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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Sigma 4.5mm on FourThirds or MFT (using adapter etc)?

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  • Bjørn K Nilssen
    ... There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider Might be a good choice? Here s a white paper on using it on th E-P1
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
      On 3 Nov 2009 at 0:13, bohonus wrote:

      >
      >
      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
      >
      > > However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
      > > found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
      > > ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
      > > 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
      > >
      > > Roger
      >
      > I got the GF1 as a carry-around camera and also to use on a Gigapan unit. I thought it
      > could be nice if I could also use it to knock off a quick handheld or monopod pano
      > when I don't have my "regular" vr gear with me.

      There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
      Might be a good choice?
      Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
      http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
      Looks good to me!
      And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.

      --
      Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
    • Roger D. Williams
      ... Now there s a point I d forgotten! I have several very nice Leica-mount Cosina lenses, astonishingly good value and beautiful image quality that worked
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
        On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:54:41 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:

        > Don't forget to consider the nice lenses (e.g. Leica etc) that you can
        > now use with the GF1.

        Now there's a point I'd forgotten! I have several very nice Leica-mount
        Cosina lenses, astonishingly good value and beautiful image quality
        that worked well for me when I used only rangefinder/film cameras. It
        would be nice to give them a second lease of life. But my favourite
        21mm would become a 42mm equivalent, and that's way up in the telephoto
        range for me. <grin>

        But the adapters cost as much as I used to pay for lenses... <sad smile>

        Roger W.


        --
        Business: www.adex-japan.com
        Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
      • Roger D. Williams
        Oh I see, Ken. I didn t understand your suggestion. Yes, of course you re right on that. If they use the same innards they would presumably suffer from the
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
          Oh I see, Ken. I didn't understand your suggestion. Yes, of course you're
          right on that. If they use the same innards they would presumably suffer
          from the same limitations.

          Roger W.

          On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:03:37 +0900, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>
          wrote:

          > You mentioned dynamic range as your concern. Wouldn't the dynamic
          > range be the same as the e620?
          >
          > Roger D. Williams wrote:
          >> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:24:17 +0900, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>
          >> wrote:
          >>
          >>> I've read that the Pen is basically an Olympus e620 --
          >>> for whatever that's worth...
          >>>
          >>> Roger D. Williams wrote:
          >>>
          >>>> However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
          >>>> found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
          >>>> ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
          >>>> 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
          >>
          >> Hmmm. Not worth much, I feel. They might well have used some of the same
          >> working parts (foolish not to) but the form factor and user
          >> experience are quite dissimilar.
          >>
          >> Roger W.
          >>
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >


          --
          Business: www.adex-japan.com
          Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
        • bohonus
          ... Ah perfect! I TOTALLY forgot about that Sunex. Thanks Bjørn :) Exactly what I was looking/hoping for to use on my GF1. The fixed aperture and focus is a
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
            > There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
            > Might be a good choice?
            > Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
            > http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
            > Looks good to me!
            > And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.
            >
            > --
            > Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D

            Ah perfect! I TOTALLY forgot about that Sunex. Thanks Bjørn :)

            Exactly what I was looking/hoping for to use on my GF1. The fixed aperture and focus is a nice bonus too and keeps things simple.
          • Ken Warner
            Sounds like a nice system to me also. If I only had the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
              Sounds like a nice system to me also. If I only had the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

              bohonus wrote:
              >
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
              >> There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
              >> Might be a good choice?
              >> Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
              >> http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
              >> Looks good to me!
              >> And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.
              >>
              >> --
              >> Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
              >
              > Ah perfect! I TOTALLY forgot about that Sunex. Thanks Bjørn :)
              >
              > Exactly what I was looking/hoping for to use on my GF1. The fixed aperture and focus is a nice bonus too and keeps things simple.
              >
              >
              >
            • bohonus
              ... Yes I did. I can recover a much larger portion of highlights from my D300 shots in Adobe Camera Raw. The D300 has 14bit A/D conversion though. Can t find
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
                > Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                > with the PEN?
                >
                > Roger W

                Yes I did. I can recover a much larger portion of highlights from my D300 shots in Adobe Camera Raw. The D300 has 14bit A/D conversion though. Can't find the A/D spec for the GF1. Perhaps it is 12bit A/D then? or?

