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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2VR 3.0 beta

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  • Kathy Wheeler
    ... Hrmmmmmm ... all I get when right-click is pop-up with Back, Reload Page, Open in Dashboard etc. Left click just drags. What am I doing wrong? KathyW. PS
    Message 1 of 26 , Aug 2, 2010
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      On 08/03/2010, at 9:15 AM, AYRTON wrote:

      > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Kathy Wheeler <kathyw@...
      > >wrote:
      >> a sort-of
      >> power-user button for us oldies to reverse the way it works back to
      >> what we're used to?
      >>
      >
      > There is !
      > just click and change the way the mouse behaves


      Hrmmmmmm ... all I get when right-click is pop-up with "Back, Reload
      Page, Open in Dashboard" etc. Left click just drags. What am I doing
      wrong?

      KathyW.

      PS I do love the double-click "full screen" (window), and it caches
      beautifully.
    • jrgen_schrader
      ... Try the hand icon in the navigation bar. ;)
      Message 2 of 26 , Aug 2, 2010
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        >What am I doing wrong?

        Try the hand icon in the navigation bar.

        ;)





        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Wheeler <kathyw@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > On 08/03/2010, at 9:15 AM, AYRTON wrote:
        >
        > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Kathy Wheeler <kathyw@...
        > > >wrote:
        > >> a sort-of
        > >> power-user button for us oldies to reverse the way it works back to
        > >> what we're used to?
        > >>
        > >
        > > There is !
        > > just click and change the way the mouse behaves
        >
        >
        > Hrmmmmmm ... all I get when right-click is pop-up with "Back, Reload
        > Page, Open in Dashboard" etc. Left click just drags. What am I doing
        > wrong?
        >
        > KathyW.
        >
        > PS I do love the double-click "full screen" (window), and it caches
        > beautifully.
        >
      • Eric O'Brien
        I don t care at all for drag move the image as opposed to drag moves the camera . I hope he offers the ability for the pano creator to choose either
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 2, 2010
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          I don't care at all for "drag move the image" as opposed to "drag
          moves the 'camera'." I hope he offers the ability for the pano
          creator to choose either approach.

          eo

          On Aug 2, 2010, at 2:30 PM, Willy Kaemena wrote:

          > Go here: http://www.ggnome.com/3
          >
          > there you will find the HTML5 tour with hotspots
          >
          > Willy
          >
          > On Aug 2, 2010, at 21:52, Ned Chiariello wrote:
          >
          > > Has anyone posted a HTML5 panorama on the internet from the new
          > Pano2VR 3.0 beta, I would like to see one.
          > >
          > ___
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Eric O'Brien
          Well, I certainly am glad to find this... so it IS possible. (The hand icon is not present in all of the samples however.) ... [Non-text portions of this
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 2, 2010
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            Well, I certainly am glad to find this... so it IS possible.

            (The "hand" icon is not present in all of the samples however.)



            On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:30 PM, jrgen_schrader wrote:

            > >What am I doing wrong?
            >
            > Try the hand icon in the navigation bar.
            >
            > ;)
            >
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Wheeler <kathyw@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > On 08/03/2010, at 9:15 AM, AYRTON wrote:
            > >
            > > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Kathy Wheeler <kathyw@...
            > > > >wrote:
            > > >> a sort-of
            > > >> power-user button for us oldies to reverse the way it works
            > back to
            > > >> what we're used to?
            > > >>
            > > >
            > > > There is !
            > > > just click and change the way the mouse behaves
            > >
            > >
            > > Hrmmmmmm ... all I get when right-click is pop-up with "Back, Reload
            > > Page, Open in Dashboard" etc. Left click just drags. What am I doing
            > > wrong?
            > >
            > > KathyW.
            > >
            > > PS I do love the double-click "full screen" (window), and it caches
            > > beautifully.
            > >
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Eric O'Brien
            Very much agree! Luckily, it does appear to be possible to switch between dragging the background and dragging the viewpoint. It s just that the hand icon
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 3, 2010
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              Very much agree!

              Luckily, it does appear to be possible to switch between dragging the
              background and dragging the viewpoint. It's just that the "hand" icon
              is not displayed on the toolbars of all the samples.

              For me, the "dragging the background" approach completely breaks the
              illusion of immersion. Instead of steering a viewpoint left/right or
              up/down to view a static external world, you are looking through a
              peephole and dragging some seamless picture past it, little bits at at
              time. Scooch, scooch, scooch... scooch, scooch.

              A big "Yuck!" from me on that. Is there a "thumbs down" smiley??


