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concentric mosaics

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  • Matti Koskinen
    hi, I ve coded a simple demo of panoramas using concentric mosaics. My code isn t yet ready to show publicly, but it shows that I understood correctly the
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 11 11:32 AM
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      hi,

      I've coded a simple demo of panoramas using concentric mosaics. My code
      isn't yet ready to show publicly, but it shows that I understood
      correctly the idea. There's a neat demo in downloads.microsoft.com ,look
      for rbc. The idea is to capture a mosaic by rotating the camera attached
      to to a pole. This enables, that when the concentric mosaics are
      created, there can be movement in X and Z directions, besides rotation,
      and you view the captured objects from different angles..

      There are lots of papers of concentric mosaics, but I'd like to know, if
      a method described publicly, can be patented? I've found some patents
      concerning how the data is handled etc.., but not specifically the metod
      itself.

      BTW. the concentric mosaics idea can be used to create stereopanoramas,
      as a matter of fact, an anaglyph panorama taken with a webcam, looks
      much better in stereo, than it looks viewed via CM. I have now attached
      a webcam on a pole connected to a stepper motor, which has 200
      steps/rev, so to create a panorama, I interpolate more slits. The best
      thing would be to find a decent gearbox with say 10:1 ratio. There's
      been discussion about Mindstorms, could it be possible to make a gearbox
      out of them?

      thanks

      -matti


      sorry, I posted this to panotools-list, and got an approval of this
      list, so here it goes again.

      same
    • Erik Krause
      Hi, matti! Welcome! ... The demo is actually on http://research.microsoft.com/research/pubs/view.aspx?pubid=867 (at least I think you mean this one). Very
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 11 1:21 PM
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        Hi, matti!

        Welcome!

        Am Tuesday, July 11, 2006 um 21:32 schrieb Matti Koskinen:

        > There's a neat demo in downloads.microsoft.com ,look
        > for rbc.

        The demo is actually on
        http://research.microsoft.com/research/pubs/view.aspx?pubid=867
        (at least I think you mean this one).

        Very interesting stuff!

        best regards
        --
        Erik Krause
        Offenburger Str. 33
        79108 Freiburg
      • Thomas Rauscher
        Hello Matti, on Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 20:32:31 you wrote: MK I ve coded a simple demo of panoramas using concentric mosaics. My code MK isn t yet ready to
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 11 1:40 PM
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          Hello Matti,

          on Tuesday, July 11, 2006, 20:32:31 you wrote:

          MK> I've coded a simple demo of panoramas using concentric mosaics. My code
          MK> isn't yet ready to show publicly, but it shows that I understood
          MK> correctly the idea....

          Wow, the paper is a very interesting read! What are your plans for the
          program/sourcecode? I guess since you are in Europe you don't have to
          fear any patent problems even if there are patents, because SW patents
          are not (yet) allowed. The described algorithm is plain mathematics so
          you could have come up with the same formulas by yourself... But I am
          not a lawyer.

          MK> The best thing would be to find a decent gearbox with say 10:1
          MK> ratio. There's been discussion about Mindstorms, could it be
          MK> possible to make a gearbox out of them?

          Yes with some extra Lego parts, but I guess something like
          http://nanotec.com/page_getriebe_stirnrad_en.html will do a better
          job.

          MfG,
          Thomas.
        • Matti Koskinen
          ... I ve written mainly open source software for linux, and as my program uses open source OpenCV, which works both in windows and linux, the best thing is to
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 11 10:31 PM
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            Thomas Rauscher kirjoitti:
            > Hello Matti,
            >
            >
            > Wow, the paper is a very interesting read! What are your plans for the
            > program/sourcecode? I guess since you are in Europe you don't have to
            > fear any patent problems even if there are patents, because SW patents
            > are not (yet) allowed. The described algorithm is plain mathematics so
            > you could have come up with the same formulas by yourself... But I am
            > not a lawyer.
            >
            >
            I've written mainly open source software for linux, and as my program
            uses open source OpenCV, which works both in windows and linux, the best
            thing is to put my code open source.


