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Best body for the Nikkor 10.5 Fisheye

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  • Peter Krone
    Hi, I know that some of you use the Nikkor 10.5mm on a Canon 5D. I understand, that this is the only way to use this fabolous lens on a fullframe camera. But
    Message 1 of 27 , Sep 28 7:12 AM
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      Hi,
      I know that some of you use the Nikkor 10.5mm on a Canon 5D. I
      understand, that this is the only way to use this fabolous lens on a
      fullframe camera.

      But if it you are willing to shoot 6+1, you still get a fullsphere
      with a crop-camera. Isn't there a body with nikon-mount that can
      produce sharp panos?

      What are good combos?


      Thanks
      Peter
    • Robert C. Fisher
      Nikon D200 produces excellent results. Just about any camera, Canon5D, 20/30D, with a shorter flange focal distance than the Nikon F mount through the use of
      Message 2 of 27 , Sep 28 7:26 AM
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        Nikon D200 produces excellent results.

        Just about any camera, Canon5D, 20/30D, with a shorter flange focal
        distance than the Nikon F mount through the use of an adapter. The
        Canon EOS bodies have a shorter flange focal distance so they are
        perfect with the use of an adapter.

        I have been using my 10.5mm on my Fuji S2 for several years with
        great results, it is a Nikon body.

        On Sep 28, 2006, at 7:12 AM, Peter Krone wrote:

        > Hi,
        > I know that some of you use the Nikkor 10.5mm on a Canon 5D. I
        > understand, that this is the only way to use this fabolous lens on a
        > fullframe camera.
        >
        > But if it you are willing to shoot 6+1, you still get a fullsphere
        > with a crop-camera. Isn't there a body with nikon-mount that can
        > produce sharp panos?
        >
        > What are good combos?
        >
        > Thanks
        > Peter
        >


        Cheers
        Robert C. Fisher
        QTVR Photography/Cinematography
        www.rcfisher.com
      • Philippe Laval
        Hi, All the panorama, I made are taken with D200 + 10.5 mm I shoot 6 pictures + 1 for up + 1 or 3 for down (nadir) (usually 3 pictures : 2 with camera on head
        Message 3 of 27 , Sep 28 7:37 AM
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          Hi,

          All the panorama, I made are taken with D200 + 10.5 mm

          I shoot 6 pictures
          + 1 for up
          + 1 or 3 for down (nadir) (usually 3 pictures : 2 with camera on head
          and one with camera out of the head)

          You can look pano at http://philippe.laval.free.fr/Cannes/
          Look at fullscreen quicktime

          This are 6000 * 3000 pictures well degraded by jpeg compression from
          tiff. If you want a tiff, just ask.
          You can go up to 10000 * 5000 if I remember well.

          Philippe

          Le 28 sept. 06 à 16:12, Peter Krone a écrit :

          > Hi,
          > I know that some of you use the Nikkor 10.5mm on a Canon 5D. I
          > understand, that this is the only way to use this fabolous lens on a
          > fullframe camera.
          >
          > But if it you are willing to shoot 6+1, you still get a fullsphere
          > with a crop-camera. Isn't there a body with nikon-mount that can
          > produce sharp panos?
          >
          > What are good combos?
          >
          > Thanks
          > Peter
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • scott pruett
          Peter - Any body w/ the 10.5 on it will produce sharp panos - the size of the sensor doesn t affect this. Resolution is really only going to matter if you
          Message 4 of 27 , Sep 28 7:54 AM
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            Peter -

            Any body w/ the 10.5 on it will produce sharp panos - the size of the
            sensor doesn't affect this. Resolution is really only going to matter
            if you intend to bring your images into print, and even then, most
            current camera offerings will do wonderfully unless you're printing
            really huge.

            Why I say this... most web-only full-screen panos will be in the
            4000-6000 pixel width range. The 6mp cameras will output roughly a
            8000x4000 equirectangular image w/ the 10.5 aboard - read: 8000px wide.
            Obviously going up to 8-10-12+ megapixels will increase this
            exponentially, but it *really* is dependent on what you intend to do as
            to whether you need it or not.

