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Ohh is this big or what ! Our galaxy as a 360x180

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  • g8dhe
    Just located this on APOD this has to be one of the biggest images I ve ever seen ! The Pano is at The
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 26, 2009
      Just located this on APOD
      this has to be one of the biggest images I've ever seen !
      The Pano is at <http://www.sergebrunier.com/gallerie/pleinciel/360.swf>
      The descriotion on APOD is here <http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090926.html>

      Geoff
      Sphericalvisions
    • Mark D. Fink
      Oh great - yet ANOTHER pano obviously out of level, and are those nadir and zenith patches that I see? :o) Just kidding - great pano! I m having a blast poking
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 26, 2009
        Oh great - yet ANOTHER pano obviously out of level, and are those nadir and
        zenith patches that I see? :o)

        Just kidding - great pano! I'm having a blast poking about and seeing the
        neighborhood from a different perspective. A "You Are Here" thingy would be
        really helpful though...

        Mark
        www.pinnacle-vr.com
        www.northernlight.net


        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of g8dhe
        > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 4:42 PM
        > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Ohh is this big or what ! Our galaxy as a 360x180
        >
        > Just located this on APOD
        > this has to be one of the biggest images I've ever seen !
        > The Pano is at <http://www.sergebrunier.com/gallerie/pleinciel/360.swf>
        > The descriotion on APOD is here
        > <http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090926.html>
        >
        > Geoff
        > Sphericalvisions
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > --
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.112/2393 - Release Date:
        > 09/26/09 05:51:00
      • Trausti Hraunfjord
        This should be a multi node tour... with at least one pano for each solar system...that would be ... 100.000 million panos in the project... guess we have to
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 26, 2009
          This should be a multi node tour... with at least one pano for each solar
          system...that would be ... 100.000 million panos in the project... guess we
          have to wait for some advances in space technology before that can happen.
          I think that in this pano, the "you are here" position (Earth)... is the
          position of the "camera" in the pano.

          On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Mark D. Fink
          <markdfink@...>wrote:

          >
          >
          > Oh great - yet ANOTHER pano obviously out of level, and are those nadir and
          > zenith patches that I see? :o)
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • crane@ukonline.co.uk
          ... Where do you think the photos were taken ? :) incidentally I had quite a bit of trouble comprehending the big bang so if the universe is expanding I
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
            Quoting "Mark D. Fink" <markdfink@...>:

            > Oh great - yet ANOTHER pano obviously out of level, and are those nadir and
            > zenith patches that I see? :o)
            >
            > Just kidding - great pano! I'm having a blast poking about and seeing the
            > neighborhood from a different perspective. A "You Are Here" thingy would be
            > really helpful though...

            Where do you think the photos were taken ? :)
            incidentally
            I had quite a bit of trouble comprehending the "big bang"

            "so if the universe is expanding I should be able to see the centre where it
            originated"
            "why can we see the past looking in any direction ? it should only be toward the
            origin."


            are incorrect because we were in the centre that is expanding and one needs to
            forget the idea that there might be an edge.

            regards

            mick


            ----------------------------------------------
            This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
          • panovrx
            ... Not only is the universe expanding the rate of expansion is increasing. cf the graphic bottom the the page http://hetdex.org/dark_energy/index.php
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, crane@... wrote:
              >
              > Quoting "Mark D. Fink" <markdfink@...>:
              >
              > > Oh great - yet ANOTHER pano obviously out of level, and are those nadir and
              > > zenith patches that I see? :o)
              > >
              > > Just kidding - great pano! I'm having a blast poking about and seeing the
              > > neighborhood from a different perspective. A "You Are Here" thingy would be
              > > really helpful though...
              >
              > Where do you think the photos were taken ? :)
              > incidentally
              > I had quite a bit of trouble comprehending the "big bang"
              >
              > "so if the universe is expanding I should be able to see the centre where it
              > originated"
              > "why can we see the past looking in any direction ? it should only be toward the
              > origin."
              >
              >
              > are incorrect because we were in the centre that is expanding and one needs to
              > forget the idea that there might be an edge.
              >
              > regards
              >
              > mick
              >
              >
              > ----------------------------------------------
              > This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
              >
              Not only is the universe expanding the rate of expansion is increasing.
              cf the graphic bottom the the page
              http://hetdex.org/dark_energy/index.php
              Eventually (100 billion years) all the external galaxies (outside the local group) will be too far away to ever be seen and so the universe for inhabitants of our galaxy will be a much darker and more boring universe to look at (or take panoramas of).

