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Re: camera spinner mk3

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  • panovrx
    I have been doing some more tests with my self-built motorized pano heads. I tried my Sigma 15mm on it and found it needed much faster speeds to get sharp
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 17, 2006
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      I have been doing some more tests with my self-built motorized pano
      heads. I tried my Sigma 15mm on it and found it needed much faster
      speeds to get sharp pictures in continuous rotation -- like 1/4000th -
      - compared with 1/2000th for the 10.5mm Nikkor at a 1.3 sec rotation
      rate. Which makes that lens pretty impractical for spinning capture
      except for the brightest days.

      Then I built some timer circuits (from kits) -- so the camera spinner
      will take pictures in robotic mode -- (for a lion's cage scenario I
      am working on :-)). So now it can spin, stop, wait a certain delay to
      steady, take a picture, spin etc etc ... for a certain number of
      shots.

      Then I tried reducing the rotation rate in continuous mode to see if
      I could eliminate motion blur altogether at a reasonable shutter
      speed. With a 2.5 sec rotation -- which is still plenty fast enough
      for lots of action scenes -- I get extremely sharp pictures now at
      1/2500th with a 10.5mm and passable ones at 1/1600th. So I am
      starting to standardize on 1/2000th at a 2.5sec rotation with the
      10.5mm (at f4 or f2.8) for most extreme action. (This means stitching
      6 or 7 shots on a 5D.)
      Here is one I shot yesterday like that ... at a dance party ..
      http://www.mediavr.com/earthdance1.htm
      This was stitched 100% automatically with Ptgui and Smartblend except
      for fixing the nadir -- and there was heaps of subject movement.

      (Does anyone know what the Hindi(?) writing of the tattoo on the
      guy's back says? --- also does anyone one know how to stop
      intermittent playback on Pleinpot converted audio? - it mostly seems
      to happen when the panorama is being navigated.)

      Peter Murphy
      http://www.mediavr.com/blog



      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
      >
      > Here is another configuration of my camera spinner gadget
      > http://www.mediavr.com/cameraspinner3.jpg
      >
      > this has the advantage over previous versions of having a smaller
      nadir
      > visual profile -- also looks less visually conspicuous
      >
      > inside the tube are 3AA batteries and a 9V battery and relay for
      the
      > Zap-shot radio release --- which plugs in at the bottom. Or I can
      plug
      > in a mechanical switch. By pulling out the top I can change
      batteries
      > quickly
      >
      > This is shot with the camera in a no-parallax position. Which means
      it
      > is off-centre in terms of centre of gravity. So it wobbles a bit as
      it
      > spins. But I have decided that is not so bad as having parallax
      issues -
      > I just need to build up my camera-holding muscles some :-)
      >
      > Here is a pano I did with it yesterday -- 10.5mm on 5D -- 4 shots
      mainly
      > http://www.mediavr.com/citytosurf2006.htm at 3fps
      > 2500th of a second at f4 approx at 320ASA
      > these direct sun/crowd shots need careful shadow watching -- so
      that
      > you arent yourself shadowing some unretouchable area or standing on
      > someone's shadow
      >
      > Peter Murphy
      > http://www.mediavr.com/blog
      >
    • Juergen Schrader
      Great work, as always, Peter. Thanks for sharing. Your results are very encouraging. If I understand it right, you just let the camera spin and shoot in
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 18, 2006
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        Great work, as always, Peter. Thanks for sharing.

        Your results are very encouraging. If I understand it right, you just
        let the camera spin and shoot in continuous mode. Depending on the
        rotation speed you get more or less shots per round.

        I wish I could find some time to adopt the concept. The most
        challenging part would be to find a solution to move the camera
        (fast) but stop at defined angles to allow shooting with slow shutter
        speeds.

        Hm, hm ....