            > MK> The best thing would be to find a decent gearbox with say 10:1
            > MK> ratio. There's been discussion about Mindstorms, could it be
            > MK> possible to make a gearbox out of them?
            >
            > Yes with some extra Lego parts, but I guess something like
            > http://nanotec.com/page_getriebe_stirnrad_en.html will do a better
            > job.
            >
            >
            Thanks for the link, if I find a suitable motor, I just might order it.
            > MfG,
            > Thomas.
            >
            >
            >
            Thanks,

            -matti

            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • alexandre
            Hello Matti, I must say, this new way to display panorama and create them is really interesting. The demo from microsoft research lab gives a good impression
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 12 12:27 AM
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              Hello Matti,

              I must say, this new way to display panorama and create them is really
              interesting. The demo from microsoft research lab gives a good
              impression of what can be done with such a technology. If you think
              about it for the future, let's just have a java class to display them,
              we could remplace any online viewer with this one and you'll have the
              possibility to move around in the panorama.

              The drawback of this method is that it's only a "codec" technic
              working like a multichannel panorama. All the hard work is done in
              fact at shooting time. I'm wondering if the process here can deal with
              a small number of photos (let's say 8 pictures on pole for a 360°).
              Interterpolation between them is needed and I don't see any simple
              method to do that.

              Realviz showed another tools some time ago called VTour which try to
              do the same. It uses a standard spherical panorama as input, and does
              the projection of pixels to a 3D scene you've build around the
              panorama. So you'll get a full 3d scene with reprojected texture on
              wall, floor, etc. When displaying the panorama, you also have the
              ability to move around near the center of the panorama. You can go
              far, but texture goes ugly really soon.

              Alexandre
            • Matti Koskinen
              Hi Alexandre ... The problem with this is that the files are quite big. There s been vector quantisation to reduce the size or other methods as well..
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 12 2:11 AM
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                Hi Alexandre

                alexandre kirjoitti:
                > Hello Matti,
                >
                > I must say, this new way to display panorama and create them is really
                > interesting. The demo from microsoft research lab gives a good
                > impression of what can be done with such a technology. If you think
                > about it for the future, let's just have a java class to display them,
                > we could remplace any online viewer with this one and you'll have the
                > possibility to move around in the panorama.
                >
                The problem with this is that the files are quite big. There's been
                vector quantisation to reduce the size or other methods as well..
                Depending how many concentric mosaics are used, the image size can be up
                to 150 megs uncompressed using 320x240 basic image resolution.
                >
                > The drawback of this method is that it's only a "codec" technic
                > working like a multichannel panorama. All the hard work is done in
                > fact at shooting time. I'm wondering if the process here can deal with
                > a small number of photos (let's say 8 pictures on pole for a 360°).
                > Interterpolation between them is needed and I don't see any simple
                > method to do that.
                >
                I don't think it's possible. The main idea is to capture only a slit and
                the 3d information is in the other slits. But I have an idea...
                There is a paper of handheld video camera for cm, but it's getting
                quite complicated. The structure from motion must be calculated to do
                all the corrections and the images are interpolated to ensure even movement.
                >
                > Realviz showed another tools some time ago called VTour which try to
                > do the same. It uses a standard spherical panorama as input, and does
                > the projection of pixels to a 3D scene you've build around the
                > panorama. So you'll get a full 3d scene with reprojected texture on
                > wall, floor, etc. When displaying the panorama, you also have the
                > ability to move around near the center of the panorama. You can go
                > far, but texture goes ugly really soon.
                >
                > Alexandre
                >
                >
                best
                -matti

                >
                >
              • Thomas Rauscher
                Hello Matti, ... MK I ve written mainly open source software for linux, and as my program MK uses open source OpenCV, which works both in windows and linux,
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 12 2:56 AM
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                  Hello Matti,

                  on Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 07:31:49 you wrote:

                  >> Wow, the paper is a very interesting read! What are your plans for the
                  >> program/sourcecode? I guess since you are in Europe you don't have to
                  >> fear any patent problems even if there are patents, because SW patents
                  >> are not (yet) allowed. The described algorithm is plain mathematics so
                  >> you could have come up with the same formulas by yourself... But I am
                  >> not a lawyer.

                  MK> I've written mainly open source software for linux, and as my program
                  MK> uses open source OpenCV, which works both in windows and linux, the best
                  MK> thing is to put my code open source.

                  May I ask why you choose OpenCV? I found this very unstable and buggy
                  when I used it for some tests.

