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new permafrost tunnel panos

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  • matt_nolan_uaf
    I recently got my first panoramic photography project funded (as opposed to just doing it on the side), and it was also the first time I ve tried to work
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 22, 2009
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      I recently got my first panoramic photography project funded (as opposed to just doing it on the side), and it was also the first time I've tried to work indoors (as opposed to landscapes). This project is scientific and public outreach for a tunnel drilled into permafrost, where the bones of extinct mammoths and bison are jutting out from the walls, along with 30,000 year old green tundra, alders leaves, and frozen lakes and ice wedges. You can learn more about the tunnel and its science here (also, please note the introductory photo on the main page to get a sense of how dark it is there):
      http://permafrosttunnel.crrel.usace.army.mil/

      You can find the results of what I've done thus far here:
      http://www.360cities.net/search/crrel

      I invite any and all comments, criticism and help (!) on this project. The end goal is a packaged panoramic tour. I've got a _very_ preliminary tour here (just a draft with only a few hotlinks):
      http://www.360cities.net/tour-preview/crrel-permafrost-tunnel-panoramic-tour

      I'm interested in recommendations on other tour building packages, as the eventual goal is to have text, photos, and sound links both for each image and for features within the images.

      The rest of this note just describes my workflow, considerations, and frustrations…

      The primary difficulty shooting here is that is dark in the tunnel and unevenly lit by weak fluorescent lights. In my first attempt, I used the flash on the D300 with a regular shutter speed. This created a dark sphere with poor representation of the tunnel beyond where the flash could reach (did not post one of these; I also tried one with the lights turned off, even worse). I then decreased the shutter speed to a second or so and made this image:

      http://www.360cities.net/image/crrel-permafrost-tunnel-27march09-1223

      For the clients, this image was made them incredibly happy (and convinced them to fund more…), and I was not too unhappy with it. The main objection personally was the white balance, since the flash and fluorescents give different colors and only one could be whitened at a time. It also creates odd shadows since the flash is pointed different directions. It also made it nearly impossible for me to eliminate the tripod, both due to white balance issues and the lens getting in the way of the flash, and if you look closely you can see the flash did not evenly illuminate the entire fisheye area.

      I next tried longer shutter speeds (2.5 seconds) with ambient light:
      http://www.360cities.net/image/crrel-permafrost-tunnel-090327-1202

      This worked fine and created a pleasing image, except that the lights were completely blown out and obscured what was behind them substantially.

      Then I began experimenting with HDR and exposure blending. Given the general wobbliness of the floor and trying to acquire 7 or 9 identically-lined up shots for each image, this required using my Seitz roundshot to turn the camera and trip the shutter (which I normally only use for gigapixel images); without this, I'm not sure it would be possible to do this sanely in this situation. By programming this stepping off the wobbly walkway, it was actually pretty reasonable even with a 35mm lens requiring so many shots. Using anything but the 10.5mm fisheye was a ridiculous amount of work for not so much gain; one issue with the longer focal lengths (besides more shots- 300 for 17mm) is the loss of depth of field required tiny apertures, which is a real issue in such a dark environment. So I only fully stitched one 17mm shot:
      http://www.360cities.net/image/crrel-permafrost-tunnel-23m-into-adit-north-america
      (note the mammoth bones in the wall where the initial view is located and nearby there; also note the piece of paper I used to shield the light -- worked great, though a little purple)

      And the rest at 10.5mm.

      These multi-exposure techniques produced the most pleasing images in my mind, but only with considerable effort. I found the Enfuse and PTgui exposure blend gave the best results. I twiddled substantially with both the number of exposures and the settings, but found the default settings gave the best results. For the images seen here I used 7 stops from 1/25s to 2.5s. I found that I really needed 5s to get the fullest light on the dark walls, but this became problematic on the wobbly floor and also substantially increased acquisition time. So then I discovered that I could synthetically create the 5s exposure by taking the raw frame of the 2.5s exposure and increasing the exposure a stop; so some of these have this and some dont. I found this really made for brighter images and was pretty easy to implement.

