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Sigma 4.5mm on FourThirds or MFT (using adapter etc)?

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  • bohonus
    Has anyone paired these two yet? If so, any example images? I can t locate anything like it online. I don t know what the image circle size is on the Sigma
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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      Has anyone paired these two yet? If so, any example images? I can't locate anything like it online.

      I don't know what the image circle size is on the Sigma 4.5mm, but from looking at APS-C & FourThirds sensor sizes, it looks as though it may give me something comparable to what you would get using the Sigma 8mm on a DX sensor Nikon. Meaning, full 180 from top to bottom with a slight crop of the circle on the sides. They have adapters to put Nikon/Canon etc on MFT and I thought this might be a nice mini VR option for my GF1.
    • Roger D. Williams
      ... I had this thought when the GF1 and PEN came out. But the Sigma 4.5mm is a rather expensive lens for my budget, I don t want a third camera as well as my
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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        On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 07:05:34 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:

        > Has anyone paired these two yet? If so, any example images? I can't
        > locate anything like it online.
        >
        > I don't know what the image circle size is on the Sigma 4.5mm, but from
        > looking at APS-C & FourThirds sensor sizes, it looks as though it may
        > give me something comparable to what you would get using the Sigma 8mm
        > on a DX sensor Nikon. Meaning, full 180 from top to bottom with a slight
        > crop of the circle on the sides. They have adapters to put Nikon/Canon
        > etc on MFT and I thought this might be a nice mini VR option for my GF1.

        I had this thought when the GF1 and "PEN" came out. But the Sigma 4.5mm
        is a rather expensive lens for my budget, I don't want a third camera as
        well as my Fuji S5 and Nikon D300, and would be reluctant to dump either
        of them. If I were starting over again, I might go for it.

        However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
        found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
        ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
        4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.

        Roger

        --
        Business: www.adex-japan.com
        Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
      • Hans
        ... Have also been looking at the GF for a light weight VR solution BUT Sigma 4.5 Dimensions Diameter 76.2mm X Length 77.8mm 3.0 in. X 3.1 in. Weight 470g/16.6
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "bohonus" <bradford@...> wrote:
          >
          > Has anyone paired these two yet? If so, any example images? I can't locate anything like it online.
          >
          > I don't know what the image circle size is on the Sigma 4.5mm, but from looking at APS-C & FourThirds sensor sizes, it looks as though it may give me something comparable to what you would get using the Sigma 8mm on a DX sensor Nikon. Meaning, full 180 from top to bottom with a slight crop of the circle on the sides. They have adapters to put Nikon/Canon etc on MFT and I thought this might be a nice mini VR option for my GF1.
          >

          Have also been looking at the GF for a light weight VR solution
          BUT

          Sigma 4.5
          Dimensions Diameter 76.2mm X Length 77.8mm
          3.0 in. X 3.1 in.
          Weight 470g/16.6 oz.
          GF1 285 g+battery
          119 mm x 71 mm x 36.3 mm (4.69 x 2.8 x 1.43 inches)

          That makes around 800 gr
          Price $899 +999 + adapter

          Pentax K-x 512 g + battery 122.5mm x 91.5mm x 67.5mm (4.8 x 3.6 x 2.7 in)
          Pentax 10-17 Weight: 11.3 oz. (320g)
          Thats around 880 g with battery
          Price $649 +525

          Pentax with built in 3 shot HDR from 3 bracketed images
          Quality superior to the GF1 for sure.

          What would you choose.?

          Hans
        • Ken Warner
          I ve read that the Pen is basically an Olympus e620 -- for whatever that s worth...
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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            I've read that the Pen is basically an Olympus e620 --
            for whatever that's worth...

            Roger D. Williams wrote:

            > However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
            > found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
            > ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
            > 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
            >
            > Roger
            >
          • Roger D. Williams
            On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:24:17 +0900, Ken Warner ... Hmmm. Not worth much, I feel. They might well have used some of the same working
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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              On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:24:17 +0900, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>
              wrote:

              > I've read that the Pen is basically an Olympus e620 --
              > for whatever that's worth...
              >
              > Roger D. Williams wrote:
              >
              >> However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
              >> found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
              >> ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
              >> 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.

              Hmmm. Not worth much, I feel. They might well have used some of the same
              working parts (foolish not to) but the form factor and user
              experience are quite dissimilar.

              Roger W.

