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PTGui Stitching when shooting at odd angles

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  • onezebra1
    Hi Quentin, I shoot saving the images in RAW and Low Quality JPG. Here are 4 of them in LQ JPG for you to play with, of coarse with the RAW ones I would be
    Message 1 of 29 , Nov 10, 2009
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      Hi Quentin,
      I shoot saving the images in RAW and Low Quality JPG.
      Here are 4 of them in LQ JPG for you to play with, of coarse with the RAW ones I would be doing some adjustments like tweaking the Temperature, Fill Light, Clarity and whatever else I feel is needed.

      http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7125.JPG
      http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7126.JPG
      http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7127.JPG
      http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7128.JPG

      1-Load these into PTGui
      2-In Advanced, go to Lens Settings, Lens type: Circular. / Horizontal Field of View: 197
      3-In Project Assistant click on the Crop Tap and Crop the image where your removing just a little of it.
      4-Back to Project Assistant and click Align images, most likely your going to have add some control points here. then click optimize.
      5-In Edit Panorama look up at the tool bar and find 123, you may have to change the Pitch if the photo looks sideways or upside down, I put 90 in the Pitch box and click Apply 1 or 2 times when needed. If the photo is already right side up then in the tool bar use the + button to Center Panorama. With a few clicks you should have it level.
      6-You may need to go back and add some more Control Points at this point if the stitching looks off.
      7- Create Panorama, for Blending use Smartblend, it works best for this type of pano.

      I'm sure there are other ways of doing this, but this way works good for me.

      Roger Berry
      IndiaVRtours.com
    • Quentin Desouza
      Thanks Very much Roger, The images have cleared up my doubts and I can now see the correct angle of rotation. I shall follow your instructions and try
      Message 2 of 29 , Nov 10, 2009
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        Thanks Very much Roger,
        The images have cleared up my doubts and I can now see the correct angle
        of rotation.
        I shall follow your instructions and try assembling them and try and get
        the elephants right side up :)
        You must use a very fast shutter speed so that there is no blur at all!
        Most of my trials have resulted in a blur and I have had to ask people
        to stay absolutely still.
        specially in lowlight conditions we have been shooting at 200 ISO, so I
        have had long exposures resulting in "movement" and blurs. I think that
        by raising the ISO to 800 + the shutter speed can be increased
        considerably do you think this would make the image grainy ?
        Thanks again,
        Quentin.


        onezebra1 wrote:

        >
        >
        > Hi Quentin,
        > I shoot saving the images in RAW and Low Quality JPG.
        > Here are 4 of them in LQ JPG for you to play with, of coarse with the
        > RAW ones I would be doing some adjustments like tweaking the
        > Temperature, Fill Light, Clarity and whatever else I feel is needed.
        >
        > http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7125.JPG
        > <http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7125.JPG>
        > http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7126.JPG
        > <http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7126.JPG>
        > http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7127.JPG
        > <http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7127.JPG>
        > http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7128.JPG
        > <http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7128.JPG>
        >
        > 1-Load these into PTGui
        > 2-In Advanced, go to Lens Settings, Lens type: Circular. / Horizontal
        > Field of View: 197
        > 3-In Project Assistant click on the Crop Tap and Crop the image where
        > your removing just a little of it.
        > 4-Back to Project Assistant and click Align images, most likely your
        > going to have add some control points here. then click optimize.
        > 5-In Edit Panorama look up at the tool bar and find 123, you may have
        > to change the Pitch if the photo looks sideways or upside down, I put
        > 90 in the Pitch box and click Apply 1 or 2 times when needed. If the
        > photo is already right side up then in the tool bar use the + button
        > to Center Panorama. With a few clicks you should have it level.
        > 6-You may need to go back and add some more Control Points at this
        > point if the stitching looks off.
        > 7- Create Panorama, for Blending use Smartblend, it works best for
        > this type of pano.
        >
        > I'm sure there are other ways of doing this, but this way works good
        > for me.
        >
        > Roger Berry
        > IndiaVRtours.com
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • PanoToolsNG.10.m8@spamgourmet.com
        Thanks Roger, Was nice to look over your shoot. Interestingly, from the shadow on the elephant, it looks like your rig on the end of the pole is huge!
        Message 3 of 29 , Nov 10, 2009
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          Thanks Roger,
          Was nice to look over your shoot.

          Interestingly, from the shadow on the elephant, it looks like your rig on
          the end of the pole is huge!
          (probably a trick of lighting)

          If you don't mind, I'd interesed in seeing a photo of your rig, setup on the
          end of your pole.

          Quentin,
          I've usually not had a problem with shutter speed, except in very low light
          environments, as the fisheye tends to bring in a much larger amount of light
          than a normal lens.
          Perhaps you are setting your aperture too small?

          Cheers,
          Darren.


