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RE: [PanoToolsNG] Code, Clients, Servers, etc.

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  • Keith Martin
    ... This point is worth stressing. Although you should protect yourself, always try to understand how they see things. If you were in their shoes instead,
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 28, 2009
      Sometime around 28/2/09 (at 11:01 -0500) Chris Thomas said:

      >Try to be positive with them.

      This point is worth stressing. Although you should protect yourself,
      always try to understand how they see things. If you were in their
      shoes instead, would it feel like you're being taken for a ride or
      offered a reasonable deal?

      Whatever you choose to do as regards the negotiations (it IS your
      work after all), you'll generally find it goes more smoothly if you
      understand things from their point of view.

      k
    • Ken Warner
      Short answer -- don t do it...
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 28, 2009
        Short answer -- don't do it...

        Blake Michaelson wrote:
        > I'm running into a dilemma where a client would like to host a virtual tour
        > I created for them on their servers - it's a 20 node tour, and a TON of
        > coding in KRPano... I've usually just hosted clients tours on my own server
        > (Amazon S3 server), but they're adamant about wanting it entirely on their
        > domain... I feel a bit vulnerable giving up my code to their web design team
        > and art department (by my code, I mean my horrendous number of XML lines)
        > and my "project" files - obviously it's not just pieces of the pie they're
        > getting, but the whole thing... kind of an open book on a couple years worth
        > of code collecting and... any advice as to how to protect ones self -
        > obfuscated XML perhaps? Legal documents? Just curious - I'd kind of like
        > to not get burned down the road by this one... TIA - Blake.
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
      • Ken Warner
        Or sell them a license for big bucks with a maintenance contract for 3 years and make them sign a Non-Disclosure and Non-Competition agreement. That s the way
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 28, 2009
          Or sell them a license for big bucks with a maintenance contract
          for 3 years and make them sign a Non-Disclosure and Non-Competition
          agreement. That's the way the big guys do it...

          Keith Martin wrote:
          > Sometime around 28/2/09 (at 11:01 -0500) Chris Thomas said:
          >
          >
          >>Try to be positive with them.
          >
          >
          > This point is worth stressing. Although you should protect yourself,
          > always try to understand how they see things. If you were in their
          > shoes instead, would it feel like you're being taken for a ride or
          > offered a reasonable deal?
          >
          > Whatever you choose to do as regards the negotiations (it IS your
          > work after all), you'll generally find it goes more smoothly if you
          > understand things from their point of view.
          >
          > k
          >
        • Bjørn K Nilssen
          ... What is protecting your XML files from peeking at them when they are on your own server? I mostly use Pure Player Java/Flash, and there is usually no
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 28, 2009
            On 28 Feb 2009 at 2:09, Blake Michaelson wrote:

            > I'm running into a dilemma where a client would like to host a virtual tour
            > I created for them on their servers - it's a 20 node tour, and a TON of
            > coding in KRPano... I've usually just hosted clients tours on my own server
            > (Amazon S3 server), but they're adamant about wanting it entirely on their
            > domain... I feel a bit vulnerable giving up my code to their web design team
            > and art department (by my code, I mean my horrendous number of XML lines)
            > and my "project" files - obviously it's not just pieces of the pie they're
            > getting, but the whole thing... kind of an open book on a couple years worth
            > of code collecting and... any advice as to how to protect ones self -
            > obfuscated XML perhaps? Legal documents? Just curious - I'd kind of like
            > to not get burned down the road by this one... TIA - Blake.

            What is protecting your XML files from peeking at them when they are on your own server?
            I mostly use Pure Player Java/Flash, and there is usually no problem looking at the code
            inside XML files, js files or html.
            But KRpano may do it differently?

            OTOH, if you really want to protect your code PurePlayer comes with full
            protection/encryption that may be locked to only be run on a specific domain, for a given
            time period etc. This feature seems to be lacking with other players?

            --
            Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
          • Peter Nyfeler
            ... No, Pano2VR has this also.... Cheers Peter
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 28, 2009
              Bjørn K Nilssen schrieb:
              >
              > This feature seems to be lacking with other players?
              >
              >
              No, Pano2VR has this also....

              Cheers

              Peter
            • Blake Michaelson
              Thanks for all your replies - certainly appreciate it! The concern I have is spending a whole lot of time on XML coding (and making panos) - turning a project
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 28, 2009
                Thanks for all your replies - certainly appreciate it!

                The concern I have is spending a whole lot of time on XML coding (and making
                panos) - turning a project over to a client - they see "just how simple it
                is" and determine that they no longer need your services...

                A few hours ago Klaus from KRPano released a new tool (and whole new beta)
                that allows you to embed your primary XML into the swf - fortuitous timing
                for me!



                On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Peter Nyfeler <peter.nyfeler@...>wrote:

                > Bjørn K Nilssen schrieb:
                >
                > >
                > > This feature seems to be lacking with other players?
                > >
                > >
                > No, Pano2VR has this also....
                >
                > Cheers
                >
                > Peter
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Keith Martin
                ... It is a rare client who would look at some complex XML and decide that it would be simple to do it themselves. :-) But fortuitous timing indeed. k
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 28, 2009
                  Sometime around 28/2/09 (at 10:23 -0800) Blake Michaelson said:

                  >A few hours ago Klaus from KRPano released a new tool (and whole new beta)
                  >that allows you to embed your primary XML into the swf

                  It is a rare client who would look at some complex XML and decide
                  that it would be simple to do it themselves. :-) But fortuitous
                  timing indeed.

                  k
                • Nicolas Burtey
                  ... What is so important for not giving your xml ? You have special plugin developped by your own ? And krpano for flash only exist since last summer ...
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 2, 2009
                    > kind of an open book on a couple years worth of code collecting and...

