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RE: [PanoToolsNG] Flat pano(zoomify)comments please?

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  • Mark D. Fink
    ... Nothing that I know of. ... I think what I ll do is make that link just a place to download the zip for offline viewing. ... Not HDR, just two exposures
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 1, 2006
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      >> The Zoomify presentation works fine for me. It didn't take long at all to
      >> download, and even zipping across from one side to the other using the
      >>red rectangle loaded the image at high resolution quickly. I'm only
      >>running on a relatively slow cable modem.

      >Thanks for testing. Do you know of any other viewers for large images,
      >similar to Zoomify? Although it seems to work ok it's always nice to know
      >the alternatives..

      Nothing that I know of.

      >> Can this approach work for spherical panos? In the past, it has never
      >>been an issue for me, but for my WWP Transportation entry, I shot the
      >>inside of a church (being spiritually transported) with a 24mm lens. The
      >>resulting full size QT movie is 50MB. Obviously, that's not what I'll post
      >>to the WWP, but I'll link to it for those interested. I've posted it here
      >>- www.northernlight.net/wwp/transportation.htm - but I need to learn
      >>Pano2QTVR more because I didn't get the right compression. (You can
      >>download it here and view offline if you prefer -

      >I couldn't view that one in neither Opera nor IE? I just got a broken film
      >frame, although they spent a lot of time downloading.

      I think what I'll do is make that link just a place to download the zip for
      offline viewing.

      >> www.northernlight.net/wwp/WWPTransportation20k.zip The level of detail I
      >> see from my jpg vs. the QT movie is considerably higher. Always something
      >> new to learn...
      >I had a look at it. Nice (HDR?) But it was the most sluggish QTVR I ever
      >viewed in QTPlayer. It took many seconds before it reacted to a mouse
      >movement..

      Not HDR, just two exposures blended in PhotoShop using this approach -
      http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/digital-blending.shtml, (the
      layer mask option). No question, it is a monster of a pano, so it requires
      something of a monster computer to view. 8^) However, the reward is being
      able to see just about all the text on the walls.

      Mark
      www.pinnacle-vr.com
      www.northernlight.net
    • Flemming V. Larsen
      ... From: Bjørn K Nilssen
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Bjørn K Nilssen" <
        :

        -------zip -------

        >... Do you know of any other viewers for large images, similar to
        > Zoomify? Although it seems to work ok it's always nice to know the
        > alternatives..

        Hi Bjørn,

        In my PS CS there is an export format called Viewpoint which seems to work
        in a similar way as Zoomify.
        But I couldn't find much info about it on their website www.viewpoint.com -
        The current Viewpoint Media Player looks more like a 3D plugin.

        Anyone know more about it?

        - Flemming
      • Bjørn K Nilssen
        ... Actually I used Viewpoint years ago. At that time Metacreations had developed a very nice 3D viewer that had a quality way beyond what was possible with QT
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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          On 2 Oct 2006 at 9:25, Flemming V. Larsen wrote:

          > >... Do you know of any other viewers for large images, similar to
          > > Zoomify? Although it seems to work ok it's always nice to know the
          > > alternatives..
          >
          > Hi Bjørn,
          >
          > In my PS CS there is an export format called Viewpoint which seems to work
          > in a similar way as Zoomify.
          > But I couldn't find much info about it on their website www.viewpoint.com -
          > The current Viewpoint Media Player looks more like a 3D plugin.
          >
          > Anyone know more about it?

          Actually I used Viewpoint years ago. At that time Metacreations had developed a very nice
          3D viewer that had a quality way beyond what was possible with QT object movie, being
          able to show interactive animations and a lot more, like moving camera.
          Metacreations was so excited about this that they sold all their nice programs, like
          Canoma (bought and killed by Adobe), Fractal Design Painter (now Corel), Poser (still
          alive), Bryce etc, and teamed up with Viewpoint (who was the biggest supplier of 3D
          models) to focus solely on the new VET viewer technology. They decided to charge
          ridiculous licensing fees, changed their focus all the time, and now seems to have
          vanished almost completely? I never succeeded in convincing any of my clients to pay
          those fees, and they were also not happy because it was a PC-only solution at that time.
          I used a PS plugin from Viewpoint for a while that was able to convert a QTVR pano to a
          equirectangular image, but now that plugin is gone too.
          The Zoomview seems to have vanished too? There's no sign of it on their (unsearchable )
          web site. It may be part of Viewpoint Media Player, but that player turns out to not be
          compatible with Opera (which is my favorite browser), so I didn't even bother to download
          it. I want my web pages and content to be compatible with Opera...
          The Viewpoint/Metacreations story is a sad one IMO...

