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Re: [PanoToolsNG] A first attempt to create a 360x180 degree panorama from HD video

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  • Wim Koornneef
    Hello David, In theory a 360x180 degree pano isn t possible but in practice the brains can pretty well handle the huge errors close nadir and zenith. See the
    Message 1 of 17 , May 2, 2009
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      Hello David,

      In theory a 360x180 degree pano isn't possible but in practice the brains
      can pretty well handle the huge errors close nadir and zenith.
      See the 3D panos on my website (under "3D") to judge for yourself,
      http://www.dmmdh.nl

      BTW, I really would appriciate it if you can give me some tips about the
      best NPP offset for creating a 360x180 degree 3D stereo pano from HD video.

      Best,
      Wim


      David Sykes-3 wrote:
      >
      > Wim Koornneef wrote:
      >
      >> the next step will be to create a panorama from a video shot with the >
      >> same hardware but with a NPP off set position of the lens (shifted
      >> backwards out of NPP) to create a 360x180 degree 3D stereo panorama.
      >
      >
      > That will be very interesting BUT is such a thing as a stereo spherical
      > panorama even possible ?
      >
      > Say you are looking straight down and rotate the view, the left/right
      > images would have to swap-over after 180 degrees of rotation !
      >
      >
      >
      > David
      >
      >
      >

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    • Wim Koornneef
      Hello David, Sorry, you already answered my question about the NPP off set in another thread (approx. 200mm and that will be tough to handle :-( Thanks for
      Message 2 of 17 , May 2, 2009
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        Hello David,

        Sorry, you already answered my question about the NPP off set in another
        thread (approx. 200mm and that will be tough to handle :-(

        Thanks for your help,

        Wim


        Wim Koornneef wrote:
        >
        > Hello David,
        >
        > In theory a 360x180 degree pano isn't possible but in practice the brains
        > can pretty well handle the huge errors close to nadir and zenith.
        > See the 3D panos on my website (under "3D") to judge for yourself,
        > http://www.dmmdh.nl
        >
        > BTW, I really would appriciate it if you can give me some tips about the
        > best NPP offset for creating a 360x180 degree 3D stereo pano from HD
        > video.
        >
        > Best,
        > Wim
        >
        >
        > David Sykes-3 wrote:
        >>
        >> Wim Koornneef wrote:
        >>
        >>> the next step will be to create a panorama from a video shot with the >
        >>> same hardware but with a NPP off set position of the lens (shifted
        >>> backwards out of NPP) to create a 360x180 degree 3D stereo panorama.
        >>
        >>
        >> That will be very interesting BUT is such a thing as a stereo spherical
        >> panorama even possible ?
        >>
        >> Say you are looking straight down and rotate the view, the left/right
        >> images would have to swap-over after 180 degrees of rotation !
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> David
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >

        --
        View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/A-first-attempt-to-create-a-360x180-degree-panorama-from-HD-video-tp23350121p23350473.html
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      • erik leeman
        ... Looking at the diagram I got the impression the camera has to be in front of the rotation axis, not behind. Did I get it wrong then? Oh well, I ll read the
        Message 3 of 17 , May 2, 2009
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          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Wim Koornneef wrote:
          > ...snip...
          > for me it is encouraging to explore more of the
          > options of video for creating panoramas and the next step will be
          > to create a panorama from a video shot with the same hardware but
          > with a NPP off set position of the lens (shifted backwards out of
          > NPP) to create a 360x180 degree 3D stereo panorama.
          >
          > Best,
          > Wim

          Looking at the diagram I got the impression the camera has to be in front of the rotation axis, not behind. Did I get it wrong then?
          Oh well, I'll read the explanation once more tomorrow, a good night sleep will surely help :)

          Erik Leeman
        • David Sykes
          ... That is correct. David
          Message 4 of 17 , May 2, 2009
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            erik leeman wrote:

            > Looking at the diagram I got the impression the camera has to be in
            > front of the rotation axis


            That is correct.


