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Stereo lens with almost coincident No Parallax Points

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  • panovrx
    Loreo make a bunch of cheap plastic lenses including this one http://www.loreo.com/pages/products/loreo_3dcap_photo.html for shooting stereo. I bought one to
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 22, 2009
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      Loreo make a bunch of cheap plastic lenses including this one
      http://www.loreo.com/pages/products/loreo_3dcap_photo.html for
      shooting stereo. I bought one to shoot stereo videos with my Canon 5d
      MkII and it works well for that. It has two tiny (glass) lenses at
      the back close together and then a series of mirrors to widen the
      viewpoint of each lens. It makes two pictures side by side.
      Horizontal coverage for each is about 22 degrees. Apertures are f11
      and f22. There is manual focus. Flare is a problem but controllable
      with a custom lens hood and the lenses are quite sharp. So far, so
      expected.

      But it has some very strange features. For one thing, the lens is not
      symmetric left/right. One lens has two more reflecting surfaces in
      its path than the other. But what really struck me when I tried to
      find where the NPP points for each lens was, was that the NPPs were
      right back from the lens, about 1 cm in front of the tripod socket
      and in the same place, as far as I can tell, for each lens! This is
      odd because when you look through the lens it is clear each side of
      the frame is a view from quite separate points in space -- about 10cm
      apart.

      So of course this means you can stitch stereo panoramas with this
      lens in the exactly the same way you could stitch any panorama.
      Including rows if you want more vertical coverage. Plus you have the
      advantage of totally simultaneous capture for each LR view. Stitching
      was perfect on both sides in the first tests I did with a scene from
      1m to infinity with shots every 10 degrees. It is a pity the coverage
      is so narrow as you would need lots of shots for full coverage. I
      will build a multirow rig for it and test the spherical stitching
      with it shortly.

      This NPP behavior reminds me of the old Enroute First Person Video
      solution -- the only 360 array solution they say that has the
      component cameras viewing the scene from the same NPP. It uses
      mirrors too. There is a picture of it here.
      http://www.washedashore.com/projects/surround/

      Peter Murphy
    • Philipp B. Koch
      Hello Peter, this sounds really interesting, thanks for sharing! I d be curious to see some shots made with this lens to evaluate quality. Could you possibly
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 23, 2009
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        Hello Peter,

        this sounds really interesting, thanks for sharing! I'd be curious to
        see some shots made with this lens to evaluate quality.
        Could you possibly put some single snapshot online and tell us what
        camera you were using? I'd be happy if you have a chance to do so.
        Thanks again,

        Philipp Koch


        panovrx schrieb:
        > Loreo make a bunch of cheap plastic lenses including this one
        > http://www.loreo.com/pages/products/loreo_3dcap_photo.html for
        > shooting stereo. I bought one to shoot stereo videos with my Canon 5d
        > MkII and it works well for that. It has two tiny (glass) lenses at
        > the back close together and then a series of mirrors to widen the
        > viewpoint of each lens. It makes two pictures side by side.
        > Horizontal coverage for each is about 22 degrees. Apertures are f11
        > and f22. There is manual focus. Flare is a problem but controllable
        > with a custom lens hood and the lenses are quite sharp. So far, so
        > expected.
        >
        > But it has some very strange features. For one thing, the lens is not
        > symmetric left/right. One lens has two more reflecting surfaces in
        > its path than the other. But what really struck me when I tried to
        > find where the NPP points for each lens was, was that the NPPs were
        > right back from the lens, about 1 cm in front of the tripod socket
        > and in the same place, as far as I can tell, for each lens! This is
        > odd because when you look through the lens it is clear each side of
        > the frame is a view from quite separate points in space -- about 10cm
        > apart.
        >
        > So of course this means you can stitch stereo panoramas with this
        > lens in the exactly the same way you could stitch any panorama.
        > Including rows if you want more vertical coverage. Plus you have the
        > advantage of totally simultaneous capture for each LR view. Stitching
        > was perfect on both sides in the first tests I did with a scene from
        > 1m to infinity with shots every 10 degrees. It is a pity the coverage
        > is so narrow as you would need lots of shots for full coverage. I
        > will build a multirow rig for it and test the spherical stitching
        > with it shortly.
        >
        > This NPP behavior reminds me of the old Enroute First Person Video
        > solution -- the only 360 array solution they say that has the
        > component cameras viewing the scene from the same NPP. It uses
        > mirrors too. There is a picture of it here.
        > http://www.washedashore.com/projects/surround/
        >
        > Peter Murphy
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
      • panovrx
        ... 5d here is a reduced halfframe shot from the Loreo3d lens on a 5Dmkii http://www.mediavr.com/archsample.jpg here is a 230 degree equi as anaglyph
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 23, 2009
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          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Philipp B. Koch" <pk@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Peter,
          >
          > this sounds really interesting, thanks for sharing! I'd be curious to
          > see some shots made with this lens to evaluate quality.
          > Could you possibly put some single snapshot online and tell us what
          > camera you were using? I'd be happy if you have a chance to do so.
          > Thanks again,
          >
          > Philipp Koch
          >
          >
          > panovrx schrieb:
          > > Loreo make a bunch of cheap plastic lenses including this one
          > > http://www.loreo.com/pages/products/loreo_3dcap_photo.html for
          > > shooting stereo. I bought one to shoot stereo videos with my Canon
          5d

          here is a reduced halfframe shot from the Loreo3d lens on a 5Dmkii
          http://www.mediavr.com/archsample.jpg

          here is a 230 degree equi as anaglyph
          http://www.mediavr.com/archanaglyph1.jpg