              Peter M
            • crane@ukonline.co.uk
              ... I hope they finish the princess Di inquest by then. ... This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
                Quoting panovrx <panovrx@...>:

                > Not only is the universe expanding the rate of expansion is increasing.
                > cf the graphic bottom the the page
                > http://hetdex.org/dark_energy/index.php
                > Eventually (100 billion years) all the external galaxies (outside the local
                > group) will be too far away to ever be seen and so the universe for
                > inhabitants of our galaxy will be a much darker and more boring universe to
                > look at (or take panoramas of).

                <g> I hope they finish the princess Di inquest by then.



                ----------------------------------------------
                This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
              • Ken Warner
                I don t believe the universe is expanding. I don t believe in the big bang theory. I don t believe that light is red shifted indicates an expanding universe.
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
                  I don't believe the universe is expanding. I don't believe in the big
                  bang theory. I don't believe that light is red shifted indicates an
                  expanding universe.

                  These are all convenient models for an incompletely understood set of phenomena.

                  Remember that not to long ago, the Sun was thought to revolve around the Earth...

                  panovrx wrote:

                  >> ----------------------------------------------
                  >> This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
                  >>
                  > Not only is the universe expanding the rate of expansion is increasing.
                  > cf the graphic bottom the the page
                  > http://hetdex.org/dark_energy/index.php
                  > Eventually (100 billion years) all the external galaxies (outside the local group) will be too far away to ever be seen and so the universe for inhabitants of our galaxy will be a much darker and more boring universe to look at (or take panoramas of).
                  >
                  > Peter M
                  >
                  >
                • crane@ukonline.co.uk
                  ... I agree, it is a theory. don t panic. regards mick ... This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
                  Message 8 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
                    Quoting Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>:

                    > I don't believe the universe is expanding. I don't believe in the big
                    > bang theory. I don't believe that light is red shifted indicates an
                    > expanding universe.
                    >
                    > These are all convenient models for an incompletely understood set of
                    > phenomena.
                    I agree, it is a theory. don't panic.
                    regards

                    mick


                    ----------------------------------------------
                    This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
                  • Harry van der Wolf
                    2009/9/27 ... Well......., It would explain why it was so easy to travel from system to system in Star Wars, which took place long,
                    Message 9 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
                      2009/9/27 <crane@...>

                      >
                      >
                      > Quoting Ken Warner <kwarner000@... <kwarner000%40verizon.net>>:
                      >
                      > > I don't believe the universe is expanding. I don't believe in the big
                      > > bang theory. I don't believe that light is red shifted indicates an
                      > > expanding universe.
                      > >
                      > > These are all convenient models for an incompletely understood set of
                      > > phenomena.
                      > I agree, it is a theory. don't panic.
                      > regards
                      >
                      > mick
                      >















                      Well.......,

                      It would explain why it was so easy to travel from system to system in Star
                      Wars, which took place "long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far way".
                      In those times it was not that big, was it?


                      Harry


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • panovrx
                      ... If you look at the sequence at the end of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5et696cP50&feature=related you see a film visualising an accelerating
                      Message 10 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
                        > > are incorrect because we were in the centre that is expanding and one needs to
                        > > forget the idea that there might be an edge.
                        > >
                        > > regards
                        > >
                        > > mick

                        > >
                        > Not only is the universe expanding the rate of expansion is increasing.
                        > cf the graphic bottom the the page
                        > http://hetdex.org/dark_energy/index.php
                        > Eventually (100 billion years) all the external galaxies (outside the local group) will be too far away to ever be seen and so the universe for inhabitants of our galaxy will be a much darker and more boring universe to look at (or take panoramas of).
                        >
                        > Peter M
                        >

                        If you look at the sequence at the end of this video
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5et696cP50&feature=related
                        you see a film visualising an accelerating expanding universe
                        as a bunch of chairs (galaxies). A nice sequence which got me thinking that interactive panoramic videos would be useful tool for cosmology (and quantum mechanics) visualisations.