      In the end I use Enfuse GUI for these, as I found it gave me more control over the results by 1) setting the white balance of the raw images and outputting as tiffs, 2) enfusing them (be sure Hard Blend Masks are checked, makes a big difference), 3) adjusting contrast, saturation, white balance, etc in Camera Raw and resaving, 4) stitching in PTgui (don't use the image optimization, gives unpredictable results in this case), and 5) final corrections and cleanup in PS. PTgui's exposure fusion I think did a slightly better job with the lights, but offered less intermediate control and I found I was not good enough in PS to get the final result as good.

      This was the first time I seriously played with exposure fusion and learned a lot. The main challenge is how to reduce overall scene contrast (bright lights and dark walls) without eliminate small-scale contrast of the features of interest (in the walls themselves) – that is how to not end up with a contrastless gray blob. So I played with different contrast, white balance, saturation and exposure adjustments on the intermediate and final image, so each panorama is done a bit differently. I've made prints of them all and at some point will pick the settings I like best and reprocess them all, this was just a first round in the learning curve. If there are any you especially like or don't like, please let me know. The point of the photography was primarily scientific and outreach, as much as making pretty pictures, so I wanted to make things as visible as possible. If these were fine artwork, I might be tempted to leave the walls a bit darker to give it a more homey underground feeling, not sure.

      Another trick I learned was creating mirror balls for the nadir shot. OMG, what a time savings! I need four shots and a lot of masking, control point editing, and cleanup to eliminate the tripod, all done from a tripod due to the slow shutter speeds and fusion. If I were more sane in the future, I would probably just use a single flash exposure and a mirror ball and be done with it, as this gets me 80-90% of the way there. All of the exposures and nadir stitching gets me probably 95% of the way there, but with easily 10 times more work. But the prints definitely come out nicer with the floor stitched in (mirror balls just don't work for prints…), and surprisingly hold adequate detail when printed with Qimage at 3'x6' on a Z3100 (pixel dimensions are roughly 12000x6000).

      One thing I'm not completely satisfied with is the colour fringing around the blown out lights. I'm not sure there is much I can do with this in the exposure fusing, but perhaps there is a photoshop trick for eliminating it. Any advice would be appreciated. I think it results from the white balance corrections, I prefer a bit bluer image in general as I think it adds more pop to the saturation, but it is actually more pop than exists in reality as it's pretty dusty tan in there without a lot of natural contrast.

      Anyway, that's where I am so far. I still have one more tunnel (the offshoot with the yellow floor) to shoot next week, but I thought I'd share these for comments in the meantime. While I think 360 panoramas are great way to show tunnels, I think I'll stick mostly to landscapes as they seem much easier to me, my hat's off to those of you who struggle with indoor lighting issues regularly...

      Cheers,
      Matt
    • Phil
      Hi Matt, That s an amazing opportunity for you to shoot these panoramas underground. Thanks for sharing the links along with your description of the experience
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 22, 2009
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        Hi Matt,

        That's an amazing opportunity for you to shoot these panoramas underground. Thanks for sharing the links along with your description of the experience in the tunnel.

        The Enfused exposures do a good job at lighting it up. The only way to reduce the blow outs is by take more exposures at a faster shutter speed. I think using the paper around the light bulb worked great on the one at 23 meters. That's easier and faster than taking more exposures when you have a wobbly floor.

        There's not an easy way I know of to color correct for different color temps. It just takes time to mask and adjust for each light source. Using a flash will only make it more difficult and the Enfused shots don't need it.

        I've subscribed to your 360cities rss so I can check out the new 360 shots when you put them online.

