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Software advise and others....

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  • David UmbertoZ
    Hello everybody, I was wondering if anyone could advise me on which software to use for both stitching and editing Quicktime / Flash / Html video considering
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 26, 2010
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      Hello everybody,

      I was wondering if anyone could advise me on which software to use for both stitching and editing Quicktime / Flash / Html video considering the following needs:

      1. I need to make professional interactive 360 virtual tours
      2. need to place a "map" on the tour
      3. export to various formats
      4. make professional navigation menus
      5. stitch (naturally) multi row (I shoot from fish eye to 35mm)

      Advice is vital. It may be also open source... I'm not picky as long as good software.

      I also need to ask another question: I recently shot a few test tours in very narrow spaces (like a boat cabin and others) and encountered the following problems:

      1. PTGui Pro (trial version) had problems stitching some images although I'm using a Manfrotto Pano head, thought to have calculated well the nodal point and took the images with a fisheye 10.5mm lense (since it was a digital lense had to select crop on my D3). I see that some straight lines are not lined up (please forgive me if I'm still learning technical terminology - doing my best)

      2. Although I'm also calculating hyperfocal distance (used the above lens at f22 focusing at hyperfocal distance which I don't remember now), farther away walls are not perfectly sharp. And this surprised me a bit. Imagine I'm standing close to a table that need to be in focus and there is a window at about 4mt away that also need to be in focus....

      I'm sure I'm the one doing something wrong.

      For your information:
      Images shot with Fisheye 10.5mm DX on a D3 (I know!!!) - 1 shot at +90º, 8 (with 50ºH steps) at +45º, 8 at -45º and one shot at -90º
      f22, 15sec., available light.


      THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
    • Hans
      ... First you may never use F22 if you want sharp images. Almost all lenses starts to get diffraction at F16. The 10,5 is already visibly soft at F16. The
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 26, 2010
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        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "David UmbertoZ" <davidumbertozappa@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello everybody,
        >
        > I was wondering if anyone could advise me on which software to use for both stitching and editing Quicktime / Flash / Html video considering the following needs:
        >
        > 1. I need to make professional interactive 360 virtual tours
        > 2. need to place a "map" on the tour
        > 3. export to various formats
        > 4. make professional navigation menus
        > 5. stitch (naturally) multi row (I shoot from fish eye to 35mm)
        >
        > Advice is vital. It may be also open source... I'm not picky as long as good software.
        >
        > I also need to ask another question: I recently shot a few test tours in very narrow spaces (like a boat cabin and others) and encountered the following problems:
        >
        > 1. PTGui Pro (trial version) had problems stitching some images although I'm using a Manfrotto Pano head, thought to have calculated well the nodal point and took the images with a fisheye 10.5mm lense (since it was a digital lense had to select crop on my D3). I see that some straight lines are not lined up (please forgive me if I'm still learning technical terminology - doing my best)
        >
        > 2. Although I'm also calculating hyperfocal distance (used the above lens at f22 focusing at hyperfocal distance which I don't remember now), farther away walls are not perfectly sharp. And this surprised me a bit. Imagine I'm standing close to a table that need to be in focus and there is a window at about 4mt away that also need to be in focus....
        >
        > I'm sure I'm the one doing something wrong.
        >
        > For your information:
        > Images shot with Fisheye 10.5mm DX on a D3 (I know!!!) - 1 shot at +90º, 8 (with 50ºH steps) at +45º, 8 at -45º and one shot at -90º
        > f22, 15sec., available light.
        >


        First you may never use F22 if you want sharp images.
        Almost all lenses starts to get diffraction at F16.
        The 10,5 is already visibly soft at F16.

        The depth of field is already very large at F8. Focus at 1m and you have from 0.4 to infinity at F8.

        Also you have shot to many images.With the 10.5 you just need 6 images at -10 degrees and one zenith at +90. You can shoot the zenith at anything from 60 to 90 degrees.
        It may help to shoot at 60 if you have very few subjects for controlpoints in it.

