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Re: [PanoToolsNG] concentric mosaics

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  • Thomas Rauscher
    Hello Matti, on Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 20:32:31 you wrote: MK I ve coded a simple demo of panoramas using concentric mosaics. My code MK isn t yet ready to
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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      Hello Matti,

      on Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 20:32:31 you wrote:

      MK> I've coded a simple demo of panoramas using concentric mosaics. My code
      MK> isn't yet ready to show publicly, but it shows that I understood
      MK> correctly the idea....

      Wow, the paper is a very interesting read! What are your plans for the
      program/sourcecode? I guess since you are in Europe you don't have to
      fear any patent problems even if there are patents, because SW patents
      are not (yet) allowed. The described algorithm is plain mathematics so
      you could have come up with the same formulas by yourself... But I am
      not a lawyer.

      MK> The best thing would be to find a decent gearbox with say 10:1
      MK> ratio. There's been discussion about Mindstorms, could it be
      MK> possible to make a gearbox out of them?

      Yes with some extra Lego parts, but I guess something like
      http://nanotec.com/page_getriebe_stirnrad_en.html will do a better
      job.

      MfG,
      Thomas.
    • Matti Koskinen
      ... I ve written mainly open source software for linux, and as my program uses open source OpenCV, which works both in windows and linux, the best thing is to
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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        Thomas Rauscher kirjoitti:
        > Hello Matti,
        >
        >
        > Wow, the paper is a very interesting read! What are your plans for the
        > program/sourcecode? I guess since you are in Europe you don't have to
        > fear any patent problems even if there are patents, because SW patents
        > are not (yet) allowed. The described algorithm is plain mathematics so
        > you could have come up with the same formulas by yourself... But I am
        > not a lawyer.
        >
        >
        I've written mainly open source software for linux, and as my program
        uses open source OpenCV, which works both in windows and linux, the best
        thing is to put my code open source.


        > MK> The best thing would be to find a decent gearbox with say 10:1
        > MK> ratio. There's been discussion about Mindstorms, could it be
        > MK> possible to make a gearbox out of them?
        >
        > Yes with some extra Lego parts, but I guess something like
        > http://nanotec.com/page_getriebe_stirnrad_en.html will do a better
        > job.
        >
        >
        Thanks for the link, if I find a suitable motor, I just might order it.
        > MfG,
        > Thomas.
        >
        >
        >
        Thanks,

        -matti

        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • alexandre
        Hello Matti, I must say, this new way to display panorama and create them is really interesting. The demo from microsoft research lab gives a good impression
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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          Hello Matti,

          I must say, this new way to display panorama and create them is really
          interesting. The demo from microsoft research lab gives a good
          impression of what can be done with such a technology. If you think
          about it for the future, let's just have a java class to display them,
          we could remplace any online viewer with this one and you'll have the
          possibility to move around in the panorama.

          The drawback of this method is that it's only a "codec" technic
          working like a multichannel panorama. All the hard work is done in
          fact at shooting time. I'm wondering if the process here can deal with
          a small number of photos (let's say 8 pictures on pole for a 360°).
          Interterpolation between them is needed and I don't see any simple
          method to do that.

          Realviz showed another tools some time ago called VTour which try to
          do the same. It uses a standard spherical panorama as input, and does
          the projection of pixels to a 3D scene you've build around the
          panorama. So you'll get a full 3d scene with reprojected texture on
          wall, floor, etc. When displaying the panorama, you also have the
          ability to move around near the center of the panorama. You can go
          far, but texture goes ugly really soon.

          Alexandre
        • Matti Koskinen
          Hi Alexandre ... The problem with this is that the files are quite big. There s been vector quantisation to reduce the size or other methods as well..
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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            Hi Alexandre

            alexandre kirjoitti:
            > Hello Matti,
            >
            > I must say, this new way to display panorama and create them is really
            > interesting. The demo from microsoft research lab gives a good
            > impression of what can be done with such a technology. If you think
            > about it for the future, let's just have a java class to display them,
            > we could remplace any online viewer with this one and you'll have the
            > possibility to move around in the panorama.
            >
            The problem with this is that the files are quite big. There's been
            vector quantisation to reduce the size or other methods as well..
            Depending how many concentric mosaics are used, the image size can be up
            to 150 megs uncompressed using 320x240 basic image resolution.
            >
            > The drawback of this method is that it's only a "codec" technic
            > working like a multichannel panorama. All the hard work is done in
            > fact at shooting time. I'm wondering if the process here can deal with
            > a small number of photos (let's say 8 pictures on pole for a 360°).
            > Interterpolation between them is needed and I don't see any simple
            > method to do that.
            >
            I don't think it's possible. The main idea is to capture only a slit and
            the 3d information is in the other slits. But I have an idea...
            There is a paper of handheld video camera for cm, but it's getting
            quite complicated. The structure from motion must be calculated to do
            all the corrections and the images are interpolated to ensure even movement.
            >
            > Realviz showed another tools some time ago called VTour which try to
            > do the same. It uses a standard spherical panorama as input, and does
            > the projection of pixels to a 3D scene you've build around the
            > panorama. So you'll get a full 3d scene with reprojected texture on
            > wall, floor, etc. When displaying the panorama, you also have the
            > ability to move around near the center of the panorama. You can go
            > far, but texture goes ugly really soon.
            >
            > Alexandre
            >
            >
            best
            -matti

            >
            >
          • Thomas Rauscher
            Hello Matti, ... MK I ve written mainly open source software for linux, and as my program MK uses open source OpenCV, which works both in windows and linux,
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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              Hello Matti,

              on Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 07:31:49 you wrote:

              >> Wow, the paper is a very interesting read! What are your plans for the
              >> program/sourcecode? I guess since you are in Europe you don't have to
              >> fear any patent problems even if there are patents, because SW patents
              >> are not (yet) allowed. The described algorithm is plain mathematics so
              >> you could have come up with the same formulas by yourself... But I am
              >> not a lawyer.

