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New to 360 Pano - looking for site that had lens samples?

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  • johngibbel
    I am looking for a site that showed sample s 360 pano s shot with different lenses in a bike shop? Anyone have a link? I just purchased a Nikon D700 RRS
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 5, 2009
      I am looking for a site that showed sample's 360 pano's shot with different lenses in a bike shop? Anyone have a link?

      I just purchased a

      Nikon D700
      RRS Ultimate-Pro Omni-Pivot Package

      and still need to see what lens works. I posted a test with a rented nikon 14-24 shot with a D700.

      http://www.johngibbel.com/udr/Unit_119.mov

      John

      www.Johngibbel.com
    • peterstephensphotography
      Hi John, it s on the 360 Precision website - http://www.360precision.com/ Cheers, Pete Peter Stephens Photography www.peterstephens.co.uk
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 5, 2009
        Hi John, it's on the 360 Precision website - http://www.360precision.com/


        Cheers,

        Pete

        Peter Stephens Photography
        www.peterstephens.co.uk

        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "johngibbel" <newsgroups@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am looking for a site that showed sample's 360 pano's shot with different lenses in a bike shop? Anyone have a link?
        >
        > I just purchased a
        >
        > Nikon D700
        > RRS Ultimate-Pro Omni-Pivot Package
        >
        > and still need to see what lens works. I posted a test with a rented nikon 14-24 shot with a D700.
        >
        > http://www.johngibbel.com/udr/Unit_119.mov
        >
        > John
        >
        > www.Johngibbel.com
        >
      • Hans Nyberg
        ... http://www.360precision.com/360/index.cfm?precision=products.camlensinfolist Hans
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 5, 2009
          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "johngibbel" <newsgroups@...> wrote:
          >
          > I am looking for a site that showed sample's 360 pano's shot with different lenses in a bike shop? Anyone have a link?
          >

          http://www.360precision.com/360/index.cfm?precision=products.camlensinfolist

          Hans
        • johngibbel
          Thats the site thank you. Now I just need to see what lens to get with the D700. Anyone shooting with a D700? my test mov was shot with the 14 - 24, 2 rows.
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 5, 2009
            Thats the site thank you.

            Now I just need to see what lens to get with the D700. Anyone shooting with a D700? my test mov was shot with the 14 - 24, 2 rows. Maybe the 10.5 would be the lens to try next? I also have a 17mm wide zoom.

            >
            > http://www.360precision.com/360/index.cfm?precision=products.camlensinfolist
            >
            > Hans
            >
          • Uri Cogan
            ... I have been using a shaved 10.5mm Nikon lens with the D700 and a Nodal Ninja 3 MkII pano head. Generally, I use 4 shots all around, one up and one down,
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 5, 2009
              johngibbel wrote:
              >
              > Now I just need to see what lens to get with the D700. Anyone shooting
              > with a D700? my test mov was shot with the 14 - 24, 2 rows. Maybe the
              > 10.5 would be the lens to try next? I also have a 17mm wide zoom.
              >








              I have been using a "shaved" 10.5mm Nikon lens with the D700 and a Nodal
              Ninja 3 MkII pano head.

              Generally, I use 4 shots all around, one up and one down, but I've also
              created some good panoramas with just 4 shots all around. for an example
              of my latest panorama, shot with that combo, go to:

              http://www.uricogan.com/qtvr/bridge_1.html

              The example that you provided, a test with a rented nikon 14-24 shot
              with a D700.

              http://www.johngibbel.com/udr/Unit_119.mov
              <http://www.johngibbel.com/udr/Unit_119.mov>

              Looks pretty bad to me; too many bad stitches probably due to parallax
              errors, distortion, and lens flare. Did you align the lens correctly to
              the pano head, and what software did you use to stitch the thing?