        It is also important to optimize correctly, you may have a large shift on your sensor and this will cause errors if you do not optimize for shift.

        Hans
      • David UmbertoZ
        Thanks a lot Hans.... shooting too many images is just a waste of time or may it also cause problems? Thanks again David
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 26, 2010
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          Thanks a lot Hans....
          shooting too many images is just a waste of time or may it also cause problems?
          Thanks again
          David


          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "David UmbertoZ" <davidumbertozappa@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello everybody,
          > >
          > > I was wondering if anyone could advise me on which software to use for both stitching and editing Quicktime / Flash / Html video considering the following needs:
          > >
          > > 1. I need to make professional interactive 360 virtual tours
          > > 2. need to place a "map" on the tour
          > > 3. export to various formats
          > > 4. make professional navigation menus
          > > 5. stitch (naturally) multi row (I shoot from fish eye to 35mm)
          > >
          > > Advice is vital. It may be also open source... I'm not picky as long as good software.
          > >
          > > I also need to ask another question: I recently shot a few test tours in very narrow spaces (like a boat cabin and others) and encountered the following problems:
          > >
          > > 1. PTGui Pro (trial version) had problems stitching some images although I'm using a Manfrotto Pano head, thought to have calculated well the nodal point and took the images with a fisheye 10.5mm lense (since it was a digital lense had to select crop on my D3). I see that some straight lines are not lined up (please forgive me if I'm still learning technical terminology - doing my best)
          > >
          > > 2. Although I'm also calculating hyperfocal distance (used the above lens at f22 focusing at hyperfocal distance which I don't remember now), farther away walls are not perfectly sharp. And this surprised me a bit. Imagine I'm standing close to a table that need to be in focus and there is a window at about 4mt away that also need to be in focus....
          > >
          > > I'm sure I'm the one doing something wrong.
          > >
          > > For your information:
          > > Images shot with Fisheye 10.5mm DX on a D3 (I know!!!) - 1 shot at +90º, 8 (with 50ºH steps) at +45º, 8 at -45º and one shot at -90º
          > > f22, 15sec., available light.
          > >
          >
          >
          > First you may never use F22 if you want sharp images.
          > Almost all lenses starts to get diffraction at F16.
          > The 10,5 is already visibly soft at F16.
          >
          > The depth of field is already very large at F8. Focus at 1m and you have from 0.4 to infinity at F8.
          >
          > Also you have shot to many images.With the 10.5 you just need 6 images at -10 degrees and one zenith at +90. You can shoot the zenith at anything from 60 to 90 degrees.
          > It may help to shoot at 60 if you have very few subjects for controlpoints in it.
          >
          > It is also important to optimize correctly, you may have a large shift on your sensor and this will cause errors if you do not optimize for shift.
          >
          > Hans
          >
        • Erik Krause
          ... It may cause problems. PTGui finds control points in non-adjacent images which sometimes confuses the optimizer and causes bad stitching results. There are
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 26, 2010
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            Am 26.10.2010 17:11, schrieb David UmbertoZ:

            > shooting too many images is just a waste of time or may it also cause problems?

            It may cause problems. PTGui finds control points in non-adjacent images
            which sometimes confuses the optimizer and causes bad stitching results.

            There are ways to crop the images in order to use only the inner,
            sharper regions, but this is advanced technique and you need to know
            what actually goes on, but as Hans wrote: at f/22 this won't help
            anything - the images are blurred by diffraction which is evenly
            distributed across the image.

            --
            Erik Krause
            http://www.erik-krause.de
          • David UmbertoZ
            My huge mistake. Thanks. At the moment I m testing also AutopanoGiga which seems to be able to stitch better than PTGui... less errors.
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 26, 2010
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              My huge mistake. Thanks. At the moment I'm testing also AutopanoGiga which seems to be able to stitch better than PTGui... less errors.


