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Re: Custom build panorama camera

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  • tom_a_sparks
    could anybody explain the exact requirements needed? for 2 fisheye setup ... From: Alexandre Poltorak Subject: Re: 2 camera To:
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 31 12:12 AM
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      could anybody explain the exact requirements needed?
      for 2 fisheye setup

      --- On Tue, 31/3/09, Alexandre Poltorak <alexandre.poltorak@...> wrote:
      From: Alexandre Poltorak <alexandre.poltorak@...>
      Subject: Re: 2 camera
      To: "Tom Sparks" <tom_a_sparks@...>
      Cc: info@...
      Received: Tuesday, 31 March, 2009, 5:38 PM

      Hello Tom,

      We do not have such casing yet, but it is simple to design one. Please explain your exact needs. All our current casing parts are documented here: http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=Elphel_camera_parts

      You can use two camera with http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=10369 board and synchronized sensors or one camera with http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=10359 and 2 sensors (10359 have on board FPGA and memory, you could even port your stitching software into the hardware). We also have a (mega)panoramic prototype : http://community.elphel.com/pictures/elphel354-10-open.jpg

      Please do not hesitate if you have any other questions regarding our hardware.
      Best regards,
      Alexandre

      On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:20 AM, Tom Sparks <tom_a_sparks@...> wrote:
      <snip>
    • Bruno Postle
      ... A compromise would be to have two fisheyes back-to-back on a sliding rail, so they can both shoot from the same no-parallax point. With the right mechanism
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 31 2:25 AM
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        On Tue 31-Mar-2009 at 09:54 +0000, Keith Martin wrote:
        >Sometime around 31/3/09 (at 07:12 +0000) tom_a_sparks said:
        >
        >>could anybody explain the exact requirements needed?
        >>for 2 fisheye setup
        >
        >Two fisheye lenses that achieve greater than 180 degrees of view,
        >placed with their nodal points as close as physically possible.
        >Preferably closer.

        A compromise would be to have two fisheyes back-to-back on a sliding
        rail, so they can both shoot from the same no-parallax point.

        With the right mechanism should be possible to fire them
        sequentially within a fraction of a second.

        The same system would work with three cameras at 120° side-to-side
        on a rail and you might even get decent quality results.

        --
        Bruno
      • tom_a_sparks
        ... how many of you would want to buy one? and who can put programing time in to it? ... Hi, We do not have the metal parts for this kind of usage. You can
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 31 2:42 AM
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          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sometime around 31/3/09 (at 10:25 +0100) Bruno Postle said:
          >
          > >With the right mechanism should be possible to fire them
          > >sequentially within a fraction of a second.
          >
          > And still have just enough time to leap over and catch the tripod as
          > the recoil knocks it over... :-)
          >
          > Good point though, that might work.
          >
          > k
          >
          how many of you would want to buy one?
          and who can put programing time in to it?

          --- On Tue, 31/3/09, Alexandre Poltorak <alexandre@...> wrote:
          Hi,

          We do not have the metal parts for this kind of usage. You can build a custom casing or we can do it.

          The camera hardware itself is suitable for your needs.

          How many of such cameras would you need ?

          Best regards,
          Alexandre
        • Roger D. Williams
          ... Or attached to a kind of rocker that flips between two fixed positions, one being the NPP for one lens and the other for the other lens. That could be very
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 31 2:51 AM
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            On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:25:53 +0900, Bruno Postle <bruno@...> wrote:

            > On Tue 31-Mar-2009 at 09:54 +0000, Keith Martin wrote:
            >> Sometime around 31/3/09 (at 07:12 +0000) tom_a_sparks said:
            >>
            >>> could anybody explain the exact requirements needed?
            >>> for 2 fisheye setup
            >>
            >> Two fisheye lenses that achieve greater than 180 degrees of view,
            >> placed with their nodal points as close as physically possible.
            >> Preferably closer.
            >
            > A compromise would be to have two fisheyes back-to-back on a sliding
            > rail, so they can both shoot from the same no-parallax point.

            Or attached to a kind of rocker that flips between two fixed
            positions, one being the NPP for one lens and the other for
            the other lens. That could be very fast (and would need to be).

            > With the right mechanism should be possible to fire them
            > sequentially within a fraction of a second.
            >
            > The same system would work with three cameras at 120° side-to-side
            > on a rail and you might even get decent quality results.

            Mechanically this would not be quite so simple, but might be
            workable with a cam that has three faces... If located centrally
            it could pull each lens assembly in turn back into the NPP
            position and be turned rapidly, rather like a Gatling gun.