              The motion also is clunky and only as smooth as you can move your
              mouse (or finger) -- which means that the motion is NOT smooth. Also,
              with this mode any pan or tilt you perform will stop abruptly at the
              edge of the screen, or the edge of your trackpad, or when you run out
              of space sliding your mouse across your desktop.

              I think "dragging the background" also reduces the perceived quality
              of the product. To me, it looks cheaper. :(

              eo

              On Aug 2, 2010, at 5:12 PM, Ken Warner wrote:

              > No! We don't have to learn to live with it! We have to educate
              > those who are less perceptive and more gullible that moving your
              > viewpoint is more natural for an immersive vr than dragging the
              > whole world around a fixed camera.
              >
              > I'm amazed at how easily so many people are giving in so fast.
              >
              > Kathy Wheeler wrote:
              > > On 08/03/2010, at 7:30 AM, Willy Kaemena wrote:
              > >> Go here: http://www.ggnome.com/3
              > >
              > > Hey! That html5 demo is really rather nice! I wish Firefox (Opera
              > etc)
              > > would hurry up and catch up now!?!?
              > >
              > > I hate the click-drag (grumble grumble) navigation. I guess we
              > have to
              > > learn to live with it, but would it be practical to have a sort-of
              > > power-user button for us oldies to reverse the way it works back to
              > > what we're used to?
              > >
              > > KathyW.
              > >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Robert Bilsland
              Thomas included the option of click to drag a few minor revisions ago. So it is possible for the person creating the panoramic view to choose their choice of
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 3, 2010
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                Thomas included the option of click to drag a few minor revisions ago. So it is possible for the person creating the panoramic view to choose their choice of navigation and if they want to provide a button to change.

                As for what feels the most natural method to use it's all personal choice, but I've found that on touch based devices it's very natural to grab the view you can see and feel like you are physically moving it.

                Bob.


                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Eric O'Brien <ericob@...> wrote:
                >
                > Very much agree!
                >
                > Luckily, it does appear to be possible to switch between dragging the
                > background and dragging the viewpoint. It's just that the "hand" icon
                > is not displayed on the toolbars of all the samples.
                >
                > For me, the "dragging the background" approach completely breaks the
                > illusion of immersion. Instead of steering a viewpoint left/right or
                > up/down to view a static external world, you are looking through a
                > peephole and dragging some seamless picture past it, little bits at at
                > time. Scooch, scooch, scooch... scooch, scooch.
                >
                > A big "Yuck!" from me on that. Is there a "thumbs down" smiley??
                >
                >
                > The motion also is clunky and only as smooth as you can move your
                > mouse (or finger) -- which means that the motion is NOT smooth. Also,
                > with this mode any pan or tilt you perform will stop abruptly at the
                > edge of the screen, or the edge of your trackpad, or when you run out
                > of space sliding your mouse across your desktop.
                >
                > I think "dragging the background" also reduces the perceived quality
                > of the product. To me, it looks cheaper. :(
                >
                > eo
                >
                > On Aug 2, 2010, at 5:12 PM, Ken Warner wrote:
                >
                > > No! We don't have to learn to live with it! We have to educate
                > > those who are less perceptive and more gullible that moving your
                > > viewpoint is more natural for an immersive vr than dragging the
                > > whole world around a fixed camera.
                > >
                > > I'm amazed at how easily so many people are giving in so fast.
                > >
                > > Kathy Wheeler wrote:
                > > > On 08/03/2010, at 7:30 AM, Willy Kaemena wrote:
                > > >> Go here: http://www.ggnome.com/3
                > > >
                > > > Hey! That html5 demo is really rather nice! I wish Firefox (Opera
                > > etc)
                > > > would hurry up and catch up now!?!?
                > > >
                > > > I hate the click-drag (grumble grumble) navigation. I guess we
                > > have to
                > > > learn to live with it, but would it be practical to have a sort-of
                > > > power-user button for us oldies to reverse the way it works back to
                > > > what we're used to?
                > > >
                > > > KathyW.
                > > >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Christian Bloch
                ... That s true. Maybe a grab-drag style (with some more inertia) should be default for touch devices and click-spin for mouse computers. Both optional, with a
                Message 7 of 26 , Aug 3, 2010
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                  On Aug 3, 2010, at 9:36 AM, Robert Bilsland wrote:

                  > As for what feels the most natural method to use it's all personal choice, but I've found that on touch based devices it's very natural to grab the view you can see and feel like you are physically moving it.

                  That's true. Maybe a grab-drag style (with some more inertia) should be default for touch devices and click-spin for mouse computers. Both optional, with a switcher button...