        Phil
      • prague
        Hi Matt, What can I say but AWESOME! :-) Ok, here are a few thoughts: 1) Get a Promote control. I have only heard great things about it. Multiple exposures, as
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 23, 2009
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          Hi Matt,

          What can I say but AWESOME! :-)

          Ok, here are a few thoughts:

          1) Get a Promote control. I have only heard great things about it. Multiple exposures, as many as you want, even with the moronic nikon 1-stop limit firmware. (yes nikon is better than canon at some things, but they're even more moronic with their 1-stop limit - open your firmware, Canon and Nikon!!!!)

          2) I used to prefer enfuse but lately I prefer the level of control with ptgui exposure fusion.



          FYI everyone else, the RSS that Phil mentions below is this
          http://www.360cities.net/rss/author/matt-nolan.rss if you want to follow his panos as they get published.....

          all 360cities authors have their own RSS feeds if you want to follow specific people. You can also subscribe to an rss feed of any of our "areas" e.g. this area http://www.360cities.net/area/arctic-national-wildlife-refuge-alaska (short link: http://bit.ly/83SLHl ) has this rss feed: http://www.360cities.net/rss/area/arctic-national-wildlife-refuge-alaska.rss (short link: http://bit.ly/6Gu1ER )



          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <philip@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi Matt,
          >
          > That's an amazing opportunity for you to shoot these panoramas underground. Thanks for sharing the links along with your description of the experience in the tunnel.
          >
          > The Enfused exposures do a good job at lighting it up. The only way to reduce the blow outs is by take more exposures at a faster shutter speed. I think using the paper around the light bulb worked great on the one at 23 meters. That's easier and faster than taking more exposures when you have a wobbly floor.
          >
          > There's not an easy way I know of to color correct for different color temps. It just takes time to mask and adjust for each light source. Using a flash will only make it more difficult and the Enfused shots don't need it.
          >
          > I've subscribed to your 360cities rss so I can check out the new 360 shots when you put them online.
          >
          > Phil
          >
        • matt_nolan_uaf
          Thanks. I admit I didnt fool with PTGui s expsoure fusion extensively once I got a workflow established with Enfuse, so I ll look into it some more. I ll
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 23, 2009
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            Thanks. I admit I didnt fool with PTGui's expsoure fusion extensively once I got a workflow established with Enfuse, so I'll look into it some more. I'll have to look into the Promote Control too -- indeed one of the frustrating aspects of the Nikon firmware is that it limits you to only 1 stop brackets and in this case 2 stop brackets would have achieved basically the same result with fewer photos. I think for this next round of shooting, I'm just going to cheat and cover all of the lights with a paper shield to cut down on brightness and flare...
            -Matt

            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "prague" <360cities@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Matt,
            >
            > What can I say but AWESOME! :-)
            >
            > Ok, here are a few thoughts:
            >
            > 1) Get a Promote control. I have only heard great things about it. Multiple exposures, as many as you want, even with the moronic nikon 1-stop limit firmware. (yes nikon is better than canon at some things, but they're even more moronic with their 1-stop limit - open your firmware, Canon and Nikon!!!!)
            >
            > 2) I used to prefer enfuse but lately I prefer the level of control with ptgui exposure fusion.
            >
            >
            >
            > FYI everyone else, the RSS that Phil mentions below is this
            > http://www.360cities.net/rss/author/matt-nolan.rss if you want to follow his panos as they get published.....
            >
            > all 360cities authors have their own RSS feeds if you want to follow specific people. You can also subscribe to an rss feed of any of our "areas" e.g. this area http://www.360cities.net/area/arctic-national-wildlife-refuge-alaska (short link: http://bit.ly/83SLHl ) has this rss feed: http://www.360cities.net/rss/area/arctic-national-wildlife-refuge-alaska.rss (short link: http://bit.ly/6Gu1ER )
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <philip@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Matt,
            > >
            > > That's an amazing opportunity for you to shoot these panoramas underground. Thanks for sharing the links along with your description of the experience in the tunnel.
            > >
            > > The Enfused exposures do a good job at lighting it up. The only way to reduce the blow outs is by take more exposures at a faster shutter speed. I think using the paper around the light bulb worked great on the one at 23 meters. That's easier and faster than taking more exposures when you have a wobbly floor.
            > >
            > > There's not an easy way I know of to color correct for different color temps. It just takes time to mask and adjust for each light source. Using a flash will only make it more difficult and the Enfused shots don't need it.
            > >
            > > I've subscribed to your 360cities rss so I can check out the new 360 shots when you put them online.
            > >
            > > Phil
            > >
            >
          • Bostjan Burger
            Great tour! What about to make the visualization with your own light (like light painting) and switch off the installed one? ... [Non-text portions of this
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 23, 2009
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              Great tour! What about to make the visualization with your own light (like light painting) and switch off the installed one?
              :) Bostjan

