          I tried a multirow without much success -- I'd forgotten how the auto
          point finder in PTGui has to struggle when there are lots of narrow
          angle views -- it is a pity -- it would be nice to find a compact
          solution for action stereo panorama capture

          Peter
        • Philipp B. Koch
          ... Thank you, Peter. Intersting stuff :-) Well, the quality look quite reasonably. I wish you luck with your further experiments on this topic. Philipp
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 23, 2009
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            panovrx schrieb:
            > here is a reduced halfframe shot from the Loreo3d lens on a 5Dmkii
            > http://www.mediavr.com/archsample.jpg
            >
            > here is a 230 degree equi as anaglyph
            > http://www.mediavr.com/archanaglyph1.jpg
            >
            > I tried a multirow without much success -- I'd forgotten how the auto
            > point finder in PTGui has to struggle when there are lots of narrow
            > angle views -- it is a pity -- it would be nice to find a compact
            > solution for action stereo panorama capture
            >
            > Peter
            Thank you, Peter. Intersting stuff :-) Well, the quality look quite
            reasonably. I wish you luck with your further experiments on this topic.

            Philipp
          • Roger D. Williams
            Peter, I see you use this with a 5D MkII, which is full frame. So the lens(es) provide(s) the field of view of a 38mm lens on a full-frame camera, right? I
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 23, 2009
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              Peter, I see you use this with a 5D MkII, which is full frame. So
              the lens(es) provide(s) the field of view of a 38mm lens on a
              full-frame camera, right? I could live with that...

              I have a full-frame SLR that uses film, and I also have an ancient
              half-frame side-by-side stereo viewer made by Asahi. I wonder if I
              could view stereo slides taken with this lens through it... THe
              only problem is whether there is a lens cap for my SLR, which
              uses M42 lenses...

              Do you have any idea? The principle appears to be the same, two
              half-frame images side by side on a standard 35mm frame.

              Roger W.


              On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:33:55 +0900, panovrx <mediavr@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Philipp B. Koch" <pk@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> Hello Peter,
              >>
              >> this sounds really interesting, thanks for sharing! I'd be curious to
              >> see some shots made with this lens to evaluate quality.
              >> Could you possibly put some single snapshot online and tell us what
              >> camera you were using? I'd be happy if you have a chance to do so.
              >> Thanks again,
              >>
              >> Philipp Koch
              >>
              >>
              >> panovrx schrieb:
              >> > Loreo make a bunch of cheap plastic lenses including this one
              >> > http://www.loreo.com/pages/products/loreo_3dcap_photo.html for
              >> > shooting stereo. I bought one to shoot stereo videos with my Canon
              > 5d
              >
              > here is a reduced halfframe shot from the Loreo3d lens on a 5Dmkii
              > http://www.mediavr.com/archsample.jpg
              >
              > here is a 230 degree equi as anaglyph
              > http://www.mediavr.com/archanaglyph1.jpg
              >
              > I tried a multirow without much success -- I'd forgotten how the auto
              > point finder in PTGui has to struggle when there are lots of narrow
              > angle views -- it is a pity -- it would be nice to find a compact
              > solution for action stereo panorama capture
              >
              > Peter
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >



              --
              Work: www.adex-japan.com
            • panovrx
              ... But you are getting two frames on the one full frame camera, so the horizontal view is half that of a normal 38mm. Yes the Pentax stereo viewer would work
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 24, 2009
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                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Peter, I see you use this with a 5D MkII, which is full frame. So
                > the lens(es) provide(s) the field of view of a 38mm lens on a
                > full-frame camera, right? I could live with that...
                >
                > I have a full-frame SLR that uses film, and I also have an ancient
                > half-frame side-by-side stereo viewer made by Asahi. I wonder if I
                > could view stereo slides taken with this lens through it... THe
                > only problem is whether there is a lens cap for my SLR, which
                > uses M42 lenses...
                >
                > Do you have any idea? The principle appears to be the same, two
                > half-frame images side by side on a standard 35mm frame.
                >
                > Roger W.
                >
                >

                But you are getting two frames on the one full frame camera, so the
                horizontal view is half that of a normal 38mm. Yes the Pentax stereo
                viewer would work with slides from this lens on a film camera I think.
                I've not tried stitching panoramas from pictures made with the Pentax
                stereo lens attachment.
                The Loreo lens is good for stereo videos
                see www.mediavr.com/3d
                and stereo portrait stills but not much chop for stereo panoramas Ive
                concluded (because of its narrowness of view) ... but its low
                parallax characteristics are intriguing I think.

