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Mini Point and Shoot Cameras

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  • Paul Fretheim
    I just ordered a Nikon Coolpix s710 point and shoot camera with full manual shooting option. Is anybody using these tiny cameras for panoramic work? They are
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 29, 2009
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      I just ordered a Nikon Coolpix s710 point and shoot camera with full
      manual shooting option. Is anybody using these tiny cameras for
      panoramic work? They are such cool technology I want to have one just
      for fun, and I am sure, sometimes, I will find situations where it's the
      only camera I have with me. I got a tripod that weighs less than 70
      grams, and the camera, in the case, probably weighs around 250 grams
      including battery and SDHC card. So a complete camera kit less than a
      kilo the size of a pack of cards!

      What sort of luck are people having with mini cameras for panos?

      Paul Fretheim
    • Roger D. Williams
      ... I just checked the price and specs of this camera, as I am very interested in finding a really small camera that can take panoramas. I was a bit
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 29, 2009
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        On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:20:28 +0900, Paul Fretheim <paul@...> wrote:

        > I just ordered a Nikon Coolpix s710 point and shoot camera with full
        > manual shooting option. Is anybody using these tiny cameras for
        > panoramic work? They are such cool technology I want to have one just
        > for fun, and I am sure, sometimes, I will find situations where it's the
        > only camera I have with me. I got a tripod that weighs less than 70
        > grams, and the camera, in the case, probably weighs around 250 grams
        > including battery and SDHC card. So a complete camera kit less than a
        > kilo the size of a pack of cards!
        >
        > What sort of luck are people having with mini cameras for panos?

        I just checked the price and specs of this camera, as I am very interested
        in finding a really small camera that can take panoramas.

        I was a bit disappointed to see that the range of focal lengths in the
        built-in zoom only goes down to 28mm (equivalent).

        That's going to mean far too much stitching for my taste. And a check of
        the accessories available doesn't even include a wide-angle adaptor,
        let alone a fisheye adaptor (and it's not clear that one could be
        attached anyway).

        Roger W.

        --
        Work: www.adex-japan.com
      • tom_a_sparks
        ... why don t we writing a wishlist and see if there is a open source camera that can be the bases for this project
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 29, 2009
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          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
          >
          > On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:20:28 +0900, Paul Fretheim <paul@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I just ordered a Nikon Coolpix s710 point and shoot camera with full
          > > manual shooting option. Is anybody using these tiny cameras for
          > > panoramic work? They are such cool technology I want to have one just
          > > for fun, and I am sure, sometimes, I will find situations where it's the
          > > only camera I have with me. I got a tripod that weighs less than 70
          > > grams, and the camera, in the case, probably weighs around 250 grams
          > > including battery and SDHC card. So a complete camera kit less than a
          > > kilo the size of a pack of cards!
          > >
          > > What sort of luck are people having with mini cameras for panos?
          >
          > I just checked the price and specs of this camera, as I am very interested
          > in finding a really small camera that can take panoramas.
          >
          > I was a bit disappointed to see that the range of focal lengths in the
          > built-in zoom only goes down to 28mm (equivalent).
          >
          > That's going to mean far too much stitching for my taste. And a check of
          > the accessories available doesn't even include a wide-angle adaptor,
          > let alone a fisheye adaptor (and it's not clear that one could be
          > attached anyway).
          >

          why don't we writing a wishlist
          and see if there is a open source camera that can be the bases for this project
        • Roger D. Williams
          On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:25:14 +0900, tom_a_sparks ... Open source HARDware? That would be nice. But I won t hold my breath. Roger -- Work: www.adex-japan.com
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 29, 2009
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            On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:25:14 +0900, tom_a_sparks
            <tom_a_sparks@...> wrote:

            > why don't we writing a wishlist
            > and see if there is a open source camera that can be the bases for this
            > project

            Open source HARDware? That would be nice. But I won't hold my breath.