              --
              Business: www.adex-japan.com
              Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
            • bohonus
              ... Don t forget to consider the nice lenses (e.g. Leica etc) that you can now use with the GF1.
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@...> wrote:
                > Have also been looking at the GF for a light weight VR solution
                > BUT
                >
                > Sigma 4.5
                > Dimensions Diameter 76.2mm X Length 77.8mm
                > 3.0 in. X 3.1 in.
                > Weight 470g/16.6 oz.
                > GF1 285 g+battery
                > 119 mm x 71 mm x 36.3 mm (4.69 x 2.8 x 1.43 inches)
                >
                > That makes around 800 gr
                > Price $899 +999 + adapter
                >
                > Pentax K-x 512 g + battery 122.5mm x 91.5mm x 67.5mm (4.8 x 3.6 x 2.7 in)
                > Pentax 10-17 Weight: 11.3 oz. (320g)
                > Thats around 880 g with battery
                > Price $649 +525
                >
                > Pentax with built in 3 shot HDR from 3 bracketed images
                > Quality superior to the GF1 for sure.
                >
                > What would you choose.?
                >
                > Hans

                Don't forget to consider the nice lenses (e.g. Leica etc) that you can now use with the GF1.
              • Ken Warner
                You mentioned dynamic range as your concern. Wouldn t the dynamic range be the same as the e620?
                Message 7 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                  You mentioned dynamic range as your concern. Wouldn't the dynamic
                  range be the same as the e620?

                  Roger D. Williams wrote:
                  > On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:24:17 +0900, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  >> I've read that the Pen is basically an Olympus e620 --
                  >> for whatever that's worth...
                  >>
                  >> Roger D. Williams wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
                  >>> found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
                  >>> ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
                  >>> 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
                  >
                  > Hmmm. Not worth much, I feel. They might well have used some of the same
                  > working parts (foolish not to) but the form factor and user
                  > experience are quite dissimilar.
                  >
                  > Roger W.
                  >
                • bohonus
                  ... I got the GF1 as a carry-around camera and also to use on a Gigapan unit. I thought it could be nice if I could also use it to knock off a quick handheld
                  Message 8 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:

                    > However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
                    > found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
                    > ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
                    > 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
                    >
                    > Roger

                    I got the GF1 as a carry-around camera and also to use on a Gigapan unit. I thought it could be nice if I could also use it to knock off a quick handheld or monopod pano when I don't have my "regular" vr gear with me.
                  • Hans
                    ... Leitz on Pentax http://www.leitax.com/ Hans
                    Message 9 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "bohonus" <bradford@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
                      > > Have also been looking at the GF for a light weight VR solution
                      > > BUT
                      > >
                      > > Sigma 4.5
                      > > Dimensions Diameter 76.2mm X Length 77.8mm
                      > > 3.0 in. X 3.1 in.
                      > > Weight 470g/16.6 oz.
                      > > GF1 285 g+battery
                      > > 119 mm x 71 mm x 36.3 mm (4.69 x 2.8 x 1.43 inches)
                      > >
                      > > That makes around 800 gr
                      > > Price $899 +999 + adapter
                      > >
                      > > Pentax K-x 512 g + battery 122.5mm x 91.5mm x 67.5mm (4.8 x 3.6 x 2.7 in)
                      > > Pentax 10-17 Weight: 11.3 oz. (320g)
                      > > Thats around 880 g with battery
                      > > Price $649 +525
                      > >
                      > > Pentax with built in 3 shot HDR from 3 bracketed images
                      > > Quality superior to the GF1 for sure.
                      > >
                      > > What would you choose.?
                      > >
                      > > Hans
                      >
                      > Don't forget to consider the nice lenses (e.g. Leica etc) that you can now use with the GF1.
                      >

                      Leitz on Pentax
                      http://www.leitax.com/

                      Hans
                    • Roger D. Williams
                      ... That makes sense. The FL 2x multiplier is actually a help when it comes to making Gigapanoramas. I am more tempted by the higher-end P&S cameras for a
                      Message 10 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                        On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:13:57 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        >> However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
                        >> found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
                        >> ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
                        >> 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
                        >>
                        >> Roger
                        >
                        > I got the GF1 as a carry-around camera and also to use on a Gigapan
                        > unit. I thought it could be nice if I could also use it to knock off a
                        > quick handheld or monopod pano when I don't have my "regular" vr gear
                        > with me.