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • matt_nolan_uaf
              Interesting idea. I can see how that might make for some creative imagery. I was thinking of buying some of these cheap million candlepower flashlights
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 23, 2009
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                Interesting idea. I can see how that might make for some creative imagery. I was thinking of buying some of these cheap million candlepower flashlights simply for extra illumination over features, but they could just as easily be used in a bulb mode. It's pretty dark in there with the light off though! So would have to balance light painting with not tripping over things...

                One outreach application I can see for something like this is perhaps when trying to feature bones or ice wedges within the panorama, such as to make these 'glow' a bit by being brighter than the background. Perhaps it can be done in post-processing by exposure fusing the overall panorama a bit dark then using photoshop to paint in the brighter scene over those features, such that your eye would be drawn to them when panning around.

                Thanks,
                Matt

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bostjan Burger <si_lander@...> wrote:
                >
                > Great tour! What about to make the visualization with your own light (like light painting) and switch off the installed one?
                > :) Bostjan
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              • Bostjan Burger
                It is the hard way but you control the light situation. Here is an example of light painting inside a quite huge cavern
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 23, 2009
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                  It is the hard way but you control the light situation. Here is an example of light painting inside a quite huge cavern : http://www.burger.si/Jame/NovaKriznaJama/35.html%c2%a0... after ~ 10 hours of climbing inside (and then the same way back ;) ).You can see the the light track on the cave wall in a far distance.

                  :) Bostjan

                  --- On Thu, 12/24/09, matt_nolan_uaf <web@...> wrote:

                  From: matt_nolan_uaf <web@...>
                  Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: new permafrost tunnel panos
                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 12:46 AM
















                   









                  Interesting idea. I can see how that might make for some creative imagery. I was thinking of buying some of these cheap million candlepower flashlights simply for extra illumination over features, but they could just as easily be used in a bulb mode. It's pretty dark in there with the light off though! So would have to balance light painting with not tripping over things...



                  One outreach application I can see for something like this is perhaps when trying to feature bones or ice wedges within the panorama, such as to make these 'glow' a bit by being brighter than the background. Perhaps it can be done in post-processing by exposure fusing the overall panorama a bit dark then using photoshop to paint in the brighter scene over those features, such that your eye would be drawn to them when panning around.



                  Thanks,

                  Matt



                  --- In PanoToolsNG@ yahoogroups. com, Bostjan Burger <si_lander@. ..> wrote:

                  >

                  > Great tour! What about to make the visualization with your own light (like light painting) and switch off the installed one?

                  > :) Bostjan























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • matt_nolan_uaf
                  That is a really inspiring tour! Except that I wish my tunnel was so colorful too! Could you tell me more about the light painting technique you used? Was it
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 24, 2009
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                    That is a really inspiring tour! Except that I wish my tunnel was so colorful too!

                    Could you tell me more about the light painting technique you used? Was it with a flash unit or a regular light (always on)? How did you balance the light so evenly?

                    How about the tour software -- could you tell me what you used to create it? I really know very little about such software and havent looked into it at all yet.

                    Do you know of other 'tunnel tours' like yours that you could share?