          )-----Original Message-----
          )From: Quentin Desouza
          )
          )Thanks Very much Roger,
          )The images have cleared up my doubts and I can now see the
          )correct angle
          )of rotation.
          )I shall follow your instructions and try assembling them and
          )try and get
          )the elephants right side up :)
          )You must use a very fast shutter speed so that there is no blur at all!
          )Most of my trials have resulted in a blur and I have had to ask people
          )to stay absolutely still.
          )specially in lowlight conditions we have been shooting at 200
          )ISO, so I
          )have had long exposures resulting in "movement" and blurs. I
          )think that
          )by raising the ISO to 800 + the shutter speed can be increased
          )considerably do you think this would make the image grainy ?
          )Thanks again,
          )Quentin.
          )
          )
          )onezebra1 wrote:
          )
          )>
          )>
          )> Hi Quentin,
          )> I shoot saving the images in RAW and Low Quality JPG.
          )> Here are 4 of them in LQ JPG for you to play with, of coarse
        • Quentin Desouza
          Thanks Darren, Could you tell me what is the shutter speed that you use? The camera used is a Nikon D300 digital single lens reflex with Nikon AF
          Message 4 of 29 , Nov 10, 2009
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            Thanks Darren,
            Could you tell me what is the shutter speed that you use?
            The camera used is a Nikon D300 digital single lens reflex
            with Nikon AF Fisheye-Nikkor 10.5mm f/2.8G IF-ED DX
            The reason I am asking is that I still get some shots blurred when
            people have moved in indoors low light situations.
            That is why I thought of raising the ISO above 800 but I have not tried
            it yet.
            Quentin.


            PanoToolsNG.10.m8@... wrote:

            >
            >
            > Thanks Roger,
            > Was nice to look over your shoot.
            >
            > Interestingly, from the shadow on the elephant, it looks like your rig on
            > the end of the pole is huge!
            > (probably a trick of lighting)
            >
            > If you don't mind, I'd interesed in seeing a photo of your rig, setup
            > on the
            > end of your pole.
            >
            > Quentin,
            > I've usually not had a problem with shutter speed, except in very low
            > light
            > environments, as the fisheye tends to bring in a much larger amount of
            > light
            > than a normal lens.
            > Perhaps you are setting your aperture too small?
            >
            > Cheers,
            > Darren.
            >
            > )-----Original Message-----
            > )From: Quentin Desouza
            > )
            > )Thanks Very much Roger,
            > )The images have cleared up my doubts and I can now see the
            > )correct angle
            > )of rotation.
            > )I shall follow your instructions and try assembling them and
            > )try and get
            > )the elephants right side up :)
            > )You must use a very fast shutter speed so that there is no blur at all!
            > )Most of my trials have resulted in a blur and I have had to ask people
            > )to stay absolutely still.
            > )specially in lowlight conditions we have been shooting at 200
            > )ISO, so I
            > )have had long exposures resulting in "movement" and blurs. I
            > )think that
            > )by raising the ISO to 800 + the shutter speed can be increased
            > )considerably do you think this would make the image grainy ?
            > )Thanks again,
            > )Quentin.
            > )
            > )
            > )onezebra1 wrote:
            > )
            > )>
            > )>
            > )> Hi Quentin,
            > )> I shoot saving the images in RAW and Low Quality JPG.
            > )> Here are 4 of them in LQ JPG for you to play with, of coarse
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • PanoToolsNG.10.m8@spamgourmet.com
            You re correct, I haven t done many indoor panos, and am aware of movement then. Outdoors I ll set between F4 and F8. Hmmm, I ve been considering getting the
            Message 5 of 29 , Nov 10, 2009
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              You're correct, I haven't done many indoor panos, and am aware of movement
              then.
              Outdoors I'll set between F4 and F8.

              Hmmm, I've been considering getting the D300(I have to convince the holder
              of the purse strings!!).
              With the relatively low noise of the D300, you could probably push the ISO a
              bit more.

              It may be worth you doing a couple tests, going right up the scale, so you
              have an idea of where the noise becomes unacceptable for you.

              Cheers,
              Darren.

              )-----Original Message-----
              )From: Quentin Desouza
              )
              )Thanks Darren,
              )Could you tell me what is the shutter speed that you use?
              )The camera used is a Nikon D300 digital single lens reflex
              )with Nikon AF Fisheye-Nikkor 10.5mm f/2.8G IF-ED DX The reason
              )I am asking is that I still get some shots blurred when people
              )have moved in indoors low light situations.
              )That is why I thought of raising the ISO above 800 but I have
              )not tried it yet.
              )Quentin.
              )
              )
              )PanoToolsNG.10.m8@... wrote:
              )
              )>
              )>
              )> Quentin,
              )> I've usually not had a problem with shutter speed, except in
              )very low
              )> light environments, as the fisheye tends to bring in a much larger
              )> amount of light than a normal lens.
              )> Perhaps you are setting your aperture too small?
              )>
            • Quentin Desouza
              Hi Darren, I have uploaded a set of images of a restaurant to show you what I mean The images and path is given below: The image I use to knock off the
              Message 6 of 29 , Nov 11, 2009
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                Hi Darren,

                I have uploaded a set of images of a restaurant to show you what I mean
                The images and path is given below:


                The image I use to knock off the tripod
                http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/boulevard/img_9.JPG

                Nadir Image
                http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/boulevard/img_8.JPG

                Zenith Image
                http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/boulevard/img_7.JPG

                Rest are images shot at an interval of 30 degrees separation
                horizontally. Camera in Portrait mode.
                In Image 2 and 3 the blurring effect is most noticeable.
                Exif data should be available with the images so the settings used
                should be available.

                http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/boulevard/img_6.JPG
                http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/boulevard/img_5.JPG
                http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/boulevard/img_4.JPG
                http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/boulevard/img_3.JPG
                http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/boulevard/img_2.JPG
                http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/boulevard/img_1.JPG

                Please let me know where I am going wrong.