            Roger

            --
            Work: www.adex-japan.com
          • tom_a_sparks
            ... you would be turning blue :) Camera maker http://www3.elphel.com/ that has he s hardware under gnu gpl they have 5, 11 and 15megapixel cameras
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 29, 2009
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              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:25:14 +0900, tom_a_sparks
              > <tom_a_sparks@...> wrote:
              >
              > > why don't we writing a wishlist
              > > and see if there is a open source camera that can be the bases for this
              > > project
              >
              > Open source HARDware? That would be nice. But I won't hold my breath.
              you would be turning blue :)

              Camera maker http://www3.elphel.com/ that has he's hardware under gnu gpl
              they have 5, 11 and 15megapixel cameras
            • Roger D. Williams
              On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 15:24:15 +0900, tom_a_sparks ... I visited the site. I am amazed that they would open up the hardware designs under gnu gpl. But I suppose
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 30, 2009
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                On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 15:24:15 +0900, tom_a_sparks
                <tom_a_sparks@...> wrote:

                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>
                > wrote:
                >>
                >> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:25:14 +0900, tom_a_sparks
                >> <tom_a_sparks@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> > why don't we writing a wishlist
                >> > and see if there is a open source camera that can be the bases for
                >> this
                >> > project
                >>
                >> Open source HARDware? That would be nice. But I won't hold my breath.
                > you would be turning blue :)
                >
                > Camera maker http://www3.elphel.com/ that has he's hardware under gnu gpl
                > they have 5, 11 and 15megapixel cameras

                I visited the site. I am amazed that they would open up the hardware
                designs under gnu gpl. But I suppose it's not so very different from
                the way the same principle works with software.

                I think you were right to suggest that we draw up a wishlist. Mine would
                include true circular fisheye with slightly greater than 180-degree FOV,
                and manual exposure settings. I would accept fixed focus, even fixed
                aperture... And programmable remote control.

                Roger W.

                --
                Work: www.adex-japan.com
              • Paul Fretheim
                ... 28 mm equivalent is as wide as these cameras go. I have not seen any adapters or other optional lenses offered. The camera I bought has the type of lens
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 30, 2009
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                  > was a bit disappointed to see that the range of focal lengths in the
                  > built-in zoom only goes down to 28mm (equivalent)
                  > .
                  >
                  > That's going to mean far too much stitching for my taste. And a check of
                  > the accessories available doesn't even include a wide-angle adaptor,
                  > let alone a fisheye adaptor (and it's not clear that one could be
                  > attached anyway).

                  28 mm equivalent is as wide as these cameras go. I have not seen any
                  adapters or other optional lenses offered. The camera I bought has the
                  type of lens that retracts into the body when not in use. I use lenses
                  up to 50 mm frequently in my scenic panoramic work, shooting 77 images
                  per panorama, so I am used to working with large numbers of images.
                  PTGui works great, so it's not as much work as it used to be.

                  I shoot RAW with my DSLR. It will be interesting to experiment with
                  jpeg, which is all most mini point and shoot cameras will record. I
                  know that jpeg makes it harder for PTGui to find control points.
                  Panasonic has a new model point and shoot that will record RAW. All the
                  others, and there are about 500 models out there now, offer jpeg only.

                  Paul
                • tom_a_sparks
                  ... I would have two image sensors/lens to get a 360 degree in one shot on-camera software 2xfisheye to Equirectangular and 2xfisheye to rectilinear
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 30, 2009
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                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I think you were right to suggest that we draw up a wishlist. Mine would
                    > include true circular fisheye with slightly greater than 180-degree FOV,
                    > and manual exposure settings. I would accept fixed focus, even fixed
                    > aperture... And programmable remote control.
                    >
                    I would have two image sensors/lens to get a 360 degree in one shot
                    on-camera software 2xfisheye to Equirectangular and 2xfisheye to rectilinear
                  • Philipp B. Koch
                    ... That would be totally awesome. But besides the pecuniary aspect -- where would you stand/hide if the photo had 360° with one shot? Maybe around a corner
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 30, 2009
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                      tom_a_sparks schrieb:
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> I think you were right to suggest that we draw up a wishlist. Mine would
                      >> include true circular fisheye with slightly greater than 180-degree FOV,
                      >> and manual exposure settings. I would accept fixed focus, even fixed
                      >> aperture... And programmable remote control.
                      >>
                      >>
                      > I would have two image sensors/lens to get a 360 degree in one shot
                      > on-camera software 2xfisheye to Equirectangular and 2xfisheye to rectilinear
                      >
                      That would be totally awesome. But besides the pecuniary aspect -- where
                      would you stand/hide if the photo had 360° with one shot? Maybe around a
                      corner (behind a tree) or something, releasing the camera with a
                      wireless remote, haha :-)