                        Peter M
                      • Trausti Hraunfjord
                        Knowledge is always better than belief. Science is still far from having made all possible discoveries, so we just have to wait for more repeatedly
                        Message 11 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
                          Knowledge is always better than belief. Science is still far from having
                          made all possible discoveries, so we just have to wait for more repeatedly
                          reproducible results for different (current and past) theories, before
                          having the "whole picture".

                          I am pretty sure science will never find some white bearded santa... errr...
                          big guy in a night-gown, who created the universe in 6 days or so... But
                          there are people who still believe such things... and that of course, only
                          shows how "evolved" humanity really is, and why there are so many people who
                          blindly fall for Nigerian scam's that promise them millions, if they only
                          provide name and bank account info etc. Lack of intelligence is absolutely
                          present in the universe, as indicated in my above lines of "wisdom"....

                          For a thousand years, "let there be light" was considered as some divine
                          magic. Now, all we have to do, is push a button... no magic involved, just
                          scientific results. Let science evolve, and let the less evolved stay out
                          of the way of science... and we can hope for progress.

                          Trausti



                          On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 7:44 AM, panovrx <panovrx@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > > > are incorrect because we were in the centre that is expanding and one
                          > needs to
                          > > > forget the idea that there might be an edge.
                          > > >
                          > > > regards
                          > > >
                          > > > mick
                          >
                          > > >
                          > > Not only is the universe expanding the rate of expansion is increasing.
                          > > cf the graphic bottom the the page
                          > > http://hetdex.org/dark_energy/index.php
                          > > Eventually (100 billion years) all the external galaxies (outside the
                          > local group) will be too far away to ever be seen and so the universe for
                          > inhabitants of our galaxy will be a much darker and more boring universe to
                          > look at (or take panoramas of).
                          > >
                          > > Peter M
                          > >
                          >
                          > If you look at the sequence at the end of this video
                          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5et696cP50&feature=related
                          > you see a film visualising an accelerating expanding universe
                          > as a bunch of chairs (galaxies). A nice sequence which got me thinking that
                          > interactive panoramic videos would be useful tool for cosmology (and quantum
                          > mechanics) visualisations.
                          >
                          > Peter M
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Keith Martin
                          ... But what do we do with all those souls that we ve stolen and captured in our photographs? (And are they affected by JPEG compression?) k
                          Message 12 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
                            Sometime around 27/9/09 (at 08:53 -0500) Trausti Hraunfjord said:

                            >Now, all we have to do, is push a button... no magic involved

                            But what do we do with all those souls that we've stolen and captured
                            in our photographs? (And are they affected by JPEG compression?)

                            k
                          • Trausti Hraunfjord
                            They are already on their way to distant galaxies, sent off through wireless internet connections... their faces will appear on some alien screens all across
                            Message 13 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
                              They are already on their way to distant galaxies, sent off through wireless
                              internet connections... their faces will appear on some alien screens all
                              across the universe... that's what we do with them. A little defigurement
                              by JPEG artifacts is a small price to pay for such journeys.

                              Trausti

                              On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:

                              >
                              > But what do we do with all those souls that we've stolen and captured
                              > in our photographs? (And are they affected by JPEG compression?)
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Uri Cogan
                              ... Yes. This is not a matter of belief of disbelief (we are not talking religion here), but simply what we think we know. So far, the models we have of these
                              Message 14 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
                                Ken Warner wrote:


                                >
                                >
                                > I don't believe the universe is expanding. I don't believe in the big
                                > bang theory. I don't believe that light is red shifted indicates an
                                > expanding universe.
                                >
                                >








                                Yes. This is not a matter of belief of disbelief (we are not talking
                                religion here), but simply what we think we know. So far, the models we
                                have of these phenomena appear to fit with the experiential data.