              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
              >
              > Am 26.10.2010 17:11, schrieb David UmbertoZ:
              >
              > > shooting too many images is just a waste of time or may it also cause problems?
              >
              > It may cause problems. PTGui finds control points in non-adjacent images
              > which sometimes confuses the optimizer and causes bad stitching results.
              >
              > There are ways to crop the images in order to use only the inner,
              > sharper regions, but this is advanced technique and you need to know
              > what actually goes on, but as Hans wrote: at f/22 this won't help
              > anything - the images are blurred by diffraction which is evenly
              > distributed across the image.
              >
              > --
              > Erik Krause
              > http://www.erik-krause.de
              >
            • John Houghton
              David, The very small images supplied are not good enough for PTGui to find any control points automatically. Probably the original images will fare better.
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 26, 2010
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                David, The very small images supplied are not good enough for PTGui to find any control points automatically. Probably the original images will fare better. The zenith and nadir images are both in an inconsistent orientation (landscape) and a different size to the other images (portrait). Ensure all the images are in the same orientation. They should all appear in the same orientation in the Source Images tab of PTGui. It also looks like a row of images is missing, since the nadir image doesn't match the lower row of images, as far as I can tell. All-in-all, a difficult set of images to stitch automatically. I would expect PTGui to stitch them well enough with a little help as Erik has suggested.

                John

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "David UmbertoZ" <davidumbertozappa@...> wrote:
                >
                > My huge mistake. Thanks. At the moment I'm testing also AutopanoGiga which seems to be able to stitch better than PTGui... less errors.
                >
                >
                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Am 26.10.2010 17:11, schrieb David UmbertoZ:
                > >
                > > > shooting too many images is just a waste of time or may it also cause problems?
                > >
                > > It may cause problems. PTGui finds control points in non-adjacent images
                > > which sometimes confuses the optimizer and causes bad stitching results.
                > >
                > > There are ways to crop the images in order to use only the inner,
                > > sharper regions, but this is advanced technique and you need to know
                > > what actually goes on, but as Hans wrote: at f/22 this won't help
                > > anything - the images are blurred by diffraction which is evenly
                > > distributed across the image.
                > >
                > > --
                > > Erik Krause
                > > http://www.erik-krause.de
                > >
                >
              • David UmbertoZ
                John, sorry I m a bit confused... I haven t shown you any files ... how do you know there is a missing row and all the rest you describe?? Are you assuming or
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 26, 2010
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                  John, sorry I'm a bit confused... I haven't shown you any files ... how do you know there is a missing row and all the rest you describe?? Are you assuming or are you actually answering someone else?
                  In fact I have imported in PTGui high res jpeg files exported form lightroom (I shoot raw naturally).

                  doing some tests, as said, it seems like AutoPanoGiga is doing a better job in stitching automatically. Still a few little misalignments but I think it can be fixed manually. Sill need to figure out how.
                  I'm doing some tests before buying the software and so far apg is doing the best job BUT, apg come with auto pano tour which exports only FLASH files and I need to be able to create tours also in QuickTime. As said, I'd like to create custom menu, add tripod caps, insert navigation maps etc.
                  adivce?
                  Thank you all for such quick responses!!

                  D

                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "John Houghton" <j.houghton@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > David, The very small images supplied are not good enough for PTGui to find any control points automatically. Probably the original images will fare better. The zenith and nadir images are both in an inconsistent orientation (landscape) and a different size to the other images (portrait). Ensure all the images are in the same orientation. They should all appear in the same orientation in the Source Images tab of PTGui. It also looks like a row of images is missing, since the nadir image doesn't match the lower row of images, as far as I can tell. All-in-all, a difficult set of images to stitch automatically. I would expect PTGui to stitch them well enough with a little help as Erik has suggested.
                  >
                  > John
                  >
                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "David UmbertoZ" <davidumbertozappa@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > My huge mistake. Thanks. At the moment I'm testing also AutopanoGiga which seems to be able to stitch better than PTGui... less errors.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Am 26.10.2010 17:11, schrieb David UmbertoZ:
                  > > >
                  > > > > shooting too many images is just a waste of time or may it also cause problems?
                  > > >
                  > > > It may cause problems. PTGui finds control points in non-adjacent images
                  > > > which sometimes confuses the optimizer and causes bad stitching results.
                  > > >
                  > > > There are ways to crop the images in order to use only the inner,
                  > > > sharper regions, but this is advanced technique and you need to know
                  > > > what actually goes on, but as Hans wrote: at f/22 this won't help
                  > > > anything - the images are blurred by diffraction which is evenly
                  > > > distributed across the image.
                  > > >
                  > > > --
                  > > > Erik Krause
                  > > > http://www.erik-krause.de
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • John Houghton
                  ... David, I m not surprised. I responded to the wrong post. Sorry. I ll resend it to the right place. Johhn
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 26, 2010
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                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "David UmbertoZ" <davidumbertozappa@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > John, sorry I'm a bit confused...