                        That makes sense. The FL 2x multiplier is actually a help when it comes
                        to making Gigapanoramas. I am more tempted by the higher-end P&S cameras
                        for a carry-around camera. I used to use my Sharp mobile camera which
                        was quite adequate for the job; it had a 28mm equivalent lens and let
                        me tweak exposures, etc. But the iPhone (which I love for different
                        reasons) just isn't up to it.

                        Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                        with the PEN?

                        Roger W

                        --
                        Business: www.adex-japan.com
                        Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                      • Bjørn K Nilssen
                        ... There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider Might be a good choice? Here s a white paper on using it on th E-P1
                        Message 11 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                          On 3 Nov 2009 at 0:13, bohonus wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
                          > > found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
                          > > ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
                          > > 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
                          > >
                          > > Roger
                          >
                          > I got the GF1 as a carry-around camera and also to use on a Gigapan unit. I thought it
                          > could be nice if I could also use it to knock off a quick handheld or monopod pano
                          > when I don't have my "regular" vr gear with me.

                          There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
                          Might be a good choice?
                          Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
                          http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
                          Looks good to me!
                          And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.

                          --
                          Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                        • Roger D. Williams
                          ... Now there s a point I d forgotten! I have several very nice Leica-mount Cosina lenses, astonishingly good value and beautiful image quality that worked
                          Message 12 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                            On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:54:41 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:

                            > Don't forget to consider the nice lenses (e.g. Leica etc) that you can
                            > now use with the GF1.

                            Now there's a point I'd forgotten! I have several very nice Leica-mount
                            Cosina lenses, astonishingly good value and beautiful image quality
                            that worked well for me when I used only rangefinder/film cameras. It
                            would be nice to give them a second lease of life. But my favourite
                            21mm would become a 42mm equivalent, and that's way up in the telephoto
                            range for me. <grin>

                            But the adapters cost as much as I used to pay for lenses... <sad smile>

                            Roger W.


                            --
                            Business: www.adex-japan.com
                            Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                          • Roger D. Williams
                            Oh I see, Ken. I didn t understand your suggestion. Yes, of course you re right on that. If they use the same innards they would presumably suffer from the
                            Message 13 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                              Oh I see, Ken. I didn't understand your suggestion. Yes, of course you're
                              right on that. If they use the same innards they would presumably suffer
                              from the same limitations.

                              Roger W.

                              On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:03:37 +0900, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>
                              wrote:

                              > You mentioned dynamic range as your concern. Wouldn't the dynamic
                              > range be the same as the e620?
                              >
                              > Roger D. Williams wrote:
                              >> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:24:17 +0900, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>
                              >> wrote:
                              >>
                              >>> I've read that the Pen is basically an Olympus e620 --
                              >>> for whatever that's worth...
                              >>>
                              >>> Roger D. Williams wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>>> However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
                              >>>> found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
                              >>>> ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
                              >>>> 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
                              >>
                              >> Hmmm. Not worth much, I feel. They might well have used some of the same
                              >> working parts (foolish not to) but the form factor and user
                              >> experience are quite dissimilar.
                              >>
                              >> Roger W.
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >


                              --
                              Business: www.adex-japan.com
                              Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                            • bohonus
                              ... Ah perfect! I TOTALLY forgot about that Sunex. Thanks Bjørn :) Exactly what I was looking/hoping for to use on my GF1. The fixed aperture and focus is a
                              Message 14 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
                                > There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
                                > Might be a good choice?
                                > Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
                                > http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
                                > Looks good to me!
                                > And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.
                                >
                                > --
                                > Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D

                                Ah perfect! I TOTALLY forgot about that Sunex. Thanks Bjørn :)

                                Exactly what I was looking/hoping for to use on my GF1. The fixed aperture and focus is a nice bonus too and keeps things simple.
                              • Ken Warner
                                Sounds like a nice system to me also. If I only had the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
                                Message 15 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                  Sounds like a nice system to me also. If I only had the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

                                  bohonus wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
                                  >> There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
                                  >> Might be a good choice?
                                  >> Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
                                  >> http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
                                  >> Looks good to me!
                                  >> And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.
                                  >>
                                  >> --
                                  >> Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                                  >
                                  > Ah perfect! I TOTALLY forgot about that Sunex. Thanks Bjørn :)
                                  >
                                  > Exactly what I was looking/hoping for to use on my GF1. The fixed aperture and focus is a nice bonus too and keeps things simple.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • bohonus
                                  ... Yes I did. I can recover a much larger portion of highlights from my D300 shots in Adobe Camera Raw. The D300 has 14bit A/D conversion though. Can t find
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
                                    > Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                                    > with the PEN?
                                    >
                                    > Roger W

                                    Yes I did. I can recover a much larger portion of highlights from my D300 shots in Adobe Camera Raw. The D300 has 14bit A/D conversion though. Can't find the A/D spec for the GF1. Perhaps it is 12bit A/D then? or?

