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Sigma 8mm f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount.... out of focus?

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  • wolfgang_lin
    Hi, Did anyone experienced this? I don t know if it is a case of out of focus or is it because of resolution of the lens or is it because of the
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 29, 2009
      Hi,
      Did anyone experienced this? I don't know if it is a case of "out of focus" or is it because of "resolution of the lens" or is it because of the f-stop.... my case is, I am using a Canon 5D2 and I have a new Sigma 8mm f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount... I aware that, the photos I shoot, if I use 100% to view, the images are never clear!

      I compare that with my Canon 15mm f2.8 Fisheye, the Sigma is terrible after comparison...

      Did anyone have the similar experience?

      Wolf
    • crane@ukonline.co.uk
      ... I ve never been happy with the sharpness of my f4. mick ... This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 29, 2009
        Quoting wolfgang_lin <wolfgang.lin@...>:

        > Hi,
        > Did anyone experienced this? I don't know if it is a case of "out of
        > focus" or is it because of "resolution of the lens" or is it because of the
        > f-stop.... my case is, I am using a Canon 5D2 and I have a new Sigma 8mm f3.5
        > Fisheye for Canon EF mount... I aware that, the photos I shoot, if I use 100%
        > to view, the images are never clear!
        >
        > I compare that with my Canon 15mm f2.8 Fisheye, the Sigma is terrible
        > after comparison...
        >
        > Did anyone have the similar experience?

        I've never been happy with the sharpness of my f4.
        mick


        ----------------------------------------------
        This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
      • Hans
        ... Why not supply an example together with the data for your aperture and focus setting. Hans
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 29, 2009
          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "wolfgang_lin" <wolfgang.lin@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          > Did anyone experienced this? I don't know if it is a case of "out of focus" or is it because of "resolution of the lens" or is it because of the f-stop.... my case is, I am using a Canon 5D2 and I have a new Sigma 8mm f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount... I aware that, the photos I shoot, if I use 100% to view, the images are never clear!
          >
          > I compare that with my Canon 15mm f2.8 Fisheye, the Sigma is terrible after comparison...
          >
          > Did anyone have the similar experience?
          >

          Why not supply an example together with the data for your aperture and focus setting.

          Hans
        • jrgen_schrader
          The Canon 15mm is definitely a reference for websized panoramas and a circular fisheye will hardly ever beat it. But to judge your individual case we would
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 29, 2009
            The Canon 15mm is definitely a reference for websized panoramas and a circular fisheye will hardly ever beat it. But to judge your individual case we would need a sample picture or 100% crops of center and edges.

            Jürgen

            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "wolfgang_lin" <wolfgang.lin@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            > Did anyone experienced this? I don't know if it is a case of "out of focus" or is it because of "resolution of the lens" or is it because of the f-stop.... my case is, I am using a Canon 5D2 and I have a new Sigma 8mm f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount... I aware that, the photos I shoot, if I use 100% to view, the images are never clear!
            >
            > I compare that with my Canon 15mm f2.8 Fisheye, the Sigma is terrible after comparison...
            >
            > Did anyone have the similar experience?
            >
            > Wolf
            >
          • Wolfgang Lin
            Here are some samples. I use the Canon DPP to view them and crop them I shot them on tripod + shutter remote + mirror up first 2 samples using different % (50
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 29, 2009
              Here are some samples. I use the Canon DPP to view them and crop them
              I shot them on tripod + shutter remote + mirror up first

              2 samples using different % (50 and 100) from the Canon 15mm
              1 sample of 100% from the Sigma 8mm,
              they are focusing on the top area of the photo.
              another 1 sample (with marked "2") from the Sigma 8mm, 100%, same photo,
              from the center focal. The camera shot at focusing the center of the iron
              ruler.

              EXIF
              for Sigma: ISO 100, F3.5
              for Canon: ISO 100, F2.8

              PS: I aware that, seems that the Sigma's best sharpness is from F11 to
              F16... but I could not find any scientific supporting from the web.. the
              Sigma.com MTF chart is for F3.5 only....

              Wolf



              2009/12/29 jrgen_schrader <panorama@...>

              >
              >
              > The Canon 15mm is definitely a reference for websized panoramas and a
              > circular fisheye will hardly ever beat it. But to judge your individual case
              > we would need a sample picture or 100% crops of center and edges.
              >
              > Jürgen
              >
              >
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "wolfgang_lin" <wolfgang.lin@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi,
              > > Did anyone experienced this? I don't know if it is a case of "out of
              > focus" or is it because of "resolution of the lens" or is it because of the
              > f-stop.... my case is, I am using a Canon 5D2 and I have a new Sigma 8mm
              > f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount... I aware that, the photos I shoot, if I
              > use 100% to view, the images are never clear!
              > >
              > > I compare that with my Canon 15mm f2.8 Fisheye, the Sigma is terrible
              > after comparison...
              > >
              > > Did anyone have the similar experience?
              > >
              > > Wolf
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Roger D. Williams
              It could be that you have a sub-standard lens. Sigma does have the occasional problem with quality control, but is good about owning up and replacing such
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 29, 2009
                It could be that you have a sub-standard lens. Sigma does have the
                occasional problem with quality control, but is good about owning
                up and replacing such units if notified soon after purchase.

