... I found this both fascinating and extremely depressing. The result is great, but that it took so much expertise and detailed work means that I won t be
                      Message 10 of 29 , Dec 21, 2010
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                        On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 19:09:03 +0900, panovrx <panovrx@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Andras Frenyo <andras@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Super.
                        >> The height, the spot, the separation - all has worked pretty perfect
                        >> here.
                        >>
                        >> How many images did you use to stitch the panos. Can I assume not all
                        >> and the same for both?
                        >>
                        >> Thanks.
                        >>
                        >> On Dec 19, 2010, at 8:38 AM, PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                        >>
                        >> > http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm
                        >>
                        >>
                        > It was a rather convoluted workflow but this method seemed to work well
                        > with this subject.

                        I found this both fascinating and extremely depressing. The result is
                        great, but that it took so much expertise and detailed work means that
                        I won't be able to produce anything nearly as good in this lifetime.
                        I can't imagine that Sony will ever automate anything like THIS!

                        Roger W.

                        --
                        Business: www.adex-japan.com
                        Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                      • jrgen_schrader
                        Thank you very much, Peter, for the detailed insight. Much appreciated. After I had made some more tests with Wim s single camera solution I wondered how it
                        Message 11 of 29 , Dec 21, 2010
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                          Thank you very much, Peter, for the detailed insight.
                          Much appreciated.

                          After I had made some more tests with Wim's single camera solution I wondered how it would be possible to get the panoramas from to cameras with an offset leveled and parallelized so that they would make a useable stereo pair. Your description helped a lot.

                          Jürgen



                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Andras Frenyo <andras@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Super.
                          > > The height, the spot, the separation - all has worked pretty perfect here.
                          > >
                          > > How many images did you use to stitch the panos. Can I assume not all and the same for both?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks.
                          > >
                          > > On Dec 19, 2010, at 8:38 AM, PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm
                          > >
                          > >
                          > It was a rather convoluted workflow but this method seemed to work well with this subject.
                          > First I trimmed the L and R sequences, head and tail, to enough matched pairs to cover 360 and a little bit more.
                          > About 56 images for each side. Then I check the sync by looking at action in the pairs. Then I loaded the L shots
                          > and masked them in PTGui 9 so that only an area above the horizon and about 60 degrees wide was being used
                          > for point finding. Then I calibrated the L shots to see if I could get a good solution. When it looked ok I levelled it.
                          > Then I loaded the first of the R hand shots as well. I calibrated its yaw, pitch and roll against the first of the L shots.
                          > Then I loaded the rest of the R shots.
                          >
                          > Now I know what roll, pitch and yaw of the first L shot will be level. What fov and a,b, c of the fisheye lens will give
                          > a good stitch, and what roll, pitch and yaw of the first R shot will make it parallized to the first L shot.
                          >
                          > So now I set all the L shots to the same roll,pitch and yaw as the first L shot and all the R shots to the same as
                          > the first R shot. So now all the image pairs are parallelized (like stereo pairs with the same roll and tilt and aligned
                          > at the same infinity points),
                          >
                          > Then I convert all the fisheye images to 20 degree wide, 180 degree high equi strips using these settings.
                          >
                          > Then I load the equi L strips and optimize them (after masking the foreground for point finding)
                          > and stitch the final L panorama with Smartblend blending.
                          > I output individual 360 panoramas for each L strip also.
                          >
                          > Then I make a template of this solution and apply it to the R strips and output the finished R panorama and individual
                          > panoramas for each R strip.
                          >
                          > Smartblend will have blended differently in different action parts of the scene so you now have to fix those
                          > (in a couple of places) with pasted bits from the individual strip panoramas you have outputted.
                          >
                          > Then I load the finished L and R stitched and fixed panoramas into PTGui and level them again each other and finetune
                          > the scene levelling.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > You will think this has too many steps and I could have stitched directly from the fisheyes but I think the solution I got
                          > with the second generation images (equi strips from the parallelised calibrated fisheyes) was quite a bit more accurate
                          > than what I got directly from stitching the first L fisheye test stitch. But sometimes directly from the fisheyes is better.
                          >
                          > Peter M
                          >
                        • Bernhard Vogl
                          Thanks for the detailed description which was very interesting to read - and the result is really excellent - would like to see it on my Zalman ;-) I can
                          Message 12 of 29 , Dec 21, 2010
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                            Thanks for the detailed description which was very interesting to read - and the result is really excellent - would like to see it on my Zalman ;-)