        Cheers
        Jürgen


        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have been doing some more tests with my self-built motorized pano
        > heads. I tried my Sigma 15mm on it and found it needed much faster
        > speeds to get sharp pictures in continuous rotation -- like 1/
        4000th -
        > - compared with 1/2000th for the 10.5mm Nikkor at a 1.3 sec
        rotation
        > rate. Which makes that lens pretty impractical for spinning capture
        > except for the brightest days.
        >
        > Then I built some timer circuits (from kits) -- so the camera
        spinner
        > will take pictures in robotic mode -- (for a lion's cage scenario I
        > am working on :-)). So now it can spin, stop, wait a certain delay
        to
        > steady, take a picture, spin etc etc ... for a certain number of
        > shots.
        >
        > Then I tried reducing the rotation rate in continuous mode to see
        if
        > I could eliminate motion blur altogether at a reasonable shutter
        > speed. With a 2.5 sec rotation -- which is still plenty fast enough
        > for lots of action scenes -- I get extremely sharp pictures now at
        > 1/2500th with a 10.5mm and passable ones at 1/1600th. So I am
        > starting to standardize on 1/2000th at a 2.5sec rotation with the
        > 10.5mm (at f4 or f2.8) for most extreme action. (This means
        stitching
        > 6 or 7 shots on a 5D.)
        > Here is one I shot yesterday like that ... at a dance party ..
        > http://www.mediavr.com/earthdance1.htm
        > This was stitched 100% automatically with Ptgui and Smartblend
        except
        > for fixing the nadir -- and there was heaps of subject movement.
        >
        > (Does anyone know what the Hindi(?) writing of the tattoo on the
        > guy's back says? --- also does anyone one know how to stop
        > intermittent playback on Pleinpot converted audio? - it mostly
        seems
        > to happen when the panorama is being navigated.)
        >
        > Peter Murphy
        > http://www.mediavr.com/blog
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Here is another configuration of my camera spinner gadget
        > > http://www.mediavr.com/cameraspinner3.jpg
        > >
        > > this has the advantage over previous versions of having a smaller
        > nadir
        > > visual profile -- also looks less visually conspicuous
        > >
        > > inside the tube are 3AA batteries and a 9V battery and relay for
        > the
        > > Zap-shot radio release --- which plugs in at the bottom. Or I can
        > plug
        > > in a mechanical switch. By pulling out the top I can change
        > batteries
        > > quickly
        > >
        > > This is shot with the camera in a no-parallax position. Which
        means
        > it
        > > is off-centre in terms of centre of gravity. So it wobbles a bit
        as
        > it
        > > spins. But I have decided that is not so bad as having parallax
        > issues -
        > > I just need to build up my camera-holding muscles some :-)
        > >
        > > Here is a pano I did with it yesterday -- 10.5mm on 5D -- 4 shots
        > mainly
        > > http://www.mediavr.com/citytosurf2006.htm at 3fps
        > > 2500th of a second at f4 approx at 320ASA
        > > these direct sun/crowd shots need careful shadow watching -- so
        > that
        > > you arent yourself shadowing some unretouchable area or standing
        on
        > > someone's shadow
        > >
        > > Peter Murphy
        > > http://www.mediavr.com/blog
        > >
        >
      • Bjørn K Nilssen
        ... Take a look at http://www.gentles.ltd.uk/gent360/options.htm It rotates 30 degrees, wait 5-10sec while it take a shot (IR), and continues to rotate 30
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 18, 2006
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          On 18 Sep 2006 at 7:45, Juergen Schrader wrote:

          > Great work, as always, Peter. Thanks for sharing.
          >
          > Your results are very encouraging. If I understand it right, you just
          > let the camera spin and shoot in continuous mode. Depending on the
          > rotation speed you get more or less shots per round.
          >
          > I wish I could find some time to adopt the concept. The most
          > challenging part would be to find a solution to move the camera
          > (fast) but stop at defined angles to allow shooting with slow shutter
          > speeds.

          Take a look at http://www.gentles.ltd.uk/gent360/options.htm
          It rotates 30 degrees, wait 5-10sec while it take a shot (IR), and continues to rotate 30
          degrees, shoot, rotate, shoot. It works with a modified RC servo motor though, but they
          can be bought quite cheap (€15 - geared or direct) from a shop like
          http://www.kapshop.com/ , which is where I bought my GentLED products from.

          I often use their Auto shutter with a pole mounted Olympus C7070 or C5060, shoot once
          every 5 sec, rotate the pole manually, shoot, rotate. Works very well, especially with
          the video-out (live preview) connected to a pair of video glasses (or LCD screen) on the
          ground. For pure pano/fisheye shooting the live preview isn't a must, but as I shoot a
          lot with normal wide angle lenses I wouldn't be without the live preview option. I've
          never understood why you dSLR guys don't miss the live preview...
          OTOH I would never had been able to shoot with my cameras at 1/2000 sec, no matter how
          bright the light was..--
          bk@... // Bjørn Kåre Nilssen http://bknilssen.no/
          Kristiansand, Norway
        • panovrx
          re shooting with a motorized head .. ... yes that s right -- the camera will normally be in continuous rotation with this approach -- so a 3 sec rotation means
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 18, 2006
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            re shooting with a motorized head ..

