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Re: Best body for the Nikkor 10.5 Fisheye

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  • smarfingerfeulcher
    Sorry. PC....
    Message 1 of 27 , Oct 1, 2006
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      Sorry. PC....
    • smarfingerfeulcher
      ... tweaking ... compression ... have seen ... detail ... I have yet to try it, since it seems pretty much useless. The feature is listed under mul;tiple
      Message 2 of 27 , Oct 2, 2006
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        Roger Williams asked:

        > In Japan, the D80 is very highly evaluated for its dynamic range
        tweaking
        > ability. Don't know what it's called in English, but there are three
        > levels of dynamic range compression (well, whether you call it
        compression
        > or expansion depends on your point of view). From the pictures I
        have seen
        > in the mags, it can make a remarkably good job of filling in shadow
        detail
        > on strongly backlit subjects. I could use that in my panoramas.
        >
        > Have you explored this feature/function?
        >
        > Roger W.
        >
        I have yet to try it, since it seems pretty much useless. The feature
        is listed under mul;tiple exposure and seems to offer the option of
        two or three images combined, if I read things correctly, taken over a
        one stop range. That is, three pix at 1/2 stop intervals or two a stop
        apart. You seem to otherwise have no control--can't change the
        exposure of quantity numbers beyond those two options.

        My concern on a pano is that the combined images will not match
        well....so I usually work around the problem in other ways...

        If someone has tried this with more optimistic results, I'd like to
        see them....
        >
      • Roger D. Williams
        On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:14:06 +0900, smarfingerfeulcher ... We may not be talking about the same thing. The explanation I read said that image processing
        Message 3 of 27 , Oct 2, 2006
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          On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:14:06 +0900, smarfingerfeulcher
          <rmlcd@...> wrote:

          > Roger Williams asked:
          >
          >> In Japan, the D80 is very highly evaluated for its dynamic range
          > tweaking ability.

          > I have yet to try it, since it seems pretty much useless. The feature
          > is listed under mul;tiple exposure and seems to offer the option of
          > two or three images combined, if I read things correctly, taken over a
          > one stop range. That is, three pix at 1/2 stop intervals or two a stop
          > apart. You seem to otherwise have no control--can't change the
          > exposure of quantity numbers beyond those two options.

          We may not be talking about the same thing. The explanation I read said
          that image processing developed detail in the shadow areas, and the
          examples given (mild, normal and strong) were VERY impressive. As I
          said, the feature is highly evaulated.

          > My concern on a pano is that the combined images will not match
          > well....so I usually work around the problem in other ways...

          Yes, this is the problem I have with HDR, and why I am so impressed with
          the new D80 feature. I saw no mention of multiple exposure but I wasn't
          looking for it and it WAS in Japanese. <g>

          > If someone has tried this with more optimistic results, I'd like to
          > see them....

          If it weren't for the copyright issues I'd scan the photos attached to
          the article I read. Very impressive indeed.

          Roger W.

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        • Ian Wood
          ... The only things I ve seen mentioned in reviews are in-camera multiple exposure blending, and in-camera shadow/highlight correction. Dynamic range tests
          Message 4 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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            On 3 Oct 2006, at 02:57, Roger D. Williams wrote:

            > On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:14:06 +0900, smarfingerfeulcher
            > <rmlcd@...> wrote:
            >
            >> Roger Williams asked:
            >>
            >>> In Japan, the D80 is very highly evaluated for its dynamic range
            >> tweaking ability.
            >
            >> I have yet to try it, since it seems pretty much useless. The
            >> feature
            >> is listed under mul;tiple exposure and seems to offer the option of
            >> two or three images combined, if I read things correctly, taken
            >> over a
            >> one stop range. That is, three pix at 1/2 stop intervals or two a
            >> stop
            >> apart. You seem to otherwise have no control--can't change the
            >> exposure of quantity numbers beyond those two options.
            >
            > We may not be talking about the same thing. The explanation I read
            > said
            > that image processing developed detail in the shadow areas, and the
            > examples given (mild, normal and strong) were VERY impressive. As I
            > said, the feature is highly evaluated.

            The only things I've seen mentioned in reviews are in-camera multiple
            exposure blending, and in-camera shadow/highlight correction. Dynamic
            range tests such as <http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/
            page19.asp> show it to be identical in dynamic range to other current
            cameras such as the 30D.

            Ian
          • Roger D. Williams
            On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:46:49 +0900, Ian Wood ... It s definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the Sony Alpha
            Message 5 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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              On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:46:49 +0900, Ian Wood <panolists@...>
              wrote:

              >
              > On 3 Oct 2006, at 02:57, Roger D. Williams wrote:
              >
              >> On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:14:06 +0900, smarfingerfeulcher
              >> <rmlcd@...> wrote:
              >>
              >>> Roger Williams asked:
              >>>
              >>>> In Japan, the D80 is very highly evaluated for its dynamic range
              >>> tweaking ability.
              >>
              >>> I have yet to try it, since it seems pretty much useless. The
              >>> feature
              >>> is listed under mul;tiple exposure and seems to offer the option of
              >>> two or three images combined, if I read things correctly, taken
              >>> over a
              >>> one stop range. That is, three pix at 1/2 stop intervals or two a
              >>> stop
              >>> apart. You seem to otherwise have no control--can't change the
              >>> exposure of quantity numbers beyond those two options.
              >>
              >> We may not be talking about the same thing. The explanation I read
              >> said
              >> that image processing developed detail in the shadow areas, and the
              >> examples given (mild, normal and strong) were VERY impressive. As I
              >> said, the feature is highly evaluated.
              >
              > The only things I've seen mentioned in reviews are in-camera multiple
              > exposure blending, and in-camera shadow/highlight correction. Dynamic
              > range tests such as <http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/
              > page19.asp> show it to be identical in dynamic range to other current
              > cameras such as the 30D.