                  MfG,
                  Thomas.
                • Matti Koskinen
                  ... I ve found it stable :-) I ve had only one error in cvSVD in linux, it crashed occasionally, But otherwise I ve had no problems with it. And my great idea
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 12 3:31 AM
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                    Thomas Rauscher kirjoitti:
                    > May I ask why you choose OpenCV? I found this very unstable and buggy
                    > when I used it for some tests.
                    >
                    > MfG,
                    > Thomas.
                    >
                    I've found it stable :-) I've had only one error in cvSVD in linux, it
                    crashed occasionally, But otherwise I've had no problems with it. And my
                    great idea of using view morphing to interpolate is readily available
                    in opencv. Only the number of pictures taken must still be quite high to
                    create good view morphing, Alexandre's hope to take only 8, doesn't work
                    at all. (or maybe the view morphing algorithm in opencv is buggy! :-)

                    best
                    -matti

                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Thomas Rauscher
                    Hello Matti, on Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 12:31:00 you wrote: ... MK I ve found it stable :-) I ve had only one error in cvSVD in linux, it MK crashed
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 12 11:13 AM
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                      Hello Matti,

                      on Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 12:31:00 you wrote:

                      MK> Thomas Rauscher kirjoitti:
                      >> May I ask why you choose OpenCV? I found this very unstable and buggy
                      >> when I used it for some tests.
                      MK> I've found it stable :-) I've had only one error in cvSVD in linux, it
                      MK> crashed occasionally, But otherwise I've had no problems with it. And my
                      MK> great idea of using view morphing to interpolate is readily available
                      MK> in opencv. Only the number of pictures taken must still be quite high to
                      MK> create good view morphing, Alexandre's hope to take only 8, doesn't work
                      MK> at all. (or maybe the view morphing algorithm in opencv is buggy! :-)

                      Maybe you can debug it and it will work with one normal pano! ;)
                      I am looking forward to see your app!

                      When I looked for some more papers I found these two interesting
                      things. These are recordings of talks at Google so we can imaging what
                      version >4 of Google Earth will look like.

                      First:
                      Photorealistic modeling of large-scale scenes.
                      Its like an Object Movie++
                      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1005515064833507247

                      And Virtual LA
                      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6435877356667287710

                      The interesting thing is that both use Photographs as a basis of their
                      models so I hope you also find it interesting but I am aware that this
                      is getting a bit OT.

                      MfG,
                      Thomas.
                    • Sam
                      Hey there, Did anyone try out the new autopano from autopano.net, claims to do HDR on the fly. Tried with 8mm lens but didnt quite do the right job, found out
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 12 2:19 PM
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                        Hey there,

                        Did anyone try out the new autopano from autopano.net, claims to do HDR
                        on the fly. Tried with 8mm lens but didnt quite do the right job, found
                        out it isnt compatible yet with fisheyes.

                        Try it out!

                        Sam
                      • yuval levy
                        ... I did try it out a few weeks ago. 8mm sigma. I hold my camera tilted 34° sideways when shooting panos. Autopano did order them like stairs. It was nice to
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 12 2:58 PM
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                          --- Sam <mygroups@...> wrote:
                          > Did anyone try out the new autopano from
                          > autopano.net, claims to do HDR
                          > on the fly. Tried with 8mm lens but didnt quite do
                          > the right job, found
                          > out it isnt compatible yet with fisheyes.


                          I did try it out a few weeks ago. 8mm sigma. I hold my
                          camera tilted 34° sideways when shooting panos.
                          Autopano did order them like stairs. It was nice to
                          look at but not exactly right. Alexandre told me that
                          fisheye support is coming soon.

                          Yuv

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                        • alexandre
                          Autopano Pro is currently in the v1.3 branch which aims is to give some manual tools to correct a panorama. Yesterday, phase 2 of beta 3 was released with many
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jul 12 9:57 PM
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                            Autopano Pro is currently in the v1.3 branch which aims is to give
                            some manual tools to correct a panorama. Yesterday, phase 2 of beta 3
                            was released with many new features. Just have a look here :
                            http://www.autopano.net/beta

                            We were forced to postpone Fisheyes support before for such lens, you
                            need more offen a manual mode than for standard lens. That's why we
                            decided to first release a control point editor in the product before
                            the activation of fisheye. But fisheye is already working internally,
                            I just cannot activate them until control point editor is finished. I
                            just want this feature working for 95% of panorama, that's huge and
                            needs many finetunning.

                            For information about current development :
                            our devBlog : http://blog.autopano.net
                            our community forum : http://forum.autopano.net

                            Alexandre


                            > I did try it out a few weeks ago. 8mm sigma. I hold my
                            > camera tilted 34° sideways when shooting panos.
                            > Autopano did order them like stairs. It was nice to
                            > look at but not exactly right. Alexandre told me that
                            > fisheye support is coming soon.
                            >
                            > Yuv
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