                I heard about such a case here on this list, and a photographer
                friend in Japan--an early adopter--had first one then another DP-2
                replaced when they developed the same problem. I understand this
                particular problem was soon completely resolved and no longer
                affects current production.

                My own Sigma 8mm f/3.5 is best used at f/5.6 or f/8, and is quite
                sharp even at the periphery once you get rid of chromatic
                aberration. I am surprised you find f/11 to f/16 give the best
                sharpness. f/16 on an 8mm lens must be well into the area where
                diffraction, not inherent lens resolution, is the limiting factor.

                Roger W.


                On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 01:03:06 +0900, Wolfgang Lin <wolfgang.lin@...>
                wrote:

                > Here are some samples. I use the Canon DPP to view them and crop them
                > I shot them on tripod + shutter remote + mirror up first
                >
                > 2 samples using different % (50 and 100) from the Canon 15mm
                > 1 sample of 100% from the Sigma 8mm,
                > they are focusing on the top area of the photo.
                > another 1 sample (with marked "2") from the Sigma 8mm, 100%, same photo,
                > from the center focal. The camera shot at focusing the center of the iron
                > ruler.
                >
                > EXIF
                > for Sigma: ISO 100, F3.5
                > for Canon: ISO 100, F2.8
                >
                > PS: I aware that, seems that the Sigma's best sharpness is from F11 to
                > F16... but I could not find any scientific supporting from the web.. the
                > Sigma.com MTF chart is for F3.5 only....
                >
                > Wolf
                >
                >
                >
                > 2009/12/29 jrgen_schrader <panorama@...>
                >
                >>
                >>
                >> The Canon 15mm is definitely a reference for websized panoramas and a
                >> circular fisheye will hardly ever beat it. But to judge your individual
                >> case
                >> we would need a sample picture or 100% crops of center and edges.
                >>
                >> Jürgen
                >>
                >>
                >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>,
                >> "wolfgang_lin" <wolfgang.lin@...> wrote:
                >> >
                >> > Hi,
                >> > Did anyone experienced this? I don't know if it is a case of "out of
                >> focus" or is it because of "resolution of the lens" or is it because of
                >> the
                >> f-stop.... my case is, I am using a Canon 5D2 and I have a new Sigma 8mm
                >> f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount... I aware that, the photos I shoot, if
                >> I
                >> use 100% to view, the images are never clear!
                >> >
                >> > I compare that with my Canon 15mm f2.8 Fisheye, the Sigma is terrible
                >> after comparison...
                >> >
                >> > Did anyone have the similar experience?
                >> >
                >> > Wolf
                >> >
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >


                --
                Business: www.adex-japan.com
                Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
              • Hans
                ... What about a link to your samples? Hans
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 29, 2009
                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wolfgang Lin <wolfgang.lin@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Here are some samples. I use the Canon DPP to view them and crop them
                  > I shot them on tripod + shutter remote + mirror up first
                  >
                  > 2 samples using different % (50 and 100) from the Canon 15mm
                  > 1 sample of 100% from the Sigma 8mm,
                  > they are focusing on the top area of the photo.
                  > another 1 sample (with marked "2") from the Sigma 8mm, 100%, same photo,
                  > from the center focal. The camera shot at focusing the center of the iron
                  > ruler.

                  What about a link to your samples?

                  Hans


                  >
                  > EXIF
                  > for Sigma: ISO 100, F3.5
                  > for Canon: ISO 100, F2.8
                  >
                  > PS: I aware that, seems that the Sigma's best sharpness is from F11 to
                  > F16... but I could not find any scientific supporting from the web.. the
                  > Sigma.com MTF chart is for F3.5 only....
                  >
                  > Wolf
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 2009/12/29 jrgen_schrader <panorama@...>
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The Canon 15mm is definitely a reference for websized panoramas and a
                  > > circular fisheye will hardly ever beat it. But to judge your individual case
                  > > we would need a sample picture or 100% crops of center and edges.
                  > >
                  > > Jürgen
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > > "wolfgang_lin" <wolfgang.lin@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi,
                  > > > Did anyone experienced this? I don't know if it is a case of "out of
                  > > focus" or is it because of "resolution of the lens" or is it because of the
                  > > f-stop.... my case is, I am using a Canon 5D2 and I have a new Sigma 8mm
                  > > f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount... I aware that, the photos I shoot, if I
                  > > use 100% to view, the images are never clear!
                  > > >
                  > > > I compare that with my Canon 15mm f2.8 Fisheye, the Sigma is terrible
                  > > after comparison...
                  > > >
                  > > > Did anyone have the similar experience?
                  > > >
                  > > > Wolf
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Hans
                  Re: Sigma 8mm f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount.... out of focus? ... Here is a test comparing the centre of the Canon 15mm with the old Sigma 8mm f4. To make
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 29, 2009
                    Re: Sigma 8mm f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount.... out of focus?