                    What is so important for not giving your xml ? You have special plugin
                    developped by your own ?

                    And krpano for flash only exist since last summer ...

                    Regards,

                    Nicolas B
                    http://www.nicolasburtey.net
                  • Hans Nyberg
                    ... We are not talking about a standard one page panorama with default settings for the viewer. If you have developed a Virtual Tour with maps, hotspots,
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 2, 2009
                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Nicolas Burtey" <nburtey@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > kind of an open book on a couple years worth of code collecting and...
                      >
                      > What is so important for not giving your xml ? You have special plugin
                      > developped by your own ?
                      >
                      > And krpano for flash only exist since last summer ...
                      >

                      We are not talking about a standard one page panorama with default settings for the
                      viewer.

                      If you have developed a Virtual Tour with maps, hotspots, popups special transitions, etc
                      than you do not just want the client to be able to reuse your work perhaps by taking the
                      panos himself and just replace the images.

                      Your XML is a template you can reuse for other clients with just a few alterations and
                      different colors on toolbars and other elements in it.

                      Its your work and it is copyrighted as any other work.

                      Hans
                    • aiwetir
                      i haven t read this whole discussion but as i see it you only have a few options. first sell it to them for what you would charge as a web developer second
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 2, 2009
                        i haven't read this whole discussion but as i see it you only have a
                        few options.

                        first sell it to them for what you would charge as a web developer
                        second don't give it to them at all, you are 'just the photographer'
                        their own web developer that they pay for that job can figure it out.
                        give them some self contained domain specific swf's
                        third, just don't worry about it and give it away, i'm sure the web
                        dev can rip it all off if they want.

                        my 2 cents.
                        mmm
                      • Sacha Griffin
                        Exactly, It s the same as the photography, which they CAN easily reuse and resell and rebrand as their own against normal wishes. Normally, you sell a
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 3, 2009
                          Exactly,

                          It's the same as the photography, which they CAN easily reuse and resell and
                          rebrand as their own against normal wishes.

                          Normally, you sell a copyright and give your babies away, and rely on the
                          justice system so that everyone plays by the rules.



                          1. Someone clever enough to steal your code, probably isn't going to
                          want it. J

                          2. There's very little you can do to prevent code theft, no matter
                          what. Even xml embedded in a swf, is pretty trivial to extract.



                          So I do three things.



                          1. Rely on the justice system.

                          2. Make their purchase of copyrights clear

                          3. Keep tabs on the client for un-authorized reuse. You can do this
                          via call home scripts, even something as simple as google analytics in html.



                          I believe you can also setup flash based GA reporting.



                          Copyright, is essentially designed exactly for this reason. Books,
                          photographs, audio etc.

                          It's always been very easy to reduplicate original work and re-sell/re-use
                          it. So if you are lucky enough to live in the US and sell to US clients, you
                          have some security to rely on it.



                          If your client is in germany, ie ZKM, you might as well bang your head
                          against a wall.





                          Sacha Griffin

                          Southern Digital Solutions LLC

                          http://www.southern-digital.com

                          http://www.seeit360.net

                          GMAIL IM: sachagriffin007@...

                          404-551-4275







                          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Hans Nyberg
                          Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:51 AM
                          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Code, Clients, Servers, etc.



                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                          "Nicolas Burtey" <nburtey@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > kind of an open book on a couple years worth of code collecting and...
                          >
                          > What is so important for not giving your xml ? You have special plugin
                          > developped by your own ?
                          >
                          > And krpano for flash only exist since last summer ...
                          >

                          We are not talking about a standard one page panorama with default settings
                          for the
                          viewer.

                          If you have developed a Virtual Tour with maps, hotspots, popups special
                          transitions, etc
                          than you do not just want the client to be able to reuse your work perhaps
                          by taking the
                          panos himself and just replace the images.

                          Your XML is a template you can reuse for other clients with just a few
                          alterations and
                          different colors on toolbars and other elements in it.

                          Its your work and it is copyrighted as any other work.

                          Hans





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Fabio Bustamante
                          Blake, I don t know much about KRPano but maybe there s a solution. I use FPP and it has an option of embedding the XML content within the html file that
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 3, 2009
                            Blake,

                            I don't know much about KRPano but maybe there's a solution.

                            I use FPP and it has an option of embedding the XML content within the
                            html file that publishes the panorama, leaving you with no external XML
                            file. The great advantage is that you can encrypt the html code with
                            encryption software and - believe me - it becomes absolutely unreadable.
                            (besides it'll give extra control options such as allowing it to only
                            run just in specific domains)

                            Take a look at HTML Guardian's page. Its a pretty powerful tool:

                            http://www.protware.com/

                            Regards,

                            Fabio.

                            Blake Michaelson wrote:
                            > I'm running into a dilemma where a client would like to host a virtual tour
                            > I created for them on their servers - it's a 20 node tour, and a TON of
                            > coding in KRPano... I've usually just hosted clients tours on my own server
                            > (Amazon S3 server), but they're adamant about wanting it entirely on their
                            > domain... I feel a bit vulnerable giving up my code to their web design team
                            > and art department (by my code, I mean my horrendous number of XML lines)
                            > and my "project" files - obviously it's not just pieces of the pie they're
                            > getting, but the whole thing... kind of an open book on a couple years worth
                            > of code collecting and... any advice as to how to protect ones self -
                            > obfuscated XML perhaps? Legal documents? Just curious - I'd kind of like
                            > to not get burned down the road by this one... TIA - Blake.
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            >
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