                                These are all convenient models for an incompletely understood set of
                                phenomena.


                                Yes, science is an open-ended exercise, and there are no certainties,
                                except some models have higher probabilities of being accurate than others.

                                :-)
                                uri


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Mark D. Fink
                                ... So, the answer is still 42? :o) Mark www.pinnacle-vr.com www.northernlight.net
                                Message 15 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
                                  >
                                  > Quoting Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>:
                                  >
                                  > > I don't believe the universe is expanding. I don't believe in the big
                                  > > bang theory. I don't believe that light is red shifted indicates an
                                  > > expanding universe.
                                  > >
                                  > > These are all convenient models for an incompletely understood set of
                                  > > phenomena.
                                  > I agree, it is a theory. don't panic.
                                  > regards
                                  >
                                  > mick

                                  So, the answer is still 42? :o)

                                  Mark
                                  www.pinnacle-vr.com
                                  www.northernlight.net
                                • Ken Warner
                                  Exactly!
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Sep 27, 2009
                                    Exactly!

                                    Mark D. Fink wrote:
                                    >> Quoting Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>:
                                    >
                                    > So, the answer is still 42? :o)
                                    >
                                    > Mark
                                    >
                                  • panovrx
                                    ... There is a site with interesting computer graphics movies showing relativistic vision distortions at near light speeds. Maybe some more mathematical list
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Sep 28, 2009
                                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <panovrx@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > > are incorrect because we were in the centre that is expanding and one needs to
                                      > > > forget the idea that there might be an edge.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > regards
                                      > > >
                                      > > > mick
                                      >
                                      > > >
                                      > > Not only is the universe expanding the rate of expansion is increasing.
                                      > > cf the graphic bottom the the page
                                      > > http://hetdex.org/dark_energy/index.php
                                      > > Eventually (100 billion years) all the external galaxies (outside the local group) will be too far away to ever be seen and so the universe for inhabitants of our galaxy will be a much darker and more boring universe to look at (or take panoramas of).
                                      > >
                                      > > Peter M
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > If you look at the sequence at the end of this video
                                      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5et696cP50&feature=related
                                      > you see a film visualising an accelerating expanding universe
                                      > as a bunch of chairs (galaxies). A nice sequence which got me thinking that interactive panoramic videos would be useful tool for cosmology (and quantum mechanics) visualisations.
                                      >
                                      > Peter M
                                      >

                                      There is a site with interesting computer graphics movies showing relativistic vision distortions at near light speeds. Maybe some more mathematical list member can describe what perspective they resemble -- some kind of fisheye at least. They have flythroughs of a CG city at relativistic speeds that look very like what one could do with a fisheye movie rig.
                                      http://www.spacetimetravel.org/tuebingen/tuebingen.html
                                      http://www.spacetimetravel.org/filme/tue2/tue2.mov (7 meg)
                                    • Scott Witte
                                      ... Well, maybe not the 6 days part but consider this: The strongest contender for how THE universe is structured is String Theory. Included in that is the
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Sep 28, 2009
                                        Trausti Hraunfjord wrote:
                                        > I am pretty sure science will never find some white bearded santa...
                                        > errr...
                                        > big guy in a night-gown, who created the universe in 6 days or so...
                                        Well, maybe not the 6 days part but consider this: The strongest
                                        contender for how THE universe is structured is String Theory. Included
                                        in that is the concept of "branes" (membranes) or dimensions that
                                        usually remain separate. Should two branes collide it essentially
                                        ignites a "big bang" creating a new universe, parallel but unseen by
                                        other parallel universes such as ours. So, our universe would have been
                                        created by collision of two branes 15 billion years ago.