              Uri.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • AYRTON
              ... What a gorgeous view Uri Thanks for sharing Beautiful cheers AYRTON ... + 55 21 9982 6313 http://ayrton360.com follow me : http://twitter.com/ayrton360
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 5, 2009
                On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Uri Cogan <uri@...> wrote:

                >
                > I have been using a "shaved" 10.5mm Nikon lens with the D700 and a Nodal
                > Ninja 3 MkII pano head.
                >
                > Generally, I use 4 shots all around, one up and one down, but I've also
                > created some good panoramas with just 4 shots all around. for an example
                > of my latest panorama, shot with that combo, go to:
                >
                > http://www.uricogan.com/qtvr/bridge_1.html



                What a gorgeous view Uri
                Thanks for sharing
                Beautiful


                cheers
                AYRTON


                ------------
                | A Y R |
                | T O N |
                ------------
                + 55 21 9982 6313
                http://ayrton360.com
                follow me :
                http://twitter.com/ayrton360


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Trausti Hraunfjord
                Thing? It s a thing... and not a Pano? :) No offense intended. My first attempts at panos a few years back were much much worse. Trausti ... [Non-text
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 5, 2009
                  Thing? It's a thing... and not a Pano? :)

                  No offense intended. My first attempts at panos a few years back were much
                  much worse.

                  Trausti

                  On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Uri Cogan <uri@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > ................. and what software did you use to stitch the thing?
                  >
                  > Uri.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • johngibbel
                  It looks like the 10.5 might be the best route to go. I have seen a few post regarding shaving the lens. I assume you mean the lens barrel? What happens if
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 5, 2009
                    It looks like the 10.5 might be the best route to go. I have seen a few post regarding shaving the lens. I assume you mean the lens barrel? What happens if you don't shave the lens barrel? If I rent the lens to test this is not an option. If I just buy the lens, do you have a picture you could share of the shaved lens?

                    Thanks again

                    John


                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Uri Cogan <uri@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > I have been using a "shaved" 10.5mm Nikon lens with the D700 and a Nodal
                    > Ninja 3 MkII pano head.
                    >
                    > Generally, I use 4 shots all around, one up and one down, but I've also
                    > created some good panoramas with just 4 shots all around. for an example
                    > of my latest panorama, shot with that combo, go to:
                    >
                    > http://www.uricogan.com/qtvr/bridge_1.html
                    >

                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Roger D. Williams
                    On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:15:53 +0900, johngibbel ... John, a very good and slightly less expensive, certainly less troublesome,
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 5, 2009
                      On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:15:53 +0900, johngibbel <newsgroups@...>
                      wrote:

                      > It looks like the 10.5 might be the best route to go. I have seen a few
                      > post regarding shaving the lens. I assume you mean the lens barrel?
                      > What happens if you don't shave the lens barrel? If I rent the lens to
                      > test this is not an option. If I just buy the lens, do you have a
                      > picture you could share of the shaved lens?

                      John, a very good and slightly less expensive, certainly less troublesome,
                      alternative is the Sigma 8mm f/3.5 lens (NOT the earlier f/4.0 version).

                      This is designed for full-frame cameras, so it will give you the full
                      circular "frame" of the circular fisheye without needing the lens hood
                      (not the barrel, by the way) to be shaved.

                      I use and love the 10.5mm Nikon and sometimes, in a very few circumstances,
                      I can see that it is slightly better than the Sigma, but it is a very close
                      thing.

                      I use the Sigma mostly on a 1.5x factor Digital camera, not full-frame.
                      In terms of eventual image (max) size and definition 8mm/10.5mm are well
                      matched. Shaving the lens hood off a lens is an idea that simply doesn't
                      appeal to me, although I know many have done it, or had it done for them,
                      with great success. I just thought you might like to have an alternative.

                      Roger W.


                      --
                      Work: www.adex-japan.com
                    • AYRTON
                      2009/8/6 Roger D. Williams ... NOooooo ! he s gonna be loosing definition, loosing pixels, having much more trouble than happiness !!!
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 5, 2009
                        2009/8/6 Roger D. Williams <roger@...>

                        > John, a very good and slightly less expensive, certainly less troublesome,
                        > alternative is the Sigma 8mm f/3.5 lens (NOT the earlier f/4.0 version).
                        > This is designed for full-frame cameras, so it will give you the full
                        > circular "frame" of the circular fisheye without needing the lens hood
                        > (not the barrel, by the way) to be shaved.


                        NOooooo !