                            I can understand that the complex workflow is necessary for repeatable results. However, i would be interested to hear if you think that an excellent optimization of L/R indepentently could be a viable solution. This is what i try to do with the high resolution stereos - and i blame the wrong depth flaws my impatience to do a real good optimization. Would like to hear your thoughts about it!

                            Best regards
                            Bernhard

                            -------- Original-Nachricht --------
                            > Datum: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 19:30:54 +0900
                            > Von: "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>
                            > An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            > Betreff: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Hyperstereo pole panorama -- anaglyph

                            > On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 19:09:03 +0900, panovrx <panovrx@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Andras Frenyo <andras@...> wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >> Super.
                            > >> The height, the spot, the separation - all has worked pretty perfect
                            > >> here.
                            > >>
                            > >> How many images did you use to stitch the panos. Can I assume not all
                            > >> and the same for both?
                            > >>
                            > >> Thanks.
                            > >>
                            > >> On Dec 19, 2010, at 8:38 AM, PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >> > http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > > It was a rather convoluted workflow but this method seemed to work well
                            > > with this subject.
                            >
                            > I found this both fascinating and extremely depressing. The result is
                            > great, but that it took so much expertise and detailed work means that
                            > I won't be able to produce anything nearly as good in this lifetime.
                            > I can't imagine that Sony will ever automate anything like THIS!
                            >
                            > Roger W.
                            >
                            > --
                            > Business: www.adex-japan.com
                            > Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                            >
                            >
                          • enridp
                            Congratulations Peter! your 3D pano is awesome. I have a question, why you are using 2 cameras? I mean, what are the advantages of using two cameras instead of
                            Message 13 of 29 , Dec 21, 2010
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                              Congratulations Peter! your 3D pano is awesome.
                              I have a question, why you are using 2 cameras? I mean, what are the advantages of using two cameras instead of one (Wim's method).
                              Because I thought that the advantage was less pictures, but 50 shots is the same number of pictures needed with one camera.