            Fascinating problem of geometry and simple but precise machining.

            Roger W.

            --
            Work: www.adex-japan.com
          • Bjørn K Nilssen
            ... Maybe, but if you can t fire them at the same time anyway, IMHO you d be much better off with one camera/lens that rotates 120 degrees (or 180 degrees)
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 31 2:53 AM
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              On 31 Mar 2009 at 10:34, Keith Martin wrote:

              > Sometime around 31/3/09 (at 10:25 +0100) Bruno Postle said:
              >
              > >With the right mechanism should be possible to fire them
              > >sequentially within a fraction of a second.
              >
              > And still have just enough time to leap over and catch the tripod as
              > the recoil knocks it over... :-)
              >
              > Good point though, that might work.

              Maybe, but if you can't fire them at the same time anyway, IMHO you'd be much better off
              with one camera/lens that rotates 120 degrees (or 180 degrees) very fast?

              --
              Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
            • Keith Martin
              ... Two fisheye lenses that achieve greater than 180 degrees of view, placed with their nodal points as close as physically possible. Preferably closer. ...
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 31 2:54 AM
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                Sometime around 31/3/09 (at 07:12 +0000) tom_a_sparks said:

                >could anybody explain the exact requirements needed?
                >for 2 fisheye setup

                Two fisheye lenses that achieve greater than 180 degrees of view,
                placed with their nodal points as close as physically possible.
                Preferably closer.


                >From: Alexandre Poltorak <alexandre.poltorak@...>
                >Subject: Re: 2 camera

                [...]

                >We also have a (mega)panoramic prototype :
                >http://community.elphel.com/pictures/elphel354-10-open.jpg

                Can you spell "pa-ra-llax"? :-)

                k
              • Keith Martin
                ... And still have just enough time to leap over and catch the tripod as the recoil knocks it over... :-) Good point though, that might work. k
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 31 3:34 AM
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                  Sometime around 31/3/09 (at 10:25 +0100) Bruno Postle said:

                  >With the right mechanism should be possible to fire them
                  >sequentially within a fraction of a second.

                  And still have just enough time to leap over and catch the tripod as
                  the recoil knocks it over... :-)

                  Good point though, that might work.

                  k
                • Keith Martin
                  ... It sounds like a fun thing - but count me out. k
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 31 3:43 AM
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                    >how many of you would want to buy one?

                    It sounds like a fun thing - but count me out.

                    k
                  • Jim Watters
                    ... What about Dan Slater s Spherecam http://www.nearfield.com/~dan/photo/wide/sphere/index.htm Jim Watters
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 31 6:29 AM
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                      tom_a_sparks wrote:
                      > could anybody explain the exact requirements needed?
                      > for 2 fisheye setup
                      >
                      What about Dan Slater's Spherecam
                      http://www.nearfield.com/~dan/photo/wide/sphere/index.htm

                      Jim Watters
                    • Luca N Vascon
                      http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wS40_s20yY4/RcbiYjM22gI/AAAAAAAAACo/_ZCHnLROW6E/s1600-h/mrotatorr_01_ing.gif ... Want to know the incredible thing? It WORKS About
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 31 6:55 AM
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                        http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wS40_s20yY4/RcbiYjM22gI/AAAAAAAAACo/_ZCHnLROW6E/s1600-h/mrotatorr_01_ing.gif
                        :-))
                        Want to know the incredible thing? It WORKS
                        About ephel cameras...
                        Would be VERY interesting for me knowing what kind of lenses I can throw
                        in, dimensions of the chips, resolution, and how to build a 3 cameras
                        solution!!
                        :-DDD

                        Keith Martin ha scritto:
                        >
                        > >how many of you would want to buy one?
                        >
                        > It sounds like a fun thing - but count me out.
                        >
                        > k
                        >
                        >
                      • michel thoby
                        Inspired by Dan who pioneered along while back, I tried last year with somewhat more recent gear. I have found that two-shots panoramas can be actually
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 31 7:10 AM
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                          Inspired by Dan who pioneered along while back, I tried last year
                          with somewhat more recent gear. I have found that two-shots panoramas
                          can be actually stitched fine as long as no subject is really very
                          close.
                          I wanted to evaluate a way to do "simultaneous two-shots" but
                          unfortunately the camera I used obviously doesn't meet the
                          requirement;-(
                          http://michel.thoby.free.fr/DuoPix/DuoPix_solution.html
                          Quite promising anyhow.