                        he's gonna be loosing definition,
                        loosing pixels,
                        having much more trouble than happiness !!!

                        The sigma 8mm it's not to be used with fullframe cameras if one wants to
                        make panos.




                        >
                        >
                        > I use and love the 10.5mm Nikon and sometimes, in a very few circumstances,
                        > I can see that it is slightly better than the Sigma, but it is a very close
                        > thing.
                        >
                        > I use the Sigma mostly on a 1.5x factor Digital camera, not full-frame.
                        > In terms of eventual image (max) size and definition 8mm/10.5mm are well
                        > matched. Shaving the lens hood off a lens is an idea that simply doesn't
                        > appeal to me, although I know many have done it, or had it done for them,
                        > with great success. I just thought you might like to have an alternative.
                        >
                        > Roger W.
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Work: www.adex-japan.com
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > --
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        --
                        ------------
                        | A Y R |
                        | T O N |
                        ------------
                        + 55 21 9982 6313
                        http://ayrton360.com
                        follow me :
                        http://twitter.com/ayrton360


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Roger D. Williams
                        ... Why so negative, Ayrton? If you use the Nikon 10.5mm shaved you are essentially using the circular area in the center of the full-frame image, exactly what
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 6, 2009
                          On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:46:07 +0900, AYRTON <avi@...> wrote:

                          > 2009/8/6 Roger D. Williams <roger@...>
                          >
                          >> John, a very good and slightly less expensive, certainly less
                          >> troublesome,
                          >> alternative is the Sigma 8mm f/3.5 lens (NOT the earlier f/4.0 version).
                          >> This is designed for full-frame cameras, so it will give you the full
                          >> circular "frame" of the circular fisheye without needing the lens hood
                          >> (not the barrel, by the way) to be shaved.
                          >
                          >
                          > NOooooo !
                          >
                          > he's gonna be loosing definition,
                          > loosing pixels,
                          > having much more trouble than happiness !!!
                          >
                          > The sigma 8mm it's not to be used with fullframe cameras if one wants to
                          > make panos.


                          Why so negative, Ayrton? If you use the Nikon 10.5mm shaved you are
                          essentially using the circular area in the center of the full-frame
                          image, exactly what you get with the Sigma 8mm. I don't think the
                          difference betweeen 8 and 10.5 is as big as you seem to think,
                          especially as the extreme edges of the 10.5mm image are virtually
                          unusable.

                          I have seen beautiful panoramas created from both lenses using full
                          frame cameras, as you probably have if you pause to think back a bit.

                          So what's the big deal?

                          The advantage of the Sigma is that it is designed from the start as a
                          full-frame lens, unlike the 10.5 which is designed for SP-C 1.5x
                          cameras and has to be shaved before it can even be used at all with
                          a full-frame camera. That surely counts for something. It does with
                          me, anyway...

                          John, since you can CERTAINLY hire and try a Sigma without prejudice,
                          why not give it a whirl? You might find it just the job!

                          Roger W.


                          --
                          Work: www.adex-japan.com
                        • Hans Nyberg
                          ... Difference is resolution. Which actually makes the difference between a 1280x800 monitor and a 1600x1000 Today screen sizes increases with a speed which
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 6, 2009
                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:46:07 +0900, AYRTON <avi@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > 2009/8/6 Roger D. Williams <roger@...>
                            > >
                            > >> John, a very good and slightly less expensive, certainly less
                            > >> troublesome,
                            > >> alternative is the Sigma 8mm f/3.5 lens (NOT the earlier f/4.0 version).
                            > >> This is designed for full-frame cameras, so it will give you the full
                            > >> circular "frame" of the circular fisheye without needing the lens hood
                            > >> (not the barrel, by the way) to be shaved.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > NOooooo !
                            > >
                            > > he's gonna be loosing definition,
                            > > loosing pixels,
                            > > having much more trouble than happiness !!!
                            > >
                            > > The sigma 8mm it's not to be used with fullframe cameras if one wants to
                            > > make panos.
                            >
                            >
                            > Why so negative, Ayrton? If you use the Nikon 10.5mm shaved you are
                            > essentially using the circular area in the center of the full-frame
                            > image, exactly what you get with the Sigma 8mm. I don't think the
                            > difference betweeen 8 and 10.5 is as big as you seem to think,
                            > especially as the extreme edges of the 10.5mm image are virtually
                            > unusable.
                            >
                            > I have seen beautiful panoramas created from both lenses using full
                            > frame cameras, as you probably have if you pause to think back a bit.
                            >
                            > So what's the big deal?

