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Canon 7D or SONY Alpha 850 - which one would you buy?

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  • yuval_levy
    Hi all, This time I *must* upgrade my kit. It s a requirement for a job I landed and the budget pays for it. HDR, partial panoramas, long focal distance. I
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 25, 2009
      Hi all,

      This time I *must* upgrade my kit. It's a requirement for a job I landed and the budget pays for it. HDR, partial panoramas, long focal distance.

      I currently use a Canon 350D. From the pre-digital era I am a long time Minolta user and have some good glass, flash, accessories.

      In the meantime Minolta sold to SONY and the Alpha 850 seems a nice proposition (with reservation about the brand. The memory stick stuff is pathetic).

      My 350D kit was used mainly for the production of web-based material, particularly full spherical panoramas (7000x3500). It's still the old Sigma 8mm F/4, complemented with very cheap Sigma APS-C lenses just to have something in the range up to 200mm for the occasional use (and with Hugin I can nicely correct them to perfect rectilinear).

      Besides the specific job, my interests have shifted to higher resolutions (large prints) and partial multi-row panoramas for large prints, so I will want better glass than I have now in the range of 20mm-200mm. I still do web-based full sphericals occasionally and if I had to change something for that application it would rather be the lens than the camera body.

      From my starting point I'd have to shell out more money on the Canon to reach the same quality of glass as on the SONY (and if I did, I could as well go 5D MkII?) - and that extra money is not in the budget. The body (including 5D MkII if I wanted) is.

      What I like about the 7D is 8FPS continuous mode and 1.0x viewfinder magnification.

      The a850 has only 3FPS (but is full frame, and the a900, which I also could still get through the budget, has 5FPS which is better than the 5D MkII).

      What worries me a little about the a850 (and a900) is the noise at high ISO (compared to the 5D MkII). But isn't that an even bigger problem for the 7D (with 18mpx crammed on an APS-C sensor)? Anybody has some experience in low light with the SONYs?

      Exposure Bracketing seems to be a weakness of both contenders. I had considered a Pentax K-7, but that would be a completely new system with plenty of components to buy right from the start, not just the body. And there would be other brands and models to consider too. I am open for suggestions.

      Has anybody made any experience with SONY Alpha 550 and its HDR mode? but anyway, it is not present on the a850 (nor on the a950).

      Which brings me back to the original choice: Canon 7D or SONY Alpha 850?

      Yuv
    • Thomas Krueger
      My vote goes for Sony 850 because of the resolution and the full frame sensor. There are still no tests around, but the body of the Sony 900 beats the Canon
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 25, 2009
        My vote goes for Sony 850 because of the resolution and the full frame
        sensor. There are still no tests around, but the body of the Sony 900 beats
        the Canon 5D MKII in quality and weather proofness. Also the Sony 900 has an
        excellent viewfinder.

        You should wait for the first test from various websites.


        -----
        Greetings, Thomas - http://www.thomaskrueger.eu thomaskrueger.eu
        --
        View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Canon-7D-or-SONY-Alpha-850---which-one-would-you-buy--tp25621813p25622372.html
        Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
      • ptgroup
        I would look for the lens requiered. The Tokina ATX (my favourite one) is only available for Nikon & Canon. So are some others (Sigma 8mm...). That should be
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 26, 2009
          I would look for the lens requiered.
          The Tokina ATX (my favourite one) is only available for Nikon & Canon.
          So are some others (Sigma 8mm...).

          That should be regarded too.
          Ciao
          Mike

          360? VR Fotografie:
          http://www.360de.de

          NEU: Abstrakte Fotografie unter:
          http://www.abstraktfoto.de
          -----------------------------
          Aktuelles vom Virtugrafen:
          http://virtugraf.wordpress.com
          -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
          Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
          Auftrag von Thomas Krueger
          Gesendet: Samstag, 26. September 2009 07:04
          An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Betreff: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Canon 7D or SONY Alpha 850 - which one would
          you buy?



          My vote goes for Sony 850 because of the resolution and the full frame
          sensor. There are still no tests around, but the body of the Sony 900
          beats
          the Canon 5D MKII in quality and weather proofness. Also the Sony 900 has
          an
          excellent viewfinder.

