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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2VR 3.0 beta

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  • Christian Bloch
    ... That s true. Maybe a grab-drag style (with some more inertia) should be default for touch devices and click-spin for mouse computers. Both optional, with a
    Message 1 of 26 , Aug 3, 2010
      On Aug 3, 2010, at 9:36 AM, Robert Bilsland wrote:

      > As for what feels the most natural method to use it's all personal choice, but I've found that on touch based devices it's very natural to grab the view you can see and feel like you are physically moving it.

      That's true. Maybe a grab-drag style (with some more inertia) should be default for touch devices and click-spin for mouse computers. Both optional, with a switcher button...

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Keith Martin
      ... So do I. And far more than the issue of which direction to drag, I HATE that I can t click-drag-hold to keep turning. This is a big fat fly in the
      Message 2 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
        Sometime around 3/8/10 (at 09:10 +1000) Kathy Wheeler said:

        >I hate the click-drag (grumble grumble) navigation.

        So do I. And far more than the issue of which direction to drag, I
        HATE that I can't click-drag-hold to keep turning. This is a big fat
        fly in the ointment. I REALLY hope this can be changed. >:-(

        k
      • Keith Martin
        ... Before anyone gets the wrong impression - I am *delighted* that both Pano2VR and PTGui are moving fast in the HTML5 direction. I also agree that the
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
          Sometime around 5/8/10 (at 12:03 +0100) Keith Martin said:

          >I REALLY hope this can be changed. >:-(

          Before anyone gets the wrong impression - I am *delighted* that both
          Pano2VR and PTGui are moving fast in the HTML5 direction. I also
          agree that the 'different drag direction' thing is somewhat of a
          platform-specific thing; it *does* feel different on an iPhone or
          iPad than on a mouse-driven desktop or laptop.

          My beef is really the same as with Google Street View - it forces me
          to click-drag-let go, click-drag-let go, over and over if I want to
          look all around. Whereas all other VR pano engines - including
          Pano2VR SWF output - will keep the image turning while the 'mouse' is
          down.

          I wonder whether the HTML5 behaviour is actually a fundamental part
          of the format or whether it is just an early convention that has
          started to form?

          k
        • Ian Wood
          You re aware that Thomas has written *both* types of navigation into his HTML viewer? :-) Use the new simplex skin/controller like I have on the updated PTM
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
            You're aware that Thomas has written *both* types of navigation into his HTML viewer? :-)

            Use the new simplex skin/controller like I have on the updated PTM group pano and you can swap between them.

            Ian

            (From the very nice Rock Inn on Dartmoor, surrounded by panoramic photographers...)



            On 5 Aug 2010, at 13:11, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:

            > My beef is really the same as with Google Street View - it forces me
            > to click-drag-let go, click-drag-let go, over and over if I want to
            > look all around. Whereas all other VR pano engines - including
            > Pano2VR SWF output - will keep the image turning while the 'mouse' is
            > down.
          • rj_profile2004
            Here is my first test: http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html works on iPad, and Safari on Mac, but not on Firefox (Mac) runs on iPhone 4 but best in
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
              Here is my first test:

              http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html

              works on iPad, and Safari on Mac, but not on Firefox (Mac)

              runs on iPhone 4 but best in vertical orientation. I think I have it formatted too large frankly. (1024 x 768).

              I have not tested it on my PC yet.

              But Thomas did a great job on this new software, I am sure improvements will come.

              ~ Rusty

              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ned Chiariello <panophoto@...> wrote:
              >
              > Has anyone posted a HTML5 panorama on the internet from the new Pano2VR 3.0 beta, I would like to see one.
              >
            • AYRTON
              Rusty, Works like a charm best AYRTON ... + 55 21 9982 6313 - RIO + 55 11 3717 5131 - SP http://ayrton360.com twitter.com/ayrton360 ... -- [Non-text portions
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
                Rusty,
                Works like a charm

                best
                AYRTON

                ------------
                | A Y R |
                | T O N |
                ------------
                + 55 21 9982 6313 - RIO
                + 55 11 3717 5131 - SP
                http://ayrton360.com
                twitter.com/ayrton360

                On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:55 AM, rj_profile2004 <4x9@...> wrote:

                > Here is my first test:
                >
                > http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html
                >
                > works on iPad, and Safari on Mac, but not on Firefox (Mac)
                >
                > runs on iPhone 4 but best in vertical orientation. I think I have it
                > formatted too large frankly. (1024 x 768).
                >
                > I have not tested it on my PC yet.
                >
                > But Thomas did a great job on this new software, I am sure improvements
                > will come.
                >
                > ~ Rusty
                >
                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ned Chiariello <panophoto@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Has anyone posted a HTML5 panorama on the internet from the new Pano2VR
                > 3.0 beta, I would like to see one.
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > --
                >
                >
                >
                >