            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Juergen Schrader" <panorama@...>
            wrote:

            > If I understand it right, you just
            > let the camera spin and shoot in continuous mode. Depending on the
            > rotation speed you get more or less shots per round.
            >
            > I wish I could find some time to adopt the concept. The most
            > challenging part would be to find a solution to move the camera
            > (fast) but stop at defined angles to allow shooting with slow shutter

            yes that's right -- the camera will normally be in continuous rotation
            with this approach -- so a 3 sec rotation means 9 shots for a 360 on a
            3 fps camera for instance

            the faster the spin the more scene action freezing potential but the
            higher the shutter speed you have to use

            with an intermittent .. rotate, stop, shoot, rotate, stop, shoot ..
            approach a big issue with doing this quickly is the momentum of the
            camera assembly which will almost certainly be rotating with its centre
            of gravity off-centre if it is rotating in a no-parallax fashion

            so it will jerk as it stops and starts

            there is maybe something to be said even Ive been thinking for
            motorizing a whole pole/monopod at its base - which would be one
            rather drastic way of centring the mass of the assembly over the base

            the earlier dance party one btw
            http://www.mediavr.com/earthdance1.htm
            was shot at 320ISO -- with good color

            here is one later when it was darker where I had to use 800ISO where
            the color quality suffers a bit -- but it shows an example
            of eye-level motorized continuous capture -- here I am kneeling on the
            ground holding the camera directly over my head (on the spinner
            gadget) .. so it ends up at eyelevel ...
            http://www.mediavr.com/mekanarky.htm

            Peter Murphy
            http://www.mediavr.com/blog
          • panovrx
            or another 2sec spinning sequence from the weekend http://www.mediavr.com/bike1.htm ...this is a bright sunshine example ... which permits an exposure of
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 18, 2006
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              or another 2sec spinning sequence from the weekend
              http://www.mediavr.com/bike1.htm

              ...this is a bright sunshine example ...

              which permits an exposure of 1/2500th at f4 at 250ISO
              (6 shots in 2.4 sec)
              .. at f4 the DOF is important ... here focus is set a little
              close to the camera .. at 2m maybe when it should have been
              at 4m probably

              Peter Murphy
              http://www.mediavr.com/blog
            • panovrx
              I found a better motor for this kind of thing --- the one I was using before was one I got at my local electronics store -- for robotics etc -- a DC gearhead
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 27, 2007
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                I found a better motor for this kind of thing --- the one I was using
                before was one I got at my local electronics store -- for robotics
                etc -- a DC gearhead motor.

                This works ok but it is less than optimal in that the axle is not
                concentric with the motor -- so the nadir profile is larger than in
                needs to be in some directions.

                What is needed is an "epicyclic" gearhead motor. Like this
                http://www.rs-components.com.au/1/443716656-EPIC-GEARED-MOTOR-
                1001.html
                which has a concentric axis.
                I bought this one and it has lots of torque too, at convenient
                voltages.

                Peter

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
                >
                > Here is another configuration of my camera spinner gadget
                > http://www.mediavr.com/cameraspinner3.jpg
                >
                > this has the advantage over previous versions of having a smaller
                nadir
                > visual profile -- also looks less visually conspicuous
                >
                > inside the tube are 3AA batteries and a 9V battery and relay for
                the
                > Zap-shot radio release --- which plugs in at the bottom. Or I can
                plug
                > in a mechanical switch. By pulling out the top I can change
                batteries
                > quickly
                >
                > This is shot with the camera in a no-parallax position. Which means
                it
                > is off-centre in terms of centre of gravity. So it wobbles a bit as
                it
                > spins. But I have decided that is not so bad as having parallax
                issues -
                > I just need to build up my camera-holding muscles some :-)
                >
                > Here is a pano I did with it yesterday -- 10.5mm on 5D -- 4 shots
                mainly
                > http://www.mediavr.com/citytosurf2006.htm at 3fps
                > 2500th of a second at f4 approx at 320ASA
                > these direct sun/crowd shots need careful shadow watching -- so
                that
                > you arent yourself shadowing some unretouchable area or standing on
                > someone's shadow
                >
                > Peter Murphy
                > http://www.mediavr.com/blog
                >
              • Martin Hrdlicka
                ... Hello Peter, which version have you bought ? http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0306/0900766b80306517.pdf I found the reseller here in Czech
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 28, 2007
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                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I found a better motor for this kind of thing --- the one I was using
                  > before was one I got at my local electronics store -- for robotics
                  > etc -- a DC gearhead motor.
                  >
                  > This works ok but it is less than optimal in that the axle is not
                  > concentric with the motor -- so the nadir profile is larger than in
                  > needs to be in some directions.
                  >
                  > What is needed is an "epicyclic" gearhead motor. Like this
                  > http://www.rs-components.com.au/1/443716656-EPIC-GEARED-MOTOR-
                  > 1001.html
                  > which has a concentric axis.
                  > I bought this one and it has lots of torque too, at convenient
                  > voltages.
                  >
                  > Peter
                  >