            The advantage of using the 10.5 on a FF body is that you can shoot
            freehand easily b/c only 3-4 frames are needed for a full 360x180.
            You're not going to get tremendous resolution out of this combination,
            but it will be sharp.

            So... what do you intend to do? :)

            If you're looking for web / on-screen only, I'd buy a lower-end body,
            the 10.5, and a 360P head. Coupled with solid post-processing skills,
            I think you'd be dumbfounded at what a sub-$1k camera can do. We have
            a D70 & it works beautifully, despite the fact that it is technically
            antiquated in the digital camera world nowadays. I'd look at a D50 or
            D80 if I were in your shoes.

            HTH,
            scott


            On Thursday, September 28, 2006, at 10:12 am, Peter Krone wrote:

            > Hi,
            > I know that some of you use the Nikkor 10.5mm on a Canon 5D. I
            > understand, that this is the only way to use this fabolous lens on a
            > fullframe camera.
            >
            > But if it you are willing to shoot 6+1, you still get a fullsphere
            > with a crop-camera. Isn't there a body with nikon-mount that can
            > produce sharp panos?
            >
            > What are good combos?
            >
            > Thanks
            > Peter
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Peter Krone
            ... Did I get you right? The Canon bodies are better for this lens, even though your have to use an adaptor?
            Message 5 of 27 , Sep 28 7:59 AM
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              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert C. Fisher" <bob@...> wrote:
              > Just about any camera, Canon5D, 20/30D, with a shorter flange focal
              > distance than the Nikon F mount through the use of an adapter. The
              > Canon EOS bodies have a shorter flange focal distance so they are
              > perfect with the use of an adapter.

              Did I get you right? The Canon bodies are better for this lens, even
              though your have to use an adaptor?
            • Ian Wood
              ... They aren t *better*, it s just that Canon bodies will fit almost any lens from other manufacturers with adapters. If you wanted to use a 10.5mm on a
              Message 6 of 27 , Sep 28 8:15 AM
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                On 28 Sep 2006, at 15:59, Peter Krone wrote:

                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert C. Fisher" <bob@...>
                > wrote:
                >> Just about any camera, Canon5D, 20/30D, with a shorter flange focal
                >> distance than the Nikon F mount through the use of an adapter. The
                >> Canon EOS bodies have a shorter flange focal distance so they are
                >> perfect with the use of an adapter.
                >
                > Did I get you right? The Canon bodies are better for this lens, even
                > though your have to use an adaptor?

                They aren't *better*, it's just that Canon bodies will fit almost any
                lens from other manufacturers with adapters.

                If you wanted to use a 10.5mm on a Nikon-mount fullframe camera you
                could always look out for a second-hand Kodak, although they have
                noise issues.

                Ian
              • dalileis
                Huge thanks to Philippe for showing and sharing this. This is exactly what I hoped for someone would post soon. D200 + 10.5 mm. Results: excellent, my friend.
                Message 7 of 27 , Sep 28 11:27 AM
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                  Huge thanks to Philippe for showing and sharing this. This is exactly
                  what I hoped for someone would post soon. D200 + 10.5 mm. Results:
                  excellent, my friend. Bravo. And whatta combo this seems to be...

                  Two more things I'm dying to know now:

                  1. What is the exakt process you go through when stitching nadir,
                  Philippe? You stitch the 3 downshots, how? What do you do, accurately,
                  step-by-step? And how do you, then, get it to fit with the rest of
                  the pano? PTGui? Which technique are you using?

                  2. Also, what about the noise levels on D200? Canon cameras, in the
                  same class as Nikon alternatives, handle noise much better. Crucial
                  for darker environments, I believe, and even in the panos shot during
                  the sunny days, but where there are a lot of shadows on hand, I see
                  Canon, time after time, outperform Nikon. Judging from your panos, no
                  such worries with D200, or is there?

                  Merci bien!