                                        The theory suggests that it may be possible to create such a brane
                                        collision and resultant new universe artificially. So who's to say that
                                        OUR universe isn't the result of some physics experiment in some other
                                        universe? And in a Universe of infinite parallel universes who's to say
                                        that physicist couldn't have been "some white bearded big guy in a
                                        night-gown"???

                                        Have I blown your mind?

                                        Seriously, check some links from this Google search
                                        <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=wOz&q=string+theory+branes+%28touch+OR+collide%29+create+universe&cts=1254157849192&aq=f&oq=&aqi=>.
                                        This really is current cosmology, leading scientific theory... with a
                                        little hypothetical extension. In no way shape or form should this be
                                        thought of as support for the usual creationist concept. It certainly
                                        isn't. Although, hypothetically, our universe could have a "creator".

                                        (Apologies if this offends any body's religious beliefs. If so, please
                                        just consider it a curious and hopefully fun what-if discussion.)



                                        --
                                        Scott Witte
                                        ---------------------------------
                                        *WITTE *ON* LOCATION*
                                        Advertising Photography <http://www.scottwitte.com>

                                        *TOUR* DE *FORCE*
                                        360 Virtual Tours <http://www.tourdeforce360.com/>

                                        414.345.9660
                                        Member, IVRPA




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Ken Warner
                                        No... you ve just rehashed 10% of every SciFi novel ever written...
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Sep 28, 2009
                                          No... you've just rehashed 10% of every SciFi novel ever written...

                                          Scott Witte wrote:

                                          >
                                          > Have I blown your mind?
                                          >
                                        • Trausti Hraunfjord
                                          ... and prohibited to discuss subjects... (freedom of speech is not a part of religious indoctrinations... which is not stange, considering that reilgions are
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Sep 28, 2009
                                            :) Quite possible... but I think we are onto one of the "shhhh it's tabu
                                            and prohibited to discuss" subjects... (freedom of speech is not a part of
                                            religious indoctrinations... which is not stange, considering that reilgions
                                            are dictatorial (one god (dictator) who can not be questioned etc.)

                                            ... so not a word more from me about that...

                                            String theory is interesting, branes theory too... but my time is
                                            limited.... thanks to the 24 hour limit supposedly applied by a night gown
                                            wearing old guy who needs more and more churches made, so his name can be
                                            praised... and so more church panoramas can be shot :)

                                            Trausti



                                            On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Scott Witte <scottwitte@...> wrote:

                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Trausti Hraunfjord wrote:
                                            > > I am pretty sure science will never find some white bearded santa...
                                            > > errr...
                                            > > big guy in a night-gown, who created the universe in 6 days or so...
                                            > Well, maybe not the 6 days part but consider this: The strongest
                                            > contender for how THE universe is structured is String Theory. Included
                                            > in that is the concept of "branes" (membranes) or dimensions that
                                            > usually remain separate. Should two branes collide it essentially
                                            > ignites a "big bang" creating a new universe, parallel but unseen by
                                            > other parallel universes such as ours. So, our universe would have been
                                            > created by collision of two branes 15 billion years ago.
                                            >
                                            > The theory suggests that it may be possible to create such a brane
                                            > collision and resultant new universe artificially. So who's to say that
                                            > OUR universe isn't the result of some physics experiment in some other
                                            > universe? And in a Universe of infinite parallel universes who's to say
                                            > that physicist couldn't have been "some white bearded big guy in a
                                            > night-gown"???
                                            >
                                            > Have I blown your mind?
                                            >
                                            > Seriously, check some links from this Google search
                                            > <
                                            > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=wOz&q=string+theory+branes+%28touch+OR+collide%29+create+universe&cts=1254157849192&aq=f&oq=&aqi=>.
                                            >
                                            > This really is current cosmology, leading scientific theory... with a
                                            > little hypothetical extension. In no way shape or form should this be
                                            > thought of as support for the usual creationist concept. It certainly
                                            > isn't. Although, hypothetically, our universe could have a "creator".
                                            >
                                            > (Apologies if this offends any body's religious beliefs. If so, please
                                            > just consider it a curious and hopefully fun what-if discussion.)
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > Scott Witte
                                            > ---------------------------------
                                            > *WITTE *ON* LOCATION*
                                            > Advertising Photography <http://www.scottwitte.com>
                                            >
                                            > *TOUR* DE *FORCE*
                                            > 360 Virtual Tours <http://www.tourdeforce360.com/>
                                            >
                                            > 414.345.9660
                                            > Member, IVRPA
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Ron Rack
                                            Geesh, sounds like Trausti has major hostilities toward religion , wonder if he a traumatic experience as a child or something, sounds like he doesn t really
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Sep 28, 2009
                                              Geesh, sounds like Trausti has major hostilities toward "religion",
                                              wonder if he a traumatic experience as a child or something, sounds
                                              like he doesn't really understand "religion" anyway.
                                              Lighten up.
                                              As to taboo, I don't think this subject is prohibited from the point
                                              of view of people with faith. However, I think that the most serious
                                              cases of dictatorial censorship and freedom of speech and freedom of
                                              thought cases come from the "intelligentsia" of the Colleges and
                                              Universities. These people are generally not open to conflicting views
                                              from their own at all... etc.
                                              Interestingly, Ben Stein did an interesting documentary on this
                                              subject last year. "Expelled" http://www.expelledthemovie.com/