                                    I wonder how well the in-camera stabilization of the Pen (the GF1 does not have this feature) will work with the Sunex as the whitepaper linked to in the other post did not not mention it. Seems like it could be a nice feature as well when using a monopod or doing handheld.
                                  • bohonus
                                    ... I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
                                      > Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                                      > with the PEN?
                                      >
                                      > Roger W

                                      I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.
                                    • Ken Warner
                                      The test shots go together pretty easy but I think he kicked the tripod on one of the shots. There s some parallax error that shouldn t be there. I d be happy
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                        The test shots go together pretty easy but I think he kicked the tripod
                                        on one of the shots. There's some parallax error that shouldn't be there.

                                        I'd be happy with that setup. Or on the GF1.

                                        bohonus wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
                                        >> There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
                                        >> Might be a good choice?
                                        >> Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
                                        >> http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
                                        >> Looks good to me!
                                        >> And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.
                                        >>
                                        >> --
                                        >> Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                                        >
                                        > Ah perfect! I TOTALLY forgot about that Sunex. Thanks Bjørn :)
                                        >
                                        > Exactly what I was looking/hoping for to use on my GF1. The fixed aperture and focus is a nice bonus too and keeps things simple.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Roger D. Williams
                                        On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:56:45 +0900, Bjørn K Nilssen ... Very interesting and well-written paper. Claims to be impartial, too, which is good.
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                          On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:56:45 +0900, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...>
                                          wrote:

                                          > There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
                                          > Might be a good choice?
                                          > Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
                                          > http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
                                          > Looks good to me!
                                          > And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a
                                          > monopod.

                                          Very interesting and well-written paper. Claims to be impartial, too, which
                                          is good.

                                          I did notice some fairly obvious chromatic aberration that will probably
                                          require an extra stage of processing before stitching.

                                          And the restricted dynamic range means using HDR, although hopefully the
                                          pseudo HDR from RAW files may be enough for many cases.

                                          I like the look of their rotator, too.

                                          Roger

                                          --
                                          Business: www.adex-japan.com
                                          Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                                        • Roger D. Williams
                                          ... Hmmm. I ll see if the Japanese camera mag reviews quote that. They do usually give very complete specs. ... Ah, that s another useful feature... at my age
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                            On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:09:42 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:

                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            >> Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                                            >> with the PEN?
                                            >>
                                            >> Roger W
                                            >
                                            > Yes I did. I can recover a much larger portion of highlights from my
                                            > D300 shots in Adobe Camera Raw. The D300 has 14bit A/D conversion
                                            > though. Can't find the A/D spec for the GF1. Perhaps it is 12bit A/D
                                            > then? or?

                                            Hmmm. I'll see if the Japanese camera mag reviews quote that. They do
                                            usually give very complete specs.

                                            > I wonder how well the in-camera stabilization of the Pen (the GF1 does
                                            > not have this feature) will work with the Sunex as the whitepaper linked
                                            > to in the other post did not not mention it. Seems like it could be a
                                            > nice feature as well when using a monopod or doing handheld.

                                            Ah, that's another useful feature... at my age (early 70s) hand shake
                                            is becoming an increasing problem. Of course it's less of a problem with
                                            a monopod. That maybe why it wasn't mentioned.

                                            Where can I find the best price for a Sunex + rotator? The cheaper US$
                                            vs. the JPY (my local currency) is making things more affordable.

                                            Roger

                                            --
                                            Business: www.adex-japan.com
                                            Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                                          • Roger D. Williams
                                            ... Oh dear. How wonky? Roger W. -- Business: www.adex-japan.com Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                              On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:14:02 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:

                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>
                                              > wrote:
                                              >> Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                                              >> with the PEN?
                                              >>
                                              >> Roger W
                                              >
                                              > I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty
                                              > wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.

                                              Oh dear. How wonky?

                                              Roger W.

                                              --
                                              Business: www.adex-japan.com
                                              Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                                            • bohonus
                                              ... 1. It will do 3,5 & 7 shots which is fine, but only at 1/3 (useless for HDR) and 2/3 EV increments. You have to shoot the full 7 to get the max +/- 2 EV
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:14:02 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@>
                                                > > wrote:
                                                > >> Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                                                > >> with the PEN?
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Roger W
                                                > >
                                                > > I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty
                                                > > wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.
                                                >
                                                > Oh dear. How wonky?
                                                >
                                                > Roger W.