                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The Canon 15mm is definitely a reference for websized panoramas and a circular
                    >fisheye will hardly ever beat it. But to judge your individual case we would
                    >need a sample
                    >picture or 100% crops of center and edges.

                    Here is a test comparing the centre of the Canon 15mm with the old Sigma 8mm f4.
                    To make them comparable the images are taken at distances that give you the same
                    size of the subject. Image in 100%

                    http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/sigma8/Sigma8-Canon15.jpg

                    Taken with Canon 5D Mark II

                    Hans


                    >
                    > Jürgen
                    >
                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "wolfgang_lin" <wolfgang.lin@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi,
                    > > Did anyone experienced this? I don't know if it is a case of "out of
                    focus" or is it because of "resolution of the lens" or is it because of the
                    f-stop.... my case is, I am using a Canon 5D2 and I have a new Sigma 8mm f3.5
                    Fisheye for Canon EF mount... I aware that, the photos I shoot, if I use 100% to
                    view, the images are never clear!
                    > >
                    > > I compare that with my Canon 15mm f2.8 Fisheye, the Sigma is terrible
                    after comparison...
                    > >
                    > > Did anyone have the similar experience?
                    > >
                    > > Wolf
                    > >
                    >
                  • dburton97128
                    The Sigma f4 looks sharper than the Canon in that example. Is that expected? David B
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 29, 2009
                      The Sigma f4 looks sharper than the Canon in that example. Is that expected?

                      David B

                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Re: Sigma 8mm f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount.... out of focus?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > The Canon 15mm is definitely a reference for websized panoramas and a circular
                      > >fisheye will hardly ever beat it. But to judge your individual case we would
                      > >need a sample
                      > >picture or 100% crops of center and edges.
                      >
                      > Here is a test comparing the centre of the Canon 15mm with the old Sigma 8mm f4.
                      > To make them comparable the images are taken at distances that give you the same
                      > size of the subject. Image in 100%
                      >
                      > http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/sigma8/Sigma8-Canon15.jpg
                      >
                      > Taken with Canon 5D Mark II
                      >
                      > Hans
                      >
                      >
                    • Wolfgang Lin
                      Hi everybody, Tested several times on different subjects: different F-stops, focal distances, and camera settings, I found the root cause! The trouble is a
                      Message 10 of 12 , Dec 29, 2009
                        Hi everybody,
                        Tested several times on different subjects: different F-stops,
                        focal distances, and camera settings, I found the root cause!

                        The trouble is a very typical Sigma lens trouble, which I
                        original do not expect to meet on a fisheye lens, that it is simply
                        b'coz of "focal point shifted"! Using the function on 5D2 to adjust
                        the shifting to "forward +20", I get a better result but still out of
                        focus!

                        What a good Sigma! My friend's another 3.5 fisheye has the trouble!

                        Wolf

                        2009/12/30, dburton97128 <dburton97128@...>:
                        > The Sigma f4 looks sharper than the Canon in that example. Is that
                        > expected?
                        >
                        > David B
                        >
                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Re: Sigma 8mm f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount.... out of focus?
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@> wrote:
                        >> >
                        >> > The Canon 15mm is definitely a reference for websized panoramas and a
                        >> > circular
                        >> >fisheye will hardly ever beat it. But to judge your individual case we
                        >> > would
                        >> >need a sample
                        >> >picture or 100% crops of center and edges.
                        >>
                        >> Here is a test comparing the centre of the Canon 15mm with the old Sigma
                        >> 8mm f4.
                        >> To make them comparable the images are taken at distances that give you
                        >> the same
                        >> size of the subject. Image in 100%
                        >>
                        >> http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/sigma8/Sigma8-Canon15.jpg
                        >>
                        >> Taken with Canon 5D Mark II
                        >>
                        >> Hans
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                      • Hans
                        ... ??? What are you talking about. What shifting? There is no such function and anyway what would you use it for. An 8mm should not be used with autofocus
                        Message 11 of 12 , Dec 30, 2009
                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wolfgang Lin <wolfgang.lin@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi everybody,
                          > Tested several times on different subjects: different F-stops,
                          > focal distances, and camera settings, I found the root cause!
                          >
                          > The trouble is a very typical Sigma lens trouble, which I
                          > original do not expect to meet on a fisheye lens, that it is simply
                          > b'coz of "focal point shifted"! Using the function on 5D2 to adjust
                          > the shifting to "forward +20", I get a better result but still out of
                          > focus!