                I wonder how well the in-camera stabilization of the Pen (the GF1 does not have this feature) will work with the Sunex as the whitepaper linked to in the other post did not not mention it. Seems like it could be a nice feature as well when using a monopod or doing handheld.
              • bohonus
                ... I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.
                Message 7 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
                  > Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                  > with the PEN?
                  >
                  > Roger W

                  I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.
                • Ken Warner
                  The test shots go together pretty easy but I think he kicked the tripod on one of the shots. There s some parallax error that shouldn t be there. I d be happy
                  Message 8 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
                    The test shots go together pretty easy but I think he kicked the tripod
                    on one of the shots. There's some parallax error that shouldn't be there.

                    I'd be happy with that setup. Or on the GF1.

                    bohonus wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
                    >> There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
                    >> Might be a good choice?
                    >> Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
                    >> http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
                    >> Looks good to me!
                    >> And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.
                    >>
                    >> --
                    >> Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                    >
                    > Ah perfect! I TOTALLY forgot about that Sunex. Thanks Bjørn :)
                    >
                    > Exactly what I was looking/hoping for to use on my GF1. The fixed aperture and focus is a nice bonus too and keeps things simple.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Roger D. Williams
                    On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:56:45 +0900, Bjørn K Nilssen ... Very interesting and well-written paper. Claims to be impartial, too, which is good.
                    Message 9 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
                      On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:56:45 +0900, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...>
                      wrote:

                      > There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
                      > Might be a good choice?
                      > Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
                      > http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
                      > Looks good to me!
                      > And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a
                      > monopod.

                      Very interesting and well-written paper. Claims to be impartial, too, which
                      is good.

                      I did notice some fairly obvious chromatic aberration that will probably
                      require an extra stage of processing before stitching.

                      And the restricted dynamic range means using HDR, although hopefully the
                      pseudo HDR from RAW files may be enough for many cases.

                      I like the look of their rotator, too.

                      Roger

                      --
                      Business: www.adex-japan.com
                      Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                    • Roger D. Williams
                      ... Hmmm. I ll see if the Japanese camera mag reviews quote that. They do usually give very complete specs. ... Ah, that s another useful feature... at my age
                      Message 10 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
                        On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:09:42 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>
                        > wrote:
                        >> Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                        >> with the PEN?
                        >>
                        >> Roger W
                        >
                        > Yes I did. I can recover a much larger portion of highlights from my
                        > D300 shots in Adobe Camera Raw. The D300 has 14bit A/D conversion
                        > though. Can't find the A/D spec for the GF1. Perhaps it is 12bit A/D
                        > then? or?

                        Hmmm. I'll see if the Japanese camera mag reviews quote that. They do
                        usually give very complete specs.

                        > I wonder how well the in-camera stabilization of the Pen (the GF1 does
                        > not have this feature) will work with the Sunex as the whitepaper linked
                        > to in the other post did not not mention it. Seems like it could be a
                        > nice feature as well when using a monopod or doing handheld.

                        Ah, that's another useful feature... at my age (early 70s) hand shake
                        is becoming an increasing problem. Of course it's less of a problem with
                        a monopod. That maybe why it wasn't mentioned.

                        Where can I find the best price for a Sunex + rotator? The cheaper US$
                        vs. the JPY (my local currency) is making things more affordable.

                        Roger

                        --
                        Business: www.adex-japan.com
                        Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                      • Roger D. Williams
                        ... Oh dear. How wonky? Roger W. -- Business: www.adex-japan.com Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                        Message 11 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
                          On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:14:02 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>
                          > wrote:
                          >> Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                          >> with the PEN?
                          >>
                          >> Roger W
                          >
                          > I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty
                          > wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.

                          Oh dear. How wonky?

                          Roger W.

                          --
                          Business: www.adex-japan.com
                          Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                        • bohonus
                          ... 1. It will do 3,5 & 7 shots which is fine, but only at 1/3 (useless for HDR) and 2/3 EV increments. You have to shoot the full 7 to get the max +/- 2 EV
                          Message 12 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:14:02 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@>
                            > > wrote:
                            > >> Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                            > >> with the PEN?
                            > >>
                            > >> Roger W
                            > >
                            > > I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty
                            > > wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.
                            >
                            > Oh dear. How wonky?
                            >
                            > Roger W.