              MK> I've written mainly open source software for linux, and as my program
              MK> uses open source OpenCV, which works both in windows and linux, the best
              MK> thing is to put my code open source.

              May I ask why you choose OpenCV? I found this very unstable and buggy
              when I used it for some tests.

              MfG,
              Thomas.
            • Matti Koskinen
              ... I ve found it stable :-) I ve had only one error in cvSVD in linux, it crashed occasionally, But otherwise I ve had no problems with it. And my great idea
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                Thomas Rauscher kirjoitti:
                > May I ask why you choose OpenCV? I found this very unstable and buggy
                > when I used it for some tests.
                >
                > MfG,
                > Thomas.
                >
                I've found it stable :-) I've had only one error in cvSVD in linux, it
                crashed occasionally, But otherwise I've had no problems with it. And my
                great idea of using view morphing to interpolate is readily available
                in opencv. Only the number of pictures taken must still be quite high to
                create good view morphing, Alexandre's hope to take only 8, doesn't work
                at all. (or maybe the view morphing algorithm in opencv is buggy! :-)

                best
                -matti

                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Thomas Rauscher
                Hello Matti, on Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 12:31:00 you wrote: ... MK I ve found it stable :-) I ve had only one error in cvSVD in linux, it MK crashed
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                  Hello Matti,

                  on Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 12:31:00 you wrote:

                  MK> Thomas Rauscher kirjoitti:
                  >> May I ask why you choose OpenCV? I found this very unstable and buggy
                  >> when I used it for some tests.
                  MK> I've found it stable :-) I've had only one error in cvSVD in linux, it
                  MK> crashed occasionally, But otherwise I've had no problems with it. And my
                  MK> great idea of using view morphing to interpolate is readily available
                  MK> in opencv. Only the number of pictures taken must still be quite high to
                  MK> create good view morphing, Alexandre's hope to take only 8, doesn't work
                  MK> at all. (or maybe the view morphing algorithm in opencv is buggy! :-)

                  Maybe you can debug it and it will work with one normal pano! ;)
                  I am looking forward to see your app!

                  When I looked for some more papers I found these two interesting
                  things. These are recordings of talks at Google so we can imaging what
                  version >4 of Google Earth will look like.

                  First:
                  Photorealistic modeling of large-scale scenes.
                  Its like an Object Movie++
                  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1005515064833507247

                  And Virtual LA
                  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6435877356667287710

                  The interesting thing is that both use Photographs as a basis of their
                  models so I hope you also find it interesting but I am aware that this
                  is getting a bit OT.

                  MfG,
                  Thomas.
                • Sam
                  Hey there, Did anyone try out the new autopano from autopano.net, claims to do HDR on the fly. Tried with 8mm lens but didnt quite do the right job, found out
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                    Hey there,

                    Did anyone try out the new autopano from autopano.net, claims to do HDR
                    on the fly. Tried with 8mm lens but didnt quite do the right job, found
                    out it isnt compatible yet with fisheyes.

                    Try it out!

                    Sam
                  • yuval levy
                    ... I did try it out a few weeks ago. 8mm sigma. I hold my camera tilted 34° sideways when shooting panos. Autopano did order them like stairs. It was nice to
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                      --- Sam <mygroups@...> wrote:
                      > Did anyone try out the new autopano from
                      > autopano.net, claims to do HDR
                      > on the fly. Tried with 8mm lens but didnt quite do
                      > the right job, found
                      > out it isnt compatible yet with fisheyes.


                      I did try it out a few weeks ago. 8mm sigma. I hold my
                      camera tilted 34° sideways when shooting panos.
                      Autopano did order them like stairs. It was nice to
                      look at but not exactly right. Alexandre told me that
                      fisheye support is coming soon.

                      Yuv

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                    • alexandre
                      Autopano Pro is currently in the v1.3 branch which aims is to give some manual tools to correct a panorama. Yesterday, phase 2 of beta 3 was released with many
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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                        Autopano Pro is currently in the v1.3 branch which aims is to give
                        some manual tools to correct a panorama. Yesterday, phase 2 of beta 3
                        was released with many new features. Just have a look here :
                        http://www.autopano.net/beta

                        We were forced to postpone Fisheyes support before for such lens, you
                        need more offen a manual mode than for standard lens. That's why we
                        decided to first release a control point editor in the product before
                        the activation of fisheye. But fisheye is already working internally,
                        I just cannot activate them until control point editor is finished. I
                        just want this feature working for 95% of panorama, that's huge and
                        needs many finetunning.

                        For information about current development :
                        our devBlog : http://blog.autopano.net
                        our community forum : http://forum.autopano.net

                        Alexandre


                        > I did try it out a few weeks ago. 8mm sigma. I hold my
                        > camera tilted 34° sideways when shooting panos.
                        > Autopano did order them like stairs. It was nice to
                        > look at but not exactly right. Alexandre told me that
                        > fisheye support is coming soon.
                        >
                        > Yuv
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