          I found a few links to Zoomview with a Google search on their site:
          Like www.viewpoint.com/zoomview/
          where you're supposed to buy a license for $1000 a year!
          There were actually more than 300 hits, but none of the ones I tried led to any relevant
          info - most of them led to 404 pages...
          It looks like Zoomview is dead and buried ...--
          bk@... // Bjørn Kåre Nilssen http://bknilssen.no/
          Kristiansand, Norway
        • Robert Bilsland
          Bjørn I too have dabbled with creating hi-res zoomable views using zoomify. I was shooting at a local music festival and created 4 hi-res images over the
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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            Bjørn

            I too have "dabbled" with creating hi-res zoomable views using
            zoomify. I was shooting at a local music festival and created 4 hi-res
            images over the weekend. You can see them all here
            http://panoramasunlimited.com/content/view/72/178/ , they are at
            various resolutions with the Sunday afternoon (
            http://panoramasunlimited.com/content/view/69/182/ ) being the highest
            at about 50,000 pixels wide by 6,000 pixels high from about 140 photos
            (If printed at 200dpi it would be over 20ft long and over 2ft high!).
            I don't have a printer good enough to print it myself but a relative
            works for a company with some pretty big printers, so finger crossed.

            Bob Bilsland.

            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Juergen Schrader" <panorama@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > > Is this an acceptable way to show such panos?
            >
            > Oh, yes. I love that zoomify stuff.
            > Did some of these myself a year or so
            > http://www.schrader-air.de/zoomify/zement.htm
            > and will do some more from my last mountain trip.
            > So many pictures, so little time, sigh *g*
            >
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Lately I've grown more interested in making flat and printable
            > panos.Wonder if it has
            > > anything to do with the 60" printer I got a couple of weeks ago ;) ?
            > > This pano is a row of houses. A long time go I gave up on using
            > hugin or PTgui for such
            > > panos, and neither could Panavue do the job-so this is all hand
            > stitched in PS/CS2.
            > > I made a Zoomify project of it, but I am not sure if that's the
            > best way to show such a
            > > pano on the web? It sliced it into 1093 small images, and it takes
            > along time to upload
            > > all those images!
            > > The original is about 20000x2500pxls, 20 shots with an Olympus C-50
            > in portrait mode.
            > > .
            > > Is this an acceptable way to show such panos?
            > > Does it take too long to download/show?
            > > Is the res enough (or too big?)
            > > Can you find any glaring stitching errors?
            > > It's kind of hard finding any when you've been looking at it for
            > several hours...
            > > The URL is http://bknilssen.no/pano/Zoom/ZppmWergelandsL.htm
            > > or http://bknilssen.no/pano/Zoom/ZppmWergelands.htm for a smaller
            > viewing window.
            > >
            > > TIA for all comments:)
            > > --
            > > bk@ // Bjørn Kåre Nilssen http://bknilssen.no/
            > > Kristiansand, Norway
            > >
            >
          • Bjørn K Nilssen
            ... Very nice :) And I thought my 30kx4k 120Mpix image was big ;) ... I would think that you could get away with a lot less than 200dpi for such a large image?
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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              On 2 Oct 2006 at 10:46, Robert Bilsland wrote:

              >
              > I too have "dabbled" with creating hi-res zoomable views using
              > zoomify. I was shooting at a local music festival and created 4 hi-res
              > images over the weekend. You can see them all here
              > http://panoramasunlimited.com/content/view/72/178/ , they are at
              > various resolutions with the Sunday afternoon (
              > http://panoramasunlimited.com/content/view/69/182/ ) being the highest
              > at about 50,000 pixels wide by 6,000 pixels high from about 140 photos

              Very nice :) And I thought my 30kx4k 120Mpix image was big ;)

              > (If printed at 200dpi it would be over 20ft long and over 2ft high!).
              > I don't have a printer good enough to print it myself but a relative
              > works for a company with some pretty big printers, so finger crossed.