                  Hello Peter,
                  which version have you bought ?
                  http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0306/0900766b80306517.pdf
                  I found the reseller here in Czech Republic.
                  I think about R.P.M and like to know what do you prefer.
                  Thank You

                  Martin
                • panovrx
                  ... asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0306/0900766b80306517.pdf ... it is not listed in that pdf I think but it is very like the one you see by searching
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 28, 2007
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                    "Martin Hrdlicka" wrote:

                    > Hello Peter,
                    > which version have you bought ?
                    > http://docs-
                    asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0306/0900766b80306517.pdf
                    > I found the reseller here in Czech Republic.
                    > I think about R.P.M and like to know what do you prefer.
                    > Thank You
                    >
                    > Martin
                    >

                    it is not listed in that pdf I think but it is very like
                    the one you see by searching "940D1001" in the pdf --
                    the one I got is called the "Epic Geared Motor 100:1"
                  • Jim Watters
                    ... How is this motor different from a motor inside a electric screwdriver. I got a cheap 7$ rechargeable electric screwdriver that has a similar looking motor
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 28, 2007
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                      panovrx wrote:
                      > I found a better motor for this kind of thing ---
                      >
                      > What is needed is an "epicyclic" gearhead motor. Like this
                      > http://www.rs-components.com.au/1/443716656-EPIC-GEARED-MOTOR-1001.html
                      > which has a concentric axis.
                      > I bought this one and it has lots of torque too, at convenient
                      > voltages.
                      >
                      > Peter
                      >
                      How is this motor different from a motor inside a electric screwdriver.
                      I got a cheap 7$ rechargeable electric screwdriver that has a similar
                      looking motor and gear setup. I am not sure about the gear ratio. But
                      it does have a fair amount of toque. It does spin quite fast with the
                      3.6 volts but at 1.5 it is much better.

                      I have done several trips to the local Remote Control hobby store and
                      for 59$ can get a two servos and control.
                      My preference is to use stepper motors instead of servos but I cant find
                      any locally. A stepper motor could be programed to turn x degrees with
                      every push of a button.

                      I am using Nikon D70 with 10.5 fisheye. I need to shoot more than a
                      single row.
                      I first want to be able to control tilt not pan. I am currently content
                      on turning the pole to control pan. It is still necessary to more
                      around the pole to avoid getting yourself in the shot anyway. Why not
                      rotate the pole while walking around it?
                      - To answer my on question some: I know that by constantly rotating and
                      shooting you can fire off many more shots a second. Thereby capturing a
                      smaller moment in time. I guess it comes down to vibration and what
                      shutter speed you are able to get away with?
                      > Here is a pano I did with it yesterday
                      > -- 10.5mm on 5D -- 4 shots mainly
                      > http://www.mediavr.com/citytosurf2006.htm
                      > at 3fps 2500th of a second at f4 approx at 320ASA
                      >
                      2500th is great but, when does things start to get soft?

                      I have an old cheap remote control car. I am going to try this remote
                      first. Use the remote to for tilt using the screwdriver motor and
                      triggering the camera.




                      --
                      Jim Watters

                      jwatters @ photocreations . ca
                      http://photocreations.ca
                    • Martin Hrdlicka
                      ... Thank you. This is page with table below with ratios and voltage referenced to rpm. http://www.panorama360.cz/motor/ I can not imagine which rotation speed
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 28, 2007
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                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > "Martin Hrdlicka" wrote:
                        >
                        > > Hello Peter,
                        > > which version have you bought ?
                        > > http://docs-
                        > asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0306/0900766b80306517.pdf
                        > > I found the reseller here in Czech Republic.
                        > > I think about R.P.M and like to know what do you prefer.
                        > > Thank You
                        > >
                        > > Martin
                        > >
                        >
                        > it is not listed in that pdf I think but it is very like
                        > the one you see by searching "940D1001" in the pdf --
                        > the one I got is called the "Epic Geared Motor 100:1"
                        >

                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > "Martin Hrdlicka" wrote:
                        >
                        > > Hello Peter,
                        > > which version have you bought ?
                        > > http://docs-
                        > asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0306/0900766b80306517.pdf
                        > > I found the reseller here in Czech Republic.
                        > > I think about R.P.M and like to know what do you prefer.
                        > > Thank You
                        > >
                        > > Martin
                        > >
                        >
                        > it is not listed in that pdf I think but it is very like
                        > the one you see by searching "940D1001" in the pdf --
                        > the one I got is called the "Epic Geared Motor 100:1"
                        >
                        Thank you. This is page with table below with ratios and voltage
                        referenced to rpm.