                Quentin.
              • PanoToolsNG.10.m8@spamgourmet.com
                Certainly, 0.7s isn t going to stop that sort of movement and you will need a faster shutter speed. Upping the ISO as you mentioned earlier is one way to
                Message 7 of 29 , Nov 11, 2009
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                  Certainly, 0.7s isn't going to stop that sort of movement and you will need
                  a faster shutter speed.

                  Upping the ISO as you mentioned earlier is one way to improve the shutter, I
                  also mentioned that doing a number of test panos with various ISOs perhaps
                  even to the ISO ceiling will give you an idea what your camera and rig is
                  capable of in terms of noise. That is the main reason you want to keep the
                  ISO down. In low light conditions you need to choose a trade off between a
                  few things(noise / shutter speed / DOF)

                  The other thing you could try is to increase your aperture(decrease your F
                  stop), letting in more light also allows a faster shutter speed. You then
                  'may' have to consider your depth of field(DOF).

                  I hope this helps you.

                  Cheers,
                  Darren.


                  )-----Original Message-----
                  )From: Quentin Desouza
                  )
                  )Hi Darren,
                  )
                  )I have uploaded a set of images of a restaurant to show you
                  )what I mean
                  )
                  )Please let me know where I am going wrong.
                  )
                  )Quentin.
                  )
                • Quentin Desouza
                  Thanks for all the Help Darren, I am going to try out all the various combinations that you suggested. Depth of field was what I was also trying to maximize. I
                  Message 8 of 29 , Nov 11, 2009
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                    Thanks for all the Help Darren,
                    I am going to try out all the various combinations that you suggested.
                    Depth of field was what I was also trying to maximize.
                    I have been aspiring to achieve that clarity for both very near and far
                    objects that Roger Berry has always achieved.
                    My panoramas don't come anywhere close.
                    I also cant understand how he manages in just four shots what I cant do
                    in nine :(
                    I have almost completed stitching the four samples he sent me of the
                    elephants and will put it up tomorrow.
                    There are a few problems with breaks in the bridge and the people
                    getting spliced which I intend to solve today by putting a few more
                    control points.
                    There was a problem with the horizon becoming a S lying on its side but
                    that I managed to straighten by using horizontal lines as control points.
                    Thanks again.
                    Quentin.

                    PanoToolsNG.10.m8@... wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Certainly, 0.7s isn't going to stop that sort of movement and you will
                    > need
                    > a faster shutter speed.
                    >
                    > Upping the ISO as you mentioned earlier is one way to improve the
                    > shutter, I
                    > also mentioned that doing a number of test panos with various ISOs perhaps
                    > even to the ISO ceiling will give you an idea what your camera and rig is
                    > capable of in terms of noise. That is the main reason you want to keep the
                    > ISO down. In low light conditions you need to choose a trade off between a
                    > few things(noise / shutter speed / DOF)
                    >
                    > The other thing you could try is to increase your aperture(decrease your F
                    > stop), letting in more light also allows a faster shutter speed. You then
                    > 'may' have to consider your depth of field(DOF).
                    >
                    > I hope this helps you.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > Darren.
                    >
                    > )-----Original Message-----
                    > )From: Quentin Desouza
                    > )
                    > )Hi Darren,
                    > )
                    > )I have uploaded a set of images of a restaurant to show you
                    > )what I mean
                    > )
                    > )Please let me know where I am going wrong.
                    > )
                    > )Quentin.
                    > )
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • onezebra1
                    In PTGui make sure to use Smartblend, install it if you don t already have it, this will help a lot for a busy pano like this. With the horizon becoming a S
                    Message 9 of 29 , Nov 11, 2009
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                      In PTGui make sure to use Smartblend, install it if you don't already have it, this will help a lot for a busy pano like this.
                      With the horizon becoming a S lying on its side I use the Set Center Point tool and click on the high part of the S where I think the center should be, usually a few clicks and I have it looking fairly good. After this I look for stitching errors and add more control points.
                      I manually added control points under the corners of the bridge and supports.
                      After creating the panorama I had to do a small alignment adjustment on the bridge using PhotoShop.

                      Roger Berry
                      IndiaVRtours.com



                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Quentin Desouza <quentin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks for all the Help Darren,
                      > I am going to try out all the various combinations that you suggested.
                      > Depth of field was what I was also trying to maximize.
                      > I have been aspiring to achieve that clarity for both very near and far
                      > objects that Roger Berry has always achieved.
                      > My panoramas don't come anywhere close.
                      > I also cant understand how he manages in just four shots what I cant do
                      > in nine :(
                      > I have almost completed stitching the four samples he sent me of the
                      > elephants and will put it up tomorrow.
                      > There are a few problems with breaks in the bridge and the people
                      > getting spliced which I intend to solve today by putting a few more
                      > control points.
                      > There was a problem with the horizon becoming a S lying on its side but
                      > that I managed to straighten by using horizontal lines as control points.
                      > Thanks again.
                      > Quentin.
                      >
                    • Quentin Desouza
                      Thanks Roger, I will follow your advice and put it up for your inspection by today evening. I may not achieve your perfection but I sure will try :) Getting
                      Message 10 of 29 , Nov 11, 2009
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                        Thanks Roger,
                        I will follow your advice and put it up for your inspection by today
                        evening.
                        I may not achieve your perfection but I sure will try :)
                        Getting those great pictures to work with gives me a good start.
                        Regards,
                        Quentin.