                            Difference is resolution.

                            Which actually makes the difference between a 1280x800 monitor and a 1600x1000

                            Today screen sizes increases with a speed which needs you to look forward and produce your panos at sizes much larger than just 2 years ago.

                            Remember that Flash now has real full fullscreen also which most of us use and that is much larger than you get with a resized window with menus.

                            Hans


                            >
                            > The advantage of the Sigma is that it is designed from the start as a
                            > full-frame lens, unlike the 10.5 which is designed for SP-C 1.5x
                            > cameras and has to be shaved before it can even be used at all with
                            > a full-frame camera. That surely counts for something. It does with
                            > me, anyway...
                            >
                            > John, since you can CERTAINLY hire and try a Sigma without prejudice,
                            > why not give it a whirl? You might find it just the job!
                            >
                            > Roger W.
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Work: www.adex-japan.com
                            >
                          • Ingemar Bergmark
                            ... Another lens to consider is the Tokina AT-X 107 (10-17mm fisheye). The great thing about this lens is that you can use is at 12mm to get better resolution,
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 6, 2009
                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "johngibbel" <newsgroups@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Thats the site thank you.
                              >
                              > Now I just need to see what lens to get with the D700. Anyone
                              > shooting with a D700? my test mov was shot with the 14 - 24, 2 rows.
                              > Maybe the 10.5 would be the lens to try next? I also have a 17mm wide
                              > zoom.
                              >

                              Another lens to consider is the Tokina AT-X 107 (10-17mm fisheye).
                              The great thing about this lens is that you can use is at 12mm to get better resolution, but still maintain only 4 images for a complete sphere. Also you can go up to 15mm to get a fullframe fisheye as well.

                              Here are a couple of samples

                              Tokina @12.5mm: 5 images total, 4 around + nadir (down shot):
                              http://digg.com/u3A4Xs


                              Tokina @17mm (8 images total: 6 around + zenith and nadir)
                              http://digg.com/u3A4Y2


                              The Tokina is sharp, but loses a little sharpness at 15mm and above. I was just testing it at 17mm in the pano above to see how it would turn out.

                              Regards,
                              Ingemar Bergmark
                              http://vrzone360.com
                            • Hans Nyberg
                              ... Yes it looses a lot at 17mm especially if you compare it with the Canon 15mm. But it is superior to all other lenses at 10-14mm. Hans
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 6, 2009
                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Bergmark" <ingemar@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "johngibbel" <newsgroups@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Thats the site thank you.
                                > >
                                > > Now I just need to see what lens to get with the D700. Anyone
                                > > shooting with a D700? my test mov was shot with the 14 - 24, 2 rows.
                                > > Maybe the 10.5 would be the lens to try next? I also have a 17mm wide
                                > > zoom.
                                > >
                                >
                                > Another lens to consider is the Tokina AT-X 107 (10-17mm fisheye).
                                > The great thing about this lens is that you can use is at 12mm to get better resolution, but still maintain only 4 images for a complete sphere. Also you can go up to 15mm to get a fullframe fisheye as well.
                                >
                                > Here are a couple of samples
                                >
                                > Tokina @12.5mm: 5 images total, 4 around + nadir (down shot):
                                > http://digg.com/u3A4Xs
                                >
                                >
                                > Tokina @17mm (8 images total: 6 around + zenith and nadir)
                                > http://digg.com/u3A4Y2
                                >
                                >
                                > The Tokina is sharp, but loses a little sharpness at 15mm and above. I was just testing it at 17mm in the pano above to see how it would turn out.

                                Yes it looses a lot at 17mm especially if you compare it with the Canon 15mm.

                                But it is superior to all other lenses at 10-14mm.