                  Dali

                  > All the panorama, I made are taken with D200 + 10.5 mm
                  >
                  > I shoot 6 pictures
                  > + 1 for up
                  > + 1 or 3 for down (nadir) (usually 3 pictures : 2 with camera on head
                  > and one with camera out of the head)
                  >
                  > You can look pano at http://philippe.laval.free.fr/Cannes/
                  > Look at fullscreen quicktime

                  > Philippe
                • Philippe Laval
                  Dali You may look at the bottom of this page : http://360precision.com/ 360/360.cfm You can found 5 panoramas taken with D200 + 10.5 mm You can also download
                  Message 8 of 27 , Sep 28 12:15 PM
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                    Dali

                    You may look at the bottom of this page : http://360precision.com/
                    360/360.cfm

                    You can found 5 panoramas taken with D200 + 10.5 mm
                    You can also download the pictures before the stiching to look at
                    them and the final QT movie.
                    It is a good information about the result you can get (my panoramas
                    were compressed with jpeg heavely to decrease the whole size of the
                    QT VR movie)


                    > Two more things I'm dying to know now:
                    >
                    > 1. What is the exakt process you go through when stitching nadir,
                    > Philippe? You stitch the 3 downshots, how? What do you do, accurately,
                    > step-by-step? And how do you, then, get it to fit with the rest of
                    > the pano? PTGui? Which technique are you using?


                    You may want to take the time to download the movie showing the whole
                    process I am using.
                    Well I am not a "pro" like this guy ;-) It take me more time :-(

                    http://fromparis.com/html/
                    technical_us_create_a_quicktime_vr_in_10mnts.php

                    If you have still questions on editing the nadir, let me know.

                    > 2. Also, what about the noise levels on D200? Canon cameras, in the

                    For the noise level, I am usually using 100 ISO. With the f2.8 10.5
                    mm it is possible with ease.
                    I have good results also at 400 ISO but noise is increasing.
                    Only take raw pictures, use Nikon Capture or a better raw extractor
                    to get TIFF files.
                    You may use D-Lighting to decrease the contrast (it is currently what
                    I do but i have to try HDR also when possible (no movment on the
                    picture)).

                    This panorama was taken at 400 ISO :

                    http://philippe.laval.free.fr/Tourrettes_Sur_Loup/index.php?
                    panorama=Tourrettes14_3000&format=Quicktime

                    Hope this will help you.
                    Regards
                    Philippe,_._,___



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                  • dalileis
                    Personal favorite from the collection you linked us to: http://tinyurl.com/o69kk Really, really nice atmosphere you painted there! And the quallity of the
                    Message 9 of 27 , Sep 28 12:23 PM
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                      Personal favorite from the collection you linked us to:

                      http://tinyurl.com/o69kk

                      Really, really nice atmosphere you "painted" there! And the quallity
                      of the combo speaks for itself, too.

                      ...

                      This one is fine, aswell, but you do know that there are some quite
                      obvious stitching errors in it, right? ;) The white line etc...

                      http://tinyurl.com/mhj7e

                      ...

                      Cheers!
                    • dalileis
                      ... Nice! Will do! ... Was suspecting you are using this, but now I know for certain. =) ... It did help, thanks again and looking forward to seeing more of
                      Message 10 of 27 , Sep 28 12:57 PM
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                        > You may look at the bottom of this page : http://360precision.com/
                        > 360/360.cfm
                        >
                        > You can found 5 panoramas taken with D200 + 10.5 mm
                        > You can also download the pictures before the stiching to look at
                        > them and the final QT movie.

                        Nice! Will do!

                        > http://fromparis.com/html/
                        > technical_us_create_a_quicktime_vr_in_10mnts.php

                        Was suspecting you are using this, but now I know for certain. =)


                        > For the noise level, I am usually using 100 ISO. With the f2.8 10.5
                        > mm it is possible with ease.
                        > I have good results also at 400 ISO but noise is increasing.