                                              ronrack


                                              On Sep 28, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Trausti Hraunfjord wrote:

                                              > :) Quite possible... but I think we are onto one of the "shhhh it's
                                              > tabu
                                              > and prohibited to discuss" subjects... (freedom of speech is not a
                                              > part of
                                              > religious indoctrinations... which is not stange, considering that
                                              > reilgions
                                              > are dictatorial (one god (dictator) who can not be questioned etc.)
                                              >
                                              > ... so not a word more from me about that...
                                              >
                                              > String theory is interesting, branes theory too... but my time is
                                              > limited.... thanks to the 24 hour limit supposedly applied by a
                                              > night gown
                                              > wearing old guy who needs more and more churches made, so his name
                                              > can be
                                              > praised... and so more church panoramas can be shot :)
                                              >
                                              > Trausti
                                              >
                                              >



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Ken Warner
                                              Well, not only Trausti but me too. Religion has been, is and will be the source of more suffering and destruction of lives and societies than any other
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Sep 28, 2009
                                                Well, not only Trausti but me too. "Religion" has been, is and will
                                                be the source of more suffering and destruction of lives and societies
                                                than any other cause including acts of nature.

                                                More people have been killed, tortured and maimed because they believe
                                                in the "wrong" god or believe in the "right" god the wrong way than
                                                for every other reason.

                                                And if you think that, "...the most serious
                                                cases of dictatorial censorship and freedom of speech and freedom of
                                                thought cases come from the "intelligentsia" of the Colleges and
                                                Universities. " you've been watching FoxNEWS too much.

                                                Ron Rack wrote:
                                                > Geesh, sounds like Trausti has major hostilities toward "religion",
                                                > wonder if he a traumatic experience as a child or something, sounds
                                                > like he doesn't really understand "religion" anyway.
                                                > Lighten up.
                                                > As to taboo, I don't think this subject is prohibited from the point
                                                > of view of people with faith. However, I think that the most serious
                                                > cases of dictatorial censorship and freedom of speech and freedom of
                                                > thought cases come from the "intelligentsia" of the Colleges and
                                                > Universities. These people are generally not open to conflicting views
                                                > from their own at all... etc.
                                                > Interestingly, Ben Stein did an interesting documentary on this
                                                > subject last year. "Expelled" http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
                                                >
                                                > ronrack
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > On Sep 28, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Trausti Hraunfjord wrote:
                                                >
                                                >> :) Quite possible... but I think we are onto one of the "shhhh it's
                                                >> tabu
                                                >> and prohibited to discuss" subjects... (freedom of speech is not a
                                                >> part of
                                                >> religious indoctrinations... which is not stange, considering that
                                                >> reilgions
                                                >> are dictatorial (one god (dictator) who can not be questioned etc.)
                                                >>
                                                >> ... so not a word more from me about that...
                                                >>
                                                >> String theory is interesting, branes theory too... but my time is
                                                >> limited.... thanks to the 24 hour limit supposedly applied by a
                                                >> night gown
                                                >> wearing old guy who needs more and more churches made, so his name
                                                >> can be
                                                >> praised... and so more church panoramas can be shot :)
                                                >>
                                                >> Trausti
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • Keith Martin
                                                I have my own views on the subjects this thread is starting to cover, but this *really* isn t the place. Can we bring it back to panoramas? k
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Sep 28, 2009
                                                  I have my own views on the subjects this thread is starting to cover,
                                                  but this *really* isn't the place. Can we bring it back to panoramas?