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Keith Martin
                  ... So do I. And far more than the issue of which direction to drag, I HATE that I can t click-drag-hold to keep turning. This is a big fat fly in the
                  Message 8 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
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                    Sometime around 3/8/10 (at 09:10 +1000) Kathy Wheeler said:

                    >I hate the click-drag (grumble grumble) navigation.

                    So do I. And far more than the issue of which direction to drag, I
                    HATE that I can't click-drag-hold to keep turning. This is a big fat
                    fly in the ointment. I REALLY hope this can be changed. >:-(

                    k
                  • Keith Martin
                    ... Before anyone gets the wrong impression - I am *delighted* that both Pano2VR and PTGui are moving fast in the HTML5 direction. I also agree that the
                    Message 9 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
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                      Sometime around 5/8/10 (at 12:03 +0100) Keith Martin said:

                      >I REALLY hope this can be changed. >:-(

                      Before anyone gets the wrong impression - I am *delighted* that both
                      Pano2VR and PTGui are moving fast in the HTML5 direction. I also
                      agree that the 'different drag direction' thing is somewhat of a
                      platform-specific thing; it *does* feel different on an iPhone or
                      iPad than on a mouse-driven desktop or laptop.

                      My beef is really the same as with Google Street View - it forces me
                      to click-drag-let go, click-drag-let go, over and over if I want to
                      look all around. Whereas all other VR pano engines - including
                      Pano2VR SWF output - will keep the image turning while the 'mouse' is
                      down.

                      I wonder whether the HTML5 behaviour is actually a fundamental part
                      of the format or whether it is just an early convention that has
                      started to form?

                      k
                    • Ian Wood
                      You re aware that Thomas has written *both* types of navigation into his HTML viewer? :-) Use the new simplex skin/controller like I have on the updated PTM
                      Message 10 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
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                        You're aware that Thomas has written *both* types of navigation into his HTML viewer? :-)

                        Use the new simplex skin/controller like I have on the updated PTM group pano and you can swap between them.

                        Ian

                        (From the very nice Rock Inn on Dartmoor, surrounded by panoramic photographers...)



                        On 5 Aug 2010, at 13:11, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:

                        > My beef is really the same as with Google Street View - it forces me
                        > to click-drag-let go, click-drag-let go, over and over if I want to
                        > look all around. Whereas all other VR pano engines - including
                        > Pano2VR SWF output - will keep the image turning while the 'mouse' is
                        > down.
                      • rj_profile2004
                        Here is my first test: http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html works on iPad, and Safari on Mac, but not on Firefox (Mac) runs on iPhone 4 but best in
                        Message 11 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
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                          Here is my first test:

                          http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html

                          works on iPad, and Safari on Mac, but not on Firefox (Mac)

                          runs on iPhone 4 but best in vertical orientation. I think I have it formatted too large frankly. (1024 x 768).

                          I have not tested it on my PC yet.

                          But Thomas did a great job on this new software, I am sure improvements will come.

                          ~ Rusty

                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ned Chiariello <panophoto@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Has anyone posted a HTML5 panorama on the internet from the new Pano2VR 3.0 beta, I would like to see one.
                          >
                        • AYRTON
                          Rusty, Works like a charm best AYRTON ... + 55 21 9982 6313 - RIO + 55 11 3717 5131 - SP http://ayrton360.com twitter.com/ayrton360 ... -- [Non-text portions
                          Message 12 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
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                            Rusty,
                            Works like a charm

                            best
                            AYRTON

                            ------------
                            | A Y R |
                            | T O N |
                            ------------
                            + 55 21 9982 6313 - RIO
                            + 55 11 3717 5131 - SP
                            http://ayrton360.com
                            twitter.com/ayrton360

                            On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:55 AM, rj_profile2004 <4x9@...> wrote:

                            > Here is my first test:
                            >
                            > http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html
                            >
                            > works on iPad, and Safari on Mac, but not on Firefox (Mac)
                            >
                            > runs on iPhone 4 but best in vertical orientation. I think I have it
                            > formatted too large frankly. (1024 x 768).
                            >
                            > I have not tested it on my PC yet.
                            >
                            > But Thomas did a great job on this new software, I am sure improvements
                            > will come.
                            >
                            > ~ Rusty
                            >
                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ned Chiariello <panophoto@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Has anyone posted a HTML5 panorama on the internet from the new Pano2VR
                            > 3.0 beta, I would like to see one.
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > --
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            --


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Roger D. Williams
                            On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:55:13 +0900, rj_profile2004 ... Hmmm. It had a very strange effect on my iPhone 3G. It flipped me over to Google
                            Message 13 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
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                              On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:55:13 +0900, rj_profile2004 <4x9@...>
                              wrote:

                              > Here is my first test:
                              >
                              > http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html
                              >
                              > works on iPad, and Safari on Mac, but not on Firefox (Mac)
                              >
                              > runs on iPhone 4 but best in vertical orientation. I think I have it
                              > formatted too large frankly. (1024 x 768).
                              >
                              > I have not tested it on my PC yet.
                              >
                              > But Thomas did a great job on this new software, I am sure improvements
                              > will come.