          You should wait for the first test from various websites.

          -----
          Greetings, Thomas - http://www.thomaskrueger.eu thomaskrueger.eu
          --
          View this message in context:
          http://www.nabble.com/Canon-7D-or-SONY-Alpha-850---which-one-would-you-buy--
          tp25621813p25622372.html
          Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • luca vascon
          Two cameras that are too brand new to be so much well known. If you install camera4you or breeze you would be able to control, fully, the bracketing on Canons.
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 26, 2009
            Two cameras that are too brand new to be so much well known.
            If you install camera4you or breeze you would be able to control, fully, the
            bracketing on Canons. Consider the expense for the small 6cell Samsung
            netbook to control it.
            24Mp sensor really NEEDS state of the art lenses and really heavy and dumb
            tripod.
            the white 80-200 2.8 Canon turned out to be a shitlens on 1Ds mk3.
            On a Canon you can fit a 300mm f4 Zeiss Tele Tessar, or some Leica
            Apo-Telyt.
            Then, tripod. I mean, that if you are shooting in the 300mm range, a video
            tripod like Satchler, Cartoni, or a Berlebach WITHOUT center column, and a
            good geared head (I suspect the 2 manfrottos only) are to be used together
            with mirror lifted up.
            Noise is only one of the enemies.

            A 18mpx apsc is taking those pixel only in the very center area of a tele
            lens, that is always far superior.
            Long teles for their nature have more vignetting and distorsion, and some CA
            in borders.
            Their first use is for sport takes, nature and landscape. So their projekt
            task is according!!

            2009/9/26 ptgroup <ptgroup@...>

            >
            >
            > I would look for the lens requiered.
            > The Tokina ATX (my favourite one) is only available for Nikon & Canon.
            > So are some others (Sigma 8mm...).
            >
            > That should be regarded too.
            > Ciao
            > Mike
            >
            > 360? VR Fotografie:
            > http://www.360de.de
            >
            > NEU: Abstrakte Fotografie unter:
            > http://www.abstraktfoto.de
            > -----------------------------
            > Aktuelles vom Virtugrafen:
            > http://virtugraf.wordpress.com
            > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
            > Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
            > PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>]Im
            > Auftrag von Thomas Krueger
            > Gesendet: Samstag, 26. September 2009 07:04
            > An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Betreff: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Canon 7D or SONY Alpha 850 - which one would
            > you buy?
            >
            >
            > My vote goes for Sony 850 because of the resolution and the full frame
            > sensor. There are still no tests around, but the body of the Sony 900
            > beats
            > the Canon 5D MKII in quality and weather proofness. Also the Sony 900 has
            > an
            > excellent viewfinder.
            >
            > You should wait for the first test from various websites.
            >
            > -----
            > Greetings, Thomas - http://www.thomaskrueger.eu thomaskrueger.eu
            > --
            > View this message in context:
            >
            > http://www.nabble.com/Canon-7D-or-SONY-Alpha-850---which-one-would-you-buy--
            > tp25621813p25622372.html
            > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >



            --
            Luca Vascon.

            www.canalview.it
            www.officinepanottiche.com


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • robert_harshman
            ... Either Camera should do fine and will not make a difference in how the job goes, or how good of photos you get now or in the future. Today s modern
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 26, 2009
              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "yuval_levy" <yahoo08@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi all,
              >
              > This time I *must* upgrade my kit. It's a requirement for a job I landed and the budget pays for it. HDR, partial panoramas, long focal distance.
              >

              Either Camera should do fine and will not make a difference in how the job goes, or how good of photos' you get now or in the future.

              Today's modern digitals whether from Sony, or Canon or Nikon or Pentek are all quite good enough. The image quality from any one of them is so good that it's not going to be the camera that stops you from making a great image. This is true even with the kit lenses in general, todays kit lense would have been a wonder lens 20 years ago.

              You have some level of old glass for the Sony, depending on the age, condition and lens it may or may not be useful. Its' probable that it will not use autofocus if that matters, and may not be as good as a modern kit lense zoom. Hard to say without knowing the specifics.

              Based on what I've seen either choice would be nice to have.

              Good luck!