                    Thanks!
                    Matt
                  • Bostjan Burger
                    As a retired programmer I don t make a coding or programing in purpose so I use the easy way: Pano2VR (look at h ttp://gardengnomesoftware.com ). I used java
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 24, 2009
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                      As a retired programmer I don't make a coding or programing in purpose so I use the easy way: Pano2VR (look at h ttp://gardengnomesoftware.com ). I used java 10 years ago...here is an old example with xml coding: http://www.burger.si/Jame/KriznaJama/KriznaJamaENG.html%c2%a0.Today a good pick is a Krpano which is not limited to 2880 cube pix resolution.
                      You can find some caving VR tours here ( http://www.burger.si/SLOCaves_eng.html%c2%a0), but consider that the quality is related to different time periods. (1999-2009)
                      Quite old (2003-2004) 'tunnel' tour is the coal mining museum which 'I did' several hundred meters below the surface: http://www.burger.si/MuzejiInGalerije/MuzejPremogovnistva/seznam.html%c2%a0... here I used a flash with the dispersion white adapter but as this method is good only for small room I prefere l'light painting' - at the moment I use LightLenser X21 flashlight - nice tool, especiall as it is realy light comparing the old heavy accus and it last at least 20 hours of effective work. Here are some results with it: http://www.burger.si/DOGODKI/2009_LedLenserX21/seznam_eng.html.There are not really many 'tunnel' VR tours on the internet...you can find some show caves or some single VRs inside the caves but not with more complex VR tours.
                      :) Bostjan

                      --- On Thu, 12/24/09, matt_nolan_uaf <web@...> wrote:

                      From: matt_nolan_uaf <web@...>
                      Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: new permafrost tunnel panos
                      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 9:48 AM
















                       









                      That is a really inspiring tour! Except that I wish my tunnel was so colorful too!



                      Could you tell me more about the light painting technique you used? Was it with a flash unit or a regular light (always on)? How did you balance the light so evenly?



                      How about the tour software -- could you tell me what you used to create it? I really know very little about such software and havent looked into it at all yet.



                      Do you know of other 'tunnel tours' like yours that you could share?



                      Thanks!

                      Matt
























                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • matt_nolan_uaf
                      Great, just bought an X21 and am looking forward to experimenting with this technique! Thanks for the links and the explanations there. (I was unable to
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 24, 2009
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                        Great, just bought an X21 and am looking forward to experimenting with this technique! Thanks for the links and the explanations there. (I was unable to launch the VRs in the coal mine, but could see the jpg previews, neat!). Just to get started, do you have a suggestion on the amount of illumination time required with this light for a given aperture? Given how bright these lights are, its probably not that long in tight spaces.
                        -Matt

                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bostjan Burger <si_lander@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > As a retired programmer I don't make a coding or programing in purpose so I use the easy way: Pano2VR (look at h ttp://gardengnomesoftware.com ). I used java 10 years ago...here is an old example with xml coding: http://www.burger.si/Jame/KriznaJama/KriznaJamaENG.html%c2%a0.Today a good pick is a Krpano which is not limited to 2880 cube pix resolution.
                        > You can find some caving VR tours here ( http://www.burger.si/SLOCaves_eng.html%c2%a0), but consider that the quality is related to different time periods. (1999-2009)
                        > Quite old (2003-2004) 'tunnel' tour is the coal mining museum which 'I did' several hundred meters below the surface: http://www.burger.si/MuzejiInGalerije/MuzejPremogovnistva/seznam.html%c2%a0... here I used a flash with the dispersion white adapter but as this method is good only for small room I prefere l'light painting' - at the moment I use LightLenser X21 flashlight - nice tool, especiall as it is realy light comparing the old heavy accus and it last at least 20 hours of effective work. Here are some results with it: http://www.burger.si/DOGODKI/2009_LedLenserX21/seznam_eng.html.There are not really many 'tunnel' VR tours on the internet...you can find some show caves or some single VRs inside the caves but not with more complex VR tours.
                        > :) Bostjan
                        >
                        > --- On Thu, 12/24/09, matt_nolan_uaf <web@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: matt_nolan_uaf <web@...>
                        > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: new permafrost tunnel panos
                        > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 9:48 AM
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                        > That is a really inspiring tour! Except that I wish my tunnel was so colorful too!
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                        > Could you tell me more about the light painting technique you used? Was it with a flash unit or a regular light (always on)? How did you balance the light so evenly?
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                        > How about the tour software -- could you tell me what you used to create it? I really know very little about such software and havent looked into it at all yet.
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                        > Do you know of other 'tunnel tours' like yours that you could share?
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                      • L.D.I. Felipe B. González
                        Hi Matt! 2009/12/24 matt_nolan_uaf ... I haven t ever made a pano with those lighting conditions. Why don t you try shooting a dark room
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 24, 2009
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                          Hi Matt!