                        onezebra1 wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > In PTGui make sure to use Smartblend, install it if you don't already
                        > have it, this will help a lot for a busy pano like this.
                        > With the horizon becoming a S lying on its side I use the Set Center
                        > Point tool and click on the high part of the S where I think the
                        > center should be, usually a few clicks and I have it looking fairly
                        > good. After this I look for stitching errors and add more control points.
                        > I manually added control points under the corners of the bridge and
                        > supports.
                        > After creating the panorama I had to do a small alignment adjustment
                        > on the bridge using PhotoShop.
                        >
                        > Roger Berry
                        > IndiaVRtours.com
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Quentin Desouza <quentin@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for all the Help Darren,
                        > > I am going to try out all the various combinations that you suggested.
                        > > Depth of field was what I was also trying to maximize.
                        > > I have been aspiring to achieve that clarity for both very near and far
                        > > objects that Roger Berry has always achieved.
                        > > My panoramas don't come anywhere close.
                        > > I also cant understand how he manages in just four shots what I cant do
                        > > in nine :(
                        > > I have almost completed stitching the four samples he sent me of the
                        > > elephants and will put it up tomorrow.
                        > > There are a few problems with breaks in the bridge and the people
                        > > getting spliced which I intend to solve today by putting a few more
                        > > control points.
                        > > There was a problem with the horizon becoming a S lying on its side but
                        > > that I managed to straighten by using horizontal lines as control
                        > points.
                        > > Thanks again.
                        > > Quentin.
                        > >
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Quentin Desouza
                        Hi Roger, I finally completed the task, not very good I am afraid, but I managed to stitch it !! You can see the results of my efforts here :-
                        Message 11 of 29 , Nov 16, 2009
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                          Hi Roger,
                          I finally completed the task, not very good I am afraid, but I managed
                          to stitch it !!
                          You can see the results of my efforts here :-
                          http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/elephant/
                          The water at the point the new Nadir is a bit distorted among other things.
                          I used PTGUI Pro and smartblend.
                          Please let me have your comments.


                          onezebra1 wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Quentin,
                          > I shoot saving the images in RAW and Low Quality JPG.
                          > Here are 4 of them in LQ JPG for you to play with, of coarse with the
                          > RAW ones I would be doing some adjustments like tweaking the
                          > Temperature, Fill Light, Clarity and whatever else I feel is needed.
                          >
                          > http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7125.JPG
                          > <http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7125.JPG>
                          > http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7126.JPG
                          > <http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7126.JPG>
                          > http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7127.JPG
                          > <http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7127.JPG>
                          > http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7128.JPG
                          > <http://indiavrtours.com/pic/IMG_7128.JPG>
                          >
                          > 1-Load these into PTGui
                          > 2-In Advanced, go to Lens Settings, Lens type: Circular. / Horizontal
                          > Field of View: 197
                          > 3-In Project Assistant click on the Crop Tap and Crop the image where
                          > your removing just a little of it.
                          > 4-Back to Project Assistant and click Align images, most likely your
                          > going to have add some control points here. then click optimize.
                          > 5-In Edit Panorama look up at the tool bar and find 123, you may have
                          > to change the Pitch if the photo looks sideways or upside down, I put
                          > 90 in the Pitch box and click Apply 1 or 2 times when needed. If the
                          > photo is already right side up then in the tool bar use the + button
                          > to Center Panorama. With a few clicks you should have it level.
                          > 6-You may need to go back and add some more Control Points at this
                          > point if the stitching looks off.
                          > 7- Create Panorama, for Blending use Smartblend, it works best for
                          > this type of pano.
                          >
                          > I'm sure there are other ways of doing this, but this way works good
                          > for me.
                          >
                          > Roger Berry
                          > IndiaVRtours.com
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • onezebra1
                          Hi Quentin, Not bad for working with your first sideways shot photo. With a little Photoshop work it would be easy to fix the small stitching errors like on
                          Message 12 of 29 , Nov 16, 2009
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                            Hi Quentin,

                            Not bad for working with your first sideways shot photo.
                            With a little Photoshop work it would be easy to fix the small stitching errors like on the elephant's rear end and the river bank on the far side.
                            The way I fix most stitching errors is to use the Polygonal Lasso tool around the problem spot. Then in Layer select Duplicate Layer. Go to Edit, Transform, Distort and adjust the layer to fix the stitching error. Use the Eraser Tool around the edges or wherever you like before hitting Flatten Image.
                            I also use some of the other tools in Transform but most of the time it's just the Distort tool.

                            I'm sure there are many other way of fixing these stitching errors, but this way works good for me.

