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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Underground panorama lighting suggestions anyone?

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  • homoludens
    Last year I visited the Ostwall bunkers in Poland. The biggest problem I had was to find exact focus in total darkness. I recommand to take a strong laser
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 3, 2009
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      Last year I visited the Ostwall bunkers in Poland. The biggest problem I had
      was to find exact focus in total darkness. I recommand to take a strong
      laser
      pointer or a narrow beam torch with you just for focusing.
      I used an external flash for lighting. The camera was in bulb mode. This
      worked ok, besides the shadows and harsh light sometimes.
      Constant light has the advantage, that you don't have to run around but
      concentrate on the camera.

      What about gas laterns? They have a good weight to light output ratio.

      Cheers,
      Luk
      --
      View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Underground-panorama-lighting-suggestions-anyone--tp22298715p22305229.html
      Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
    • Bjørn K Nilssen
      ... I would definitely use some small, cheap and powerful LED lights. Like this camping light (US$12)
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 3, 2009
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        On 2 Mar 2009 at 22:52, klroost wrote:

        > I have a location I am going to shoot a pano in, the location is
        > underground. I have shot panos in the underground environment before,
        > specifically in an abandoned gypsum mine. That location was
        > challenging, but it was not that bad. I had places for tealights, the
        > surfaces were all at a decent distance. Thru a combination of
        > tealights, lightpainting and the built in flash I managed a decent
        > panorama.
        >
        > The location I am now contemplating presents an even more difficult
        > lighting challenge. Some surfaces are very close(1m[3 feet] or less),
        > while others are essentially at infinity. There is nowhere to place
        > tealights or the like. There is a fair amount of water vapor in the
        > air, which will more than likely negate the use of the built in flash.
        > This will make getting even exposures difficult(kit lens, I have to
        > take 38 shots), to say the least.
        >
        > Does anyone have any advice or suggestions for lighting? Any tips or
        > tricks are welcome also.

        I would definitely use some small, cheap and powerful LED lights.
        Like this camping light (US$12)
        http://www.biltema.no/products/productimage.asp?iItemId=133237
        which has 7 LEDs that can be switched on/off in 3 patterns/strengths, making it very
        flexible. And it can easily be directed in any direction, or used for painting light..
        Many LED torches have blueish light, so you should test them first.

        --
        Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
      • Marcus Hamilton
        ... I have a similar challenge coming up. I was planning to use a couple of Speedlights remotely and a commander unit. Anyone tried this? Same problems with
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 4, 2009
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          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "klroost" <etterz@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have a location I am going to shoot a pano in, the location is
          > underground. I have shot panos in the underground environment before,
          > specifically in an abandoned gypsum mine. That location was
          > challenging, but it was not that bad. I had places for tealights, the
          > surfaces were all at a decent distance. Thru a combination of
          > tealights, lightpainting and the built in flash I managed a decent
          > panorama.
          >
          > The location I am now contemplating presents an even more difficult
          > lighting challenge. Some surfaces are very close(1m[3 feet] or less),
          > while others are essentially at infinity. There is nowhere to place
          > tealights or the like. There is a fair amount of water vapor in the
          > air, which will more than likely negate the use of the built in flash.
          > This will make getting even exposures difficult(kit lens, I have to
          > take 38 shots), to say the least.
          >
          > Does anyone have any advice or suggestions for lighting? Any tips or
          > tricks are welcome also.
          >
          > If it makes any difference I am going to be shooting from the "middle"
          > of a waterfall(I hope, I may have to shoot from the top or bottom of
          > the falls). I will also have to carry whatever I am going to use for
          > lighting by hand for an extended distance(400-500m) while stooped
          > over, so weight will be an issue.
          >
          > Thanks in advance
          > K
          >
          I have a similar challenge coming up. I was planning to use a couple of Speedlights remotely and a commander unit. Anyone tried this? Same problems with stitching the shadows I guess.
          Marcus
        • klroost
          Thank you for the replies everyone. I think I am going to try to find some of the caylume lights sticks in an appropriate color and use them to highlight the
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 4, 2009
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            Thank you for the replies everyone.
            I think I am going to try to find some of the caylume lights sticks in an appropriate color and use them to highlight the structural outlines, then just go at it with light painting. There just aren't any places to hide extra light sources such as lanterns. I tried to find that 900lumen flashlight, but it is not imported into the states by the vendor.
            thanks again
            K