              Robert
            • Keith Martin
              ... Or to put it another way, the 24MP sensor is able to resolve enough to reveal the limits of many lenses. But this means that you have pushed quality (in
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 26, 2009
                Sometime around 26/9/09 (at 14:08 +0200) luca vascon said:

                >24Mp sensor really NEEDS state of the art lenses and really heavy and dumb
                >tripod.

                Or to put it another way, the 24MP sensor is able to resolve enough
                to reveal the limits of many lenses. But this means that you have
                pushed quality (in resolution terms at least) up so that the limiting
                factor is (in many cases) the lens rather than the sensor.

                I know this is simplifying things massively, but I've seen people
                misunderstand your point above (about lenses and the Sony/Nikon 24MP
                sensor) and believe that the higher-resolution sensor was
                specifically *inferior* compared with a lower-res one unless you
                bought a top-notch bit of glass.

                k
              • luca vascon
                ;-) Do not forget the micro shaking. Who ever worked in its life with Agfa APX25 knows what I mean. 24 megapixel sensor is right having to deal with something
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 26, 2009
                  ;-)

                  Do not forget the micro shaking.
                  Who ever worked in its life with Agfa APX25 knows what I mean.
                  24 megapixel sensor is right having to deal with something like that.
                  That is linked to resolution, of coutse, not to sensitivity.
                  In a matter of linear resolution that film was even higher, but more
                  forgiving due to the pattern of silver oxide.
                  Regular squared pixel pattern, instead, is unforgiving on monitors.

                  PLEASE KEEP IN MIND PRINTS ARE DIFFERENT!!

                  We are nyche photographers.
                  What we do is seen on computer and in no other way people wants to be able
                  to zoom till pixel limit.

                  Luca, that bought a Zeiss ZF for the D700.

                  2009/9/26 Keith Martin <keith@...>

                  >
                  >
                  > Sometime around 26/9/09 (at 14:08 +0200) luca vascon said:
                  >
                  > >24Mp sensor really NEEDS state of the art lenses and really heavy and dumb
                  > >tripod.
                  >
                  > Or to put it another way, the 24MP sensor is able to resolve enough
                  > to reveal the limits of many lenses. But this means that you have
                  > pushed quality (in resolution terms at least) up so that the limiting
                  > factor is (in many cases) the lens rather than the sensor.
                  >
                  > I know this is simplifying things massively, but I've seen people
                  > misunderstand your point above (about lenses and the Sony/Nikon 24MP
                  > sensor) and believe that the higher-resolution sensor was
                  > specifically *inferior* compared with a lower-res one unless you
                  > bought a top-notch bit of glass.
                  >
                  > k
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  Luca Vascon.

                  www.canalview.it
                  www.officinepanottiche.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • yuval_levy
                  ... I m looking at some samples and resolution charts (see links below) and frankly, while I do see some difference, it s minor IMO. Probably because Luca is
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 26, 2009
                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Krueger <krueger@...> wrote:
                    > resolution

                    I'm looking at some samples and resolution charts (see links below) and frankly, while I do see some difference, it's minor IMO. Probably because Luca is right.


                    > the full frame sensor.

                    the ability to control the depth of field! After a long time I recently exposed again a roll of 35mm film. What a feeling!


                    > You should wait for the first test from various websites.

                    Imaging resources has out of camera pictures. For the 7D they are pre-production. You will have to download the originals and look at them with Exiftool to know what lens they used.

                    EF50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro +LSC for the Canon's still nature image
                    Minolta AF 100-300mm F4.5-5.6 (APO D) for the comparable SONY.

                    http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

                    those are, however, ideal test conditions.

                    looking at them I'm inclined for the SONY.


                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "ptgroup" <ptgroup@...> wrote:
                    > I would look for the lens requiered.
                    > The Tokina ATX (my favourite one) is only available for Nikon &
                    > Canon. So are some others (Sigma 8mm...).

                    Indeed, the lens is *the* critical factor in most decisions.

                    I'm not really looking for a fisheye on this project. If I was, the Tokina ATX is one of my favorites as well, although I doubt that these lenses are sharp enough to feed an 18mpx APS-C sensor. It would be just pixels, not detail.