                              Regards!
                              Enrique

                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Thank you very much, Peter, for the detailed insight.
                              > Much appreciated.
                              >
                              > After I had made some more tests with Wim's single camera solution I wondered how it would be possible to get the panoramas from to cameras with an offset leveled and parallelized so that they would make a useable stereo pair. Your description helped a lot.
                              >
                              > Jürgen
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Andras Frenyo <andras@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Super.
                              > > > The height, the spot, the separation - all has worked pretty perfect here.
                              > > >
                              > > > How many images did you use to stitch the panos. Can I assume not all and the same for both?
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks.
                              > > >
                              > > > On Dec 19, 2010, at 8:38 AM, PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > It was a rather convoluted workflow but this method seemed to work well with this subject.
                              > > First I trimmed the L and R sequences, head and tail, to enough matched pairs to cover 360 and a little bit more.
                              > > About 56 images for each side. Then I check the sync by looking at action in the pairs. Then I loaded the L shots
                              > > and masked them in PTGui 9 so that only an area above the horizon and about 60 degrees wide was being used
                              > > for point finding. Then I calibrated the L shots to see if I could get a good solution. When it looked ok I levelled it.
                              > > Then I loaded the first of the R hand shots as well. I calibrated its yaw, pitch and roll against the first of the L shots.
                              > > Then I loaded the rest of the R shots.
                              > >
                              > > Now I know what roll, pitch and yaw of the first L shot will be level. What fov and a,b, c of the fisheye lens will give
                              > > a good stitch, and what roll, pitch and yaw of the first R shot will make it parallized to the first L shot.
                              > >
                              > > So now I set all the L shots to the same roll,pitch and yaw as the first L shot and all the R shots to the same as
                              > > the first R shot. So now all the image pairs are parallelized (like stereo pairs with the same roll and tilt and aligned
                              > > at the same infinity points),
                              > >
                              > > Then I convert all the fisheye images to 20 degree wide, 180 degree high equi strips using these settings.
                              > >
                              > > Then I load the equi L strips and optimize them (after masking the foreground for point finding)
                              > > and stitch the final L panorama with Smartblend blending.
                              > > I output individual 360 panoramas for each L strip also.
                              > >
                              > > Then I make a template of this solution and apply it to the R strips and output the finished R panorama and individual
                              > > panoramas for each R strip.
                              > >
                              > > Smartblend will have blended differently in different action parts of the scene so you now have to fix those
                              > > (in a couple of places) with pasted bits from the individual strip panoramas you have outputted.
                              > >
                              > > Then I load the finished L and R stitched and fixed panoramas into PTGui and level them again each other and finetune
                              > > the scene levelling.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > You will think this has too many steps and I could have stitched directly from the fisheyes but I think the solution I got
                              > > with the second generation images (equi strips from the parallelised calibrated fisheyes) was quite a bit more accurate
                              > > than what I got directly from stitching the first L fisheye test stitch. But sometimes directly from the fisheyes is better.
                              > >
                              > > Peter M
                              > >
                              >
                            • panovrx
                              ... Single camera methods are only good for static scenes PeterM
                              Message 14 of 29 , Dec 21, 2010
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                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Congratulations Peter! your 3D pano is awesome.
                                > I have a question, why you are using 2 cameras? I mean, what are the advantages of using two cameras instead of one (Wim's method).
                                > Because I thought that the advantage was less pictures, but 50 shots is the same number of pictures needed with one camera.
                                >
                                > Regards!
                                > Enrique
                                >
                                Single camera methods are only good for static scenes

                                PeterM
                              • Ignacio Ferrando Margelí
                                Peter, that s really amazing!! I NEED to try that!!!! regards ... Ignacio Ferrando Margelí Abaco Digital http://www.abaco-digital.com [Non-text portions of
                                Message 15 of 29 , Dec 22, 2010
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                                  Peter,

                                  that's really amazing!!

                                  I NEED to try that!!!!


                                  regards



                                  El 19/12/2010, a las 00:35, panovrx escribi�:

                                  > http://www.mediavr.com/artgallerystereoana.htm
                                  >
                                  > from about 4.5m with 50 shots in 18 seconds on a rotating twin 5D/10.5mm rig with camera separation 25cm
                                  > ...like
                                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwzCMPeS6JE
                                  > except with the cameras further apart and hanging down from a bar and rotating slower
                                  >
                                  > When you are far enough away from the nearest feature, like high on a pole, quite large disparity pano pairs can be stitched
                                  >
                                  > PeterM
                                  >
                                  >

                                  ----------------------------------------------------------

                                  Ignacio Ferrando Margel�

                                  Abaco Digital

                                  http://www.abaco-digital.com







                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • enridp
                                  Hi Peter, you are right, but 50 pictures and 18 seconds it s the time needed for one camera, that s why I m so confused... What s the difference of taking 50
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Dec 22, 2010
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                                    Hi Peter, you are right, but 50 pictures and 18 seconds it's the time needed for one camera, that's why I'm so confused...
                                    What's the difference of taking 50 pictures in 18 with two cameras and 50 pictures in 18 seconds with one camera?

                                    Regards!!
                                    Enrique.