                            1. It will do 3,5 & 7 shots which is fine, but only at 1/3 (useless for HDR) and 2/3 EV increments. You have to shoot the full 7 to get the max +/- 2 EV out of the brackets.

                            2. The "burst mode" & "bracket mode" are on the same hardware dial (no software switch for it) so you can't just click once and get all the shots unless you hold your finger down the whole time. Being that the GF1 has no mirror slap, this would be a nice burst mode to have.

                            3. This is a weird one that I have yet to run into on any camera-

                            From the manual: "The exposure may not be compensated with Auto Bracket depending on the brightness of the subject."

                            So apparently (as I have not tested this quite yet), the camera will decide on its own if it wants to bracket or not regardless of what you set it to do? I have to find out yet if it skips the frame all together or if it just duplicates it using a previous exposure value.

                            4. Another strange one from the manual:

                            "The Auto Review function is activated regardless of the Auto Review setting".
                          • Hans
                            ... Thanks for that. I have actually referred to to GF1 as having the best AEB of any camera besides 1Ds. This is what DPreview says in the specifications.
                            Message 13 of 26 , Nov 3, 2009
                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "bohonus" <bradford@...> wrote:

                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:14:02 +0900, bohonus <bradford@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@>
                              > > > wrote:
                              > > >> Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                              > > >> with the PEN?
                              > > >>
                              > > >> Roger W
                              > > >
                              > > > I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty
                              > > > wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.
                              > >
                              > > Oh dear. How wonky?
                              > >
                              > > Roger W.
                              >
                              > 1. It will do 3,5 & 7 shots which is fine, but only at 1/3 (useless for HDR) and 2/3 EV increments. You have to shoot the full 7 to get the max +/- 2 EV out of the brackets.

                              Thanks for that.
                              I have actually referred to to GF1 as having the best AEB of any camera besides 1Ds.

                              This is what DPreview says in the specifications.
                              Bracketing • 3, 5 or 7 frames • 1/3 to 2.0 EV steps

                              That is something else than this from Panasonic site:
                              Auto Bracketing (AE) 3,5,7 frame, in 1/3 or 2/3 EV Step, ±2 EV

                              Never trust anything without checking the origin.

                              Hans
                            • Roger D. Williams
                              ... Perhaps they don t expect people to use bracketing for HDR, but more for making sure you get the right exposure in difficult situations where the auto
                              Message 14 of 26 , Nov 3, 2009
                                On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:00:52 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:

                                >> > I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty
                                >> > wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.
                                >>
                                >> Oh dear. How wonky?
                                >>
                                >> Roger W.
                                >
                                > 1. It will do 3,5 & 7 shots which is fine, but only at 1/3 (useless for
                                > HDR) and 2/3 EV increments. You have to shoot the full 7 to get the max
                                > +/- 2 EV out of the brackets.

                                Perhaps they don't expect people to use bracketing for HDR, but more
                                for "making sure" you get the right exposure in difficult situations
                                where the auto exposure function might not give optimum results.

                                Even my D300 only gives 1.0 EV increments.

                                > 2. The "burst mode" & "bracket mode" are on the same hardware dial (no
                                > software switch for it) so you can't just click once and get all the
                                > shots unless you hold your finger down the whole time. Being that the
                                > GF1 has no mirror slap, this would be a nice burst mode to have.

                                Hmmm. Less than optimum.

                                > 3. This is a weird one that I have yet to run into on any camera-
                                >
                                > From the manual: "The exposure may not be compensated with Auto Bracket
                                > depending on the brightness of the subject."

                                I think this means that the Auto Bracket might not be set to cover the
                                range of exposures that WOULD be necessary for the particular brightness
                                of the subject.

                                > So apparently (as I have not tested this quite yet), the camera will
                                > decide on its own if it wants to bracket or not regardless of what you
                                > set it to do? I have to find out yet if it skips the frame all together
                                > or if it just duplicates it using a previous exposure value.
                                >
                                > 4. Another strange one from the manual:
                                >
                                > "The Auto Review function is activated regardless of the Auto Review
                                > setting".