                      Philipp
                    • tom_a_sparks
                      ... I would have a time delay, photo loop that shoots after X number of seconds until there is exit request, and a true command and control via a mini-laptop
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 30, 2009
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                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Philipp B. Koch" <pk@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > tom_a_sparks schrieb:
                        > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >> I think you were right to suggest that we draw up a wishlist. Mine would
                        > >> include true circular fisheye with slightly greater than 180-degree FOV,
                        > >> and manual exposure settings. I would accept fixed focus, even fixed
                        > >> aperture... And programmable remote control.
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > > I would have two image sensors/lens to get a 360 degree in one shot
                        > > on-camera software 2xfisheye to Equirectangular and 2xfisheye to rectilinear
                        > >
                        > That would be totally awesome. But besides the pecuniary aspect -- where
                        > would you stand/hide if the photo had 360° with one shot?
                        > releasing the camera with a wireless remote, haha :-)

                        I would have a time delay, photo loop that shoots after X number of seconds until there is exit request, and a true command and control via a mini-laptop
                      • bohonus
                        Opteka makes a bunch of different wide angle and fisheye lenses for point & shoots. I have a fisheye coming today that I ordered for my little Canon SD800. I
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 30, 2009
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                          Opteka makes a bunch of different wide angle and fisheye lenses for point & shoots. I have a fisheye coming today that I ordered for my little Canon SD800.

                          I have CHDK loaded on the SD800 to give me things like raw, exposure bracketing, focus bracketing etc. The initial tests have gone well. Now all that is left is to see how much the fisheye will trash the quality of the images, and to what degree post production can bring it back. Hopefully, I may be able to still get something reasonable out of it! :)


                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Paul Fretheim <paul@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > was a bit disappointed to see that the range of focal lengths in the
                          > > built-in zoom only goes down to 28mm (equivalent)
                          > > .
                          > >
                          > > That's going to mean far too much stitching for my taste. And a check of
                          > > the accessories available doesn't even include a wide-angle adaptor,
                          > > let alone a fisheye adaptor (and it's not clear that one could be
                          > > attached anyway).
                          >
                          > 28 mm equivalent is as wide as these cameras go. I have not seen any
                          > adapters or other optional lenses offered. The camera I bought has the
                          > type of lens that retracts into the body when not in use. I use lenses
                          > up to 50 mm frequently in my scenic panoramic work, shooting 77 images
                          > per panorama, so I am used to working with large numbers of images.
                          > PTGui works great, so it's not as much work as it used to be.
                          >
                          > I shoot RAW with my DSLR. It will be interesting to experiment with
                          > jpeg, which is all most mini point and shoot cameras will record. I
                          > know that jpeg makes it harder for PTGui to find control points.
                          > Panasonic has a new model point and shoot that will record RAW. All the
                          > others, and there are about 500 models out there now, offer jpeg only.
                          >
                          > Paul
                          >
                        • Roger D. Williams
                          ... Do keep us posted and show us your results. Roger W. -- Work: www.adex-japan.com
                          Message 12 of 28 , Mar 30, 2009
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                            On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:56:11 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:

                            > Opteka makes a bunch of different wide angle and fisheye lenses for
                            > point & shoots. I have a fisheye coming today that I ordered for my
                            > little Canon SD800.
                            >
                            > I have CHDK loaded on the SD800 to give me things like raw, exposure
                            > bracketing, focus bracketing etc. The initial tests have gone well. Now
                            > all that is left is to see how much the fisheye will trash the quality
                            > of the images, and to what degree post production can bring it back.
                            > Hopefully, I may be able to still get something reasonable out of it! :)

                            Do keep us posted and show us your results.

                            Roger W.

                            --
                            Work: www.adex-japan.com
                          • Paul D. DeRocco
                            ... I don t think it s possible to do that and not have parallax problems with nearby stuff. -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul
                            Message 13 of 28 , Mar 30, 2009
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                              > From: tom_a_sparks
                              >
                              > I would have two image sensors/lens to get a 360 degree in one shot
                              > on-camera software 2xfisheye to Equirectangular and 2xfisheye to
                              > rectilinear

                              I don't think it's possible to do that and not have parallax problems with
                              nearby stuff.

