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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Best body for the Nikkor 10.5 Fisheye

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  • Roger D. Williams
    On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:46:49 +0900, Ian Wood ... It s definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the Sony Alpha
    Message 1 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
      On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:46:49 +0900, Ian Wood <panolists@...>
      wrote:

      >
      > On 3 Oct 2006, at 02:57, Roger D. Williams wrote:
      >
      >> On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:14:06 +0900, smarfingerfeulcher
      >> <rmlcd@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>> Roger Williams asked:
      >>>
      >>>> In Japan, the D80 is very highly evaluated for its dynamic range
      >>> tweaking ability.
      >>
      >>> I have yet to try it, since it seems pretty much useless. The
      >>> feature
      >>> is listed under mul;tiple exposure and seems to offer the option of
      >>> two or three images combined, if I read things correctly, taken
      >>> over a
      >>> one stop range. That is, three pix at 1/2 stop intervals or two a
      >>> stop
      >>> apart. You seem to otherwise have no control--can't change the
      >>> exposure of quantity numbers beyond those two options.
      >>
      >> We may not be talking about the same thing. The explanation I read
      >> said
      >> that image processing developed detail in the shadow areas, and the
      >> examples given (mild, normal and strong) were VERY impressive. As I
      >> said, the feature is highly evaluated.
      >
      > The only things I've seen mentioned in reviews are in-camera multiple
      > exposure blending, and in-camera shadow/highlight correction. Dynamic
      > range tests such as <http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/
      > page19.asp> show it to be identical in dynamic range to other current
      > cameras such as the 30D.

      It's definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the
      Sony Alpha had this, but I don't follow Canons, and didn't know the
      30D had it. Anyway, however it compares, it seems like a very useful
      thing to have and I sure wish I had it!

      Actually, of course, dpreview was very scathing about the Fuji S3, but
      they did not test it appropriately, and failed to get the potential
      from it. Unusual for them... (I refer to the wider range that the
      dual honycomb feature secures).

      Roger W.


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    • Ian Wood
      ... As far as I know the 30D doesn t have HS correction - it s just very similar in dynamic range to the D80. Of course, what you do to the image afterwards is
      Message 2 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
        On 3 Oct 2006, at 10:20, Roger D. Williams wrote:

        > It's definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the
        > Sony Alpha had this, but I don't follow Canons, and didn't know the
        > 30D had it. Anyway, however it compares, it seems like a very useful
        > thing to have and I sure wish I had it!

        As far as I know the 30D doesn't have HS correction - it's just very
        similar in dynamic range to the D80. Of course, what you do to the
        image afterwards is irrelevant as far as *captured* DR is concerned.

        In-camera HS correction is absolutely useless to panoramic shooters,
        though. :-(

        Ian
      • Roger D. Williams
        On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:46:07 +0900, Ian Wood ... You can say that although you haven t seen the results that so impressed me? I
        Message 3 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
          On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:46:07 +0900, Ian Wood <panolists@...>
          wrote:

          >
          > On 3 Oct 2006, at 10:20, Roger D. Williams wrote:
          >
          >> It's definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the
          >> Sony Alpha had this, but I don't follow Canons, and didn't know the
          >> 30D had it. Anyway, however it compares, it seems like a very useful
          >> thing to have and I sure wish I had it!
          >
          > As far as I know the 30D doesn't have HS correction - it's just very
          > similar in dynamic range to the D80. Of course, what you do to the
          > image afterwards is irrelevant as far as *captured* DR is concerned.
          >
          > In-camera HS correction is absolutely useless to panoramic shooters,
          > though. :-(

          You can say that although you haven't seen the results that so
          impressed me? I am surprised to find so negative an attitude. I'd
          keep an open mind about it if I were you. I lust after the clear
          improvement I see, and know EXACTLY how it would help solve
          problems I encounter almost daily.

          Roger W.

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        • Wheaton, Simon
          Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation though? I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image, applying
          Message 4 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
            Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation
            though?

            I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image,
            applying different parameters to each image. Or does it use the same
            parameters for multiple images, with some sort of manual/locked
            settings?

            Simon
            Canberra
            AUSTRALIA

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Roger D. Williams
            Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2006 11:13 AM

            > In-camera HS correction is absolutely useless to panoramic shooters,
            > though. :-(

            You can say that although you haven't seen the results that so
            impressed me? I am surprised to find so negative an attitude. I'd
            keep an open mind about it if I were you. I lust after the clear
            improvement I see, and know EXACTLY how it would help solve
            problems I encounter almost daily.

            Roger W.

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          • Roger D. Williams
            On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:16:34 +0900, Wheaton, Simon ... That s a valid concern, Simon, and I can t answer by experience as I don t have a D80, but I do have
            Message 5 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
              On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:16:34 +0900, Wheaton, Simon
              <simon.wheaton@...> wrote:

              > Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation
              > though?
              >
              > I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image,
              > applying different parameters to each image. Or does it use the same
              > parameters for multiple images, with some sort of manual/locked
              > settings?

              That's a valid concern, Simon, and I can't answer by experience as I
              don't have a D80, but I do have experience of producing HDR images
              individually and then stitching them together. PTgui, which I use,
              is quite capable of smoothly integrating all of the images into a
              consistent (-looking?) panorama although the individual frames may
              have been treated slightly differently from each other and even
              look slightly different from one another.

              So I tend to think that this approach would greatly simplify my
              work and that it is being seriously underestimated by those who
              haven't tried it. I, of course, may have the opposite fault. <g>

              Roger W.


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            • Ian Wood
              ... That was the point, but I hadn t made it clear. Oops. This is something I know through bitter experience - any kind of locally dependant
              Message 6 of 27 , Oct 4, 2006
                On 4 Oct 2006, at 03:16, Wheaton, Simon wrote:

                > Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation
                > though?
                >
                > I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image,
                > applying different parameters to each image.

                That was the point, but I hadn't made it clear. Oops.

                This is something I know through bitter experience - any kind of
                'locally dependant' filter/adjustment such as highlight/shadow
                recovery can only be safely applied to the stitched panorama. Do it
                before stitching and you can end up with images that differ so
                drastically in tone at the edges that even Enblend has trouble
                matching them up.

                Take the case of a panorama where image A is made up of just shadow
                area, overlapping with image B which only has shadow area on the edge
                - HS adjustments will lighten the whole of image A, but will NOT do
                the same amount of lightening to the equivalent area on image B
                because the amount of lightening is based on the *size* of the dark
                area. I once ran Photoshop's HS adjustment on all the images for a
                panorama and it was hopeless - even with fixed parameters rather than
                automatic adjustment.

                I stand by my statement that it's a useless feature for panoramic
                photographers, but it IS great for every one else!

                Ian
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