                              Hmmm. It had a very strange effect on my iPhone 3G. It flipped me over to
                              Google every time I tried to access this URL.

                              On a PC with Opera, it produced a small square image in the upper LH
                              corner.

                              On the same PC with Safari, it showed a panorama about one quarter full
                              screen size in the upper left quartile of my 22" screen, and when I
                              double clicked on it, it went to full screen. I like the ability to
                              switch instantly between the two screen display areas.

                              Promising, but not ready for prime time yet.

                              Roger W,


                              --
                              Business: www.adex-japan.com
                              Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                            • Keith Martin
                              ... Nope, I haven t had a chance to use it yet - I just tried the panorama demos. [blush] I *really* hope the default behaviour is not the crude start-stop
                              Message 14 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
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                                Sometime around 5/8/10 (at 14:10 +0100) Ian Wood said:

                                >You're aware that Thomas has written *both* types of navigation into
                                >his HTML viewer? :-)

                                Nope, I haven't had a chance to use it yet - I just tried the
                                panorama demos. [blush]

                                I *really* hope the default behaviour is not the crude start-stop
                                one. This is the time where that sort of convention can be
                                established. What should be considered the default and what the
                                optional choice?

                                Also, are we talking about the drag direction AND, separately, the
                                continuous-drag behaviour? I'd like to keep those concepts separate.

                                k
                              • rj_profile2004
                                http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html ... that tells me you had the URL wrong. ... yes, this is what I get on Firefox on the Mac. Very strange. ... on
                                Message 15 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
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                                  http://terra360.com/temp/racetrack_html5.html

                                  > Hmmm. It had a very strange effect on my iPhone 3G. It flipped me over to Google every time I tried to access this URL.

                                  that tells me you had the URL wrong.

                                  > On a PC with Opera, it produced a small square image in the upper LH
                                  > corner.

                                  yes, this is what I get on Firefox on the Mac. Very strange.


                                  > On the same PC with Safari, it showed a panorama about one quarter full screen size in the upper left quartile of my 22" screen, and when I double clicked on it, it went to full screen. I like the ability to switch instantly between the two screen display areas.
                                  >

                                  on my PC, Safari gave me a weird little rotating "3D like" flat image, a small square in the middle of the screen. IE gave me a small blank box in the upper left with an even smaller X in the upper left hand corner. Firefox yielded a black screen.

                                  > Promising, but not ready for prime time yet.
                                  >
                                  > Roger W,

                                  agreed, HTML5 seems to work better for Steve Jobs than me. Perfect on the iPad, but little else.

                                  ~ Rusty
                                • Eric O'Brien
                                  ... Hmm... That s an interesting point. But, at least in the examples I ve seen, the difference is not as simple as having the drag directions reversed. In
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Aug 5, 2010
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                                    On Aug 5, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Keith Martin wrote:

                                    > Also, are we talking about the drag direction AND, separately, the
                                    > continuous-drag behaviour? I'd like to keep those concepts separate.

                                    Hmm...

                                    That's an interesting point. But, at least in the examples I've seen,
                                    the difference is not as simple as having the drag directions reversed.

                                    In the "traditional" approach, where you drag the "viewpoint/camera"
                                    toward what you want to see, the mouse down position does not seem to
                                    be "attached" to something in the scene. Instead, it is simply the
                                    place where you "grabbed hold" of the "camera." When you drag away
                                    from that point, you are "pulling" the camera's view in that
                                    direction. As long as the pointer is away from the mouse down
                                    location, the "pull" continues. If you drag back and forth *quickly*
                                    it is possible for the view to move in a direction opposite from which
                                    you are (at the moment) dragging your mouse.

                                    In the "drag the background" approach, it isn't just that the drag
                                    direction "is reversed": you have the impression of having "grabbed
                                    hold of" some part of the image that you are viewing. (However, at
                                    least with the current version of Pano2VR, the "grab" isn't *quite*
                                    solid. If you note the place that you mouse down, then drag back and
                                    forth and up and down a bit, you'll notice that the point in the image
                                    that's under the mouse point has changed. There's a bit of "sliding"
                                    going on. I wonder if this is intentional.)