                        > Hope this will help you.
                        > Regards
                        > Philippe,_._,___

                        It did help, thanks again and looking forward to seeing more of your
                        splendid panos! BTW: Cannes reminds me a whole lot of the city I am
                        currently in, Split, Croatia. It's like I'm lookin at the "riva"
                        (that's what they call the seashore here). Same colors, moods and the
                        overall ambiance. Even the squashed old streets with lovely
                        restaurants, caffes and so on definitely ring a bell. Haven't done
                        much shooting myself in Split, but am planning on it, and then you'll
                        see for yourself. =)

                        À la vôtre!

                        /Dali
                      • Roger D. Williams
                        ... I am reasonalby happy with my D200, although coming from film I find its restricted dynamic range a real pain. Roger -- Using Opera s revolutionary e-mail
                        Message 11 of 27 , Sep 28 7:08 PM
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                          On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:12:56 +0900, Peter Krone <mail@...> wrote:

                          > Hi,
                          > I know that some of you use the Nikkor 10.5mm on a Canon 5D. I
                          > understand, that this is the only way to use this fabolous lens on a
                          > fullframe camera.
                          >
                          > But if it you are willing to shoot 6+1, you still get a fullsphere
                          > with a crop-camera. Isn't there a body with nikon-mount that can
                          > produce sharp panos?
                          >
                          > What are good combos?

                          I am reasonalby happy with my D200, although coming from film I find
                          its restricted dynamic range a real pain.

                          Roger

                          --
                          Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
                        • Roger D. Williams
                          On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:15:37 +0900, Ian Wood ... My D200 has a noise issue. Roger -- Using Opera s revolutionary e-mail client:
                          Message 12 of 27 , Sep 28 7:10 PM
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                            On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:15:37 +0900, Ian Wood <panolists@...>
                            wrote:

                            >
                            > On 28 Sep 2006, at 15:59, Peter Krone wrote:
                            >
                            >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert C. Fisher" <bob@...>
                            >> wrote:
                            >>> Just about any camera, Canon5D, 20/30D, with a shorter flange focal
                            >>> distance than the Nikon F mount through the use of an adapter. The
                            >>> Canon EOS bodies have a shorter flange focal distance so they are
                            >>> perfect with the use of an adapter.
                            >>
                            >> Did I get you right? The Canon bodies are better for this lens, even
                            >> though your have to use an adaptor?
                            >
                            > They aren't *better*, it's just that Canon bodies will fit almost any
                            > lens from other manufacturers with adapters.
                            >
                            > If you wanted to use a 10.5mm on a Nikon-mount fullframe camera you
                            > could always look out for a second-hand Kodak, although they have
                            > noise issues.

                            My D200 has a noise issue.

                            Roger

                            --
                            Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
                          • Alan Ritter
                            Here s another example of a pan shot with the 10.5 Nikkor on a Nikon D200 body: http://www.mtritter.org/Meramec/ The QTVR version is larger and sharper than
                            Message 13 of 27 , Sep 28 8:31 PM
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                              Here's another example of a pan shot with the 10.5 Nikkor on a Nikon
                              D200 body:

                              http://www.mtritter.org/Meramec/

                              The QTVR version is larger and sharper than the Java view that comes up
                              with the page.

                              This one was shot 8 shots in portrait orientation plus zenith and
                              nadir. The D200 is mounted on a custom bracket that I designed that
                              gives me pin-indexed stops at the 45s plus a second axis to flip the
                              camera up for the zenith shot. Nadir is, of course, hand-held.

                              I've been shooting Nikon film SLRs for the better part of 40 years and
                              am VERY pleased with the D200, especially since it'll use all of my old
                              (manual focus) Nikkor glass.

                              /s/jar (Alan Ritter, jar@...)
                              http://www.mtritter.org
                            • smarfingerfeulcher
                              As a new D-80 owner i can attest that this camera looks very promising. I ve completed two panos with the 10.5 and believe it to be noticeably sharper than my
                              Message 14 of 27 , Sep 28 9:14 PM
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                                As a new D-80 owner i can attest that this camera looks very
                                promising. I've completed two panos with the 10.5 and believe it to be
                                noticeably sharper than my D-70, at least at f 8.0 which is the area
                                where I'm most comfortable.