                              --

                              Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
                              Paul mailto:pderocco@...
                            • tom_a_sparks
                              ... what about what was done here http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20081120/161500/ ?
                              Message 14 of 28 , Mar 30, 2009
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                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > From: tom_a_sparks
                                > >
                                > > I would have two image sensors/lens to get a 360 degree in one shot
                                > > on-camera software 2xfisheye to Equirectangular and 2xfisheye to
                                > > rectilinear
                                >
                                > I don't think it's possible to do that and not have parallax problems with
                                > nearby stuff.
                                what about what was done here http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20081120/161500/ ?
                              • Steve Morton
                                ... Lucky IPIX is no longer with us. IPIX would try to have this company by the throat! Cya Steve
                                Message 15 of 28 , Mar 30, 2009
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                                  tom_a_sparks wrote:
                                  > what about what was done here
                                  > http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20081120/161500/

                                  Lucky IPIX is no longer with us. IPIX would try to have this company by
                                  the throat!

                                  Cya
                                  Steve
                                • Paul Fretheim
                                  Hi Bradford, We would probably be acquainted if I still lived in Seattle. When I was working on my first big VR project, Take Home Death Valley National Park
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Mar 31, 2009
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                                    Hi Bradford,

                                    We would probably be acquainted if I still lived in Seattle. When I was
                                    working on my first big VR project, "Take Home Death Valley National
                                    Park in Virtual Reality" I closed up my office on Ballard Avenue and
                                    moved down here to the desert on the east side of the Sierra Nevada.
                                    Maybe we have corresponded before, I am not sure. Anyway, could you
                                    please expand on what you wrote regarding your modifications to your
                                    point and click camera?

                                    > Opteka makes a bunch of different wide angle and fisheye lenses for
                                    > point & shoots. I have a fisheye coming today that I ordered for my
                                    > little Canon SD800.
                                    I went to the Opteka site but none of the lenses I looked at listed
                                    either your camera or mine as cameras the lens would attach to. They
                                    mostly seemed to list those style of cameras that look like fake SLRs
                                    that are quite a bit bigger than the tiny point and shoot ones like my
                                    Nikon Coolpix S 710.
                                    >
                                    > I have CHDK loaded on the SD800 to give me things like raw, exposure
                                    > bracketing, focus bracketing etc. The initial tests have gone well.
                                    > Now all that is left is to see how much the fisheye will trash the
                                    > quality of the images, and to what degree post production can bring it
                                    > back. Hopefully, I may be able to still get something reasonable out
                                    > of it! :)

                                    What is CHDK?

                                    Paul Fretheim
                                  • David Sykes
                                    ... It is software on the SD card that certain Canon cameras are tricked into using when you power-up :- http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK My lightweight and
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Mar 31, 2009
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                                      Paul Fretheim wrote:

                                      > What is CHDK?

                                      It is software on the SD card that certain Canon cameras are 'tricked' into using when you power-up :-

                                      http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK


                                      My lightweight and specialised alternative is known as SDM (StereoData Maker) :-

                                      http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/sdm/index.htm

                                      The image of the acrobat in mid flight is by Peter Murphy.



                                      David
                                    • Ken Warner
                                      Why did you decide on the SD800?
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Apr 1, 2009
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                                        Why did you decide on the SD800?

                                        Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                        > On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:56:11 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>Opteka makes a bunch of different wide angle and fisheye lenses for
                                        >>point & shoots. I have a fisheye coming today that I ordered for my
                                        >>little Canon SD800.
                                        >>
                                        >>I have CHDK loaded on the SD800 to give me things like raw, exposure
                                        >>bracketing, focus bracketing etc. The initial tests have gone well. Now
                                        >>all that is left is to see how much the fisheye will trash the quality
                                        >>of the images, and to what degree post production can bring it back.
                                        >>Hopefully, I may be able to still get something reasonable out of it! :)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Do keep us posted and show us your results.
                                        >
                                        > Roger W.
                                        >
                                      • bohonus
                                        ... I already had an SD800 (for non-vr personal snapshots etc), and it was something on which I could try out CHDK as well. When CHDK is ported to the new
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Apr 1, 2009
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                                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Why did you decide on the SD800?


                                          I already had an SD800 (for non-vr personal snapshots etc), and it was something on which I could try out CHDK as well. When CHDK is ported to the new SD990 (14MP), that might be worth a look too.