                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Congratulations Peter! your 3D pano is awesome.
                                    > > I have a question, why you are using 2 cameras? I mean, what are the advantages of using two cameras instead of one (Wim's method).
                                    > > Because I thought that the advantage was less pictures, but 50 shots is the same number of pictures needed with one camera.
                                    > >
                                    > > Regards!
                                    > > Enrique
                                    > >
                                    > Single camera methods are only good for static scenes
                                    >
                                    > PeterM
                                    >
                                  • panovrx
                                    ... Sorry I dont understand your question then. 50 shots each per camera, 100 altogether, with my panorama, if that makes it clearer. PeterM
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Dec 22, 2010
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                                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "enridp" <enridp@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Peter, you are right, but 50 pictures and 18 seconds it's the time needed for one camera, that's why I'm so confused...
                                      > What's the difference of taking 50 pictures in 18 with two cameras and 50 pictures in 18 seconds with one camera?
                                      >
                                      > Regards!!
                                      > Enrique.
                                      >

                                      Sorry I dont understand your question then. 50 shots each per camera, 100 altogether, with my panorama, if that makes it clearer.

                                      PeterM
                                    • onezebra1
                                      This information is very much appreciated as I m going to give this 3D shooting a try. My second Canon 5D-2 should be arriving tomorrow and I already have 2
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Dec 22, 2010
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                                        This information is very much appreciated as I'm going to give this 3D shooting a try.
                                        My second Canon 5D-2 should be arriving tomorrow and I already have 2 Nikon 10.5mm lens, but I'm thinking of trying it with 2 Canon 15mm mounted diagonally.

                                        Roger Berry
                                      • Wim Koornneef
                                        Hello Enrique, Peter is right, a single cam solution can only be used for a static or frozen scene. The main difference in using a single cam or a dual cam
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Dec 24, 2010
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                                          Hello Enrique,

                                          Peter is right, a single cam solution can only be used for a static or
                                          frozen scene.

                                          The main difference in using a single cam or a dual cam solution is not
                                          about the shooting time, or the number of images, or the rotation speed, or
                                          the fact that 2 cameras are used, no it is about the time shift between the
                                          stitched and aligned left/right images.

                                          Depending on the shooting params (rotation speed, hFOV, out of NPP forward
                                          lens shift) it can happen that the time shift can be many seconds between
                                          the left and the right image.
                                          For static objects a few seconds time shift is never an issue but as soon as
                                          there are moving objects in the scene you get super ghosting when the left
                                          and right images are used for 3D.
                                          Each of the individual left and right images can be looking great but when
                                          you use them together you get "super ghosting".

                                          For this reason you always have to use a dual cam solution in a dynamic
                                          scene and even then it can be very hard to get rid of "normal ghosting"
                                          between the images of the same camera , to tackle this problem Peter is
                                          using Smartblend with relatively small vertical strips. Strips are used and
                                          not the full equirectangulars to make sure that Smartblend will only work on
                                          2 neighbouring images and not on a large series of images to prevent time
                                          shift errors and even then it can be needed to repair errors.

                                          I am sure Peter had a bit of luck with this pano because a rotation speed of
                                          18 seconds relatively slow, generally "faster" is always "better".

                                          Wim
                                          --
                                          View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3163050.html
                                          Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                        • no way
                                          ... Hello, Not entirely true. There is always the Loreo lens in a cap solution. K
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Dec 24, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wim Koornneef <wim.koornneef@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Hello Enrique,
                                            >
                                            > Peter is right, a single cam solution can only be used for a static or
                                            > frozen scene.

                                            Hello,
                                            Not entirely true. There is always the Loreo lens in a cap solution.
                                            K
                                          • Wim Koornneef
                                            ... Indeed, not entirely true. For partial stereo panos, stills and video the Loreo lens is a fine solution but for making a full 360 pano this lens is
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Dec 24, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              klroost wrote:
                                              > ... Not entirely true. There is always the Loreo lens in a cap
                                              > solution....

                                              Indeed, not entirely true. For partial stereo panos, stills and video the
                                              Loreo lens is a fine solution but for making a full 360 pano this lens is
                                              (unfortunately) not suited.

                                              Wim
                                              --
                                              View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3163439.html
                                              Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                            • enridp
                                              I understand now why Peter used two cameras ^_^ Thanks Wim!!!
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Dec 29, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I understand now why Peter used two cameras ^_^
                                                Thanks Wim!!!