                            Roger Berry
                            IndiaVRtours.com



                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Quentin Desouza <quentin@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Roger,
                            > I finally completed the task, not very good I am afraid, but I managed
                            > to stitch it !!
                            > You can see the results of my efforts here :-
                            > http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/elephant/
                            > The water at the point the new Nadir is a bit distorted among other things.
                            > I used PTGUI Pro and smartblend.
                            > Please let me have your comments.
                            >
                            >
                          • Quentin Desouza
                            Thanks for the advice Roger, I shall improve and upload again. I have just completed a set of Panaromas for the Orchid hotel here in Mumbai. The photos have
                            Message 13 of 29 , Nov 16, 2009
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                              Thanks for the advice Roger,
                              I shall improve and upload again.
                              I have just completed a set of Panaromas for the Orchid hotel here in
                              Mumbai.
                              The photos have been taken at 30 deg angles as accurately as possible.
                              I fabricated a jig for this purpose with ball catch stops at 30 degrees
                              intervals.
                              The pano head I made, images are uploaded at
                              http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_1.jpg
                              http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_2.jpg
                              I do not know how you do it with only four images. I need nine.
                              six horizontally at 30 deg separation, one upwards +90 one down -90 and
                              one down without the tripod at the nadir.
                              you can see the result at :-
                              http://orchidhotel.com/mumbai_hotels/360perspective.htm

                              Regards,
                              Quentin.


                              onezebra1 wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Quentin,
                              >
                              > Not bad for working with your first sideways shot photo.
                              > With a little Photoshop work it would be easy to fix the small
                              > stitching errors like on the elephant's rear end and the river bank on
                              > the far side.
                              > The way I fix most stitching errors is to use the Polygonal Lasso tool
                              > around the problem spot. Then in Layer select Duplicate Layer. Go to
                              > Edit, Transform, Distort and adjust the layer to fix the stitching
                              > error. Use the Eraser Tool around the edges or wherever you like
                              > before hitting Flatten Image.
                              > I also use some of the other tools in Transform but most of the time
                              > it's just the Distort tool.
                              >
                              > I'm sure there are many other way of fixing these stitching errors,
                              > but this way works good for me.
                              >
                              > Roger Berry
                              > IndiaVRtours.com
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Quentin Desouza <quentin@...>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hi Roger,
                              > > I finally completed the task, not very good I am afraid, but I managed
                              > > to stitch it !!
                              > > You can see the results of my efforts here :-
                              > > http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/elephant/
                              > <http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/elephant/>
                              > > The water at the point the new Nadir is a bit distorted among other
                              > things.
                              > > I used PTGUI Pro and smartblend.
                              > > Please let me have your comments.
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Sacha Griffin
                              Ouch. They all need some serious leveling/straightening. If you drop a pencil you d never find it again, it seems. Easy fix though, you should be able to
                              Message 14 of 29 , Nov 17, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Ouch.

                                They all need some serious leveling/straightening.

                                If you drop a pencil you'd never find it again, it seems.

                                Easy fix though, you should be able to correct all of them in an hour or so.

                                If you didn't do your retouching on the final cube faces that is.





                                Sacha Griffin

                                Southern Digital Solutions LLC

                                http://www.southern-digital.com

                                http://www.seeit360.net

                                GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@...

                                404-551-4275





                                From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of Quentin Desouza
                                Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:31 AM
                                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui Stitching when shooting at odd angles





                                Thanks for the advice Roger,
                                I shall improve and upload again.
                                I have just completed a set of Panaromas for the Orchid hotel here in
                                Mumbai.
                                The photos have been taken at 30 deg angles as accurately as possible.
                                I fabricated a jig for this purpose with ball catch stops at 30 degrees
                                intervals.
                                The pano head I made, images are uploaded at
                                http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_1.jpg
                                http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_2.jpg
                                I do not know how you do it with only four images. I need nine.
                                six horizontally at 30 deg separation, one upwards +90 one down -90 and
                                one down without the tripod at the nadir.
                                you can see the result at :-
                                http://orchidhotel.com/mumbai_hotels/360perspective.htm

                                Regards,
                                Quentin.





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Quentin Desouza
                                No retouching was done on the cube faces. What is the method to do the levelling ? How to check when they are truly level? Regards, Quentin. ... [Non-text
                                Message 15 of 29 , Nov 17, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  No retouching was done on the cube faces.
                                  What is the method to do the levelling ?
                                  How to check when they are truly level?
                                  Regards,
                                  Quentin.