                                                  k
                                                • Trausti Hraunfjord
                                                  Thank you for confirming what I said above. Going personal, assuming childhood trauma :) only proves my point about the intolerance religion is made of.
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Sep 28, 2009
                                                    Thank you for confirming what I said above.
                                                    Going personal, assuming childhood trauma :) only proves my point about the
                                                    intolerance religion is made of. (explains all the wars of the world)

                                                    :)

                                                    Let's enjoy panos, and don't be afraid of science... without science, no
                                                    cameras, no cameras, no panos. Not even with a lot of faith.

                                                    Trausti






                                                    On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Ron Rack <ronrack@...> wrote:

                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Geesh, sounds like Trausti has major hostilities toward "religion",
                                                    > wonder if he a traumatic experience as a child or something, sounds
                                                    > like he doesn't really understand "religion" anyway.
                                                    >


                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Roger D. Williams
                                                    Once upon a time I was a moderator, and may even still be a non-functional one. In that spirit may I ask that this discussion of religion be carried on in some
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Sep 28, 2009
                                                      Once upon a time I was a moderator, and may even still be a non-functional
                                                      one.

                                                      In that spirit may I ask that this discussion of religion be carried
                                                      on in some other place, preferably between the people who have already
                                                      posted?

                                                      I am tempted to reply to the following post, and if I did I would
                                                      probably mention Stalin and Hitler as rather heavily weighting the
                                                      other side of the equation for non-religious sources of suffering
                                                      and destruction. But I won't... <grin>

                                                      Roger W.


                                                      On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:06:42 +0900, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>
                                                      wrote:

                                                      > Well, not only Trausti but me too. "Religion" has been, is and will
                                                      > be the source of more suffering and destruction of lives and societies
                                                      > than any other cause including acts of nature.
                                                      >
                                                      > More people have been killed, tortured and maimed because they believe
                                                      > in the "wrong" god or believe in the "right" god the wrong way than
                                                      > for every other reason.
                                                      >
                                                      > And if you think that, "...the most serious
                                                      > cases of dictatorial censorship and freedom of speech and freedom of
                                                      > thought cases come from the "intelligentsia" of the Colleges and
                                                      > Universities. " you've been watching FoxNEWS too much.
                                                      >
                                                      > Ron Rack wrote:
                                                      >> Geesh, sounds like Trausti has major hostilities toward "religion",
                                                      >> wonder if he a traumatic experience as a child or something, sounds
                                                      >> like he doesn't really understand "religion" anyway.
                                                      >> Lighten up.
                                                      >> As to taboo, I don't think this subject is prohibited from the point
                                                      >> of view of people with faith. However, I think that the most serious
                                                      >> cases of dictatorial censorship and freedom of speech and freedom of
                                                      >> thought cases come from the "intelligentsia" of the Colleges and
                                                      >> Universities. These people are generally not open to conflicting views
                                                      >> from their own at all... etc.
                                                      >> Interestingly, Ben Stein did an interesting documentary on this
                                                      >> subject last year. "Expelled" http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
                                                      >>
                                                      >> ronrack
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Trausti Hraunfjord wrote:
                                                      >>
                                                      >>> :) Quite possible... but I think we are onto one of the "shhhh it's
                                                      >>> tabu
                                                      >>> and prohibited to discuss" subjects... (freedom of speech is not a
                                                      >>> part of
                                                      >>> religious indoctrinations... which is not stange, considering that
                                                      >>> reilgions
                                                      >>> are dictatorial (one god (dictator) who can not be questioned etc.)
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>> ... so not a word more from me about that...
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>> String theory is interesting, branes theory too... but my time is
                                                      >>> limited.... thanks to the 24 hour limit supposedly applied by a
                                                      >>> night gown
                                                      >>> wearing old guy who needs more and more churches made, so his name
                                                      >>> can be
                                                      >>> praised... and so more church panoramas can be shot :)
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>> Trausti
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------------------------------
                                                      >