                                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wim Koornneef <wim.koornneef@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Hello Enrique,
                                                >
                                                > Peter is right, a single cam solution can only be used for a static or
                                                > frozen scene.
                                                >
                                                > The main difference in using a single cam or a dual cam solution is not
                                                > about the shooting time, or the number of images, or the rotation speed, or
                                                > the fact that 2 cameras are used, no it is about the time shift between the
                                                > stitched and aligned left/right images.
                                                >
                                                > Depending on the shooting params (rotation speed, hFOV, out of NPP forward
                                                > lens shift) it can happen that the time shift can be many seconds between
                                                > the left and the right image.
                                                > For static objects a few seconds time shift is never an issue but as soon as
                                                > there are moving objects in the scene you get super ghosting when the left
                                                > and right images are used for 3D.
                                                > Each of the individual left and right images can be looking great but when
                                                > you use them together you get "super ghosting".
                                                >
                                                > For this reason you always have to use a dual cam solution in a dynamic
                                                > scene and even then it can be very hard to get rid of "normal ghosting"
                                                > between the images of the same camera , to tackle this problem Peter is
                                                > using Smartblend with relatively small vertical strips. Strips are used and
                                                > not the full equirectangulars to make sure that Smartblend will only work on
                                                > 2 neighbouring images and not on a large series of images to prevent time
                                                > shift errors and even then it can be needed to repair errors.
                                                >
                                                > I am sure Peter had a bit of luck with this pano because a rotation speed of
                                                > 18 seconds relatively slow, generally "faster" is always "better".
                                                >
                                                > Wim
                                                > --
                                                > View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3163050.html
                                                > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                                >
                                              • panovrx
                                                ... Here is another one with much the same workflow but slightly closer camera separation (about 20cm) -- of a large inflatable walk-in structure
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jan 5, 2011
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "onezebra1" <onezebra1@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > This information is very much appreciated as I'm going to give this 3D shooting a try.
                                                  > My second Canon 5D-2 should be arriving tomorrow and I already have 2 Nikon 10.5mm lens, but I'm thinking of trying it with 2 Canon 15mm mounted diagonally.
                                                  >
                                                  > Roger Berry
                                                  >

                                                  Here is another one with much the same workflow but slightly closer camera separation (about 20cm) -- of a large inflatable walk-in structure
                                                  http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozo.htm

                                                  This was more complicated to fix than the first one as there are so many people walking about. Smartblend blends ok most of the distant people groups but when the groups are closer, and hence in different lateral locations in the frame, it is less identical in its effects on each view. (We need a Smarterblend :-) which knows about lateral stereo disparities.) So I had to fix about 7 or 8 groups of people by pasting from individual view equis.

                                                  There is less vertical coverage with this one as I was experimenting with custom lens hoods to see I could get better contrast that way on a dull day.

                                                  PeterM
                                                • panovrx
                                                  I made another version of this that will also work on an Ipad (with KRPano) http://www.mediavr.com/ipad3/mirazozo1f.htm Ipads are neat anaglyph pano viewing
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jan 6, 2011
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I made another version of this that will also work on an Ipad (with KRPano)
                                                    http://www.mediavr.com/ipad3/mirazozo1f.htm
                                                    Ipads are neat anaglyph pano viewing devices. They have good color so the anaglyph extinction is good. The large black bezel helps the immersion and you can hold it close so your angle of view is more orthographic (same fov) as the cameras' (if you have a standard 75 degree or so default view set in the pano). And pinch zooming seems very natural with 3d content.