                                          I have been experimenting with the SD800 & Opteka fisheye the past few days. So far the results are interesting and one can certainly make a VR using this combo. The quality of the lens of course leaves much to be desired, which certainly effects the final VR. A Nikon/Canon/Sigma fisheye it certainly is not! lol! :)

                                          I still need to figure out a simple and compact way to accurately rotate the camera for taking the shots. I have just been "eyeballing it" up until now and it is effecting the stitching of course.

                                          When I have some completed VR images that aren't of me staring at the camera in my boring livingroom (we have had ongoing cold & rainy weather here in Seattle) I will certainly post them.

                                          The bracketing (& RAW) functions provided by CHDK really helps clean up the images by reducing noise and extending the dynamic range of the SD800.

                                          But that lens... uughh.. like someone smeared Vaseline all over it! (especially the edges). It is like I am shooting VR with a Holga. Quite a jump going from that to the Panoscan to say the least ;)

                                          There's an "Opteka" group on flickr if any of you wish to see more of what this lens produces before I can get anything posted up here.

                                          -b


                                          > Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                          > > On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:56:11 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >>Opteka makes a bunch of different wide angle and fisheye lenses for
                                          > >>point & shoots. I have a fisheye coming today that I ordered for my
                                          > >>little Canon SD800.
                                          > >>
                                          > >>I have CHDK loaded on the SD800 to give me things like raw, exposure
                                          > >>bracketing, focus bracketing etc. The initial tests have gone well. Now
                                          > >>all that is left is to see how much the fisheye will trash the quality
                                          > >>of the images, and to what degree post production can bring it back.
                                          > >>Hopefully, I may be able to still get something reasonable out of it! :)
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Do keep us posted and show us your results.
                                          > >
                                          > > Roger W.
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Jeffrey Martin
                                          But that lens... uughh.. like someone smeared Vaseline all over it! ... Then why on earth are you using this sub-quality setup in the first place? Jeffrey
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Apr 2, 2009
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                                            But that lens... uughh.. like someone smeared Vaseline all over it!
                                            > (especially the edges). It is like I am shooting VR with a Holga. Quite a
                                            > jump going from that to the Panoscan to say the least ;)
                                            >

                                            Then why on earth are you using this sub-quality setup in the first place?



                                            Jeffrey Martin

                                            www.360cities.net - The World in Virtual Reality
                                            tel. +420 608 076 502 / skype jeffrey.s.martin /
                                            http://twitter.com/360cities


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • paul womack
                                            ... Do you know of ANY non-interchangeable lens camera that goes lower? BugBear
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Apr 2, 2009
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                                              Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                              > I was a bit disappointed to see that the range of focal lengths in the
                                              > built-in zoom only goes down to 28mm (equivalent).

                                              Do you know of ANY non-interchangeable lens camera that goes lower?

                                              BugBear
                                            • panovrx
                                              ... yes the GoPro Hero Wide, that I wrote about before http://www.goprocamera.com/index.php?area=2&productid=1 has the equivalent of a 16mm full frame fisheye
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Apr 2, 2009
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                                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, paul womack <pwomack@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                                > > I was a bit disappointed to see that the range of focal lengths in the
                                                > > built-in zoom only goes down to 28mm (equivalent).
                                                >
                                                > Do you know of ANY non-interchangeable lens camera that goes lower?
                                                >
                                                > BugBear
                                                >

                                                yes the GoPro Hero Wide, that I wrote about before
                                                http://www.goprocamera.com/index.php?area=2&productid=1
                                                has the equivalent of a 16mm full frame fisheye lens ... but its AE only, AWB only, full aperture only, and so so dynamic range, features .. limit its
                                                panoramic usefulness -- but it is the size of a matchbox and it comes with a nice lens you can fit to other M12 mount cameras

                                                Peter M
                                              • Hans Nyberg
                                                ... Many Panasonic compacts and also Ricoh have 24mm as standard today Hans
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Apr 2, 2009
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                                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, paul womack <pwomack@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                                  > > I was a bit disappointed to see that the range of focal lengths in the
                                                  > > built-in zoom only goes down to 28mm (equivalent).
                                                  >
                                                  > Do you know of ANY non-interchangeable lens camera that goes lower?
                                                  >