              It's definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the
              Sony Alpha had this, but I don't follow Canons, and didn't know the
              30D had it. Anyway, however it compares, it seems like a very useful
              thing to have and I sure wish I had it!

              Actually, of course, dpreview was very scathing about the Fuji S3, but
              they did not test it appropriately, and failed to get the potential
              from it. Unusual for them... (I refer to the wider range that the
              dual honycomb feature secures).

              Roger W.


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            • Ian Wood
              ... As far as I know the 30D doesn t have HS correction - it s just very similar in dynamic range to the D80. Of course, what you do to the image afterwards is
              Message 6 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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                On 3 Oct 2006, at 10:20, Roger D. Williams wrote:

                > It's definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the
                > Sony Alpha had this, but I don't follow Canons, and didn't know the
                > 30D had it. Anyway, however it compares, it seems like a very useful
                > thing to have and I sure wish I had it!

                As far as I know the 30D doesn't have HS correction - it's just very
                similar in dynamic range to the D80. Of course, what you do to the
                image afterwards is irrelevant as far as *captured* DR is concerned.

                In-camera HS correction is absolutely useless to panoramic shooters,
                though. :-(

                Ian
              • Roger D. Williams
                On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:46:07 +0900, Ian Wood ... You can say that although you haven t seen the results that so impressed me? I
                Message 7 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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                  On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:46:07 +0900, Ian Wood <panolists@...>
                  wrote:

                  >
                  > On 3 Oct 2006, at 10:20, Roger D. Williams wrote:
                  >
                  >> It's definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the
                  >> Sony Alpha had this, but I don't follow Canons, and didn't know the
                  >> 30D had it. Anyway, however it compares, it seems like a very useful
                  >> thing to have and I sure wish I had it!
                  >
                  > As far as I know the 30D doesn't have HS correction - it's just very
                  > similar in dynamic range to the D80. Of course, what you do to the
                  > image afterwards is irrelevant as far as *captured* DR is concerned.
                  >
                  > In-camera HS correction is absolutely useless to panoramic shooters,
                  > though. :-(

                  You can say that although you haven't seen the results that so
                  impressed me? I am surprised to find so negative an attitude. I'd
                  keep an open mind about it if I were you. I lust after the clear
                  improvement I see, and know EXACTLY how it would help solve
                  problems I encounter almost daily.

                  Roger W.

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                • Wheaton, Simon
                  Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation though? I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image, applying
                  Message 8 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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                    Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation
                    though?

                    I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image,
                    applying different parameters to each image. Or does it use the same
                    parameters for multiple images, with some sort of manual/locked
                    settings?

                    Simon
                    Canberra
                    AUSTRALIA

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Roger D. Williams
                    Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2006 11:13 AM

                    > In-camera HS correction is absolutely useless to panoramic shooters,
                    > though. :-(

                    You can say that although you haven't seen the results that so
                    impressed me? I am surprised to find so negative an attitude. I'd
                    keep an open mind about it if I were you. I lust after the clear
                    improvement I see, and know EXACTLY how it would help solve
                    problems I encounter almost daily.

                    Roger W.

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                  • Roger D. Williams
                    On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:16:34 +0900, Wheaton, Simon ... That s a valid concern, Simon, and I can t answer by experience as I don t have a D80, but I do have
                    Message 9 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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                      On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:16:34 +0900, Wheaton, Simon
                      <simon.wheaton@...> wrote:

                      > Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation
                      > though?
                      >
                      > I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image,
                      > applying different parameters to each image. Or does it use the same
                      > parameters for multiple images, with some sort of manual/locked
                      > settings?

                      That's a valid concern, Simon, and I can't answer by experience as I
                      don't have a D80, but I do have experience of producing HDR images
                      individually and then stitching them together. PTgui, which I use,
                      is quite capable of smoothly integrating all of the images into a
                      consistent (-looking?) panorama although the individual frames may
                      have been treated slightly differently from each other and even
                      look slightly different from one another.

                      So I tend to think that this approach would greatly simplify my
                      work and that it is being seriously underestimated by those who
                      haven't tried it. I, of course, may have the opposite fault. <g>

                      Roger W.


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                    • Ian Wood
                      ... That was the point, but I hadn t made it clear. Oops. This is something I know through bitter experience - any kind of locally dependant
                      Message 10 of 27 , Oct 4, 2006
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                        On 4 Oct 2006, at 03:16, Wheaton, Simon wrote:

                        > Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation
                        > though?
                        >
                        > I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image,
                        > applying different parameters to each image.

                        That was the point, but I hadn't made it clear. Oops.

                        This is something I know through bitter experience - any kind of
                        'locally dependant' filter/adjustment such as highlight/shadow
                        recovery can only be safely applied to the stitched panorama. Do it
                        before stitching and you can end up with images that differ so
                        drastically in tone at the edges that even Enblend has trouble
                        matching them up.

                        Take the case of a panorama where image A is made up of just shadow
                        area, overlapping with image B which only has shadow area on the edge
                        - HS adjustments will lighten the whole of image A, but will NOT do
                        the same amount of lightening to the equivalent area on image B
                        because the amount of lightening is based on the *size* of the dark
                        area. I once ran Photoshop's HS adjustment on all the images for a
                        panorama and it was hopeless - even with fixed parameters rather than
                        automatic adjustment.

                        I stand by my statement that it's a useless feature for panoramic
                        photographers, but it IS great for every one else!

                        Ian
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