                                                    With Krpano, as with Pano2VR etc it is very necessary to follow Wim's anaglyph recipe to get good jpgs without color compression artefacts and replace Krpano's autogenerated Ipad jpgs with your own Irfanview saved ones
                                                    cf.
                                                    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/40899

                                                    PeterM



                                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "onezebra1" <onezebra1@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > This information is very much appreciated as I'm going to give this 3D shooting a try.
                                                    > > My second Canon 5D-2 should be arriving tomorrow and I already have 2 Nikon 10.5mm lens, but I'm thinking of trying it with 2 Canon 15mm mounted diagonally.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Roger Berry
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > Here is another one with much the same workflow but slightly closer camera separation (about 20cm) -- of a large inflatable walk-in structure
                                                    > http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozo.htm
                                                    >
                                                    > This was more complicated to fix than the first one as there are so many people walking about. Smartblend blends ok most of the distant people groups but when the groups are closer, and hence in different lateral locations in the frame, it is less identical in its effects on each view. (We need a Smarterblend :-) which knows about lateral stereo disparities.) So I had to fix about 7 or 8 groups of people by pasting from individual view equis.
                                                    >
                                                    > There is less vertical coverage with this one as I was experimenting with custom lens hoods to see I could get better contrast that way on a dull day.
                                                    >
                                                    > PeterM
                                                    >
                                                  • jrgen_schrader
                                                    A nice scenery as well, but I see a huge amount of what Wim calls pesty ghosts . Which is where the shapes of the red and/or green structures are visible
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jan 6, 2011
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      A nice scenery as well, but I see a huge amount of what Wim calls "pesty ghosts". Which is where the shapes of the red and/or green structures are visible around the objects.

                                                      Thanks for sharing
                                                      Jürgen





                                                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "onezebra1" <onezebra1@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > This information is very much appreciated as I'm going to give this 3D shooting a try.
                                                      > > My second Canon 5D-2 should be arriving tomorrow and I already have 2 Nikon 10.5mm lens, but I'm thinking of trying it with 2 Canon 15mm mounted diagonally.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Roger Berry
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > Here is another one with much the same workflow but slightly closer camera separation (about 20cm) -- of a large inflatable walk-in structure
                                                      > http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozo.htm
                                                      >
                                                      > This was more complicated to fix than the first one as there are so many people walking about. Smartblend blends ok most of the distant people groups but when the groups are closer, and hence in different lateral locations in the frame, it is less identical in its effects on each view. (We need a Smarterblend :-) which knows about lateral stereo disparities.) So I had to fix about 7 or 8 groups of people by pasting from individual view equis.
                                                      >
                                                      > There is less vertical coverage with this one as I was experimenting with custom lens hoods to see I could get better contrast that way on a dull day.
                                                      >
                                                      > PeterM
                                                      >
                                                    • Wim Koornneef
                                                      ... Hello Jürgen, I agree, a very nice scene. It must be great to live in such a vibrant city as Sydney, I was there in december 1999 and I have walked on the
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jan 7, 2011
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                                                        jrgen_schrader wrote:
                                                        > ....A nice scenery as well, but I see a huge amount of what Wim calls
                                                        > "pesty ghosts". Which is where the shapes of the red and/or green
                                                        > structures are visible around the objects.....

                                                        Hello Jürgen, I agree, a very nice scene.
                                                        It must be great to live in such a vibrant city as Sydney, I was there in
                                                        december 1999 and I have walked on the same spot as this pano is shot. This
                                                        pano is helping me to remember how great the view is from here.

                                                        IMO this panorama also shows why it can be very hard to make a good 3D pano.

                                                        When you take a look at the man standing close to the blue borders and to
                                                        some tourist close by then it is obvious that the lens seperation of 20 cm
                                                        is to much. When looking at those close by objects I get severe eye stress
                                                        but when looking over the water to the high buildings far away then the
                                                        scene almost look flat and 2D in the background so instead of 20 cm 40 cm or
                                                        more would be better.
                                                        So for certain parts in this pano 20 cm is to much and for other parts it is
                                                        not enough.
                                                        Go figure....

                                                        About the ghosts, I can see them too esspacially around the largest
                                                        inflatable objects and inside the Opera house.