            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "klroost" <etterz@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have a location I am going to shoot a pano in, the location is
            > underground. I have shot panos in the underground environment before,
            > specifically in an abandoned gypsum mine. That location was
            > challenging, but it was not that bad. I had places for tealights, the
            > surfaces were all at a decent distance. Thru a combination of
            > tealights, lightpainting and the built in flash I managed a decent
            > panorama.
            >
            > The location I am now contemplating presents an even more difficult
            > lighting challenge. Some surfaces are very close(1m[3 feet] or less),
            > while others are essentially at infinity. There is nowhere to place
            > tealights or the like. There is a fair amount of water vapor in the
            > air, which will more than likely negate the use of the built in flash.
            > This will make getting even exposures difficult(kit lens, I have to
            > take 38 shots), to say the least.
            >
            > Does anyone have any advice or suggestions for lighting? Any tips or
            > tricks are welcome also.
            >
            > If it makes any difference I am going to be shooting from the "middle"
            > of a waterfall(I hope, I may have to shoot from the top or bottom of
            > the falls). I will also have to carry whatever I am going to use for
            > lighting by hand for an extended distance(400-500m) while stooped
            > over, so weight will be an issue.
            >
            > Thanks in advance
            > K
            >
          • Juergen Schrader
            If you still wish to look for flashlights you may Google for Surefire and Fenix. Cheers Jürgen
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 4, 2009
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              If you still wish to look for flashlights you may Google for Surefire and Fenix.

              Cheers
              Jürgen

              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "klroost" <etterz@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thank you for the replies everyone.
              > I think I am going to try to find some of the caylume lights sticks in an appropriate color and use them to highlight the structural outlines, then just go at it with light painting. There just aren't any places to hide extra light sources such as lanterns. I tried to find that 900lumen flashlight, but it is not imported into the states by the vendor.
              > thanks again
              > K
              >
              >
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "klroost" <etterz@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I have a location I am going to shoot a pano in, the location is
              > > underground. I have shot panos in the underground environment before,
              > > specifically in an abandoned gypsum mine. That location was
              > > challenging, but it was not that bad. I had places for tealights, the
              > > surfaces were all at a decent distance. Thru a combination of
              > > tealights, lightpainting and the built in flash I managed a decent
              > > panorama.
              > >
              > > The location I am now contemplating presents an even more difficult
              > > lighting challenge. Some surfaces are very close(1m[3 feet] or less),
              > > while others are essentially at infinity. There is nowhere to place
              > > tealights or the like. There is a fair amount of water vapor in the
              > > air, which will more than likely negate the use of the built in flash.
              > > This will make getting even exposures difficult(kit lens, I have to
              > > take 38 shots), to say the least.
              > >
              > > Does anyone have any advice or suggestions for lighting? Any tips or
              > > tricks are welcome also.
              > >
              > > If it makes any difference I am going to be shooting from the "middle"
              > > of a waterfall(I hope, I may have to shoot from the top or bottom of
              > > the falls). I will also have to carry whatever I am going to use for
              > > lighting by hand for an extended distance(400-500m) while stooped
              > > over, so weight will be an issue.
              > >
              > > Thanks in advance
              > > K
              > >
              >
            • pedro_silva58
              if you re still looking for a hi power light, and money is not a big problem, you may want to look for a Microfire Warrior K3500R, rated at 3500lumens...
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 5, 2009
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                if you're still looking for a hi power light, and money is not a big problem, you may want to look for a Microfire Warrior K3500R, rated at 3500lumens...
                cheers,
                pedro

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "klroost" <etterz@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thank you for the replies everyone.
                > I think I am going to try to find some of the caylume lights sticks in an appropriate color and use them to highlight the structural outlines, then just go at it with light painting. There just aren't any places to hide extra light sources such as lanterns. I tried to find that 900lumen flashlight, but it is not imported into the states by the vendor.
                > thanks again
                > K
              • Bjørn K Nilssen
                ... I started out as a search for a replacement for small tea lights IIRC ;) OTOH, where are you going to hide the light sticks then K? I m looking forward to
                Message 7 of 20 , Mar 5, 2009
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                  On 5 Mar 2009 at 12:51, pedro_silva58 wrote:

                  > if you're still looking for a hi power light, and money is not a big problem, you may
                  > want to look for a Microfire Warrior K3500R, rated at 3500lumens...