              I would think that you could get away with a lot less than 200dpi for such a large image?
              My Novajet only prints at 600 dpi, but for such large images I think that it looks quite
              acceptable at 100ppi source image, or even less. It's nice to be able to walk close up
              and not lose too much detail though, like a Pieter Brueghel painting :)
              And like in your images with lots of people..
              If you want a big printer I'm quite sure you would be able to get one of these old Encads
              or similar quite cheap. I got mine for free, and it cost me $18 for new bushings (and a
              couple of hours of work) to get it in perfect working condition :)
              --
              bk@... // Bjørn Kåre Nilssen http://bknilssen.no/
              Kristiansand, Norway
            • Roger Howard
              ... Viewpoint Media Player is (was) a really neat player years back; I know I was working with it at least 5, if not 6, years ago when it was known as the
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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                On Mon, October 2, 2006 12:25 am, Flemming V. Larsen wrote:
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Bjørn K Nilssen" <
                > :
                >
                > -------zip -------
                >
                >>... Do you know of any other viewers for large images, similar to
                >> Zoomify? Although it seems to work ok it's always nice to know the
                >> alternatives..
                >
                > Hi Bjørn,
                >
                > In my PS CS there is an export format called Viewpoint which seems to work
                > in a similar way as Zoomify.
                > But I couldn't find much info about it on their website www.viewpoint.com
                > -
                > The current Viewpoint Media Player looks more like a 3D plugin.

                Viewpoint Media Player is (was) a really neat player years back; I know I
                was working with it at least 5, if not 6, years ago when it was known as
                the MetaStream Player (from the same guys who brought us Bryce, Canoma,
                etc).

                It has had a powerful 3D engine from the start, and had a modular system
                of media handlers that could be loaded on the fly to enable lots of
                different functionality, formats, etc. Even 6 years ago the sucker was
                fast for 3D, and could do some really neat composite multimedia, like
                mapping Flash to 3D surfaces.

                It's a shame it didn't get bought up by Macromedia for inclusion into
                Flash, but at the time it was more competitive with Shockwave for
                Director. For 2D zoomable images I don't think it's nearly as compelling
                as Flash, simply because Flash is Flash. For any other use I'm just amazed
                it's still around - it definitely doesn't have the kind of support we'd
                hoped for back when!

                -Rh
              • Bruno Postle
                ... I quite like the CSS/javascript viewer Øyvind Kolås uses, though this does load the whole image into memory: http://pippin.gimp.org/gallery/panorama/ --
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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                  On Sun 01-Oct-2006 at 09:23 +0200, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks for testing. Do you know of any other viewers for large
                  > images, similar to Zoomify? Although it seems to work ok it's
                  > always nice to know the alternatives..

                  I quite like the CSS/javascript viewer Øyvind Kolås uses, though
                  this does load the whole image into memory:

                  http://pippin.gimp.org/gallery/panorama/

                  --
                  Bruno
                • Yiorgos Teo
                  ... images, similar to ... alternatives.. ... There is an open source project IIPimage: http://iipimage.sourceforge.net/index.shtml The processing is done on
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > Thanks for testing. Do you know of any other viewers for large
                    images, similar to
                    > Zoomify? Although it seems to work ok it's always nice to know the
                    alternatives..
                    >

                    There is an open source project IIPimage:
                    http://iipimage.sourceforge.net/index.shtml

                    The processing is done on the server and the image is
                    served through either of two clients, one is java the other
                    is in javascript.

                    One drawback I see vs Zoomify is possible load on the server
                    is there are a lot of requests. I say this not having any idea
                    what kind of load it imposes on the server.

                    Also, for those who like to do gigapixel panos and are not
                    blessed with pockets deep enough for the latest and greatest
                    in computer equipment, there is another open source project
                    called VIPS:
                    http://www.vips.ecs.soton.ac.uk/index.php?title=VIPS

                    It runs on Windoz and it can open and do basic processing
                    of very large image files on low spec machines. I've used it
                    on a couple of gigapixel panos I did and it worked fine
                    on my Celeron 2GHz, 768MB RAM system. The image file was
                    around 3GB.