                                                        Peter knows how to tackle red/cyan ghosting and I have no doubts that he did
                                                        his best, perhaps his monitor is not well calibrated (or your and mine
                                                        monitor needs service ;-)

                                                        In practice it is impossible to make a 3D anaglyph that is ghost free on all
                                                        monitors.
                                                        Ghosting is most times less visible when using the ColorCode 3D system but
                                                        the amber/blue viewers for it are not as common as the red/cyan ones.

                                                        I have good hopes that in 5 yr or so this problem will be gone when a lot of
                                                        people (including us) will have real 3D monitors.
                                                        All panos we shoot now and are suffering from ghost problems when viewed as
                                                        anaglyph will then be looking great when we use the left and right eye panos
                                                        we are now using for making the anaglyphs.

                                                        The future is bright and for sure in 3D :-))

                                                        Wim


                                                        --
                                                        View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3190613.html
                                                        Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                                      • panovrx
                                                        this is a very extensive 2d/3d tour -- from the krpano forum http://www.jphd360.net/visites/LeFortdeBron/LeFortdeBron.html .. the depth is quite subdued in
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jan 7, 2011
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          this is a very extensive 2d/3d tour -- from the krpano forum
                                                          http://www.jphd360.net/visites/LeFortdeBron/LeFortdeBron.html
                                                          .. the depth is quite subdued in anaglyph but I am sure it looks great on a 3d display

                                                          PeterM



                                                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wim Koornneef <wim.koornneef@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > jrgen_schrader wrote:
                                                          > > ....A nice scenery as well, but I see a huge amount of what Wim calls
                                                          > > "pesty ghosts". Which is where the shapes of the red and/or green
                                                          > > structures are visible around the objects.....
                                                          >
                                                          > Hello Jürgen, I agree, a very nice scene.
                                                          > It must be great to live in such a vibrant city as Sydney, I was there in
                                                          > december 1999 and I have walked on the same spot as this pano is shot. This
                                                          > pano is helping me to remember how great the view is from here.
                                                          >
                                                          > IMO this panorama also shows why it can be very hard to make a good 3D pano.
                                                          >
                                                          > When you take a look at the man standing close to the blue borders and to
                                                          > some tourist close by then it is obvious that the lens seperation of 20 cm
                                                          > is to much. When looking at those close by objects I get severe eye stress
                                                          > but when looking over the water to the high buildings far away then the
                                                          > scene almost look flat and 2D in the background so instead of 20 cm 40 cm or
                                                          > more would be better.
                                                          > So for certain parts in this pano 20 cm is to much and for other parts it is
                                                          > not enough.
                                                          > Go figure....
                                                          >
                                                          > About the ghosts, I can see them too esspacially around the largest
                                                          > inflatable objects and inside the Opera house.
                                                          >
                                                          > Peter knows how to tackle red/cyan ghosting and I have no doubts that he did
                                                          > his best, perhaps his monitor is not well calibrated (or your and mine
                                                          > monitor needs service ;-)
                                                          >
                                                          > In practice it is impossible to make a 3D anaglyph that is ghost free on all
                                                          > monitors.
                                                          > Ghosting is most times less visible when using the ColorCode 3D system but
                                                          > the amber/blue viewers for it are not as common as the red/cyan ones.
                                                          >
                                                          > I have good hopes that in 5 yr or so this problem will be gone when a lot of
                                                          > people (including us) will have real 3D monitors.
                                                          > All panos we shoot now and are suffering from ghost problems when viewed as
                                                          > anaglyph will then be looking great when we use the left and right eye panos
                                                          > we are now using for making the anaglyphs.
                                                          >
                                                          > The future is bright and for sure in 3D :-))
                                                          >
                                                          > Wim
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --
                                                          > View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3190613.html
                                                          > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                                          >
                                                        • panovrx
                                                          Here is what it looks like inside that inflatable structure (2) http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozointerior1.htm (the sort of subject where auto point finding
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Jan 7, 2011
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            Here is what it looks like inside that inflatable structure (2)
                                                            http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozointerior1.htm
                                                            (the sort of subject where auto point finding fails utterly).
                                                            These spaces will make very good stereo panos I think and I will try to do some soon -- using a twin camera motorized indexing construction for capture.