                                                  Many Panasonic compacts and also Ricoh have 24mm as standard today

                                                  Hans
                                                • Hans Nyberg
                                                  ... Panasonic and Leica has several starting at 24 or 25mm http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Panasonic/ http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Leica/
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Apr 2, 2009
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                                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, paul womack <pwomack@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                                    > > > I was a bit disappointed to see that the range of focal lengths in the
                                                    > > > built-in zoom only goes down to 28mm (equivalent).
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Do you know of ANY non-interchangeable lens camera that goes lower?
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > Many Panasonic compacts and also Ricoh have 24mm as standard today
                                                    >

                                                    Panasonic and Leica has several starting at 24 or 25mm
                                                    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Panasonic/
                                                    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Leica/

                                                    Samsung just released some new ones with 24mm
                                                    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Samsung/

                                                    Ricoh has the Capillo 100 and the newer 200 with 24mm and extra option for 19mm
                                                    I have the older 100 which has everything manual you can wish including manual focus but unfortunately RAW is very slow. 6 sec before next shot. The lens is sharp and very little distortion but noise is high if you shoot anything above 100ISO
                                                    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Ricoh/

                                                    Hans
                                                  • Roger D. Williams
                                                    On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:25:24 +0900, paul womack ... Yes. One is made by Kodak, and specifically caters for panorama stitching within
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Apr 2, 2009
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                                                      On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:25:24 +0900, paul womack <pwomack@...>
                                                      wrote:

                                                      > Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                                      >> I was a bit disappointed to see that the range of focal lengths in the
                                                      >> built-in zoom only goes down to 28mm (equivalent).
                                                      >
                                                      > Do you know of ANY non-interchangeable lens camera that goes lower?

                                                      Yes. One is made by Kodak, and specifically caters for panorama stitching
                                                      within the camera. There are others on sale in Japan. Typically they go
                                                      down to about 24 or 25mm, but this is quite a big difference. Every mm
                                                      counts! Don't know about outside Japan, though.

                                                      Roger W.

                                                      --
                                                      Work: www.adex-japan.com
                                                    • bohonus
                                                      ... The Kodak Easy Share camera (the one with two lenses) does 23mm. But it has been fairly unique in this regard.
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Apr 2, 2009
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                                                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, paul womack <pwomack@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                                        > > I was a bit disappointed to see that the range of focal lengths in the
                                                        > > built-in zoom only goes down to 28mm (equivalent).
                                                        >
                                                        > Do you know of ANY non-interchangeable lens camera that goes lower?
                                                        >
                                                        > BugBear

                                                        The Kodak "Easy Share" camera (the one with two lenses) does 23mm. But it has been fairly unique in this regard.
                                                      • Luca N Vascon
                                                        _http://www.panoramio.com/photo/20391480_ Nikon P6000 with FC-E8, hand held. I would not go for a camera with more than 10 megapixel. Horribly soft... I own
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Apr 2, 2009
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                                                          _http://www.panoramio.com/photo/20391480_

                                                          Nikon P6000 with FC-E8, hand held.
                                                          I would not go for a camera with more than 10 megapixel.
                                                          Horribly soft...
                                                          I own also a Canon A640 that I LOVE.
                                                          Not lower than 28 for a p&s... expecially if you want to fit an fce8.
                                                          Canon A590 would be my choice.

                                                          VERY curious about the new superfast casio.
                                                          ANYONE TRIED?!