            David
          • David Sykes
            ... Make it 100mm then. Mine was just a guess. With a 100mm maybe you can get closer to the subject without creating uncomfortable stereo disparity, I am not
            Message 5 of 17 , May 2, 2009
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              Wim Koornneef wrote:

              >approx. 200mm and that will be tough to handle :-(


              Make it 100mm then.

              Mine was just a guess.


              With a 100mm maybe you can get closer to the subject without creating uncomfortable stereo disparity, I am not sure.


              David
            • Wim Koornneef
              Hello David, When reading your article about the use of StereoPhotoMaker for 3D panos I misunderstood the position of the camera and thought the rotation
              Message 6 of 17 , May 3, 2009
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                Hello David,

                When reading your article about the use of StereoPhotoMaker for 3D panos I
                misunderstood the position of the camera and thought the rotation center
                must be in front of the camera.

                About the position of the camera, in front or behind the rotation center, I
                guess both positions will work.
                I guess as long as there is an NPP offset it dousn't matter where the camera
                is placed, in front or behind the rotation center because it is the same
                parallax that we normaly like to to avoid for normal panos that makes it
                possible to create a 3D stereo pair when using a single camera. Could this
                be true ?

                The advantage of placing the camera in front of the rotation center is that
                the rotator and mounting bracket is not visble in the video and hence is not
                giving any footprint in the panorama.

                BTW, I think it must be possible to calculate the NPP offset for a given
                optimum stereo base, object distance, etc. but unfortunately I am not
                comfortable with mathematics ...

                Best,
                Wim


                David Sykes-3 wrote:
                >
                > erik leeman wrote:
                >
                >> Looking at the diagram I got the impression the camera has to be in
                >> front of the rotation axis
                >
                >
                > That is correct.
                >
                >
                > David
                >
                >
                >

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              • Roger D. Williams
                On Sun, 03 May 2009 05:54:38 +0900, Wim Koornneef ... I think you have a clearly successful proof of concept demonstration! ... Yes, that is the ne plus
                Message 7 of 17 , May 3, 2009
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                  On Sun, 03 May 2009 05:54:38 +0900, Wim Koornneef
                  <wim.koornneef@...> wrote:


                  > With the help of Frank van Dam (video footage) and Peter Murphy (advice)
                  > I managed to create a 360x180 degree panorama from a HD video.
                  >
                  > The HD video was shot on a EOS 5D MKII camera in portrait position,
                  > shaved
                  > Tokina 10-17@12mm lens in NPP position and a Seitz VR drive with a
                  > rotation speed of approx.1 rpm.

                  > The video mov was processed in QT Pro, rotated 90 degree and exported as
                  > HQ JPEG images.

                  > I selected 316 images that together formed a 360 degree rotation and in
                  > Photoshop I sharpened the images a lot, I applied a curve to enhance the
                  > brightness and contrast and then trimmed the images to 13 px width to get
                  > slices of 1920x13 px.

                  > (13=the image shift between each image in the sequence and 1920 px is the
                  > largest size of a HD video frame)
                  >
                  > In the Windows application StereoPhotoMaker I connected the slices
                  > (without
                  > any remapping/blending/optimizing/etc.) in a couple of seconds, I resized
                  > the output to 3840x1920 px in Photoshop and converted the
                  > equirectangular to a flash pano with Pano2VR.
                  >
                  > Short URL:
                  > http://tinyurl.com/cmocgy
                  >
                  > Long URL:
                  > http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/video_panorama_02052009/video_panorama.html
                  >
                  > As you can see the result isn't so bad for a first attempt. It is clear
                  > that the automatic exposure of the camera is making sudden steps andeven
                  > with so
                  > many slices there are visible jagged lines (not caused by JPEG
                  > compression),
                  > there is also a person in the scene that was unharmed when passing by in
                  > the video but is "sliced" in the panorama and despite the sharpening the
                  > image is still not as crisp as it should be.

                  > Please keep in mind that this is a first attempt and I am sure in time we
                  > will develop the skills needed to create a better video (exposure,
                  > sharper, etc) and a better panorama (errors, junctions, etc.).