                                                      --
                                                      Business: www.adex-japan.com
                                                      Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                                                    • Ken Warner
                                                      Remember, Hitler was a Christian...
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Sep 28, 2009
                                                        Remember, Hitler was a Christian...


                                                        Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                                        > Once upon a time I was a moderator, and may even still be a non-functional
                                                        > one.
                                                        >
                                                        > In that spirit may I ask that this discussion of religion be carried
                                                        > on in some other place, preferably between the people who have already
                                                        > posted?
                                                        >
                                                        > I am tempted to reply to the following post, and if I did I would
                                                        > probably mention Stalin and Hitler as rather heavily weighting the
                                                        > other side of the equation for non-religious sources of suffering
                                                        > and destruction. But I won't... <grin>
                                                        >
                                                        > Roger W.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:06:42 +0900, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...>
                                                        > wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >> Well, not only Trausti but me too. "Religion" has been, is and will
                                                        >> be the source of more suffering and destruction of lives and societies
                                                        >> than any other cause including acts of nature.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> More people have been killed, tortured and maimed because they believe
                                                        >> in the "wrong" god or believe in the "right" god the wrong way than
                                                        >> for every other reason.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> And if you think that, "...the most serious
                                                        >> cases of dictatorial censorship and freedom of speech and freedom of
                                                        >> thought cases come from the "intelligentsia" of the Colleges and
                                                        >> Universities. " you've been watching FoxNEWS too much.
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Ron Rack wrote:
                                                        >>> Geesh, sounds like Trausti has major hostilities toward "religion",
                                                        >>> wonder if he a traumatic experience as a child or something, sounds
                                                        >>> like he doesn't really understand "religion" anyway.
                                                        >>> Lighten up.
                                                        >>> As to taboo, I don't think this subject is prohibited from the point
                                                        >>> of view of people with faith. However, I think that the most serious
                                                        >>> cases of dictatorial censorship and freedom of speech and freedom of
                                                        >>> thought cases come from the "intelligentsia" of the Colleges and
                                                        >>> Universities. These people are generally not open to conflicting views
                                                        >>> from their own at all... etc.
                                                        >>> Interestingly, Ben Stein did an interesting documentary on this
                                                        >>> subject last year. "Expelled" http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>> ronrack
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>> On Sep 28, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Trausti Hraunfjord wrote:
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>>> :) Quite possible... but I think we are onto one of the "shhhh it's
                                                        >>>> tabu
                                                        >>>> and prohibited to discuss" subjects... (freedom of speech is not a
                                                        >>>> part of
                                                        >>>> religious indoctrinations... which is not stange, considering that
                                                        >>>> reilgions
                                                        >>>> are dictatorial (one god (dictator) who can not be questioned etc.)
                                                        >>>>
                                                        >>>> ... so not a word more from me about that...
                                                        >>>>
                                                        >>>> String theory is interesting, branes theory too... but my time is
                                                        >>>> limited.... thanks to the 24 hour limit supposedly applied by a
                                                        >>>> night gown
                                                        >>>> wearing old guy who needs more and more churches made, so his name
                                                        >>>> can be
                                                        >>>> praised... and so more church panoramas can be shot :)
                                                        >>>>
                                                        >>>> Trausti
                                                        >>>>
                                                        >>>>
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>
                                                        >> ------------------------------------
                                                        >>
                                                        >
                                                        >
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