                          Regards,

                          Michel Thoby
                          Le 31 mars 09 à 15:29, Jim Watters a écrit :

                          > tom_a_sparks wrote:
                          > > could anybody explain the exact requirements needed?
                          > > for 2 fisheye setup
                          > >
                          > What about Dan Slater's Spherecam
                          > http://www.nearfield.com/~dan/photo/wide/sphere/index.htm
                          >
                          > Jim Watters
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Keith Martin
                          ... Yep, that was always one heck of a construction. But would it work perfectly in a critical close-quarters situation? Unless we ve all been fooling
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 31 7:24 AM
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                            Sometime around 31/3/09 (at 15:55 +0200) Luca N Vascon said:

                            >http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wS40_s20yY4/RcbiYjM22gI/AAAAAAAAACo/_ZCHnLROW6E/s1600-h/mrotatorr_01_ing.gif
                            >:-))
                            >Want to know the incredible thing? It WORKS

                            Yep, that was always one heck of a construction. But would it work
                            perfectly in a critical close-quarters situation? Unless we've all
                            been fooling ourselves with 'nodal nonsense' then I think not...

                            Still impressive engineering though. :-)

                            k
                          • panovrx
                            ... If you want a 2 camera spherical solution that is generally useful the NPPs of the two lenses have to be I think no more than say 6cm apart. I have shot
                            Message 13 of 14 , Mar 31 8:05 AM
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                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Jim Watters <jwatters@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > tom_a_sparks wrote:
                              > > could anybody explain the exact requirements needed?
                              > > for 2 fisheye setup
                              > >
                              > What about Dan Slater's Spherecam
                              > http://www.nearfield.com/~dan/photo/wide/sphere/index.htm
                              >
                              > Jim Watters
                              >

                              If you want a 2 camera spherical solution that is generally useful the NPPs of the two lenses have to be I think no more than say 6cm apart. I have shot 360 panoramic movies with two Canon5Ds with 10.5mm Nikkors and the results are only ok down to about 3m

                              Which points towards compact (tethered) sensors and mini-fisheye lenses. It is interesting that the Ephels can be configured with tethered sensors
                              http://community.elphel.com/pictures/elphel354-10-open.jpg. There are very flat compact (tethered) sensors now but there is a dearth of full featured micro fisheye lenses. the Sunex range is ok, and the fisheye lens that comes with the Gopro Wide is nice but they lack aperture control

                              Custom fisheye cameras with fisheye prime lenses make more sense I think for single lens video fisheye work where compactness is not so critical. Then you can use cameras like the Sumix 2/3 caamera,and the Fujinon fisheyes

                              http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/alternative-imaging-methods/104870-sumix-2-3-1920x1080-cmos.html


                              Peter M
                            • Luca N Vascon
                              THANX! It was the result of one year of mad tests... IF you use it with a Nikon (or other 1.5x at least) the overlap is enough to ensure a very, very good
                              Message 14 of 14 , Mar 31 9:12 AM
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                                THANX!
                                It was the result of one year of mad tests...
                                IF you use it with a Nikon (or other 1.5x at least) the overlap is
                                enough to ensure a very, very good stitching.
                                You can expect some errors and some discontinuity, but if you optimize
                                also POINT OF VIEW (Ptgui pro 8.0) and use smartblend you can say that
                                those error are minimized.
                                You can also (after a proper renaming of folder) have a batch building
                                (not levelling!) of all panos made that day.
                                No control points nor optimization required.
                                I think once you forget nadir perfection and you let some stitching
                                errors go, you can use the thing within a 6 mts tolerance, going down to
                                4 with wise orientation of the 3 cameras, smartblend and POV optimizing.
                                No miracles, but some nice result!
                                Would like to try with 3 shaved 10.5 on 5d or D700...


                                Keith Martin ha scritto:
                                >
                                > Sometime around 31/3/09 (at 15:55 +0200) Luca N Vascon said:
                                >
                                > >http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wS40_s20yY4/RcbiYjM22gI/AAAAAAAAACo/_ZCHnLROW6E/s1600-h/mrotatorr_01_ing.gif
                                > <http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wS40_s20yY4/RcbiYjM22gI/AAAAAAAAACo/_ZCHnLROW6E/s1600-h/mrotatorr_01_ing.gif>
                                > >:-))
                                > >Want to know the incredible thing? It WORKS
                                >
                                > Yep, that was always one heck of a construction. But would it work
                                > perfectly in a critical close-quarters situation? Unless we've all
                                > been fooling ourselves with 'nodal nonsense' then I think not...
                                >
                                > Still impressive engineering though. :-)
                                >
                                > k
                                >
                                >
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