                  I think you have a clearly successful "proof of concept" demonstration!

                  > I hope you like the output, for me it is encouraging to explore more of
                  > the options of video for creating panoramas and the next step will be to
                  > create a panorama from a video shot with the same hardware but with a
                  > NPP off set position of the lens (shifted backwards out of NPP) to
                  > create a 360x180
                  > degree 3D stereo panorama.

                  Yes, that is the ne plus ultra! Go for it!

                  Roger W.

                  --
                  Work: www.adex-japan.com
                • Wim Koornneef
                  Hello, For comparison with the sliced version I also created a stitched pano from 4 video image frames, each 90 degrees apart, When you put both versions side
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 3, 2009
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                    Hello,

                    For comparison with the sliced version I also created a stitched pano from 4
                    video image frames, each 90 degrees apart,

                    When you put both versions side by side in a separate (resized) browser
                    window they are very easy to compare.

                    This is the stitched pano,
                    http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/video_panorama_02052009/stitched_video_panorama.html

                    And this is the sliced one,
                    http://www.dmmdh.nl/panos/video_panorama_02052009/video_panorama.html

                    The differences between the sliced and the stitched version are very visible
                    and obviously the image quality of the stitched version is much better.
                    The jagged lines are gone, the brightness is more equal, the star in zenith
                    and the lines coming from zenith are gone and the person that was passing by
                    and sliced is removed from the scene, all without any post editing of the
                    PTGui output.

                    Two different methods each with its own strong and weak points,
                    stitching/blending/optimizing gives much better results but with slicing it
                    is possible to handle a lot of images in a relatively short time and only
                    with slicing it is possible to create 3D stereo images from a single series
                    of image frames.

                    BTW, the little differences in the size of the footprint between both
                    versions is caused by some post processing of the equirectangular of the
                    sliced output.

                    I hope you like the comparison.

                    Wim


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                  • RobLee
                    where is it shot. It looks familiar. ... From: Wim Koornneef Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] A first attempt to create a 360x180 degree
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 3, 2009
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                      where is it shot. It looks familiar.

                      --- On Sun, 5/3/09, Wim Koornneef <wim.koornneef@...> wrote:
                      From: Wim Koornneef <wim.koornneef@...>
                      Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] A first attempt to create a 360x180 degree panorama from HD video
                      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 6:18 AM



















                      Hello,



                      For comparison with the sliced version I also created a stitched pano from 4

                      video image frames, each 90 degrees apart,



                      When you put both versions side by side in a separate (resized) browser

                      window they are very easy to compare.



                      This is the stitched pano,

                      http://www.dmmdh nl/panos/ video_panorama_ 02052009/ stitched_ video_panorama. html



                      And this is the sliced one,

                      http://www.dmmdh nl/panos/ video_panorama_ 02052009/ video_panorama. html



                      The differences between the sliced and the stitched version are very visible

                      and obviously the image quality of the stitched version is much better.

                      The jagged lines are gone, the brightness is more equal, the star in zenith

                      and the lines coming from zenith are gone and the person that was passing by

                      and sliced is removed from the scene, all without any post editing of the

                      PTGui output.



                      Two different methods each with its own strong and weak points,

                      stitching/blending/ optimizing gives much better results but with slicing it

                      is possible to handle a lot of images in a relatively short time and only

                      with slicing it is possible to create 3D stereo images from a single series

                      of image frames.



                      BTW, the little differences in the size of the footprint between both

                      versions is caused by some post processing of the equirectangular of the

                      sliced output.



                      I hope you like the comparison.



                      Wim



                      --

                      View this message in context: http://www.nabble com/A-first- attempt-to- create-a- 360x180-degree- panorama- from-HD-video- tp23350121p23354 453.html

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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Wim Koornneef
                      ... The video is shot in Utrecht and I am sure Frank can tell the exact location. Wim -- View this message in context:
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 3, 2009
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                        RobLee wrote:
                        >
                        > where is it shot. It looks familiar.