                  I started out as a search for a replacement for small tea lights IIRC ;)

                  OTOH, where are you going to hide the light sticks then K?
                  I'm looking forward to see the results. Sounds like a real challenge shooting a pano from
                  the middle of a waterfall inside a dark cave witha kit lens (38 shots?). If you start
                  moving lights around (light painting) I think you will face big stitching problems,
                  unless there are many easily visible features to put control points on.

                  Could you show us the ones you did before, with tea lights?


                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "klroost" <etterz@...> wrote:

                  > > Thank you for the replies everyone. > I think I am going to try to find some of the
                  > caylume lights sticks in an appropriate color and use them to highlight the structural
                  > outlines, then just go at it with light painting. There just aren't any places to hide
                  > extra light sources such as lanterns. I tried to find that 900lumen flashlight, but it
                  > is not imported into the states by the vendor. > thanks again > K

                  --
                  Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                • Mark D. Fink
                  What if you used a potato masher style flash unit, like one of the Metz ones which has a 360 degree diffuser? Then, you could shoot multiple bulb exposures,
                  Message 8 of 20 , Mar 5, 2009
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                    What if you used a "potato masher" style flash unit, like one of the Metz
                    ones which has a 360 degree diffuser? Then, you could shoot multiple bulb
                    exposures, the first "popping" the flash once, the second, popping it twice,
                    the third exposure, popping it four times, etc...

                    Eventually, the accumulated pops of flash would light even the distant
                    reaches, and you could use enfuse to merge them into one properly lit scene.
                    The trick is keeping track of what exposure you are on, and how many times
                    you've popped the flash. Plus, bring lots of batteries...

                    If you hold the flash with the diffuser above and behind the lens, you
                    should get good coverage except for the nadir. Then, you'd shoot the nadir
                    separately with one properly exposed image, since it will be close by and
                    easy to light.

                    Mark
                    www.pinnacle-vr.com
                    www.northernlight.net
                    www.360cities.net


                    >-----Original Message-----
                    >From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                    >Behalf Of Bjørn K Nilssen
                    >Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 8:06 AM
                    >To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Underground panorama lighting suggestions
                    >anyone?
                    >
                    >On 5 Mar 2009 at 12:51, pedro_silva58 wrote:
                    >
                    >> if you're still looking for a hi power light, and money is not a big
                    >problem, you may
                    >> want to look for a Microfire Warrior K3500R, rated at 3500lumens...
                    >
                    >I started out as a search for a replacement for small tea lights IIRC ;)
                    >
                    >OTOH, where are you going to hide the light sticks then K?
                    >I'm looking forward to see the results. Sounds like a real challenge
                    >shooting a pano from
                    >the middle of a waterfall inside a dark cave witha kit lens (38 shots?). If
                    >you start
                    >moving lights around (light painting) I think you will face big stitching
                    >problems,
                    >unless there are many easily visible features to put control points on.
                    >
                    >Could you show us the ones you did before, with tea lights?
                    >
                    >
                    >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "klroost" <etterz@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> > Thank you for the replies everyone. > I think I am going to try to find
                    >some of the
                    >> caylume lights sticks in an appropriate color and use them to highlight
                    >the structural
                    >> outlines, then just go at it with light painting. There just aren't any
                    >places to hide
                    >> extra light sources such as lanterns. I tried to find that 900lumen
                    >flashlight, but it
                    >> is not imported into the states by the vendor. > thanks again > K
                    >
                    >--
                    >Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                  • klroost
                    This was easy in comparison, the one i am planning on shooting leaves me nowhere to walk or anywhere to place lights. I am thinking of sticking the caylumes
                    Message 9 of 20 , Mar 5, 2009
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                      This was easy in comparison, the one i am planning on shooting leaves me nowhere to walk or anywhere to place lights. I am thinking of sticking the caylumes into spaces between the stones the "tunnel" is made from and covering the side facing me with black electrical tape.
                      I think...
                      I'm not even sure I will be able to stand in the middle of the waterfall, it is very very slippery.

                      here is a preview of what I am trying to shoot a pano in...
                      this was a 15sec exp, lightpainted with a 4watt led...more light would help..allot! This is a natural waterfall, just covered over a long time ago.
                      http://abandorama.com/things1/geosrumorsm.jpg

                      gypsum mine with tealights, lightpainted with a million CP light and the built in flash fired also
                      http://abandorama.com/things1/minepano3.1.mov