                                  Sacha Griffin wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Ouch.
                                  >
                                  > They all need some serious leveling/straightening.
                                  >
                                  > If you drop a pencil you'd never find it again, it seems.
                                  >
                                  > Easy fix though, you should be able to correct all of them in an hour
                                  > or so.
                                  >
                                  > If you didn't do your retouching on the final cube faces that is.
                                  >
                                  > Sacha Griffin
                                  >
                                  > Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                                  >
                                  > http://www.southern-digital.com <http://www.southern-digital.com>
                                  >
                                  > http://www.seeit360.net <http://www.seeit360.net>
                                  >
                                  > GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@... <mailto:sachagriffin007%40gmail.com>
                                  >
                                  > 404-551-4275
                                  >
                                  > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                                  > Behalf Of Quentin Desouza
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:31 AM
                                  > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui Stitching when shooting at odd angles
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for the advice Roger,
                                  > I shall improve and upload again.
                                  > I have just completed a set of Panaromas for the Orchid hotel here in
                                  > Mumbai.
                                  > The photos have been taken at 30 deg angles as accurately as possible.
                                  > I fabricated a jig for this purpose with ball catch stops at 30 degrees
                                  > intervals.
                                  > The pano head I made, images are uploaded at
                                  > http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_1.jpg
                                  > <http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_1.jpg>
                                  > http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_2.jpg
                                  > <http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_2.jpg>
                                  > I do not know how you do it with only four images. I need nine.
                                  > six horizontally at 30 deg separation, one upwards +90 one down -90 and
                                  > one down without the tripod at the nadir.
                                  > you can see the result at :-
                                  > http://orchidhotel.com/mumbai_hotels/360perspective.htm
                                  > <http://orchidhotel.com/mumbai_hotels/360perspective.htm>
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  > Quentin.
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Sacha Griffin
                                  Your walls and wall lines are tilted way out of wack, making it seem like if you were to drop a bag of marbles they would roll right into a corner. You must
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Nov 17, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Your walls and wall lines are tilted way out of wack, making it seem like if
                                    you were to drop a bag of marbles they would roll right into a corner.



                                    You must load each 360 photo into your program of choice and place vertical
                                    control points on 3 or more vertical lines and re-output the correct
                                    panorama.





                                    Sacha Griffin

                                    Southern Digital Solutions LLC

                                    http://www.southern-digital.com

                                    http://www.seeit360.net

                                    GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@...

                                    404-551-4275









                                    From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    Behalf Of Quentin Desouza
                                    Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:20 PM
                                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui Stitching when shooting at odd angles





                                    No retouching was done on the cube faces.
                                    What is the method to do the levelling ?
                                    How to check when they are truly level?
                                    Regards,
                                    Quentin.







                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Quentin Desouza
                                    Thanks Sacha, I use Ptgui pro. Do I need to place horizontal lines too ? What are t3 points I have seen them discussed on this forum. Quentin Desouza. ...
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Nov 17, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Thanks Sacha,
                                      I use Ptgui pro. Do I need to place horizontal lines too ?
                                      What are t3 points I have seen them discussed on this forum.

                                      Quentin Desouza.



                                      Sacha Griffin wrote:

                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Your walls and wall lines are tilted way out of wack, making it seem
                                      > like if
                                      > you were to drop a bag of marbles they would roll right into a corner.
                                      >
                                      > You must load each 360 photo into your program of choice and place
                                      > vertical
                                      > control points on 3 or more vertical lines and re-output the correct
                                      > panorama.
                                      >
                                      > Sacha Griffin
                                      >
                                      > Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                                      >
                                      > http://www.southern-digital.com <http://www.southern-digital.com>
                                      >
                                      > http://www.seeit360.net <http://www.seeit360.net>
                                      >
                                      > GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@... <mailto:sachagriffin007%40gmail.com>
                                      >
                                      > 404-551-4275
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • onezebra1
                                      The thing that helped me the most for leveling panos with PTGui was going from a 17 inch monitor to a 23 inch widescreen one. The other big thing that sure
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Nov 17, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        The thing that helped me the most for leveling panos with PTGui was going from a 17 inch monitor to a 23 inch widescreen one.
                                        The other big thing that sure made it easer was going from shooting with 16 images to only 4 using a good fisheye lens.

                                        Roger Berry
                                        IndiaVRtours.com
                                      • Ron Rack
                                        Also, if for some reason you can t find anything vertical to set control points on you can call up the adjustable grid to overlay your pano by going to the
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Nov 17, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Also, if for some reason you can't find anything vertical to set
                                          control points on you can call up the adjustable grid to overlay your
                                          pano by going to the "Panorama Editor" in PTGui and looking right
                                          under the pano preview and find the little tiny clear/white triangle
                                          thing and drag that to the right and adjust the grid to line things up
                                          by "hand" if you want.

                                          ron rack
                                          http://360around.com




                                          On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:01 AM, onezebra1 wrote:

                                          > The thing that helped me the most for leveling panos with PTGui was
                                          > going from a 17 inch monitor to a 23 inch widescreen one.
                                          > The other big thing that sure made it easer was going from shooting
                                          > with 16 images to only 4 using a good fisheye lens.
                                          >
                                          > Roger Berry
                                          > IndiaVRtours.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Quentin Desouza
                                          Thanks Roger, I will try this out. Which lens do you recommend? I tried all the permutations and combinations with the Nikon AF Fisheye-Nikkor 10.5mm f/2.8G
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Nov 17, 2009
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Thanks Roger,
                                            I will try this out.
                                            Which lens do you recommend?
                                            I tried all the permutations and combinations with the Nikon AF
                                            Fisheye-Nikkor 10.5mm f/2.8G IF-ED DX
                                            but I still need the 9 shots to get decent coverage.
                                            Regards,
                                            Quentin Desouza

                                            onezebra1 wrote:

                                            >
                                            >
                                            > The thing that helped me the most for leveling panos with PTGui was
                                            > going from a 17 inch monitor to a 23 inch widescreen one.
                                            > The other big thing that sure made it easer was going from shooting
                                            > with 16 images to only 4 using a good fisheye lens.
                                            >
                                            > Roger Berry
                                            > IndiaVRtours.com
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Quentin Desouza
                                            Thanks a lot I will try it. I am really learning so much being on this list. Quentin Desouza ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Nov 17, 2009
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Thanks a lot I will try it.
                                              I am really learning so much being on this list.
                                              Quentin Desouza