                                                          bohonus ha scritto:
                                                          >
                                                          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...> wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Why did you decide on the SD800?
                                                          >
                                                          > I already had an SD800 (for non-vr personal snapshots etc), and it was
                                                          > something on which I could try out CHDK as well. When CHDK is ported
                                                          > to the new SD990 (14MP), that might be worth a look too.
                                                          >
                                                          > I have been experimenting with the SD800 & Opteka fisheye the past few
                                                          > days. So far the results are interesting and one can certainly make a
                                                          > VR using this combo. The quality of the lens of course leaves much to
                                                          > be desired, which certainly effects the final VR. A Nikon/Canon/Sigma
                                                          > fisheye it certainly is not! lol! :)
                                                          >
                                                          > I still need to figure out a simple and compact way to accurately
                                                          > rotate the camera for taking the shots. I have just been "eyeballing
                                                          > it" up until now and it is effecting the stitching of course.
                                                          >
                                                          > When I have some completed VR images that aren't of me staring at the
                                                          > camera in my boring livingroom (we have had ongoing cold & rainy
                                                          > weather here in Seattle) I will certainly post them.
                                                          >
                                                          > The bracketing (& RAW) functions provided by CHDK really helps clean
                                                          > up the images by reducing noise and extending the dynamic range of the
                                                          > SD800.
                                                          >
                                                          > But that lens... uughh.. like someone smeared Vaseline all over it!
                                                          > (especially the edges). It is like I am shooting VR with a Holga.
                                                          > Quite a jump going from that to the Panoscan to say the least ;)
                                                          >
                                                          > There's an "Opteka" group on flickr if any of you wish to see more of
                                                          > what this lens produces before I can get anything posted up here.
                                                          >
                                                          > -b
                                                          >
                                                          > > Roger D. Williams wrote:
                                                          > > > On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:56:11 +0900, bohonus <bradford@...> wrote:
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >>Opteka makes a bunch of different wide angle and fisheye lenses for
                                                          > > >>point & shoots. I have a fisheye coming today that I ordered for my
                                                          > > >>little Canon SD800.
                                                          > > >>
                                                          > > >>I have CHDK loaded on the SD800 to give me things like raw, exposure
                                                          > > >>bracketing, focus bracketing etc. The initial tests have gone
                                                          > well. Now
                                                          > > >>all that is left is to see how much the fisheye will trash the
                                                          > quality
                                                          > > >>of the images, and to what degree post production can bring it back.
                                                          > > >>Hopefully, I may be able to still get something reasonable out of
                                                          > it! :)
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Do keep us posted and show us your results.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Roger W.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          >

                                                          --
                                                          IUAV università degli studi, Venezia

                                                          Dr. Luca Vascon
                                                          tel . (+39) 041.2571262, e-mail vascon@...

                                                          laboratorio multimedia Facoltà di Design e Arti, DADI
                                                          Magazzino 7 ex Ligabue, Dorsoduro 1827 30123 Venezia
                                                        • Paul Fretheim
                                                          ... Thank you Hans. I will receive a Nikon S 710 today. It s widest setting is 28 mm, and it will require a firmware update if it is to record in RAW mode.
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Apr 3, 2009
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                                                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:

                                                            > Ricoh has the Capillo 100 and the newer 200 with 24mm and extra option
                                                            > for 19mm
                                                            > I have the older 100 which has everything manual you can wish
                                                            > including manual focus but unfortunately RAW is very slow. 6 sec
                                                            > before next shot. The lens is sharp and very little distortion but
                                                            > noise is high if you shoot anything above 100ISO
                                                            > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Ricoh/
                                                            > <http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Ricoh/>

                                                            Thank you Hans. I will receive a Nikon S 710 today. It's widest
                                                            setting is 28 mm, and it will require a firmware update if it is to
                                                            record in RAW mode. I haven't found such an upgrade yet.

                                                            I had a Fujifilm Finepix F100fd for a week or so, but returned it
                                                            because the "manual mode" in the product descriptions did not include
                                                            exposure control, which made it unusable as far as I was concerned for
                                                            pano work. Also there was an unacceptable amount of noise in most
                                                            images, and the higher iso settings (up to 6400) were terribly noisy.

                                                            If the Nikon proves unworkable now I have another option - the Ricoh
                                                            cameras that I had not considered. I was just reading a review of the
                                                            Ricoh Caplio GX200 and it looks like an interesting camera. The
                                                            Fujifilm model was $163, after rebate. The Nikon was $251 at Adorama.
                                                            The Ricoh is $499. The detachable viewfinder of the Caplio GX200 is an
                                                            intriguing feature. It attaches to the flash shoe and the image is
                                                            through the lens, but transmitted electronically from the sensor, not
                                                            via a mirror.

                                                            One reviewer of the Caplio GX200 remarked that all SLR cameras should
                                                            use this technology and do away with the vibration and noise of a mirror
                                                            permanently. Sounds like a good idea.

                                                            The description of the Caplio GX200 also referred to a 19 mm capability
                                                            in the correction features of the firmware. There may be an optional
                                                            lens of some kind that goes to 19 mm, I haven't researched that yet.

                                                            Paul
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