                    VIPS can be used from the command line or through NIP, its GUI.
                    Not very intuitive, but not hard to learn either, especially
                    if Photoshop refuses to open those large files.

                    By the way, you can see the gigapixel pano I did here:
                    http://www.hellas.net/index.php?entry=entry060312-114333

                    It's a view of the city of Athens taken from Mt. Lycabetus
                    the tallest point in the city (I think). Displayed
                    in Zoomify.

                    Cheers,

                    Yiorgos
                    http://www.Hellas.net
                  • Roger Howard
                    ... Just an FYI, I worked with an IIP server - LivePicture Zoom Image Server, later renamed MGI and then iSeeMedia Zoom Server. We used several different
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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                      On Mon, October 2, 2006 10:00 am, Yiorgos Teo wrote:
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >>
                      >> Thanks for testing. Do you know of any other viewers for large
                      > images, similar to
                      >> Zoomify? Although it seems to work ok it's always nice to know the
                      > alternatives..
                      >>
                      >
                      > There is an open source project IIPimage:
                      > http://iipimage.sourceforge.net/index.shtml
                      >
                      > The processing is done on the server and the image is
                      > served through either of two clients, one is java the other
                      > is in javascript.

                      Just an FYI, I worked with an IIP server - LivePicture Zoom Image Server,
                      later renamed MGI and then iSeeMedia Zoom Server. We used several
                      different client technologies with it...

                      > One drawback I see vs Zoomify is possible load on the server
                      > is there are a lot of requests. I say this not having any idea
                      > what kind of load it imposes on the server.

                      Frankly I'd expect Zoomify to be lighter - all the tiles are
                      precomputed/created, rather than having to be extracted in realtime. In
                      the end, it's just http traffic to small JPEG files, albeit lots of them -
                      but that's not real different from IIP, except there's more processing on
                      the server.

                      With IIP servers, hwoever, there is possibly more you can do. I used our
                      IIP server to apply sharpening, a basic gamma transform, and some other
                      simple image transformations. With Zoomify, you get only what's already in
                      the tiles.

                      >
                      > Also, for those who like to do gigapixel panos and are not
                      > blessed with pockets deep enough for the latest and greatest
                      > in computer equipment, there is another open source project
                      > called VIPS:
                      > http://www.vips.ecs.soton.ac.uk/index.php?title=VIPS
                      >
                      > It runs on Windoz and it can open and do basic processing
                      > of very large image files on low spec machines. I've used it
                      > on a couple of gigapixel panos I did and it worked fine
                      > on my Celeron 2GHz, 768MB RAM system. The image file was
                      > around 3GB.
                      >
                      > VIPS can be used from the command line or through NIP, its GUI.
                      > Not very intuitive, but not hard to learn either, especially
                      > if Photoshop refuses to open those large files.

                      VIPS is a great tool for anyone working with huge image datasets... very
                      neat app, with a good little community of very technical people supporting
                      it.

                      > By the way, you can see the gigapixel pano I did here:
                      > http://www.hellas.net/index.php?entry=entry060312-114333
                      >
                      > It's a view of the city of Athens taken from Mt. Lycabetus
                      > the tallest point in the city (I think). Displayed
                      > in Zoomify.

                      Awesome!

                      -Rh

                      Note: This message is intended solely for consumption on
                      PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com and any distribution elsewhere is
                      unauthorized.
                    • Michael Hansky
                      ... Thought this project was fallen alseep..... I have also such a IIP Server, a old MGI ZoomImageServer You can also take wrapped panoramas for zooming:
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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                        > There is an open source project IIPimage:
                        > http://iipimage.sourceforge.net/index.shtml
                        >

                        Thought this project was fallen alseep.....

                        I have also such a IIP Server, a old MGI ZoomImageServer

                        You can also take wrapped panoramas for zooming:

                        http://www.zooming.de/demo/mainau/Palmenhaus_fpx.htm

                        for flat images you can take a look at my homepage: www.inxs-media.de
                        (go to menu "Zoom Images")



                        Roger, you still use it ?





                        Michael Hansky
                      • Rick Drew
                        I actually purchased the full version of Zoomify. I had a client that wanted his customers to zoom in and view individual components in his studio. By the
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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                          I actually purchased the full version of Zoomify. I had a client that
                          wanted his customers to zoom in and view individual components in his
                          studio. By the time I was done shooting his control console, the file was
                          over 1.5 gig. Impossible to use without Zoomify. You could actually zoom in
                          to individual dials! After paying for the job, he changed the equipment! I
                          kept part of the image though for demo use.