                          ??? What are you talking about. What shifting?

                          There is no such function and anyway what would you use it for.
                          An 8mm should not be used with autofocus unless you want to work in the 0.2-0.5 meter area.

                          There is no idea in that.
                          Set the focus at 1 meter. That gives you focus from 0.5m to infinity even at full aperture. Thats it. Disable the autofocus and put a large peace of ducktape to lock the focus so that you do not change it by mistake.


                          Hans



                          >
                          > What a good Sigma! My friend's another 3.5 fisheye has the trouble!
                          >
                          > Wolf
                          >
                          > 2009/12/30, dburton97128 <dburton97128@...>:
                          > > The Sigma f4 looks sharper than the Canon in that example. Is that
                          > > expected?
                          > >
                          > > David B
                          > >
                          > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >> Re: Sigma 8mm f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount.... out of focus?
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@> wrote:
                          > >> >
                          > >> > The Canon 15mm is definitely a reference for websized panoramas and a
                          > >> > circular
                          > >> >fisheye will hardly ever beat it. But to judge your individual case we
                          > >> > would
                          > >> >need a sample
                          > >> >picture or 100% crops of center and edges.
                          > >>
                          > >> Here is a test comparing the centre of the Canon 15mm with the old Sigma
                          > >> 8mm f4.
                          > >> To make them comparable the images are taken at distances that give you
                          > >> the same
                          > >> size of the subject. Image in 100%
                          > >>
                          > >> http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/sigma8/Sigma8-Canon15.jpg
                          > >>
                          > >> Taken with Canon 5D Mark II
                          > >>
                          > >> Hans
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Wolfgang Lin
                          Yes Hans, this is what I am going to do. I was thinking that it should give me AF result on the 1 meter (b coz when I use the Canon 15mm, the camera AF could
                          Message 12 of 12 , Dec 30, 2009
                            Yes Hans, this is what I am going to do. I was thinking that it should
                            give me AF result on the 1 meter (b'coz when I use the Canon 15mm,
                            the camera AF could give me a clear result). Now for this Sigma 8mm,
                            the camera AF result is not on the 1 meter position but the infinity,
                            and thus it is not clear.

                            Wolf


                            2009/12/30, Hans <hans@...>:
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wolfgang Lin <wolfgang.lin@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> Hi everybody,
                            >> Tested several times on different subjects: different F-stops,
                            >> focal distances, and camera settings, I found the root cause!
                            >>
                            >> The trouble is a very typical Sigma lens trouble, which I
                            >> original do not expect to meet on a fisheye lens, that it is simply
                            >> b'coz of "focal point shifted"! Using the function on 5D2 to adjust
                            >> the shifting to "forward +20", I get a better result but still out of
                            >> focus!
                            >
                            > ??? What are you talking about. What shifting?
                            >
                            > There is no such function and anyway what would you use it for.
                            > An 8mm should not be used with autofocus unless you want to work in the
                            > 0.2-0.5 meter area.
                            >
                            > There is no idea in that.
                            > Set the focus at 1 meter. That gives you focus from 0.5m to infinity even at
                            > full aperture. Thats it. Disable the autofocus and put a large peace of
                            > ducktape to lock the focus so that you do not change it by mistake.
                            >
                            >
                            > Hans
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >>
                            >> What a good Sigma! My friend's another 3.5 fisheye has the trouble!
                            >>
                            >> Wolf
                            >>
                            >> 2009/12/30, dburton97128 <dburton97128@...>:
                            >> > The Sigma f4 looks sharper than the Canon in that example. Is that
                            >> > expected?
                            >> >
                            >> > David B
                            >> >
                            >> > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                            >> >>
                            >> >> Re: Sigma 8mm f3.5 Fisheye for Canon EF mount.... out of focus?
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jrgen_schrader" <panorama@> wrote:
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> > The Canon 15mm is definitely a reference for websized panoramas and a
                            >> >> > circular
                            >> >> >fisheye will hardly ever beat it. But to judge your individual case we
                            >> >> > would
                            >> >> >need a sample
                            >> >> >picture or 100% crops of center and edges.
                            >> >>
                            >> >> Here is a test comparing the centre of the Canon 15mm with the old
                            >> >> Sigma
                            >> >> 8mm f4.
                            >> >> To make them comparable the images are taken at distances that give you
                            >> >> the same
                            >> >> size of the subject. Image in 100%
                            >> >>
                            >> >> http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/sigma8/Sigma8-Canon15.jpg
                            >> >>
                            >> >> Taken with Canon 5D Mark II
                            >> >>
                            >> >> Hans
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
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