                Re viewing stereo panoramic stills ... as prints or on a screen ...
                over/under viewers like the Berezin ones
                http://www.berezin.com/3D/ViewMagic.htm
                are amazingly effective. I saw beautiful prints of stereo panoramic
                street crowd scenes once (taken with a Stereo VR Roundshot I think)
                with this viewer.

                Peter Murphy


                > On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:33:55 +0900, panovrx <mediavr@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Philipp B. Koch" <pk@> wrote:
                > >>
                > >> Hello Peter,
                > >>
                > >> this sounds really interesting, thanks for sharing! I'd be
                curious to
                > >> see some shots made with this lens to evaluate quality.
                > >> Could you possibly put some single snapshot online and tell us
                what
                > >> camera you were using? I'd be happy if you have a chance to do
                so.
                > >> Thanks again,
                > >>
                > >> Philipp Koch
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> panovrx schrieb:
                > >> > Loreo make a bunch of cheap plastic lenses including this one
                > >> > http://www.loreo.com/pages/products/loreo_3dcap_photo.html for
                > >> > shooting stereo. I bought one to shoot stereo videos with my
                Canon
                > > 5d
                > >
                > > here is a reduced halfframe shot from the Loreo3d lens on a 5Dmkii
                > > http://www.mediavr.com/archsample.jpg
                > >
                > > here is a 230 degree equi as anaglyph
                > > http://www.mediavr.com/archanaglyph1.jpg
                > >
                > > I tried a multirow without much success -- I'd forgotten how the
                auto
                > > point finder in PTGui has to struggle when there are lots of
                narrow
                > > angle views -- it is a pity -- it would be nice to find a compact
                > > solution for action stereo panorama capture
                > >
                > > Peter
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Work: www.adex-japan.com
                >
              • Roger D. Williams
                ... Yes, but the Asahi mirror adaptor could only be used with 50mm lenses, and I found that a bit too narrow, so 38mm sounded that much better to me. ... Well,
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 24, 2009
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                  On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:47:13 +0900, panovrx <mediavr@...> wrote:

                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Peter, I see you use this with a 5D MkII, which is full frame. So
                  >> the lens(es) provide(s) the field of view of a 38mm lens on a
                  >> full-frame camera, right? I could live with that...
                  >>
                  >> I have a full-frame SLR that uses film, and I also have an ancient
                  >> half-frame side-by-side stereo viewer made by Asahi. I wonder if I
                  >> could view stereo slides taken with this lens through it... THe
                  >> only problem is whether there is a lens cap for my SLR, which
                  >> uses M42 lenses...
                  >>
                  >> Do you have any idea? The principle appears to be the same, two
                  >> half-frame images side by side on a standard 35mm frame.
                  >>
                  >> Roger W.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  > But you are getting two frames on the one full frame camera, so the
                  > horizontal view is half that of a normal 38mm. Yes the Pentax stereo
                  > viewer would work with slides from this lens on a film camera I think.
                  > I've not tried stitching panoramas from pictures made with the Pentax
                  > stereo lens attachment.

                  Yes, but the Asahi mirror adaptor could only be used with 50mm lenses,
                  and I found that a bit too narrow, so 38mm sounded that much better
                  to me.

                  > The Loreo lens is good for stereo videos
                  > see www.mediavr.com/3d
                  > and stereo portrait stills but not much chop for stereo panoramas Ive
                  > concluded (because of its narrowness of view) ... but its low
                  > parallax characteristics are intriguing I think.

                  Well, I'm not QUITE as dedicated to 360-degree panoramas as some,
                  having started off with a Widelux swing lens that gave me 140
                  degrees, and a Fuji X-1 that didn't even give that. I just like
                  wide angle coverage, and stitching two or three shots to get a
                  reasonable horizontal coverage would be fine with me.

                  > Re viewing stereo panoramic stills ... as prints or on a screen ...
                  > over/under viewers like the Berezin ones
                  > http://www.berezin.com/3D/ViewMagic.htm
                  > are amazingly effective. I saw beautiful prints of stereo panoramic
                  > street crowd scenes once (taken with a Stereo VR Roundshot I think)
                  > with this viewer.

                  I have an over/under viewer and like you I find this a great way to
                  view stereo prints or screen shots. But NOTHING can beat a film
                  transparency... which is why I usually shoot with two cameras on a
                  hand-held bar. Both have matching 35mm lenses, which is about ideal
                  for good stereo effect. I've never thought of stitching them, though.
                  Must try that one day...

                  Incidentally, over/under viewers work well with panorama prints. You
                  just have to "scan" by sliding the print(s) through the field of
                  view. Sort of manual VR. <grin>

                  Roger W.

                  --
                  Work: www.adex-japan.com
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