                                I've posted one to WWP/Transportation titled "Raw material for roads
                                and runways!" which may be useful as a small cog in assessing the camera.

                                For my money the camera has noticeably less latitude for
                                underexposure, but as I gain experience this opinion may change.
                              • Roger D. Williams
                                On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:14:52 +0900, smarfingerfeulcher ... That last remark interests me. I have been unpleasantly surprised by the D200 s lack of tolerance
                                Message 15 of 27 , Sep 29 12:55 AM
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                                  On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:14:52 +0900, smarfingerfeulcher
                                  <rmlcd@...> wrote:

                                  > As a new D-80 owner i can attest that this camera looks very
                                  > promising. I've completed two panos with the 10.5 and believe it to be
                                  > noticeably sharper than my D-70, at least at f 8.0 which is the area
                                  > where I'm most comfortable.
                                  >
                                  > I've posted one to WWP/Transportation titled "Raw material for roads
                                  > and runways!" which may be useful as a small cog in assessing the camera.
                                  >
                                  > For my money the camera has noticeably less latitude for
                                  > underexposure, but as I gain experience this opinion may change.

                                  That last remark interests me. I have been unpleasantly surprised by the
                                  D200's lack of tolerance for underexposure, or perhaps I should say its
                                  generally restricted dynamic range. Of course, I come from a lifetime of
                                  using colour negative film, so I may be seeing nothing unusual for
                                  digital photography. But I am finding it hard to cope. I thought I had
                                  problems with movement at the seams. But now I have problems ALL OVER THE
                                  PANORAMA if I try to use HDR. Argh.

                                  In Japan, the D80 is very highly evaluated for its dynamic range tweaking
                                  ability. Don't know what it's called in English, but there are three
                                  levels of dynamic range compression (well, whether you call it compression
                                  or expansion depends on your point of view). From the pictures I have seen
                                  in the mags, it can make a remarkably good job of filling in shadow detail
                                  on strongly backlit subjects. I could use that in my panoramas.

                                  Have you explored this feature/function?

                                  Roger W.

                                  --
                                  Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
                                • smarfingerfeulcher
                                  Odd you should mention it since the pano has a strongly backlit component that has minimal detail. I wasn t aware of this correction and can t find it on the
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Sep 30 1:28 AM
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                                    Odd you should mention it since the pano has a strongly backlit
                                    component that has minimal detail.

                                    I wasn't aware of this correction and can't find it on the menus. I'll
                                    get the manual out and have a go today.... I've been running tone
                                    compensation on auto, if that is what you refer to.

                                    I'll also take a look at CaptureNX, which is also new to me and
                                    totally confusing in its new and "better" presentation of options.....
                                  • John Riley
                                    Ah, a new version of Capture is out! If you are a Mac user, could you tell us whether it still supports tethered shooting and whether the applescript commands
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Oct 1, 2006
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                                      Ah, a new version of Capture is out! If you are a Mac user, could
                                      you tell us whether it still supports tethered shooting and whether
                                      the applescript commands for capturing images have been fixed?

                                      If you are not a Mac user, is there anyone else who is that can comment?

                                      Thanks,

                                      John

                                      John Riley
                                      johnriley@...
                                      jriley@...




                                      On Sep 30, 2006, at 4:28 AM, smarfingerfeulcher wrote:

                                      > 'll also take a look at CaptureNX, which is also new to me and
                                      > totally confusing in its new and "better" presentation of options.....