                                              Ron Rack wrote:

                                              >Also, if for some reason you can't find anything vertical to set
                                              >control points on you can call up the adjustable grid to overlay your
                                              >pano by going to the "Panorama Editor" in PTGui and looking right
                                              >under the pano preview and find the little tiny clear/white triangle
                                              >thing and drag that to the right and adjust the grid to line things up
                                              >by "hand" if you want.
                                              >
                                              >ron rack
                                              >http://360around.com
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >On Nov 18, 2009, at 12:01 AM, onezebra1 wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >>The thing that helped me the most for leveling panos with PTGui was
                                              >>going from a 17 inch monitor to a 23 inch widescreen one.
                                              >>The other big thing that sure made it easer was going from shooting
                                              >>with 16 images to only 4 using a good fisheye lens.
                                              >>
                                              >>Roger Berry
                                              >>IndiaVRtours.com
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Richard C. Gillespie
                                              try adjusting photos before stitching??: http://epaperpress.com/ptlens/
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Nov 18, 2009
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                try adjusting photos before stitching??: http://epaperpress.com/ptlens/
                                              • Sacha Griffin
                                                Never! Your lens adjustments will be much much more accurate in your stitching program. While you may get decent results, you ve only added another step of
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Nov 18, 2009
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Never!

                                                  Your lens adjustments will be much much more accurate in your stitching
                                                  program.

                                                  While you may get decent results, you've only added another step of
                                                  degradation.





                                                  Sacha Griffin

                                                  Southern Digital Solutions LLC

                                                  http://www.southern-digital.com

                                                  http://www.seeit360.net

                                                  GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@...

                                                  404-551-4275



                                                  From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                  Behalf Of Richard C. Gillespie
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:44 AM
                                                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui Stitching when shooting at odd angles





                                                  try adjusting photos before stitching??: http://epaperpress.com/ptlens/



                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Richard C. Gillespie
                                                  I am new to this. I have not gotten to this point of correction. Just thought I would ask. Richard ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Nov 18, 2009
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I am new to this.
                                                    I have not gotten to this point of correction.
                                                    Just thought I would ask.
                                                    Richard

                                                    On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:31 AM, Sacha Griffin wrote:

                                                    > Never!
                                                    >
                                                    > Your lens adjustments will be much much more accurate in your
                                                    > stitching
                                                    > program.
                                                    >
                                                    > While you may get decent results, you've only added another step of
                                                    > degradation.
                                                    >
                                                    > Sacha Griffin
                                                    >
                                                    > Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                                                    >
                                                    > http://www.southern-digital.com
                                                    >
                                                    > http://www.seeit360.net
                                                    >
                                                    > GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@...
                                                    >
                                                    > 404-551-4275
                                                    >
                                                    > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                    > Behalf Of Richard C. Gillespie
                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:44 AM
                                                    > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui Stitching when shooting at odd
                                                    > angles
                                                    >
                                                    > try adjusting photos before stitching??: http://epaperpress.com/
                                                    > ptlens/
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Quentin Desouza
                                                    Hello Sacha, I have straightened the panoramas, specifically for Executive Room and Club Privé which had a major problem as you pointed out. Could you please
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Nov 25, 2009
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Hello Sacha,
                                                      I have straightened the panoramas, specifically for Executive Room and
                                                      Club Privé which had a major problem as you pointed out.
                                                      Could you please go through them again and point out any more defects.
                                                      Regards,
                                                      Quentin.


                                                      Sacha Griffin wrote:

                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Ouch.
                                                      >
                                                      > They all need some serious leveling/straightening.
                                                      >
                                                      > If you drop a pencil you'd never find it again, it seems.
                                                      >
                                                      > Easy fix though, you should be able to correct all of them in an hour
                                                      > or so.
                                                      >
                                                      > If you didn't do your retouching on the final cube faces that is.
                                                      >
                                                      > Sacha Griffin
                                                      >
                                                      > Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                                                      >
                                                      > http://www.southern-digital.com <http://www.southern-digital.com>
                                                      >
                                                      > http://www.seeit360.net <http://www.seeit360.net>
                                                      >
                                                      > GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@... <mailto:sachagriffin007%40gmail.com>
                                                      >
                                                      > 404-551-4275
                                                      >
                                                      > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                                                      > Behalf Of Quentin Desouza
                                                      > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:31 AM
                                                      > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui Stitching when shooting at odd angles
                                                      >
                                                      > Thanks for the advice Roger,
                                                      > I shall improve and upload again.
                                                      > I have just completed a set of Panaromas for the Orchid hotel here in
                                                      > Mumbai.
                                                      > The photos have been taken at 30 deg angles as accurately as possible.
                                                      > I fabricated a jig for this purpose with ball catch stops at 30 degrees
                                                      > intervals.
                                                      > The pano head I made, images are uploaded at
                                                      > http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_1.jpg
                                                      > <http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_1.jpg>
                                                      > http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_2.jpg
                                                      > <http://www.quentind.com/pano_images/slider_bracket_2.jpg>
                                                      > I do not know how you do it with only four images. I need nine.
                                                      > six horizontally at 30 deg separation, one upwards +90 one down -90 and
                                                      > one down without the tripod at the nadir.
                                                      > you can see the result at :-
                                                      > http://orchidhotel.com/mumbai_hotels/360perspective.htm
                                                      > <http://orchidhotel.com/mumbai_hotels/360perspective.htm>
                                                      >
                                                      > Regards,
                                                      > Quentin.
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      >