                                                1. It will do 3,5 & 7 shots which is fine, but only at 1/3 (useless for HDR) and 2/3 EV increments. You have to shoot the full 7 to get the max +/- 2 EV out of the brackets.

                                                2. The "burst mode" & "bracket mode" are on the same hardware dial (no software switch for it) so you can't just click once and get all the shots unless you hold your finger down the whole time. Being that the GF1 has no mirror slap, this would be a nice burst mode to have.

                                                3. This is a weird one that I have yet to run into on any camera-

                                                From the manual: "The exposure may not be compensated with Auto Bracket depending on the brightness of the subject."

                                                So apparently (as I have not tested this quite yet), the camera will decide on its own if it wants to bracket or not regardless of what you set it to do? I have to find out yet if it skips the frame all together or if it just duplicates it using a previous exposure value.

                                                4. Another strange one from the manual:

                                                "The Auto Review function is activated regardless of the Auto Review setting".
                                              • Hans
                                                ... Thanks for that. I have actually referred to to GF1 as having the best AEB of any camera besides 1Ds. This is what DPreview says in the specifications.
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Nov 3, 2009
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                                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "bohonus" <bradford@...> wrote:

                                                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:14:02 +0900, bohonus <bradford@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@>
                                                  > > > wrote:
                                                  > > >> Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
                                                  > > >> with the PEN?
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >> Roger W
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty
                                                  > > > wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Oh dear. How wonky?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Roger W.
                                                  >
                                                  > 1. It will do 3,5 & 7 shots which is fine, but only at 1/3 (useless for HDR) and 2/3 EV increments. You have to shoot the full 7 to get the max +/- 2 EV out of the brackets.

                                                  Thanks for that.
                                                  I have actually referred to to GF1 as having the best AEB of any camera besides 1Ds.

                                                  This is what DPreview says in the specifications.
                                                  Bracketing • 3, 5 or 7 frames • 1/3 to 2.0 EV steps

                                                  That is something else than this from Panasonic site:
                                                  Auto Bracketing (AE) 3,5,7 frame, in 1/3 or 2/3 EV Step, ±2 EV

                                                  Never trust anything without checking the origin.

                                                  Hans
                                                • Roger D. Williams
                                                  ... Perhaps they don t expect people to use bracketing for HDR, but more for making sure you get the right exposure in difficult situations where the auto
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Nov 3, 2009
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                                                    On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:00:52 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:

                                                    >> > I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty
                                                    >> > wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.
                                                    >>
                                                    >> Oh dear. How wonky?
                                                    >>
                                                    >> Roger W.
                                                    >
                                                    > 1. It will do 3,5 & 7 shots which is fine, but only at 1/3 (useless for
                                                    > HDR) and 2/3 EV increments. You have to shoot the full 7 to get the max
                                                    > +/- 2 EV out of the brackets.

                                                    Perhaps they don't expect people to use bracketing for HDR, but more
                                                    for "making sure" you get the right exposure in difficult situations
                                                    where the auto exposure function might not give optimum results.

                                                    Even my D300 only gives 1.0 EV increments.

                                                    > 2. The "burst mode" & "bracket mode" are on the same hardware dial (no
                                                    > software switch for it) so you can't just click once and get all the
                                                    > shots unless you hold your finger down the whole time. Being that the
                                                    > GF1 has no mirror slap, this would be a nice burst mode to have.

                                                    Hmmm. Less than optimum.

                                                    > 3. This is a weird one that I have yet to run into on any camera-
                                                    >
                                                    > From the manual: "The exposure may not be compensated with Auto Bracket
                                                    > depending on the brightness of the subject."

                                                    I think this means that the Auto Bracket might not be set to cover the
                                                    range of exposures that WOULD be necessary for the particular brightness
                                                    of the subject.

                                                    > So apparently (as I have not tested this quite yet), the camera will
                                                    > decide on its own if it wants to bracket or not regardless of what you
                                                    > set it to do? I have to find out yet if it skips the frame all together
                                                    > or if it just duplicates it using a previous exposure value.
                                                    >
                                                    > 4. Another strange one from the manual:
                                                    >
                                                    > "The Auto Review function is activated regardless of the Auto Review
                                                    > setting".