                          2009/12/24 matt_nolan_uaf <web@...>

                          > explanations there. (I was unable to launch the VRs in the coal mine,
                          > but could see the jpg previews, neat!). Just to get started, do you have a
                          > suggestion on the amount of illumination time required with this light for a
                          > given aperture? Given how
                          >
                          I haven't ever made a pano with those lighting conditions. Why don't you try
                          shooting a dark room to calibrate your aperture and exposure times? It must
                          be fun to do your job.

                          Best regards from the subtropical regions of Mexico

                          --
                          L.D.I. Felipe B. González C.
                          felipe@...
                          1998-5246
                          www.fpk.com.mx
                          http://recorridosvirtualesmexico.blogspot.com/

                          Socio Director Maquetas Virtuales www.maquetasvirtuales.com
                          Socio Director Recorridos Virtuales www.recorridosvirtuales.com


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bostjan Burger
                          Oh... that VR coal mine  didn t work as I had decided after my previous post, that it is time to upgrade that VR tour from java to flash and make a simple
                          Message 12 of 13 , Dec 24, 2009
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                            Oh... that 'VR coal mine'  didn't work as I had decided after my previous post, that it is time to upgrade that VR tour from java to flash and make a simple VR tour. I didn't correct the stiching errors... but... however, now that VR tour should work again. The shutter time depends of the room size. My practice is that the aperture is open to the sharpest - usually ~ 5-7 if the room is small and wide open when the room is huge. I use the bulb mode with the shutter time up to 15 min. if necessary as an example here: http://www.burger.si/Jame/ZelskeJame/01.html. or here: http://www.burger.si/Jame/ZelskeJame/04.html.%c2%a0X21 offers zooming the light and that is fine when you start with the light beam from the distance in the tunnel and then slowly widen in purpose to illuminate the tunnel towards your direction. Check my links and you will easily find out the method. First of all you'll need to get some practice... and than it will be a big fun.This method
                            is fine as you become more independent from the 'light assistants' and the shooting the dark places will be faster.Check also this 'macro VR panorama' : http://www.burger.si/Jame/NovaKriznaJama/30.html. It is really tight place - the height of the room was about 60-80 cm and the passages...that's where are hotspots were only 25-30 cm height...barely enough to climb trough. The height of the relief on the botom was only 1.5 cm. Doing that with the flash was not possible but X21 (Zweibruder) was to bright - it is ~ 1000 ANSI lumen, so I used here P12 (Zweibruder).
                            :) Bostjan

                            --- On Thu, 12/24/09, matt_nolan_uaf <web@...> wrote:

                            From: matt_nolan_uaf <web@...>
                            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: new permafrost tunnel panos
                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 8:22 PM
















                             









                            Great, just bought an X21 and am looking forward to experimenting with this technique! Thanks for the links and the explanations there. (I was unable to launch the VRs in the coal mine, but could see the jpg previews, neat!). Just to get started, do you have a suggestion on the amount of illumination time required with this light for a given aperture? Given how bright these lights are, its probably not that long in tight spaces.