                    David, I'm not surprised. I responded to the wrong post. Sorry. I'll resend it to the right place.

                    Johhn
                  • Robert C. Fisher
                    Not necessarily, I have not gotten a decent stitch out of Autopano Pro when using my Nikkor 14mm rectilinear with Aspherical elements. I get near perfect
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 26, 2010
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                      Not necessarily, I have not gotten a decent stitch out of Autopano Pro
                      when using my Nikkor 14mm rectilinear with Aspherical elements. I get
                      near perfect stitches with PTGui. I have had projects with 100 or more
                      panos I stitched using the Nikkor 14mm and PTGui with excellent
                      results. Just my experiences. I have used Autopano Pro for some things
                      but it's not the best tool for most of my work. Also as Hans notes I
                      have gotten really sharp images from my 10.5mm Nikkor FF. I shoot at
                      f8-11 and have tested my focus and it's more or less permanently set
                      for most panos. The only exception is rooms with very close objects
                      which I then set the focus a bit closer. Using hyperfocal distances
                      can be tricky since you have to use the right radius and I have not
                      found them to be accurate for digital cameras. Testing is the best way
                      to figure out what works. Most lenses the focus scale is there just
                      for grins and is in no way accurate. If you are using professional
                      cinema lenses this is not the case but for most consumer lenses this
                      holds true. This is why testing is more important in the digital
                      world. Also testing and setting the nodal point for each camera and
                      lens is very important, things change too easily in the digital world
                      that will affect your results.

                      To get consistent good results you should learn a bit about optics and
                      the craft of photography this will help you a lot in the future. In
                      the new digital world nothing is forever and can change overnight so
                      knowledge is king.


                      On Oct 26, 2010, at 8:49 AM, David UmbertoZ wrote:

                      > My huge mistake. Thanks. At the moment I'm testing also AutopanoGiga
                      > which seems to be able to stitch better than PTGui... less errors.
                      >
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Am 26.10.2010 17:11, schrieb David UmbertoZ:
                      > >
                      > > > shooting too many images is just a waste of time or may it also
                      > cause problems?
                      > >
                      > > It may cause problems. PTGui finds control points in non-adjacent
                      > images
                      > > which sometimes confuses the optimizer and causes bad stitching
                      > results.
                      > >
                      > > There are ways to crop the images in order to use only the inner,
                      > > sharper regions, but this is advanced technique and you need to know
                      > > what actually goes on, but as Hans wrote: at f/22 this won't help
                      > > anything - the images are blurred by diffraction which is evenly
                      > > distributed across the image.
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Erik Krause
                      > > http://www.erik-krause.de
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      Cheers
                      Robert C. Fisher
                      VR Photography / Cinematography
                      bob@...
                      http://www.rcfisher.com
                      Facebook - Robert C. Fisher






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David UmbertoZ
                      Thank you Robert, well, I must say I have never used a fisheye lense nor a pano head in fact I normally do a totally different type of photography as a
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 26, 2010
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                        Thank you Robert,

                        well, I must say I have never used a fisheye lense nor a pano head in fact I normally do a totally different type of photography as a professional BUT it has been an unforgivable mistake (and I should have known better) to use f22.... I was a bit nervous and carried away by all the complexity I was facing at as shooting for the first time a virtual tour.