                    Also for full spherical "web resolution" panoramas I don't need qualities such as the viewfinder or a high FPS. A 7D would be overkill for the job. For the same money I can buy a 500D and have some pocket money left.


                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, luca vascon <luca.vascon@...> wrote:
                    > Two cameras that are too brand new to be so much well known.
                    > If you install camera4you or breeze you would be able to control,
                    > fully, the bracketing on Canons. Consider the expense for the small
                    > 6cell Samsung netbook to control it.

                    not an option. I'm not shooting in a studio or indoor, and I refuse to lug around more stuff just because of stupid camera maker that are not able to implement such simple features in-camera. I use a much smaller and lighter thing than a netbook to control the camera.

                    Yuv
                  • luca vascon
                    So.. They hacked 5Dmk2 firmware... ... this is a good reason to buy the camera. Atx 107 by Tokina... Well. At 17 mm gave rather unimpressive result on a
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 26, 2009
                      So..
                      They hacked 5Dmk2 firmware...
                      :-D
                      this is a good reason to buy the camera.
                      Atx 107 by Tokina...
                      Well.
                      At 17 mm gave rather unimpressive result on a 1dsmk3.
                      Week borders and unimpressive center.
                      The Contax zeiss 16mm was the beast to beat.
                      The 15mm Sigma behaved surprisingly good. SO good, I've to say that was
                      really few steps behind the Contax.

                      50mm 2.5 compact macro is not a test lens. It is on Canon's standards, the
                      reason why I never liked Canon.
                      Nothing better than average.
                      Canon primes sucks.

                      2009/9/26 yuval_levy <yahoo08@...>

                      >
                      >
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Thomas
                      > Krueger <krueger@...> wrote:
                      > > resolution
                      >
                      > I'm looking at some samples and resolution charts (see links below) and
                      > frankly, while I do see some difference, it's minor IMO. Probably because
                      > Luca is right.
                      >
                      > > the full frame sensor.
                      >
                      > the ability to control the depth of field! After a long time I recently
                      > exposed again a roll of 35mm film. What a feeling!
                      >
                      >
                      > > You should wait for the first test from various websites.
                      >
                      > Imaging resources has out of camera pictures. For the 7D they are
                      > pre-production. You will have to download the originals and look at them
                      > with Exiftool to know what lens they used.
                      >
                      > EF50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro +LSC for the Canon's still nature image
                      > Minolta AF 100-300mm F4.5-5.6 (APO D) for the comparable SONY.
                      >
                      > http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM
                      >
                      > those are, however, ideal test conditions.
                      >
                      > looking at them I'm inclined for the SONY.
                      >
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > "ptgroup" <ptgroup@...> wrote:
                      > > I would look for the lens requiered.
                      > > The Tokina ATX (my favourite one) is only available for Nikon &
                      > > Canon. So are some others (Sigma 8mm...).
                      >
                      > Indeed, the lens is *the* critical factor in most decisions.
                      >
                      > I'm not really looking for a fisheye on this project. If I was, the Tokina
                      > ATX is one of my favorites as well, although I doubt that these lenses are
                      > sharp enough to feed an 18mpx APS-C sensor. It would be just pixels, not
                      > detail.
                      >
                      > Also for full spherical "web resolution" panoramas I don't need qualities
                      > such as the viewfinder or a high FPS. A 7D would be overkill for the job.
                      > For the same money I can buy a 500D and have some pocket money left.
                      >
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, luca
                      > vascon <luca.vascon@...> wrote:
                      > > Two cameras that are too brand new to be so much well known.
                      > > If you install camera4you or breeze you would be able to control,
                      > > fully, the bracketing on Canons. Consider the expense for the small
                      > > 6cell Samsung netbook to control it.
                      >
                      > not an option. I'm not shooting in a studio or indoor, and I refuse to lug
                      > around more stuff just because of stupid camera maker that are not able to
                      > implement such simple features in-camera. I use a much smaller and lighter
                      > thing than a netbook to control the camera.
                      >
                      > Yuv
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      --
                      Luca Vascon.

                      www.canalview.it
                      www.officinepanottiche.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • bigwade
                      ... link ?? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Canon-7D-or-SONY-Alpha-850---which-one-would-you-buy--tp25621813p25629577.html Sent from the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 26, 2009
                        luca vascon-3 wrote:
                        >
                        > So..
                        > They hacked 5Dmk2 firmware...
                        >

                        link ??

