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3D - anaglyph color issue

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  • Wim Koornneef
    Hello Group, A few days ago I shot 36 images with a one camera 3D system to find out how a 3D pano looks at a close distance to the ground. Both the 3D depth
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 27, 2010
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      Hello Group,

      A few days ago I shot 36 images with a one camera 3D system to find out how
      a 3D pano looks at a close distance to the ground.
      Both the 3D depth and the sharpness from close by to infinity are fine so in
      this aspect the test was successful but because I encountered a nasty red
      color interference issue of the red-cyan anaglyph system I also output the
      same pano in red-cyan half-color, red-cyan Dubois and amber-blue for
      ColorCode 3D for a quick comparison.

      Here are the 4 panos (you can also use the arrows or the number links below
      the pano to navigate):

      red-cyan color:
      http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/anaglyph_types_25042010/image_001.html

      red-cyan half color:
      http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/anaglyph_types_25042010/image_002.html

      red-cyan dubois:
      http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/anaglyph_types_25042010/image_003.html

      amber-blue colorcode3d:
      http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/anaglyph_types_25042010/image_004.html

      Here is a picture of the 3D system in action:
      http://www.dmmdh.nl/zoomify/3D_1cam_system_25042010/image_001.html

      With shutter glasses or polarized 3D viewers there are no colors issues at
      all so expect that in time, when 3D TV's and monitors are common, this
      problem will be sorted out by itself.

      Apart from the color issue the test pano is clearly showing the weak point
      of any 3D spherical pano, the zenith and nadir area.
      When there are a lot of details in zenith or nadir then it is best to use a
      large nadir cap or to limit the view of the player to -70 degree to prevent
      a bad 3D experience.
      It also helps a bit to set the zero parallax point of the left and right
      images as close as possible to the 3D setup, in this case I set it to a
      flower at approx. 20 cm from the support base.

      I hope you like the test and that it is of any use for you.

      Wim

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    • Roger D. Williams
      On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 18:32:36 +0900, Wim Koornneef wrote: Hello Wim. ... Yes, at first it looked as if you had raised one of those oh,
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 27, 2010
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        On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 18:32:36 +0900, Wim Koornneef
        <wim.koornneef@...> wrote:

        Hello Wim.

        > A few days ago I shot 36 images with a one camera 3D system to find out
        > how
        > a 3D pano looks at a close distance to the ground.
        > Both the 3D depth and the sharpness from close by to infinity are fine
        > so in
        > this aspect the test was successful but because I encountered a nasty red
        > color interference issue of the red-cyan anaglyph system I also output
        > the
        > same pano in red-cyan half-color, red-cyan Dubois and amber-blue for
        > ColorCode 3D for a quick comparison.

        Yes, at first it looked as if you had raised one of those oh, so rare,
        black
        tulips! The Dubois version made them look green. Only the amber-blue
        glasses
        gave good reds. I really like the amber-blue anaglyphs, but they are still
        all too rarely encountered...

        Roger

        --
        Business: www.adex-japan.com
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      • Wim Koornneef
        Here is the same 3D pano with a 2D nadir, it makes clear why you can t edit a 3D pano with a nadir patch and it also shows the extra dimension of depth.
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 27, 2010
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          Here is the same 3D pano with a 2D nadir, it makes clear why you can't edit a
          3D pano with a nadir patch and it also shows the extra dimension of depth.

          http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/anaglyph_types_25042010/3d+2d.html

          Wim
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          View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/3D-anaglyph-color-issue-tp2067280p2067436.html
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        • Wim Koornneef
          Yesterday I shot a 3D pano of a field with bright colored red tulips with a one camera 3D system, NPP off set approx. 35mm forward shift. There is no way that
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 29, 2010
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            Yesterday I shot a 3D pano of a field with bright colored red tulips with a
            one camera 3D system, NPP off set approx. 35mm forward shift.

            There is no way that the red color of the tulips can be showed with the
            red-cyan anaglyph system so for this pano the amber-blue system of
            Colorcode-3D is better suited.
            For bright primary colors ColorCode-3D Editor can also process the colors
            with a special encoding option to get a better 3D experience.

            red-cyan, half color, the colors are definitely not true:
            http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/3D_tulips_28042010/halfcolor.html

            amber-blue colorcode-3d, normal encoding, the colors are true:
            http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/3D_tulips_28042010/cc3d_normal.html

            amber-blue colorcode-3d, special encoding, the colors are almost true:
            http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/3D_tulips_28042010/cc3d_special.html

            Enjoy the view of Dutch tulips in 3D
            Wim
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          • Roger D. Williams
            On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:42:46 +0900, Wim Koornneef ... I would like to get the details of the workflow for this from you, Wim. ... I certainly did! It is always
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 29, 2010
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              On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:42:46 +0900, Wim Koornneef
              <wim.koornneef@...> wrote:

              > Yesterday I shot a 3D pano of a field with bright colored red tulips
              > with a
              > one camera 3D system, NPP off set approx. 35mm forward shift.

              I would like to get the details of the workflow for this from you, Wim.