                        The video is shot in Utrecht and I am sure Frank can tell the exact
                        location.

                        Wim

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                      • David Sykes
                        ... In SPM did you use the Auto Colour Adjustment to blend the image strips ? Why was auto-exposure used for image capture, does movie mode not support locked
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 3, 2009
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                          Wim Koornneef wrote:

                          > For comparison with the sliced version

                          In SPM did you use the Auto Colour Adjustment to blend the image strips ?


                          Why was auto-exposure used for image capture, does movie mode not support locked exposure ?


                          David
                        • bigwade
                          http://tinyurl.com/cuk4j2 ... -- View this message in context:
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 3, 2009
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                            http://tinyurl.com/cuk4j2



                            Wim Koornneef wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > RobLee wrote:
                            >>
                            >> where is it shot. It looks familiar.
                            >
                            > The video is shot in Utrecht and I am sure Frank can tell the exact
                            > location.
                            >
                            > Wim
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/A-first-attempt-to-create-a-360x180-degree-panorama-from-HD-video-tp23350121p23356600.html
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                          • Wim Koornneef
                            Hello David, ... I guess the image strips are a little to small (13px width) to make a good color adjustment possible so I didn t try this option but I could
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 3, 2009
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                              Hello David,


                              David Sykes-3 wrote:
                              >
                              > In SPM did you use the Auto Colour Adjustment to blend the image strips ?
                              >

                              I guess the image strips are a little to small (13px width) to make a good
                              color adjustment possible so I didn't try this option but I could be wrong.
                              I know it is possible in SPM to set the position of the strip for making
                              stereo panoramas but I couldn't figure out how to set the width of the strip
                              for a normal (not stereo) panorama and that is why I sliced the image frames
                              in Photoshop.
                              If there is an option in SPM to slice the images for a normal panorama then
                              I am sure that there is enough image data for a perfect Auto Colour
                              Adjustment.


                              David Sykes-3 wrote:
                              >
                              > Why was auto-exposure used for image capture, does movie mode not support
                              > locked exposure ?
                              >

                              I have no idea if it is possible to lock the exposure, I am not familiar
                              with the EOS 5DMKII, Frank shot the video so perhaps he can answer this
                              question, if not perhaps another group member can tell if exposure locking
                              is possible for the camera.

                              BTW, I also like to know if it is possible to set the amount of sharpening
                              and the compressing quality of the video.

                              Wim



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                            • Sacha Griffin
                              Yup there s an exposure lock in video mode. Sacha Griffin Southern Digital Solutions LLC http://www.southern-digital.com http://www.seeit360.net GMAIL
                              Message 14 of 17 , May 3, 2009
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                                Yup there's an exposure lock in video mode.

                                <-*->





                                Sacha Griffin

                                Southern Digital Solutions LLC

                                http://www.southern-digital.com

                                http://www.seeit360.net

                                GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@...

                                404-551-4275









                                From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of Wim Koornneef
                                Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:09 PM
                                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] A first attempt to create a 360x180 degree
                                panorama from HD video







                                I have no idea if it is possible to lock the exposure, I am not familiar
                                with the EOS 5DMKII, Frank shot the video so perhaps he can answer this
                                question, if not perhaps another group member can tell if exposure locking
                                is possible for the camera.

                                BTW, I also like to know if it is possible to set the amount of sharpening
                                and the compressing quality of the video.

                                Wim





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Wim Koornneef
                                Hello Sascha, That s good news, Frank confirmed it and he will shoot some more videos (shot in offset NPP position) that I will use for creating a 360x180
                                Message 15 of 17 , May 3, 2009
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                                  Hello Sascha,

                                  That's good news, Frank confirmed it and he will shoot some more videos
                                  (shot in offset NPP position) that I will use for creating a 360x180 degree
                                  3D panorama.
                                  If all goes well I will post the results later.
                                  I expect this can take some time so when "later" is I can't tell right now.

                                  Wim


                                  Sacha Griffin wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Yup there's an exposure lock in video mode.
                                  >
                                  > <-*->
                                  >

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