                            -Matt



                            --- In PanoToolsNG@ yahoogroups. com, Bostjan Burger <si_lander@. ..> wrote:

                            >

                            > As a retired programmer I don't make a coding or programing in purpose so I use the easy way: Pano2VR (look at h ttp://gardengnomeso ftware.com ). I used java 10 years ago...here is an old example with xml coding: http://www.burger si/Jame/KriznaJa ma/KriznaJamaENG .html .Today a good pick is a Krpano which is not limited to 2880 cube pix resolution.

                            > You can find some caving VR tours here ( http://www.burger si/SLOCaves_ eng.html ), but consider that the quality is related to different time periods. (1999-2009)

                            > Quite old (2003-2004) 'tunnel' tour is the coal mining museum which 'I did' several hundred meters below the surface: http://www.burger si/MuzejiInGaler ije/MuzejPremogo vnistva/seznam. html ... here I used a flash with the dispersion white adapter but as this method is good only for small room I prefere l'light painting' - at the moment I use LightLenser X21 flashlight - nice tool, especiall as it is realy light comparing the old heavy accus and it last at least 20 hours of effective work. Here are some results with it: http://www.burger si/DOGODKI/ 2009_LedLenserX2 1/seznam_ eng.html. There are not really many 'tunnel' VR tours on the internet...you can find some show caves or some single VRs inside the caves but not with more complex VR tours.

                            > :) Bostjan

                            >

                            > --- On Thu, 12/24/09, matt_nolan_uaf <web@...> wrote:

                            >

                            > From: matt_nolan_uaf <web@...>

                            > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: new permafrost tunnel panos

                            > To: PanoToolsNG@ yahoogroups. com

                            > Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 9:48 AM

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                            > That is a really inspiring tour! Except that I wish my tunnel was so colorful too!

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                            > Could you tell me more about the light painting technique you used? Was it with a flash unit or a regular light (always on)? How did you balance the light so evenly?

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                            > How about the tour software -- could you tell me what you used to create it? I really know very little about such software and havent looked into it at all yet.

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                            > Do you know of other 'tunnel tours' like yours that you could share?

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                            > Thanks!

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                            > Matt

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                          • matt_nolan_uaf
                            Bostjan, thanks for the inspiration, light painting is cool! I had never tried it before. I posted my first attempt here
                            Message 13 of 13 , Dec 28, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Bostjan, thanks for the inspiration, light painting is cool! I had never tried it before. I posted my first attempt here

                              http://www.uaf.edu/water/faculty/nolan/temp/tunnel/lightpaint/tunnel_lightpaint.swf

                              This was of course just for fun and not of any value except to me as my first attempt. It was done with a small bright white led maglite, with 15 second exposures. With your X21 light (on order), I can see how (with substantial practice) this could eliminate the problem with the fluorescent lights and lead to some creative images.

                              I can also see enormous potential for this technique during long, dark Alaskan winters and am eager to get out of the cabin and tunnel and take panos while breathing some fresh air. I'll have to hurry as we gained 2.5 minutes of sunshine today and by next week we'll only have 20 hours of darkness per day! Now if we only had a flashlight that could darken things in the complete daylight of summer...

                              I went through your cave panos again and having now tried this a bit am even more impressed by them. Having myself worked in remote and awkward conditions, I can see how many technical challenges you have overcome to make such stunningly beautiful images which give the viewer such a wonderful impression of this remote place which most of us will never see.