                          I have several different samples at http://www.add360.com/zoomable/



                          Rick Drew



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bjørn K Nilssen
                          ... Nice, but not as smooth, fast and versatile as Zoomify maybe? Thanks for the tip :) ... -- bk@bknilssen.no // Bjørn Kåre Nilssen http://bknilssen.no/
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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                            On 2 Oct 2006 at 17:07, Bruno Postle wrote:

                            > On Sun 01-Oct-2006 at 09:23 +0200, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Thanks for testing. Do you know of any other viewers for large
                            > > images, similar to Zoomify? Although it seems to work ok it's
                            > > always nice to know the alternatives..
                            >
                            > I quite like the CSS/javascript viewer Øyvind Kolås uses, though
                            > this does load the whole image into memory:

                            Nice, but not as smooth, fast and versatile as Zoomify maybe?
                            Thanks for the tip :)

                            > http://pippin.gimp.org/gallery/panorama/
                            --
                            bk@... // Bjørn Kåre Nilssen http://bknilssen.no/
                            Kristiansand, Norway
                          • Bjørn K Nilssen
                            ... Thanks for the tip. I tested the demos, and the world map never showed up when I zoomed into it. Te others worked, but not as fast as Zoomify. Besides I
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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                              On 2 Oct 2006 at 17:00, Yiorgos Teo wrote:

                              > There is an open source project IIPimage:
                              > http://iipimage.sourceforge.net/index.shtml
                              >
                              > The processing is done on the server and the image is
                              > served through either of two clients, one is java the other
                              > is in javascript.
                              >
                              > One drawback I see vs Zoomify is possible load on the server
                              > is there are a lot of requests. I say this not having any idea
                              > what kind of load it imposes on the server.

                              Thanks for the tip. I tested the demos, and the world map never showed up when I zoomed
                              into it. Te others worked, but not as fast as Zoomify. Besides I may have problems
                              installing the server at my web hotel I guess?
                              But maybe if I get some big clients with their own server?

                              > Also, for those who like to do gigapixel panos and are not
                              > blessed with pockets deep enough for the latest and greatest
                              > in computer equipment, there is another open source project
                              > called VIPS:
                              > http://www.vips.ecs.soton.ac.uk/index.php?title=VIPS

                              Interesting. I dl'ed it and will test it. I usually don't have problems opening files in
                              PS, but sometimes in AcDSee, which I also use for some simple image adjustments.

                              > By the way, you can see the gigapixel pano I did here:
                              > http://www.hellas.net/index.php?entry=entry060312-114333
                              >
                              > It's a view of the city of Athens taken from Mt. Lycabetus
                              > the tallest point in the city (I think). Displayed
                              > in Zoomify.

                              Very nice :)
                              But where are all the people? I looked around, but couldn't find a single person on any
                              of all those roof tops? I guess I didn't check all of them... ;)

                              --
                              bk@... // Bjørn Kåre Nilssen http://bknilssen.no/
                              Kristiansand, Norway
                            • Bjørn K Nilssen
                              ... But then you need full rights on the server? IOW it can t be done on a normal web hotel server? ... -- bk@bknilssen.no // Bjørn Kåre Nilssen
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 2, 2006
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                                On 2 Oct 2006 at 19:34, Michael Hansky wrote:

                                >
                                > > There is an open source project IIPimage:
                                > > http://iipimage.sourceforge.net/index.shtml
                                > >
                                >
                                > Thought this project was fallen alseep.....
                                >
                                > I have also such a IIP Server, a old MGI ZoomImageServer

                                But then you need full rights on the server? IOW it can't be done on a normal web hotel
                                server?

                                > You can also take wrapped panoramas for zooming:
                                >
                                > http://www.zooming.de/demo/mainau/Palmenhaus_fpx.htm
                                >
                                > for flat images you can take a look at my homepage: www.inxs-media.de
                                > (go to menu "Zoom Images")
                                --
                                bk@... // Bjørn Kåre Nilssen http://bknilssen.no/
                                Kristiansand, Norway
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