              > There is no way that the red color of the tulips can be showed with the
              > red-cyan anaglyph system so for this pano the amber-blue system of
              > Colorcode-3D is better suited.
              > For bright primary colors ColorCode-3D Editor can also process the colors
              > with a special encoding option to get a better 3D experience.
              >
              > red-cyan, half color, the colors are definitely not true:
              > http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/3D_tulips_28042010/halfcolor.html
              >
              > amber-blue colorcode-3d, normal encoding, the colors are true:
              > http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/3D_tulips_28042010/cc3d_normal.html
              >
              > amber-blue colorcode-3d, special encoding, the colors are almost true:
              > http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/3D_tulips_28042010/cc3d_special.html
              >
              > Enjoy the view of Dutch tulips in 3D

              I certainly did!

              It is always astonishing to me how what is visible through the right eye
              (dim, fuzzy, muddy colours, almost no clear details) can be combined
              with what is visible through the left eye to create a stereo impression.

              Roger W.

              --
              Business: www.adex-japan.com
              Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
            • Wim Koornneef
              ... Hello Roger, This is what I did: I shot 36 images on a precise rotator and I leveled the setup as best as I could. In PTGui I use a lens calibrated
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 29, 2010
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                Roger D. Williams wrote:
                > ......I would like to get the details of the workflow for this from you,
                > Wim......

                Hello Roger,

                This is what I did:
                I shot 36 images on a precise rotator and I leveled the setup as best as I
                could.

                In PTGui I use a lens calibrated template for a start. I use the automatic
                CP generator to set CP's between all images. I optimize all 36 images with a
                fixed yaw increment, (0-10-20 etc) I linke the roll and pitch of all images
                and then I optimize with disabled lens shift and disabled pitch params. I
                optimize in a few steps and after each step I remove CP's until all CP's are
                below 8-10 px. Then I enable only the lens shift and the pitch params and
                optimize. Again I remove CP's and then I set back the lens shift params and
                the pitch to the start values of the lens calibrated template.
                This is necessary because there is a tendency that the optimizer is setting
                the lens shift and pitch params to wrong and very high values. By resetting
                the lens shift and pitch values to the values of the lens calibrated
                template, and then optimizing and removing CP's a few times more the values
                of the lens params and the pitch are getting normal.
                In the last optimizing stage I disable the lens shift and pitch params and
                do a final optimizing with the other params.

                I save the template as my base template, I need it later for the left and
                right pano and then I continue with the template.

                Then I set the yaw of all images to zero degrees so all images are stacked
                on top of each other.
                With the hidden markers/sliders in the Panorama Editor window I crop the
                output to a part of approx. 400 pixels in the left halve of the equi (I use
                the grid in the Editor window for this) and after setting the yellow crop
                lines I check the width of the crop in the create Panorama tab.
                For this I have to reset the original height of the pano to get the width of
                the cropped pano, if the crop is OK then I set the output to individual
                images, save the template ("left_strips" or "right_strips") and then I
                repeat the cropping for the other pano. It is important to making sure that
                the width and the position of the other crop (taken from the other halve of
                the equi) is the same.
                I then save the template ("left_strips" or "right_strips").

                The output of both templates is a bunch of strips of approx. 400 px width,
                36 for the left and 36 for the right pano.
                I put the strips in 2 folders and in one I put a copy of the base template.

                In the copy of the base template I change the lens params from fisheye to
                equirectangular, I set for the width (in degrees, not pixels) the calculated
                value from the strips (value=width of strip in px / largest size of equi in
                px * 360), I set all abcde lens and all pitch and roll values to zero and
                then I blend the strips together to a pano.
                I copy the template to the other folder with strips and because all params
                and settings are the same for both panos and can output the other pano
                without modifying the template.

                Optimizing the 3D panos in PTGui is the hardest part of the creation of 3D
                panos and the only way to learn it and to get it in your fingers is to make
                your own mistakes and to do it over and over again.....

                The lefty and right panos has to be combined to make anaglyphs of them.
                With the apps StereoPhotoMaker (SPM) and ColorCode-3D Editor I create the
                anaglyphs.
                I am sure you can find out how to use those apps (it is also explained in
                the tutorial I posted about the creation of a 3D pano with a singe camera on
                the NodalNinja how to use SPM) and how you can avoid anaglyph ghosting with
                the 3 step Ghostbuster method I recently published.

                Success,
                Wim

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                View this message in context: http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/3D-anaglyph-color-issue-tp2067280p2075341.html
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              • Roger D. Williams
                On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:56:21 +0900, Wim Koornneef ... Thank you for this full and very helpful reply, Wim. It all looks very complicated but I will have to try
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 29, 2010
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                  On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:56:21 +0900, Wim Koornneef
                  <wim.koornneef@...> wrote:

                  > Roger D. Williams wrote:
                  >> ......I would like to get the details of the workflow for this from you,
                  >> Wim......

                  Thank you for this full and very helpful reply, Wim. It all looks very
                  complicated but I will have to try it. We are experiencing the high
                  winds that usher in the spring in Japan, so I will wait until a lull
                  so that things waving in the wind do not complicate things.

                  Roger W.


                  > This is what I did:
                  > I shot 36 images on a precise rotator and I leveled the setup as best as
                  > I could.

                  -----------------------lots of good things deleted------------------

                  --
                  Business: www.adex-japan.com
                  Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
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