                              Cheers,
                              Matt


                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bostjan Burger <si_lander@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Oh... that 'VR coal mine'  didn't work as I had decided after my previous post, that it is time to upgrade that VR tour from java to flash and make a simple VR tour. I didn't correct the stiching errors... but... however, now that VR tour should work again. The shutter time depends of the room size. My practice is that the aperture is open to the sharpest - usually ~ 5-7 if the room is small and wide open when the room is huge. I use the bulb mode with the shutter time up to 15 min. if necessary as an example here: http://www.burger.si/Jame/ZelskeJame/01.html. or here: http://www.burger.si/Jame/ZelskeJame/04.html.%c3%82%c2%a0X21 offers zooming the light and that is fine when you start with the light beam from the distance in the tunnel and then slowly widen in purpose to illuminate the tunnel towards your direction. Check my links and you will easily find out the method. First of all you'll need to get some practice... and than it will be a big fun.This method
                              > is fine as you become more independent from the 'light assistants' and the shooting the dark places will be faster.Check also this 'macro VR panorama' : http://www.burger.si/Jame/NovaKriznaJama/30.html. It is really tight place - the height of the room was about 60-80 cm and the passages...that's where are hotspots were only 25-30 cm height...barely enough to climb trough. The height of the relief on the botom was only 1.5 cm. Doing that with the flash was not possible but X21 (Zweibruder) was to bright - it is ~ 1000 ANSI lumen, so I used here P12 (Zweibruder).
                              > :) Bostjan
                              >
                              > --- On Thu, 12/24/09, matt_nolan_uaf <web@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: matt_nolan_uaf <web@...>
                              > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: new permafrost tunnel panos
                              > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 8:22 PM
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                              > Great, just bought an X21 and am looking forward to experimenting with this technique! Thanks for the links and the explanations there. (I was unable to launch the VRs in the coal mine, but could see the jpg previews, neat!). Just to get started, do you have a suggestion on the amount of illumination time required with this light for a given aperture? Given how bright these lights are, its probably not that long in tight spaces.
                              >
                              > -Matt
                              >
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                              >
                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@ yahoogroups. com, Bostjan Burger <si_lander@ ..> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > As a retired programmer I don't make a coding or programing in purpose so I use the easy way: Pano2VR (look at h ttp://gardengnomeso ftware.com ). I used java 10 years ago...here is an old example with xml coding: http://www.burger si/Jame/KriznaJa ma/KriznaJamaENG .html .Today a good pick is a Krpano which is not limited to 2880 cube pix resolution.
                              >
                              > > You can find some caving VR tours here ( http://www.burger si/SLOCaves_ eng.html ), but consider that the quality is related to different time periods. (1999-2009)
                              >
                              > > Quite old (2003-2004) 'tunnel' tour is the coal mining museum which 'I did' several hundred meters below the surface: http://www.burger si/MuzejiInGaler ije/MuzejPremogo vnistva/seznam. html ... here I used a flash with the dispersion white adapter but as this method is good only for small room I prefere l'light painting' - at the moment I use LightLenser X21 flashlight - nice tool, especiall as it is realy light comparing the old heavy accus and it last at least 20 hours of effective work. Here are some results with it: http://www.burger si/DOGODKI/ 2009_LedLenserX2 1/seznam_ eng.html. There are not really many 'tunnel' VR tours on the internet...you can find some show caves or some single VRs inside the caves but not with more complex VR tours.
                              >
                              > > :) Bostjan
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > --- On Thu, 12/24/09, matt_nolan_uaf <web@> wrote:
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                              > > From: matt_nolan_uaf <web@>
                              >
                              > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: new permafrost tunnel panos
                              >
                              > > To: PanoToolsNG@ yahoogroups. com
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                              > > Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 9:48 AM
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                              > > That is a really inspiring tour! Except that I wish my tunnel was so colorful too!
                              >
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                              >
                              > > Could you tell me more about the light painting technique you used? Was it with a flash unit or a regular light (always on)? How did you balance the light so evenly?
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                              > > How about the tour software -- could you tell me what you used to create it? I really know very little about such software and havent looked into it at all yet.
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                              > > Do you know of other 'tunnel tours' like yours that you could share?
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                              > > Thanks!
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                              > > Matt
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