                      K

                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bj�rn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On 5 Mar 2009 at 12:51, pedro_silva58 wrote:
                      >
                      > > if you're still looking for a hi power light, and money is not a big problem, you may
                      > > want to look for a Microfire Warrior K3500R, rated at 3500lumens...
                      >
                      > I started out as a search for a replacement for small tea lights IIRC ;)
                      >
                      > OTOH, where are you going to hide the light sticks then K?
                      > I'm looking forward to see the results. Sounds like a real challenge shooting a pano from
                      > the middle of a waterfall inside a dark cave witha kit lens (38 shots?). If you start
                      > moving lights around (light painting) I think you will face big stitching problems,
                      > unless there are many easily visible features to put control points on.
                      >
                      > Could you show us the ones you did before, with tea lights?
                      >
                      >
                      > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "klroost" <etterz@> wrote:
                      >
                      > > > Thank you for the replies everyone. > I think I am going to try to find some of the
                      > > caylume lights sticks in an appropriate color and use them to highlight the structural
                      > > outlines, then just go at it with light painting. There just aren't any places to hide
                      > > extra light sources such as lanterns. I tried to find that 900lumen flashlight, but it
                      > > is not imported into the states by the vendor. > thanks again > K
                      >
                      > --
                      > Bj�rn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                      >
                    • klroost
                      I finally got to shoot this. I tried with the calyume light sticks, I had nowhere near enough. So I went with lightpainting it. I think this is the worlds
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 23, 2009
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                        I finally got to shoot this. I tried with the calyume light sticks, I had
                        nowhere near enough. So I went with lightpainting it. I think this is the worlds
                        first spherical in a drain, I'm not sure if anyone else has shot an underground
                        waterfall.
                        I would like to reshoot this with a few assistants to illuminate the top and
                        bottom.
                        I lightpainted it with a 4watt/2D cell/cree led flashlight, with a walmart white
                        measuring cup over it for a diffuser. The light was very diffuse and even, just
                        not much throw.
                        http://abandorama.com/18/18falls.swf
                        Any thoughts?
                        K





                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "klroost" <etterz@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > This was easy in comparison, the one i am planning on shooting leaves me nowhere to walk or anywhere to place lights. I am thinking of sticking the caylumes into spaces between the stones the "tunnel" is made from and covering the side facing me with black electrical tape.
                        > I think...
                        > I'm not even sure I will be able to stand in the middle of the waterfall, it is very very slippery.
                        >
                        > here is a preview of what I am trying to shoot a pano in...
                        > this was a 15sec exp, lightpainted with a 4watt led...more light would help..allot! This is a natural waterfall, just covered over a long time ago.
                        > http://abandorama.com/things1/geosrumorsm.jpg
                        >
                        > gypsum mine with tealights, lightpainted with a million CP light and the built in flash fired also
                        > http://abandorama.com/things1/minepano3.1.mov
                        >
                        > K
                        >
                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bj�rn K Nilssen <bk@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > On 5 Mar 2009 at 12:51, pedro_silva58 wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > if you're still looking for a hi power light, and money is not a big problem, you may
                        > > > want to look for a Microfire Warrior K3500R, rated at 3500lumens...
                        > >
                        > > I started out as a search for a replacement for small tea lights IIRC ;)
                        > >
                        > > OTOH, where are you going to hide the light sticks then K?
                        > > I'm looking forward to see the results. Sounds like a real challenge shooting a pano from
                        > > the middle of a waterfall inside a dark cave witha kit lens (38 shots?). If you start
                        > > moving lights around (light painting) I think you will face big stitching problems,
                        > > unless there are many easily visible features to put control points on.
                        > >
                        > > Could you show us the ones you did before, with tea lights?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "klroost" <etterz@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > > Thank you for the replies everyone. > I think I am going to try to find some of the
                        > > > caylume lights sticks in an appropriate color and use them to highlight the structural
                        > > > outlines, then just go at it with light painting. There just aren't any places to hide
                        > > > extra light sources such as lanterns. I tried to find that 900lumen flashlight, but it
                        > > > is not imported into the states by the vendor. > thanks again > K
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Bj�rn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                        > >
                        >
                      • Jan Martin
                        I once saw a few series of pictures of sewage systems in the internet. They where taken using very long exposure (must have been like minutes) in total
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 23, 2009
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                          I once saw a few series of pictures of sewage systems in the internet.
                          They where taken using very long exposure (must have been like minutes) in
                          total darkness and illuminated using a torch to shine on things one by one.
                          Looked very good.