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • smarfingerfeulcher
                                      Sorry. PC....
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Oct 1, 2006
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                                        Sorry. PC....
                                      • smarfingerfeulcher
                                        ... tweaking ... compression ... have seen ... detail ... I have yet to try it, since it seems pretty much useless. The feature is listed under mul;tiple
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Oct 2, 2006
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                                          Roger Williams asked:

                                          > In Japan, the D80 is very highly evaluated for its dynamic range
                                          tweaking
                                          > ability. Don't know what it's called in English, but there are three
                                          > levels of dynamic range compression (well, whether you call it
                                          compression
                                          > or expansion depends on your point of view). From the pictures I
                                          have seen
                                          > in the mags, it can make a remarkably good job of filling in shadow
                                          detail
                                          > on strongly backlit subjects. I could use that in my panoramas.
                                          >
                                          > Have you explored this feature/function?
                                          >
                                          > Roger W.
                                          >
                                          I have yet to try it, since it seems pretty much useless. The feature
                                          is listed under mul;tiple exposure and seems to offer the option of
                                          two or three images combined, if I read things correctly, taken over a
                                          one stop range. That is, three pix at 1/2 stop intervals or two a stop
                                          apart. You seem to otherwise have no control--can't change the
                                          exposure of quantity numbers beyond those two options.

                                          My concern on a pano is that the combined images will not match
                                          well....so I usually work around the problem in other ways...

                                          If someone has tried this with more optimistic results, I'd like to
                                          see them....
                                          >
                                        • Roger D. Williams
                                          On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:14:06 +0900, smarfingerfeulcher ... We may not be talking about the same thing. The explanation I read said that image processing
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Oct 2, 2006
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                                            On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:14:06 +0900, smarfingerfeulcher
                                            <rmlcd@...> wrote:

                                            > Roger Williams asked:
                                            >
                                            >> In Japan, the D80 is very highly evaluated for its dynamic range
                                            > tweaking ability.

                                            > I have yet to try it, since it seems pretty much useless. The feature
                                            > is listed under mul;tiple exposure and seems to offer the option of
                                            > two or three images combined, if I read things correctly, taken over a
                                            > one stop range. That is, three pix at 1/2 stop intervals or two a stop
                                            > apart. You seem to otherwise have no control--can't change the
                                            > exposure of quantity numbers beyond those two options.

                                            We may not be talking about the same thing. The explanation I read said
                                            that image processing developed detail in the shadow areas, and the
                                            examples given (mild, normal and strong) were VERY impressive. As I
                                            said, the feature is highly evaulated.

                                            > My concern on a pano is that the combined images will not match
                                            > well....so I usually work around the problem in other ways...

                                            Yes, this is the problem I have with HDR, and why I am so impressed with
                                            the new D80 feature. I saw no mention of multiple exposure but I wasn't
                                            looking for it and it WAS in Japanese. <g>

                                            > If someone has tried this with more optimistic results, I'd like to
                                            > see them....

                                            If it weren't for the copyright issues I'd scan the photos attached to
                                            the article I read. Very impressive indeed.

                                            Roger W.

                                            --
                                            Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
                                          • Ian Wood
                                            ... The only things I ve seen mentioned in reviews are in-camera multiple exposure blending, and in-camera shadow/highlight correction. Dynamic range tests
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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                                              On 3 Oct 2006, at 02:57, Roger D. Williams wrote:

                                              > On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:14:06 +0900, smarfingerfeulcher
                                              > <rmlcd@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >> Roger Williams asked:
                                              >>
                                              >>> In Japan, the D80 is very highly evaluated for its dynamic range
                                              >> tweaking ability.
                                              >
                                              >> I have yet to try it, since it seems pretty much useless. The
                                              >> feature
                                              >> is listed under mul;tiple exposure and seems to offer the option of
                                              >> two or three images combined, if I read things correctly, taken
                                              >> over a
                                              >> one stop range. That is, three pix at 1/2 stop intervals or two a
                                              >> stop
                                              >> apart. You seem to otherwise have no control--can't change the
                                              >> exposure of quantity numbers beyond those two options.
                                              >
                                              > We may not be talking about the same thing. The explanation I read
                                              > said
                                              > that image processing developed detail in the shadow areas, and the
                                              > examples given (mild, normal and strong) were VERY impressive. As I
                                              > said, the feature is highly evaluated.

