Re: OT-In a pricing quandry. Hourly rate would be too high.
- This is a job that has already had me on my knees, hence my concern over making sure that all my ducks are in a row. I recognize that my business end needs some work and that is why I ask the experts.
If you will recall, these are the same folks that I tried and failed to get a contract signed on the first time. I am painfully aware of my mistakes. As comforting as the help of an attorney would be, I can't afford it.
The use of my photo in the magazine with the omission of the photographer's credit might very well have been an accident. The client that I did the photography for is my oldest client. The ad agency is a local agency and I know some of the people that work there. I handled that one with a verbal agreement-obviously a mistake. Perhaps it can be rectified, perhaps not.
The contract that I have gotten together for the work done that I referenced in the original post has all the obvious parts in place. I have included all the details that we discussed, outlined what is expected of me and of them, and laid out the payment and delivery schedules.
What had me concerned were those parts that I might not know about-perhaps something specific to virtual tours. Heck, I don't know what I might not know. That is why we have a group and that is why I asked.
--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
> Hey Bernhard,
> That's work most of the time for many or most projects.. the thing that most people don't realize is that a contract is actually an agreement between two parties.. So it's really not a cover your ass document however for many that's all it is.. I also know of many situations where a photographer screwed a client. Truth is most small projects you should be able to do out of your head and a hand shake. But in function a contract often contains some time line, milestones and dates and payment requiremenst.. So your customer wants his project on x date but for you to complete it your customer has to provide you something by a date.. what if he's 3 weeks late and you've only got 1 week to do 3 weeks worth of work.. or what if you deliver a project past when the customer can use it.. As far as attornies go.. or legal jargon.. I'm not a fan of either.... many people know how to make things work...sounds like you do.. but everyone doesn't have your negotion skills or people skills.. In the end the individual has to accept responsibility for their own short falls.. and hopefully they are smart enough to see them.. If all we did were 200.00 projects it's not a big deal when one falls off the table. Larger projects and we do a few of those here typically require Milestone progress payments or a % payment at the start of a project and time line constraints for both me and the client.. The truth is I'm not in a position to swallow a 20/40k job .. it would have me on my knees or put me out of business. We are a small but good outfit here..
> Anyway, we do know that needakeeper.. isn't you nor me.. but he does know he's sort of in trouble in an area... the fact is he can't be you nor me so in all fairness to him he's gotta sort out his own short comings if he feels their are any and create a space that works for him.. I doubt very much that it would or should be what I do.. What would be cool however is if he took all the input and then looked in a mirror and sorted out what portions of it he could handle... then got help for the rest from where ever he needed to get it (including an attorny if necessary)...Then maybe he could concentrate on what he should be thinking about...... making images....:-)))
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bernhard Vogl
> To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 4:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: OT-In a pricing quandry. Hourly rate would be too high.
> Just my 2cent:
> The most important thing is, to actually have a contract (sorry to open
> that wound again). Just write down what you deliver and what what you
> get in return. These few lines will cover 99.9% of all possible
> situations, doesn't need a lawyer to set up and is easier to enforce
> than 10 pages of bla bla that can be interpreted in 10 different ways.
> Best regards
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- ASMP's forms and paperwork examples have always been good. ASMP has
long been one of the leading organizations in the world protecting and
promoting the interests of professional photographers whose work is
for publication. While some may feel their sample terms and
conditions are overkill, they are all derived from real life
experiences of professional photographers and intended to help other
photographers protect themselves from as many unfortunate business
experiences as possible.
I should remind you also that there is an entire section (five
chapters) of my new Virtual Reality Photography book devoted to
business concerns for VR photographers. You can see more about this at:
Additionally, there is quite a bit of free business practices
information on the Virtual Reality Photography web site. For a case
study showing how three leading VR photographers (also all ASMP
members at the time) estimated the same project, including all their
respective terms and conditions, go to:
Even if the figures and rates don't seem appropriate to your
particular market or business, look carefully at the kinds of terms
and conditions that each photographer uses on their Estimates. These
may help guide you in better crafting your own.
Other useful business information from the vrphotography.com web site
can be found at:
Author, Virtual Reality Photography