                                After half a professional lifetime translating Japanese manuals into
                                English, I can only guess this is either an error in the process of
                                translation or an error in the original Japanese. I certainly came
                                across enough of the later. It's OT, but my favourite was a lengthy
                                instruction manual for a rather complicated washing machines that
                                said, on the very LAST PAGE. "But before doing any of the above, be
                                sure to make a firm ground connection to avoid the danger of
                                electrocution." Crazy. So nothing would surprise me...

                                Roger W.

                                --
                                Business: www.adex-japan.com
                                Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                              • Bjørn K Nilssen
                                ... Yes, I m sure they didn t think of us when they designed bracketing. On my favourite camera bracketing doesn t work in manual mode, which makes it useless
                                Message 15 of 26 , Nov 3, 2009
                                  On 3 Nov 2009 at 23:03, Roger D. Williams wrote:

                                  > >
                                  > > 1. It will do 3,5 & 7 shots which is fine, but only at 1/3 (useless for
                                  > > HDR) and 2/3 EV increments. You have to shoot the full 7 to get the max
                                  > > +/- 2 EV out of the brackets.
                                  >
                                  > Perhaps they don't expect people to use bracketing for HDR, but more
                                  > for "making sure" you get the right exposure in difficult situations
                                  > where the auto exposure function might not give optimum results.
                                  >
                                  > Even my D300 only gives 1.0 EV increments.

                                  Yes, I'm sure they didn't think of us when they designed bracketing.
                                  On my favourite camera bracketing doesn't work in manual mode, which makes it useless
                                  anyway, regardless of the number of steps.
                                  Thus I always bracket manually, which works very well on a sturdy tripod and a steady
                                  hand on the dial wheel, and with the IR remote of course. I hardly ever have misaligned
                                  HDR shots using this technique. But then there is no mirror slapping on that camera :)

                                  > > 2. The "burst mode" & "bracket mode" are on the same hardware dial (no
                                  > > software switch for it) so you can't just click once and get all the
                                  > > shots unless you hold your finger down the whole time. Being that the
                                  > > GF1 has no mirror slap, this would be a nice burst mode to have.
                                  >
                                  > Hmmm. Less than optimum.

                                  --
                                  Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                                • bohonus
                                  ... Panasonic has recently released a firmware update for the LX3 that boosts the AEB to ±3EV max on the LX3. People are hoping something like will come to
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Nov 3, 2009
                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:

                                    > Perhaps they don't expect people to use bracketing for HDR, but more
                                    > for "making sure" you get the right exposure in difficult situations
                                    > where the auto exposure function might not give optimum results.
                                    >
                                    > Even my D300 only gives 1.0 EV increments.

                                    Panasonic has recently released a firmware update for the LX3 that boosts the AEB to ±3EV max on the LX3. People are hoping something like will come to the GF1/GH1 too.

                                    > > 2. The "burst mode" & "bracket mode" are on the same hardware dial (no
                                    > > software switch for it) so you can't just click once and get all the
                                    > > shots unless you hold your finger down the whole time. Being that the
                                    > > GF1 has no mirror slap, this would be a nice burst mode to have.
                                    >
                                    > Hmmm. Less than optimum.

                                    Yes and the self timer is on that same wheel as well. So you need the wired remote if you don't want to touch the camera while shooting the sequence.

                                    > > 4. Another strange one from the manual:
                                    > >
                                    > > "The Auto Review function is activated regardless of the Auto Review
                                    > > setting".
                                    >
                                    > After half a professional lifetime translating Japanese manuals into
                                    > English, I can only guess this is either an error in the process of
                                    > translation or an error in the original Japanese. I certainly came
                                    > across enough of the later. It's OT, but my favourite was a lengthy
                                    > instruction manual for a rather complicated washing machines that
                                    > said, on the very LAST PAGE. "But before doing any of the above, be
                                    > sure to make a firm ground connection to avoid the danger of
                                    > electrocution." Crazy. So nothing would surprise me...
                                    >
                                    > Roger W.

                                    What this means is that each image will come up on the main LCD for review, even if you have otherwise turned it off (like to save battery usage when shooting). I think they did this because there is no indication as to which frame in the series you are shooting other than just a blinking AEB icon on the display. No count down or current frame number shown etc.

                                    So yeah- AEB on the GF1/GH1 is a little weird (for the time being anyhow). Some tweaks to the firmware could fix these issues.
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