                        --
                        View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Canon-7D-or-SONY-Alpha-850---which-one-would-you-buy--tp25621813p25629577.html
                        Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                      • Hans
                        ... http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Lantern_Firmware_Wiki read manual http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Lantern_0.1.6_User_Manual Hans
                        Message 11 of 13 , Sep 26, 2009
                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, bigwade <celsius@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > luca vascon-3 wrote:
                          > >
                          > > So..
                          > > They hacked 5Dmk2 firmware...
                          > >
                          >
                          > link ??
                          >

                          http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Lantern_Firmware_Wiki

                          read manual
                          http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Lantern_0.1.6_User_Manual

                          Hans
                        • panovrx
                          ... But note the main feature of interest to panoramists -- viz. extended bracketing -- doesnt work in Manual yet, only A, S and P. The programmable focusing
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 26, 2009
                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@...> wrote:

                            > > > They hacked 5Dmk2 firmware...

                            > http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Lantern_Firmware_Wiki
                            >
                            > read manual
                            > http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Lantern_0.1.6_User_Manual
                            >
                            > Hans
                            >
                            But note the main feature of interest to panoramists -- viz. extended bracketing -- doesnt work in Manual yet, only A, S and P. The programmable focusing moves and and sound recording features are the best features for video recording with it I think.

                            Peter M
                          • luca vascon
                            OK OK!!! I GOT IT! ... 2009/9/27 Keith Martin ... -- Luca Vascon. www.canalview.it www.officinepanottiche.com [Non-text portions of this
                            Message 13 of 13 , Sep 27, 2009
                              OK OK!!!
                              I GOT IT!
                              :-DD

                              :-)

                              2009/9/27 Keith Martin <keith@...>

                              >
                              >
                              > Sometime around 27/9/09 (at 09:16 +0200) luca vascon said:
                              >
                              > >promote is nikon only...
                              >
                              > Some Promote Systems products are Nikon only, but the Promote Control
                              > works with Canon as well - as long as you order the right cables.
                              > Here's a bit from the Promote web site
                              > (https://www.promotesystems.com/products/Promote-Control.html):
                              >
                              > -----
                              >
                              > Compatibility
                              >
                              > The Promote Control is compatible with digital cameras supporting an
                              > industry standard PTP/MTP protocol for controlling camera functions
                              > over USB interface. A non-exhaustive list of supported cameras
                              > includes the following brands and models:
                              >
                              > Nikon: D3, D3X, D2X, D2Xs, D2H, D2Hs, D200, D300, D700, D40, D40x,
                              > D50, D60, D70, D70s, D80, D90, D5000
                              >
                              > Canon: 1D Mark III, 1Ds Mark III, 5D Mark II, 30D, 40D, 50D, 400D,
                              > 450D, 500D, 1000D
                              >
                              > NOTE 1: Canon 5D Mk I, 1D/1Ds Mk I and 1D/1Ds Mk II cameras are not
                              > supported in HDR mode. Only basic operations such as One-Shot,
                              > Time-Lapse and Manual Hold are available on these cameras, and would
                              > require a CN3 cable to be connected. Canon 5D Mark II and 1D/1Ds Mark
                              > III cameras are fully supported, including HDR mode.
                              >
                              > NOTE 2: On Canon 5D Mark II the longest automatic HDR exposure is
                              > limited to 30 seconds due to mechanical Bulb mode activation. A
                              > future Promote Control firmware update will prompt to activate Bulb
                              > mode manually as required. At this time using a higher ISO setting is
                              > recommended with Canon 5D Mark II if an exposure longer than 30
                              > seconds is required in HDR mode.
                              >
                              > -----
                              >
                              > (It is interesting to see the difference between the original Canon
                              > 5D and the 5D mkII; only basic ops on the older model.)
                              >
                              > I should be reviewing this for MacUser very soon. USPS tracking says
                              > 'delivery attempted' at the office...
                              >
                              > k
                              >
                              >



                              --
                              Luca Vascon.

                              www.canalview.it
                              www.officinepanottiche.com


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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