                --


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Roger D. Williams
                On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:55:13 +0900, rj_profile2004 ... Hmmm. It had a very strange effect on my iPhone 3G. It flipped me over to Google
                Message 7 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
                  On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:55:13 +0900, rj_profile2004 <4x9@...>
                  wrote:

                  > Here is my first test:
                  >
                  > http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html
                  >
                  > works on iPad, and Safari on Mac, but not on Firefox (Mac)
                  >
                  > runs on iPhone 4 but best in vertical orientation. I think I have it
                  > formatted too large frankly. (1024 x 768).
                  >
                  > I have not tested it on my PC yet.
                  >
                  > But Thomas did a great job on this new software, I am sure improvements
                  > will come.

                  Hmmm. It had a very strange effect on my iPhone 3G. It flipped me over to
                  Google every time I tried to access this URL.

                  On a PC with Opera, it produced a small square image in the upper LH
                  corner.

                  On the same PC with Safari, it showed a panorama about one quarter full
                  screen size in the upper left quartile of my 22" screen, and when I
                  double clicked on it, it went to full screen. I like the ability to
                  switch instantly between the two screen display areas.

                  Promising, but not ready for prime time yet.

                  Roger W,


                  --
                  Business: www.adex-japan.com
                  Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                • Keith Martin
                  ... Nope, I haven t had a chance to use it yet - I just tried the panorama demos. [blush] I *really* hope the default behaviour is not the crude start-stop
                  Message 8 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
                    Sometime around 5/8/10 (at 14:10 +0100) Ian Wood said:

                    >You're aware that Thomas has written *both* types of navigation into
                    >his HTML viewer? :-)

                    Nope, I haven't had a chance to use it yet - I just tried the
                    panorama demos. [blush]

                    I *really* hope the default behaviour is not the crude start-stop
                    one. This is the time where that sort of convention can be
                    established. What should be considered the default and what the
                    optional choice?

                    Also, are we talking about the drag direction AND, separately, the
                    continuous-drag behaviour? I'd like to keep those concepts separate.

                    k
                  • rj_profile2004
                    http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html ... that tells me you had the URL wrong. ... yes, this is what I get on Firefox on the Mac. Very strange. ... on
                    Message 9 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
                      http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html

                      > Hmmm. It had a very strange effect on my iPhone 3G. It flipped me over to Google every time I tried to access this URL.

                      that tells me you had the URL wrong.

                      > On a PC with Opera, it produced a small square image in the upper LH
                      > corner.

                      yes, this is what I get on Firefox on the Mac. Very strange.


                      > On the same PC with Safari, it showed a panorama about one quarter full screen size in the upper left quartile of my 22" screen, and when I double clicked on it, it went to full screen. I like the ability to switch instantly between the two screen display areas.
                      >

                      on my PC, Safari gave me a weird little rotating "3D like" flat image, a small square in the middle of the screen. IE gave me a small blank box in the upper left with an even smaller X in the upper left hand corner. Firefox yielded a black screen.

                      > Promising, but not ready for prime time yet.
                      >
                      > Roger W,

                      agreed, HTML5 seems to work better for Steve Jobs than me. Perfect on the iPad, but little else.

                      ~ Rusty
                    • Eric O'Brien
                      ... Hmm... That s an interesting point. But, at least in the examples I ve seen, the difference is not as simple as having the drag directions reversed. In
                      Message 10 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
                        On Aug 5, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Keith Martin wrote:

                        > Also, are we talking about the drag direction AND, separately, the
                        > continuous-drag behaviour? I'd like to keep those concepts separate.

                        Hmm...

                        That's an interesting point. But, at least in the examples I've seen,
                        the difference is not as simple as having the drag directions reversed.

                        In the "traditional" approach, where you drag the "viewpoint/camera"
                        toward what you want to see, the mouse down position does not seem to
                        be "attached" to something in the scene. Instead, it is simply the
                        place where you "grabbed hold" of the "camera." When you drag away
                        from that point, you are "pulling" the camera's view in that
                        direction. As long as the pointer is away from the mouse down
                        location, the "pull" continues. If you drag back and forth *quickly*
                        it is possible for the view to move in a direction opposite from which
                        you are (at the moment) dragging your mouse.