                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • Sacha Griffin
                                                      These still need to be replaced. Lobby Deluxe Orch Suite Living Pres Bed Press Bath images/sopt_img2.png I’d also do a circular select and ensure that its
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Nov 26, 2009
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        These still need to be replaced.

                                                        Lobby

                                                        Deluxe

                                                        Orch Suite Living

                                                        Pres Bed

                                                        Press Bath



                                                        images/sopt_img2.png



                                                        I’d also do a circular select and ensure that its edges are circular not
                                                        square. It’d look a bit better.



                                                        A minor thought.

                                                        I think instead of have two tours with two qualities, you could use your low
                                                        quality images as a preview, and load the high resolution over it
                                                        transparently.

                                                        Then you wouldn’t need but one xml file.

                                                        See most of my recent tours for how this is done.





                                                        Sacha Griffin

                                                        Southern Digital Solutions LLC

                                                        http://www.southern-digital.com

                                                        http://www.seeit360.net

                                                        GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@...

                                                        404-551-4275









                                                        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                        Behalf Of Quentin Desouza
                                                        Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:55 PM
                                                        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui Stitching when shooting at odd angles





                                                        Hello Sacha,
                                                        I have straightened the panoramas, specifically for Executive Room and
                                                        Club Privé which had a major problem as you pointed out.
                                                        Could you please go through them again and point out any more defects.
                                                        Regards,
                                                        Quentin.

                                                        Sacha Griffin wrote:





                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Quentin Desouza
                                                        Thanks very much Sacha. Please explain the Circular select bit ? Quentin. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Nov 26, 2009
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Thanks very much Sacha.
                                                          Please explain the Circular select bit ?
                                                          Quentin.



                                                          Sacha Griffin wrote:

                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > These still need to be replaced.
                                                          >
                                                          > Lobby
                                                          >
                                                          > Deluxe
                                                          >
                                                          > Orch Suite Living
                                                          >
                                                          > Pres Bed
                                                          >
                                                          > Press Bath
                                                          >
                                                          > images/sopt_img2.png
                                                          >
                                                          > I'd also do a circular select and ensure that its edges are circular not
                                                          > square. It'd look a bit better.
                                                          >
                                                          > A minor thought.
                                                          >
                                                          > I think instead of have two tours with two qualities, you could use
                                                          > your low
                                                          > quality images as a preview, and load the high resolution over it
                                                          > transparently.
                                                          >
                                                          > Then you wouldn't need but one xml file.
                                                          >
                                                          > See most of my recent tours for how this is done.
                                                          >
                                                          > Sacha Griffin
                                                          >
                                                          > Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                                                          >
                                                          > http://www.southern-digital.com <http://www.southern-digital.com>
                                                          >
                                                          > http://www.seeit360.net <http://www.seeit360.net>
                                                          >
                                                          > GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@... <mailto:sachagriffin007%40gmail.com>
                                                          >
                                                          > 404-551-4275
                                                          >
                                                          > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                                                          > Behalf Of Quentin Desouza
                                                          > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:55 PM
                                                          > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui Stitching when shooting at odd angles
                                                          >
                                                          > Hello Sacha,
                                                          > I have straightened the panoramas, specifically for Executive Room and
                                                          > Club Privé which had a major problem as you pointed out.
                                                          > Could you please go through them again and point out any more defects.
                                                          > Regards,
                                                          > Quentin.
                                                          >
                                                          > Sacha Griffin wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          >
                                                          >



                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        • Sacha Griffin
                                                          Your circular hostspot image has a shadow that extends to the edge of the canvas, in effect your circle has a square shadow. Sacha Griffin Southern Digital
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Nov 26, 2009
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            Your circular hostspot image has a shadow that extends to the edge of the
                                                            canvas, in effect your circle has a square shadow.





                                                            Sacha Griffin

                                                            Southern Digital Solutions LLC

                                                            http://www.southern-digital.com

                                                            http://www.seeit360.net

                                                            GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@...

                                                            404-551-4275







                                                            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                            Behalf Of Quentin Desouza
                                                            Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 10:42 AM
                                                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui Stitching when shooting at odd angles





                                                            Thanks very much Sacha.
                                                            Please explain the Circular select bit ?
                                                            Quentin.





                                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          • CW
                                                            I intend to upgrade my laptop with W7 and a SSD. I d appreciate any comments about the Runcore PRO, which Sacha Griffin suggested was her preferred choice.
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Nov 30, 2009
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              I intend to upgrade my laptop with W7 and a SSD. I'd appreciate any comments
                                                              about the Runcore PRO, which Sacha Griffin suggested was her preferred
                                                              choice.



                                                              Thanks in advance.

                                                              Colin



                                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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