                                                    After half a professional lifetime translating Japanese manuals into
                                                    English, I can only guess this is either an error in the process of
                                                    translation or an error in the original Japanese. I certainly came
                                                    across enough of the later. It's OT, but my favourite was a lengthy
                                                    instruction manual for a rather complicated washing machines that
                                                    said, on the very LAST PAGE. "But before doing any of the above, be
                                                    sure to make a firm ground connection to avoid the danger of
                                                    electrocution." Crazy. So nothing would surprise me...

                                                    Roger W.

                                                    --
                                                    Business: www.adex-japan.com
                                                    Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                                                  • Bjørn K Nilssen
                                                    ... Yes, I m sure they didn t think of us when they designed bracketing. On my favourite camera bracketing doesn t work in manual mode, which makes it useless
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Nov 3, 2009
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                                                      On 3 Nov 2009 at 23:03, Roger D. Williams wrote:

                                                      > >
                                                      > > 1. It will do 3,5 & 7 shots which is fine, but only at 1/3 (useless for
                                                      > > HDR) and 2/3 EV increments. You have to shoot the full 7 to get the max
                                                      > > +/- 2 EV out of the brackets.
                                                      >
                                                      > Perhaps they don't expect people to use bracketing for HDR, but more
                                                      > for "making sure" you get the right exposure in difficult situations
                                                      > where the auto exposure function might not give optimum results.
                                                      >
                                                      > Even my D300 only gives 1.0 EV increments.

                                                      Yes, I'm sure they didn't think of us when they designed bracketing.
                                                      On my favourite camera bracketing doesn't work in manual mode, which makes it useless
                                                      anyway, regardless of the number of steps.
                                                      Thus I always bracket manually, which works very well on a sturdy tripod and a steady
                                                      hand on the dial wheel, and with the IR remote of course. I hardly ever have misaligned
                                                      HDR shots using this technique. But then there is no mirror slapping on that camera :)

                                                      > > 2. The "burst mode" & "bracket mode" are on the same hardware dial (no
                                                      > > software switch for it) so you can't just click once and get all the
                                                      > > shots unless you hold your finger down the whole time. Being that the
                                                      > > GF1 has no mirror slap, this would be a nice burst mode to have.
                                                      >
                                                      > Hmmm. Less than optimum.

                                                      --
                                                      Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                                                    • bohonus
                                                      ... Panasonic has recently released a firmware update for the LX3 that boosts the AEB to ±3EV max on the LX3. People are hoping something like will come to
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Nov 3, 2009
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                                                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:

                                                        > Perhaps they don't expect people to use bracketing for HDR, but more
                                                        > for "making sure" you get the right exposure in difficult situations
                                                        > where the auto exposure function might not give optimum results.
                                                        >
                                                        > Even my D300 only gives 1.0 EV increments.

                                                        Panasonic has recently released a firmware update for the LX3 that boosts the AEB to ±3EV max on the LX3. People are hoping something like will come to the GF1/GH1 too.

                                                        > > 2. The "burst mode" & "bracket mode" are on the same hardware dial (no
                                                        > > software switch for it) so you can't just click once and get all the
                                                        > > shots unless you hold your finger down the whole time. Being that the
                                                        > > GF1 has no mirror slap, this would be a nice burst mode to have.
                                                        >
                                                        > Hmmm. Less than optimum.

                                                        Yes and the self timer is on that same wheel as well. So you need the wired remote if you don't want to touch the camera while shooting the sequence.

                                                        > > 4. Another strange one from the manual:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > "The Auto Review function is activated regardless of the Auto Review
                                                        > > setting".
                                                        >
                                                        > After half a professional lifetime translating Japanese manuals into
                                                        > English, I can only guess this is either an error in the process of
                                                        > translation or an error in the original Japanese. I certainly came
                                                        > across enough of the later. It's OT, but my favourite was a lengthy
                                                        > instruction manual for a rather complicated washing machines that
                                                        > said, on the very LAST PAGE. "But before doing any of the above, be
                                                        > sure to make a firm ground connection to avoid the danger of
                                                        > electrocution." Crazy. So nothing would surprise me...
                                                        >
                                                        > Roger W.

                                                        What this means is that each image will come up on the main LCD for review, even if you have otherwise turned it off (like to save battery usage when shooting). I think they did this because there is no indication as to which frame in the series you are shooting other than just a blinking AEB icon on the display. No count down or current frame number shown etc.

                                                        So yeah- AEB on the GF1/GH1 is a little weird (for the time being anyhow). Some tweaks to the firmware could fix these issues.
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