                                              The only things I've seen mentioned in reviews are in-camera multiple
                                              exposure blending, and in-camera shadow/highlight correction. Dynamic
                                              range tests such as <http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/
                                              page19.asp> show it to be identical in dynamic range to other current
                                              cameras such as the 30D.

                                              Ian
                                            • Roger D. Williams
                                              On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:46:49 +0900, Ian Wood ... It s definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the Sony Alpha
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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                                                On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:46:49 +0900, Ian Wood <panolists@...>
                                                wrote:

                                                >
                                                > On 3 Oct 2006, at 02:57, Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                                >
                                                >> On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:14:06 +0900, smarfingerfeulcher
                                                >> <rmlcd@...> wrote:
                                                >>
                                                >>> Roger Williams asked:
                                                >>>
                                                >>>> In Japan, the D80 is very highly evaluated for its dynamic range
                                                >>> tweaking ability.
                                                >>
                                                >>> I have yet to try it, since it seems pretty much useless. The
                                                >>> feature
                                                >>> is listed under mul;tiple exposure and seems to offer the option of
                                                >>> two or three images combined, if I read things correctly, taken
                                                >>> over a
                                                >>> one stop range. That is, three pix at 1/2 stop intervals or two a
                                                >>> stop
                                                >>> apart. You seem to otherwise have no control--can't change the
                                                >>> exposure of quantity numbers beyond those two options.
                                                >>
                                                >> We may not be talking about the same thing. The explanation I read
                                                >> said
                                                >> that image processing developed detail in the shadow areas, and the
                                                >> examples given (mild, normal and strong) were VERY impressive. As I
                                                >> said, the feature is highly evaluated.
                                                >
                                                > The only things I've seen mentioned in reviews are in-camera multiple
                                                > exposure blending, and in-camera shadow/highlight correction. Dynamic
                                                > range tests such as <http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/
                                                > page19.asp> show it to be identical in dynamic range to other current
                                                > cameras such as the 30D.

                                                It's definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the
                                                Sony Alpha had this, but I don't follow Canons, and didn't know the
                                                30D had it. Anyway, however it compares, it seems like a very useful
                                                thing to have and I sure wish I had it!

                                                Actually, of course, dpreview was very scathing about the Fuji S3, but
                                                they did not test it appropriately, and failed to get the potential
                                                from it. Unusual for them... (I refer to the wider range that the
                                                dual honycomb feature secures).

                                                Roger W.


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                                              • Ian Wood
                                                ... As far as I know the 30D doesn t have HS correction - it s just very similar in dynamic range to the D80. Of course, what you do to the image afterwards is
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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                                                  On 3 Oct 2006, at 10:20, Roger D. Williams wrote:

                                                  > It's definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the
                                                  > Sony Alpha had this, but I don't follow Canons, and didn't know the
                                                  > 30D had it. Anyway, however it compares, it seems like a very useful
                                                  > thing to have and I sure wish I had it!

                                                  As far as I know the 30D doesn't have HS correction - it's just very
                                                  similar in dynamic range to the D80. Of course, what you do to the
                                                  image afterwards is irrelevant as far as *captured* DR is concerned.

                                                  In-camera HS correction is absolutely useless to panoramic shooters,
                                                  though. :-(

                                                  Ian
                                                • Roger D. Williams
                                                  On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:46:07 +0900, Ian Wood ... You can say that although you haven t seen the results that so impressed me? I
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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                                                    On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:46:07 +0900, Ian Wood <panolists@...>
                                                    wrote:

                                                    >
                                                    > On 3 Oct 2006, at 10:20, Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >> It's definitely the in-camera shadow/highlight correction. I knew the
                                                    >> Sony Alpha had this, but I don't follow Canons, and didn't know the
                                                    >> 30D had it. Anyway, however it compares, it seems like a very useful
                                                    >> thing to have and I sure wish I had it!
                                                    >
                                                    > As far as I know the 30D doesn't have HS correction - it's just very
                                                    > similar in dynamic range to the D80. Of course, what you do to the
                                                    > image afterwards is irrelevant as far as *captured* DR is concerned.
                                                    >
                                                    > In-camera HS correction is absolutely useless to panoramic shooters,
                                                    > though. :-(

                                                    You can say that although you haven't seen the results that so
                                                    impressed me? I am surprised to find so negative an attitude. I'd
                                                    keep an open mind about it if I were you. I lust after the clear
                                                    improvement I see, and know EXACTLY how it would help solve
                                                    problems I encounter almost daily.