                                    At any rate, my POINT here is that if you mouse down and drag and the
                                    viewpoint keeps moving even though you've stopped moving your mouse,
                                    that is going to feel very different than if you "grab hold of part of
                                    the image," drag and stop moving your finger *but the image "breaks
                                    free" of your hold and keeps moving!*

                                    The way I found (using an iPad for 5 minutes, mind you) to keep the
                                    image moving was to gently brush my finger across the screen every few
                                    moments.

                                    eo

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Willy Kaemena
                                    I could just complete my first HTML5 test which contains an switch to test both dragging/ spinning methods ( to switch behavior click the hand symbol)
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Aug 6, 2010
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                                      I could just complete my first HTML5 test which contains an switch to test both dragging/ spinning methods ( to switch behavior click the hand symbol)

                                      http://homepage.mac.com/wkaemena/iPad/EC/EastCoast.html

                                      this panorama is made for the iPad in mind, but it is also visible on HTML5 savvy browsers on the computer. It should also work on the iPhone albeit it is a bit large ( filesize ) for it.

                                      Will have to create a device sensing site in order to switch between different size versions for the different devices. Anybody could give me a helping hand for that?

                                      - Mac/PC
                                      - iPhone
                                      - iPad


                                      Willy



                                      On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:50, Eric O'Brien wrote:

                                      > On Aug 5, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Keith Martin wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Also, are we talking about the drag direction AND, separately, the
                                      > > continuous-drag behaviour? I'd like to keep those concepts separate.
                                      >
                                      > Hmm...
                                      >
                                      > That's an interesting point. But, at least in the examples I've seen,
                                      > the difference is not as simple as having the drag directions reversed.
                                      >
                                      > In the "traditional" approach, where you drag the "viewpoint/camera"
                                      > toward what you want to see, the mouse down position does not seem to
                                      > be "attached" to something in the scene. Instead, it is simply the
                                      > place where you "grabbed hold" of the "camera." When you drag away
                                      > from that point, you are "pulling" the camera's view in that
                                      > direction. As long as the pointer is away from the mouse down
                                      > location, the "pull" continues. If you drag back and forth *quickly*
                                      > it is possible for the view to move in a direction opposite from which
                                      > you are (at the moment) dragging your mouse.
                                      >
                                      > In the "drag the background" approach, it isn't just that the drag
                                      > direction "is reversed": you have the impression of having "grabbed
                                      > hold of" some part of the image that you are viewing. (However, at
                                      > least with the current version of Pano2VR, the "grab" isn't *quite*
                                      > solid. If you note the place that you mouse down, then drag back and
                                      > forth and up and down a bit, you'll notice that the point in the image
                                      > that's under the mouse point has changed. There's a bit of "sliding"
                                      > going on. I wonder if this is intentional.)
                                      >
                                      > At any rate, my POINT here is that if you mouse down and drag and the
                                      > viewpoint keeps moving even though you've stopped moving your mouse,
                                      > that is going to feel very different than if you "grab hold of part of
                                      > the image," drag and stop moving your finger *but the image "breaks
                                      > free" of your hold and keeps moving!*
                                      >
                                      > The way I found (using an iPad for 5 minutes, mind you) to keep the
                                      > image moving was to gently brush my finger across the screen every few
                                      > moments.
                                      >
                                      > eo
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Erik Krause
                                      ... I guess this is because you actually change the angle with the mouse but the panorama is mapped to rectilinear. To have the position solid an additional
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Aug 7, 2010
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                                        Am 06.08.2010 06:50, schrieb Eric O'Brien:
                                        > In the "drag the background" approach, it isn't just that the drag
                                        > direction "is reversed": you have the impression of having "grabbed
                                        > hold of" some part of the image that you are viewing. (However, at
                                        > least with the current version of Pano2VR, the "grab" isn't*quite*
                                        > solid. If you note the place that you mouse down, then drag back and
                                        > forth and up and down a bit, you'll notice that the point in the image
                                        > that's under the mouse point has changed. There's a bit of "sliding"
                                        > going on. I wonder if this is intentional.)

                                        I guess this is because you actually change the angle with the mouse but
                                        the panorama is mapped to rectilinear. To have the position solid an
                                        additional calculation would be needed. You can see it more pronounced
                                        if you zoom out...

                                        --
                                        Erik Krause
                                        http://www.erik-krause.de
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