                          On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:54 PM, klroost <etterz@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > I finally got to shoot this. I tried with the calyume light sticks, I had
                          > nowhere near enough. So I went with lightpainting it. I think this is the
                          > worlds first spherical in a drain, I'm not sure if anyone else has shot an
                          > underground waterfall.
                          > I would like to reshoot this with a few assistants to illuminate the top
                          > and bottom.
                          > I lightpainted it with a 4watt/2D cell/cree led flashlight, with a walmart
                          > white measuring cup over it for a diffuser. The light was very diffuse and
                          > even, just not much throw.
                          > Any thoughts?
                          > K
                          >
                          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > "klroost" <etterz@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > This was easy in comparison, the one i am planning on shooting leaves me
                          > nowhere to walk or anywhere to place lights. I am thinking of sticking the
                          > caylumes into spaces between the stones the "tunnel" is made from and
                          > covering the side facing me with black electrical tape.
                          > > I think...
                          > > I'm not even sure I will be able to stand in the middle of the waterfall,
                          > it is very very slippery.
                          > >
                          > > here is a preview of what I am trying to shoot a pano in...
                          > > this was a 15sec exp, lightpainted with a 4watt led...more light would
                          > help..allot! This is a natural waterfall, just covered over a long time ago.
                          > > http://abandorama.com/things1/geosrumorsm.jpg
                          > >
                          > > gypsum mine with tealights, lightpainted with a million CP light and the
                          > built in flash fired also
                          > > http://abandorama.com/things1/minepano3.1.mov
                          > >
                          > > K
                          > >
                          > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > Bj�rn K Nilssen <bk@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > On 5 Mar 2009 at 12:51, pedro_silva58 wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > if you're still looking for a hi power light, and money is not a big
                          > problem, you may
                          > > > > want to look for a Microfire Warrior K3500R, rated at 3500lumens...
                          > > >
                          > > > I started out as a search for a replacement for small tea lights IIRC
                          > ;)
                          > > >
                          > > > OTOH, where are you going to hide the light sticks then K?
                          > > > I'm looking forward to see the results. Sounds like a real challenge
                          > shooting a pano from
                          > > > the middle of a waterfall inside a dark cave witha kit lens (38
                          > shots?). If you start
                          > > > moving lights around (light painting) I think you will face big
                          > stitching problems,
                          > > > unless there are many easily visible features to put control points on.
                          > > >
                          > > > Could you show us the ones you did before, with tea lights?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > "klroost" <etterz@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > > Thank you for the replies everyone. > I think I am going to try to
                          > find some of the
                          > > > > caylume lights sticks in an appropriate color and use them to
                          > highlight the structural
                          > > > > outlines, then just go at it with light painting. There just aren't
                          > any places to hide
                          > > > > extra light sources such as lanterns. I tried to find that 900lumen
                          > flashlight, but it
                          > > > > is not imported into the states by the vendor. > thanks again > K
                          > > >
                          > > > --
                          > > > Bj�rn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bernhard Vogl
                          Excellent panorama! I don t think it does need more illumination in the depth - that would take away some of the magic of the image... Best regards Bernhard
                          Message 12 of 20 , Sep 23, 2009
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                            Excellent panorama! I don't think it does need more illumination in the
                            depth - that would take away some of the magic of the image...

                            Best regards
                            Bernhard

                            klroost schrieb:
                            > I finally got to shoot this. I tried with the calyume light sticks, I had
                            > nowhere near enough. So I went with lightpainting it. I think this is the worlds
                            > first spherical in a drain, I'm not sure if anyone else has shot an underground
                            > waterfall.
                            > I would like to reshoot this with a few assistants to illuminate the top and
                            > bottom.
                            > I lightpainted it with a 4watt/2D cell/cree led flashlight, with a walmart white
                            > measuring cup over it for a diffuser. The light was very diffuse and even, just
                            > not much throw.
                            > http://abandorama.com/18/18falls.swf
                            > Any thoughts?
                            > K
                            >
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