                                                    Roger W.

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                                                  • Wheaton, Simon
                                                    Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation though? I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image, applying
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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                                                      Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation
                                                      though?

                                                      I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image,
                                                      applying different parameters to each image. Or does it use the same
                                                      parameters for multiple images, with some sort of manual/locked
                                                      settings?

                                                      Simon
                                                      Canberra
                                                      AUSTRALIA

                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: Roger D. Williams
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2006 11:13 AM

                                                      > In-camera HS correction is absolutely useless to panoramic shooters,
                                                      > though. :-(

                                                      You can say that although you haven't seen the results that so
                                                      impressed me? I am surprised to find so negative an attitude. I'd
                                                      keep an open mind about it if I were you. I lust after the clear
                                                      improvement I see, and know EXACTLY how it would help solve
                                                      problems I encounter almost daily.

                                                      Roger W.

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                                                    • Roger D. Williams
                                                      On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:16:34 +0900, Wheaton, Simon ... That s a valid concern, Simon, and I can t answer by experience as I don t have a D80, but I do have
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Oct 3, 2006
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                                                        On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:16:34 +0900, Wheaton, Simon
                                                        <simon.wheaton@...> wrote:

                                                        > Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation
                                                        > though?
                                                        >
                                                        > I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image,
                                                        > applying different parameters to each image. Or does it use the same
                                                        > parameters for multiple images, with some sort of manual/locked
                                                        > settings?

                                                        That's a valid concern, Simon, and I can't answer by experience as I
                                                        don't have a D80, but I do have experience of producing HDR images
                                                        individually and then stitching them together. PTgui, which I use,
                                                        is quite capable of smoothly integrating all of the images into a
                                                        consistent (-looking?) panorama although the individual frames may
                                                        have been treated slightly differently from each other and even
                                                        look slightly different from one another.

                                                        So I tend to think that this approach would greatly simplify my
                                                        work and that it is being seriously underestimated by those who
                                                        haven't tried it. I, of course, may have the opposite fault. <g>

                                                        Roger W.


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                                                      • Ian Wood
                                                        ... That was the point, but I hadn t made it clear. Oops. This is something I know through bitter experience - any kind of locally dependant
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Oct 4, 2006
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                                                          On 4 Oct 2006, at 03:16, Wheaton, Simon wrote:

                                                          > Is it going to work in a multi-image pano shooting/stitching situation
                                                          > though?
                                                          >
                                                          > I would think that the processing would be dependant on each image,
                                                          > applying different parameters to each image.

                                                          That was the point, but I hadn't made it clear. Oops.

                                                          This is something I know through bitter experience - any kind of
                                                          'locally dependant' filter/adjustment such as highlight/shadow
                                                          recovery can only be safely applied to the stitched panorama. Do it
                                                          before stitching and you can end up with images that differ so
                                                          drastically in tone at the edges that even Enblend has trouble
                                                          matching them up.

                                                          Take the case of a panorama where image A is made up of just shadow
                                                          area, overlapping with image B which only has shadow area on the edge
                                                          - HS adjustments will lighten the whole of image A, but will NOT do
                                                          the same amount of lightening to the equivalent area on image B
                                                          because the amount of lightening is based on the *size* of the dark
                                                          area. I once ran Photoshop's HS adjustment on all the images for a
                                                          panorama and it was hopeless - even with fixed parameters rather than
                                                          automatic adjustment.

                                                          I stand by my statement that it's a useless feature for panoramic
                                                          photographers, but it IS great for every one else!

                                                          Ian
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