                        In the "drag the background" approach, it isn't just that the drag
                        direction "is reversed": you have the impression of having "grabbed
                        hold of" some part of the image that you are viewing. (However, at
                        least with the current version of Pano2VR, the "grab" isn't *quite*
                        solid. If you note the place that you mouse down, then drag back and
                        forth and up and down a bit, you'll notice that the point in the image
                        that's under the mouse point has changed. There's a bit of "sliding"
                        going on. I wonder if this is intentional.)

                        At any rate, my POINT here is that if you mouse down and drag and the
                        viewpoint keeps moving even though you've stopped moving your mouse,
                        that is going to feel very different than if you "grab hold of part of
                        the image," drag and stop moving your finger *but the image "breaks
                        free" of your hold and keeps moving!*

                        The way I found (using an iPad for 5 minutes, mind you) to keep the
                        image moving was to gently brush my finger across the screen every few
                        moments.

                        eo

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Willy Kaemena
                        I could just complete my first HTML5 test which contains an switch to test both dragging/ spinning methods ( to switch behavior click the hand symbol)
                        Message 11 of 26 , Aug 6, 2010
                          I could just complete my first HTML5 test which contains an switch to test both dragging/ spinning methods ( to switch behavior click the hand symbol)

                          http://homepage.mac.com/wkaemena/iPad/EC/EastCoast.html

                          this panorama is made for the iPad in mind, but it is also visible on HTML5 savvy browsers on the computer. It should also work on the iPhone albeit it is a bit large ( filesize ) for it.

                          Will have to create a device sensing site in order to switch between different size versions for the different devices. Anybody could give me a helping hand for that?

                          - Mac/PC
                          - iPhone
                          - iPad


                          Willy



                          On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:50, Eric O'Brien wrote:

                          > On Aug 5, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Keith Martin wrote:
                          >
                          > > Also, are we talking about the drag direction AND, separately, the
                          > > continuous-drag behaviour? I'd like to keep those concepts separate.
                          >
                          > Hmm...
                          >
                          > That's an interesting point. But, at least in the examples I've seen,
                          > the difference is not as simple as having the drag directions reversed.
                          >
                          > In the "traditional" approach, where you drag the "viewpoint/camera"
                          > toward what you want to see, the mouse down position does not seem to
                          > be "attached" to something in the scene. Instead, it is simply the
                          > place where you "grabbed hold" of the "camera." When you drag away
                          > from that point, you are "pulling" the camera's view in that
                          > direction. As long as the pointer is away from the mouse down
                          > location, the "pull" continues. If you drag back and forth *quickly*
                          > it is possible for the view to move in a direction opposite from which
                          > you are (at the moment) dragging your mouse.
                          >
                          > In the "drag the background" approach, it isn't just that the drag
                          > direction "is reversed": you have the impression of having "grabbed
                          > hold of" some part of the image that you are viewing. (However, at
                          > least with the current version of Pano2VR, the "grab" isn't *quite*
                          > solid. If you note the place that you mouse down, then drag back and
                          > forth and up and down a bit, you'll notice that the point in the image
                          > that's under the mouse point has changed. There's a bit of "sliding"
                          > going on. I wonder if this is intentional.)
                          >
                          > At any rate, my POINT here is that if you mouse down and drag and the
                          > viewpoint keeps moving even though you've stopped moving your mouse,
                          > that is going to feel very different than if you "grab hold of part of
                          > the image," drag and stop moving your finger *but the image "breaks
                          > free" of your hold and keeps moving!*
                          >
                          > The way I found (using an iPad for 5 minutes, mind you) to keep the
                          > image moving was to gently brush my finger across the screen every few
                          > moments.
                          >
                          > eo
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Erik Krause
                          ... I guess this is because you actually change the angle with the mouse but the panorama is mapped to rectilinear. To have the position solid an additional
                          Message 12 of 26 , Aug 7, 2010
                            Am 06.08.2010 06:50, schrieb Eric O'Brien:
                            > In the "drag the background" approach, it isn't just that the drag
                            > direction "is reversed": you have the impression of having "grabbed
                            > hold of" some part of the image that you are viewing. (However, at
                            > least with the current version of Pano2VR, the "grab" isn't*quite*
                            > solid. If you note the place that you mouse down, then drag back and
                            > forth and up and down a bit, you'll notice that the point in the image
                            > that's under the mouse point has changed. There's a bit of "sliding"
                            > going on. I wonder if this is intentional.)

                            I guess this is because you actually change the angle with the mouse but
                            the panorama is mapped to rectilinear. To have the position solid an
                            additional calculation would be needed. You can see it more pronounced
                            if you zoom out...

                            --
                            Erik Krause
                            http://www.erik-krause.de
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