                        I followed instructions for "calibrating" the head for several lenses and while doing tests I thought I had set them right regarding the nodal point of the different lenses (even if I ended up using only the fisheye). Then as shooting in REALLY narrow spaces...well, seems like my regulations were a bit off.

                        Now, regarding the software to use... again, I'm doing tests with several ones using always the same photos and SO FAR I seem to have better results with the above said app.
                        This is why I wrote you guys.

                        now exploring the actual QTime & Flash export programs


                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert C. Fisher" <bob@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Not necessarily, I have not gotten a decent stitch out of Autopano Pro
                        > when using my Nikkor 14mm rectilinear with Aspherical elements. I get
                        > near perfect stitches with PTGui. I have had projects with 100 or more
                        > panos I stitched using the Nikkor 14mm and PTGui with excellent
                        > results. Just my experiences. I have used Autopano Pro for some things
                        > but it's not the best tool for most of my work. Also as Hans notes I
                        > have gotten really sharp images from my 10.5mm Nikkor FF. I shoot at
                        > f8-11 and have tested my focus and it's more or less permanently set
                        > for most panos. The only exception is rooms with very close objects
                        > which I then set the focus a bit closer. Using hyperfocal distances
                        > can be tricky since you have to use the right radius and I have not
                        > found them to be accurate for digital cameras. Testing is the best way
                        > to figure out what works. Most lenses the focus scale is there just
                        > for grins and is in no way accurate. If you are using professional
                        > cinema lenses this is not the case but for most consumer lenses this
                        > holds true. This is why testing is more important in the digital
                        > world. Also testing and setting the nodal point for each camera and
                        > lens is very important, things change too easily in the digital world
                        > that will affect your results.
                        >
                        > To get consistent good results you should learn a bit about optics and
                        > the craft of photography this will help you a lot in the future. In
                        > the new digital world nothing is forever and can change overnight so
                        > knowledge is king.
                        >
                        >
                        > On Oct 26, 2010, at 8:49 AM, David UmbertoZ wrote:
                        >
                        > > My huge mistake. Thanks. At the moment I'm testing also AutopanoGiga
                        > > which seems to be able to stitch better than PTGui... less errors.
                        > >
                        > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Am 26.10.2010 17:11, schrieb David UmbertoZ:
                        > > >
                        > > > > shooting too many images is just a waste of time or may it also
                        > > cause problems?
                        > > >
                        > > > It may cause problems. PTGui finds control points in non-adjacent
                        > > images
                        > > > which sometimes confuses the optimizer and causes bad stitching
                        > > results.
                        > > >
                        > > > There are ways to crop the images in order to use only the inner,
                        > > > sharper regions, but this is advanced technique and you need to know
                        > > > what actually goes on, but as Hans wrote: at f/22 this won't help
                        > > > anything - the images are blurred by diffraction which is evenly
                        > > > distributed across the image.
                        > > >
                        > > > --
                        > > > Erik Krause
                        > > > http://www.erik-krause.de
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > Cheers
                        > Robert C. Fisher
                        > VR Photography / Cinematography
                        > bob@...
                        > http://www.rcfisher.com
                        > Facebook - Robert C. Fisher
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • tom_a_sparks
                        ... ... you use Pano2VR (http://gardengnomesoftware.com/pano2vr.php) to create both flash and QTVR from a spherical (equirectangular) image file
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 26, 2010
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                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "David UmbertoZ" <davidumbertozappa@...> wrote:
                          <snip>
                          > now exploring the actual QTime & Flash export programs
                          >
                          <snip>

                          you use Pano2VR (http://gardengnomesoftware.com/pano2vr.php) to create both flash and QTVR from a spherical (equirectangular) image file

                          here is a list of flash and java viewers http://www.panoramaphotographer.com/comparisons/

                          tom
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