                                                            Re the exterior 3d pano -- it was extremely dull and dark and at a higher iso which is source of the main ghosting issue apart from the depth range. Bringing up the shadows destroyed the highlight detail. I have been thinking for these kind of extensive views of public spaces where the architecture is important the higher the better mostly. I will try to shoot it with a higher pole in better light. Still I kinda like it as is for the way the people are spread out all over in different directions in little groups in 3d. The people act as a scale reference so you can see the depth where they are standing more clearly and quickly. Sometimes a 3d picture is so full of cues, including parallax, that the layout is apparent instantly. Sometimes it is a more extended process.

                                                            PeterM



                                                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > this is a very extensive 2d/3d tour -- from the krpano forum
                                                            > http://www.jphd360.net/visites/LeFortdeBron/LeFortdeBron.html
                                                            > .. the depth is quite subdued in anaglyph but I am sure it looks great on a 3d display
                                                            >
                                                            > PeterM
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wim Koornneef <wim.koornneef@> wrote:
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > jrgen_schrader wrote:
                                                            > > > ....A nice scenery as well, but I see a huge amount of what Wim calls
                                                            > > > "pesty ghosts". Which is where the shapes of the red and/or green
                                                            > > > structures are visible around the objects.....
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Hello Jürgen, I agree, a very nice scene.
                                                            > > It must be great to live in such a vibrant city as Sydney, I was there in
                                                            > > december 1999 and I have walked on the same spot as this pano is shot. This
                                                            > > pano is helping me to remember how great the view is from here.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > IMO this panorama also shows why it can be very hard to make a good 3D pano.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > When you take a look at the man standing close to the blue borders and to
                                                            > > some tourist close by then it is obvious that the lens seperation of 20 cm
                                                            > > is to much. When looking at those close by objects I get severe eye stress
                                                            > > but when looking over the water to the high buildings far away then the
                                                            > > scene almost look flat and 2D in the background so instead of 20 cm 40 cm or
                                                            > > more would be better.
                                                            > > So for certain parts in this pano 20 cm is to much and for other parts it is
                                                            > > not enough.
                                                            > > Go figure....
                                                            > >
                                                            > > About the ghosts, I can see them too esspacially around the largest
                                                            > > inflatable objects and inside the Opera house.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Peter knows how to tackle red/cyan ghosting and I have no doubts that he did
                                                            > > his best, perhaps his monitor is not well calibrated (or your and mine
                                                            > > monitor needs service ;-)
                                                            > >
                                                            > > In practice it is impossible to make a 3D anaglyph that is ghost free on all
                                                            > > monitors.
                                                            > > Ghosting is most times less visible when using the ColorCode 3D system but
                                                            > > the amber/blue viewers for it are not as common as the red/cyan ones.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > I have good hopes that in 5 yr or so this problem will be gone when a lot of
                                                            > > people (including us) will have real 3D monitors.
                                                            > > All panos we shoot now and are suffering from ghost problems when viewed as
                                                            > > anaglyph will then be looking great when we use the left and right eye panos
                                                            > > we are now using for making the anaglyphs.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > The future is bright and for sure in 3D :-))
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Wim
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > --
                                                            > > View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/Hyperstereo-pole-panorama-anaglyph-tp3094110p3190613.html
                                                            > > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                                            > >
                                                            >
                                                          • Andras Frenyo
                                                            for further reference, there are many more here: http://sziget360.com/archives/venue/Luminarium -andras ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Jan 8, 2011
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              for further reference, there are many more here:
                                                              http://sziget360.com/archives/venue/Luminarium

                                                              -andras


                                                              On Jan 8, 2011, at 8:47 AM, PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                                                              > Here is what it looks like inside that inflatable structure (2)
                                                              > http://www.mediavr.com/mirazozointerior1.htm



                                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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