                                Hans
                              • Ingemar Bergmark
                                ... Ooops! One thing I forgot to mention is that you must shave the Tokina lens to use it on a FF camera. And the shaving is *not* for the weak-hearted. The
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 6, 2009
                                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Bergmark" <ingemar@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > > Another lens to consider is the Tokina AT-X 107 (10-17mm fisheye).
                                  > > The great thing about this lens is that you can use is at 12mm to
                                  > > get better resolution, but still maintain only 4 images for a
                                  > > complete sphere. Also you can go up to 15mm to get a fullframe
                                  > > fisheye as well.
                                  > >


                                  Ooops! One thing I forgot to mention is that you must shave the Tokina lens to use it on a FF camera. And the shaving is *not* for the weak-hearted. The lenshood is made of metal, and is quite difficult to remove without the proper tools.
                                  I used a Dremel Tool with a tool-stand and a diamond cutter wheel. It turned out great, but you don't have to do it yourself.
                                  There are lens-shavings services like this one (http://www.360pano.de/en/tokina-sigma-nikon.html)

                                  / Ingemar
                                • AYRTON
                                  2009/8/6 Roger D. Williams ... hahahaha :-) It s not negative thinking I don t think, It s physics :-) it s just a matter of
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 6, 2009
                                    2009/8/6 Roger D. Williams <roger@...>

                                    >
                                    > Why so negative, Ayrton? If you use the Nikon 10.5mm shaved you are
                                    > essentially using the circular area in the center of the full-frame
                                    > image, exactly what you get with the Sigma 8mm. I don't think the
                                    > difference betweeen 8 and 10.5 is as big as you seem to think,



                                    hahahaha :-)
                                    It's not negative thinking
                                    I don't think,
                                    It's physics :-)
                                    it's just a matter of RESOLUTION

                                    You'll get much less if using a Sigma 8mmm on a FullFrame camera

                                    but this is a long and technical history.
                                    You can find lots of infos here on the List

                                    John, search the file and archives here and you'll find all the explantions
                                    why it is a better choice to go with a Nikkor 10.5mm or a Tokina 10-17mm
                                    and not a sigma 8mmm on a D700


                                    best regards
                                    AYRTON



                                    > especially as the extreme edges of the 10.5mm image are virtually
                                    > unusable.
                                    >
                                    > I have seen beautiful panoramas created from both lenses using full
                                    > frame cameras, as you probably have if you pause to think back a bit.
                                    >
                                    > So what's the big deal?
                                    >
                                    > The advantage of the Sigma is that it is designed from the start as a
                                    > full-frame lens, unlike the 10.5 which is designed for SP-C 1.5x
                                    > cameras and has to be shaved before it can even be used at all with
                                    > a full-frame camera. That surely counts for something. It does with
                                    > me, anyway...
                                    >
                                    > John, since you can CERTAINLY hire and try a Sigma without prejudice,
                                    > why not give it a whirl? You might find it just the job!
                                    >
                                    > Roger W.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Work: www.adex-japan.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    --
                                    ------------
                                    | A Y R |
                                    | T O N |
                                    ------------
                                    + 55 21 9982 6313
                                    http://ayrton360.com
                                    follow me :
                                    http://twitter.com/ayrton360


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Uri Cogan
                                    ... The shaving removes the lens hood, not the barrel. Without shaving, you get a lot of vignetting on the full-frame sensor of the D700. For excellent
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Aug 6, 2009
                                      johngibbel wrote:

                                      > It looks like the 10.5 might be the best route to go. I have seen a few post regarding shaving the lens. I assume you mean the lens barrel? What happens if you don't shave the lens barrel? If I rent the lens to test this is not an option. If I just buy the lens, do you have a picture you could share of the shaved lens?

                                      The shaving removes the lens hood, not the barrel. Without shaving, you
                                      get a lot of vignetting on the full-frame sensor of the D700. For
                                      excellent instructions, and examples of shaved vs. unshaved results, go
                                      to:

                                      http://www.singaporevr.com/blog/?p=659

                                      or, instructions without photo examples:

                                      http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/showthread.php?t=21016

                                      Uri.
                                    • Uri Cogan
                                      ... No offence taken. Calling a panorama a thing appears to me as neutral. As to first attempts, well yes; mine were really, really bad... perhaps we ought
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Aug 6, 2009
                                        Trausti Hraunfjord wrote:

                                        > Thing? It's a thing... and not a Pano? :)
                                        >
                                        > No offense intended. My first attempts at panos a few years back were much
                                        > much worse.

                                        No offence taken. Calling a panorama a "thing" appears to me as neutral.
                                        As to first attempts, well yes; mine were really, really bad... perhaps
                                        we ought to start a reverse 'contest ' titled "my worst panorama"
                                        :-) but if my memory is true, I trashed all my embarrassing early
                                        attemps...

                                        Uri.
                                      • Roger D. Williams
                                        ... Well, as an honours graduate in physics, I don t really think it s a matter of physics in this case. I think you are confusing the move from a 1.5x (SP-C)
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Aug 6, 2009
                                          On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:12:34 +0900, AYRTON <avi@...> wrote:

                                          > 2009/8/6 Roger D. Williams <roger@...>
                                          >
                                          >>
                                          >> Why so negative, Ayrton? If you use the Nikon 10.5mm shaved you are
                                          >> essentially using the circular area in the center of the full-frame
                                          >> image, exactly what you get with the Sigma 8mm. I don't think the
                                          >> difference betweeen 8 and 10.5 is as big as you seem to think,
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > hahahaha :-)
                                          > It's not negative thinking
                                          > I don't think,
                                          > It's physics :-)
                                          > it's just a matter of RESOLUTION

                                          Well, as an honours graduate in physics, I don't really think it's a
                                          matter of physics in this case. I think you are confusing the move
                                          from a 1.5x (SP-C) digital camera to a full-frame camera. In this
                                          case, the Sigma will use so much less of the total available pixels
                                          that there is a real "hit" in resolution.

                                          But what we are dealing with here is a full-frame camera and the
                                          choice of two circular fisheyes, one of which produces the circle
                                          from a 10.5mm FL lens and the other which produces it from an 8mm
                                          lens. Both will leave many, many pixels out of the image area,
                                          but the trade off is the wider angular coverage, fewer stitches,
                                          and fewer seams where half-people have to be removed. <grin>

                                          I remain to be convinced that the "hit" in resolution is that much
                                          different between the two CIRCULAR fisheye lenses (for that, of
                                          course, is what the 10.5mm becomes, once shaved).

                                          And as I have said, John should rent one and see. If I were him I
                                          would want to be pretty convinced it was worth paying more for a
                                          10.5mm Nikon, then paying more again to have it shaved, rather
                                          than get a lens that was designed to work that way and is known to
                                          give strictly comparable results.

                                          Roger W.

                                          > You'll get much less if using a Sigma 8mmm on a FullFrame camera
                                          >
                                          > but this is a long and technical history.
                                          > You can find lots of infos here on the List
                                          >
                                          > John, search the file and archives here and you'll find all the
                                          > explantions
                                          > why it is a better choice to go with a Nikkor 10.5mm or a Tokina 10-17mm
                                          > and not a sigma 8mmm on a D700
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > best regards
                                          > AYRTON
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >> especially as the extreme edges of the 10.5mm image are virtually
                                          >> unusable.
                                          >>
                                          >> I have seen beautiful panoramas created from both lenses using full
                                          >> frame cameras, as you probably have if you pause to think back a bit.
                                          >>
                                          >> So what's the big deal?
                                          >>
                                          >> The advantage of the Sigma is that it is designed from the start as a
                                          >> full-frame lens, unlike the 10.5 which is designed for SP-C 1.5x
                                          >> cameras and has to be shaved before it can even be used at all with
                                          >> a full-frame camera. That surely counts for something. It does with
                                          >> me, anyway...
                                          >>
                                          >> John, since you can CERTAINLY hire and try a Sigma without prejudice,
                                          >> why not give it a whirl? You might find it just the job!
                                          >>
                                          >> Roger W.
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> --
                                          >> Work: www.adex-japan.com
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> ------------------------------------
                                          >>
                                          >> --
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >



                                          --
                                          Work: www.adex-japan.com
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