                        http://www.panorama360.cz/motor/

                        I can not imagine which rotation speed is usable for our pole pano
                        shooting.
                        The version 100:1 has more rovolutions peer minute than 516:1.
                        That is why I am a litlle bit confused..
                      • panovrx
                        ... wrote: This is page with table below with ratios and voltage ... If you mainly wanted to shoot continuous rotation, or manually
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 28, 2007
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                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Hrdlicka"
                          <martin.hrdlicka@...> wrote:
                          This is page with table below with ratios and voltage
                          > referenced to rpm.
                          >
                          > http://www.panorama360.cz/motor/
                          >
                          > I can not imagine which rotation speed is usable for our pole pano
                          > shooting.
                          > The version 100:1 has more rovolutions peer minute than 516:1.
                          > That is why I am a litlle bit confused..

                          If you mainly wanted to shoot continuous rotation, or manually advance
                          the camera quickly between positions -- then the 516:1 would be too
                          slow. But it would be good if you wanted to very carefully rotate the
                          camera to successive positions. Also it would have a very high torque
                          so would be good for when the pole is horizontal etc or the camera rig
                          is very heavy. The RPM spec seems correct on the 100:1 motor I bought
                          >
                        • panovrx
                          ... screwdriver. ... similar ... But ... the ... It would be the same I guess ... the electric screwdriver I tried didnt have any torque when I slowed it down
                          Message 12 of 23 , Feb 28, 2007
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                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Jim Watters <jwatters@...> wrote:

                            > How is this motor different from a motor inside a electric
                            screwdriver.
                            > I got a cheap 7$ rechargeable electric screwdriver that has a
                            similar
                            > looking motor and gear setup. I am not sure about the gear ratio.
                            But
                            > it does have a fair amount of toque. It does spin quite fast with
                            the
                            > 3.6 volts but at 1.5 it is much better.


                            It would be the same I guess ... the electric screwdriver I tried
                            didnt have any torque when I slowed it down enough
                            >
                            > I have done several trips to the local Remote Control hobby store
                            and
                            > for 59$ can get a two servos and control.
                            > My preference is to use stepper motors instead of servos but I cant
                            find
                            > any locally. A stepper motor could be programed to turn x degrees
                            with
                            > every push of a button.

                            It is easy to use a simple motor to manually advance the camera to
                            the right position approximately just by looking at it and holding
                            the motor button if precision isnt required (or by practising the
                            timing of how long to hold the button down) -- if the motor action
                            isnt too fast

                            > I am using Nikon D70 with 10.5 fisheye. I need to shoot more than
                            a
                            > single row.
                            > I first want to be able to control tilt not pan. I am currently
                            content
                            > on turning the pole to control pan. It is still necessary to more
                            > around the pole to avoid getting yourself in the shot anyway. Why
                            not
                            > rotate the pole while walking around it?

                            I get less parallax with a motorized camera rotator -- and it is
                            quicker and less obtrusive


                            > >
                            > 2500th is great but, when does things start to get soft?
                            >
                            http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/2593

                            Peter
                          • Juergen Schrader
                            From my own experience I would consider a drive that does about 1 round per second. Better less. To get enough torque this should be at around 10-12V, which
                            Message 13 of 23 , Feb 28, 2007
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                              From my own experience I would consider a drive that does about 1
                              round per second. Better less.
                              To get enough torque this should be at around 10-12V, which can
                              easily be achieved by soldering 8 to 10 cells into a pack (or buy one
                              from your local RC dealer).

                              I have bought 2 drives for testing here (the 1:100 and 1:200):
                              http://tinyurl.com/yps846

                              The challenge now is to assemble it with a plate with 4 tappets at
                              90° that would trigger a microswitch to fire the camera.

                              I agree with Peter that a gear with a centered shaft has some
                              advantages :)

                              Cheers
                              Jürgen

                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Martin
                              Hrdlicka" <martin.hrdlicka@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > "Martin Hrdlicka" wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > Hello Peter,
                              > > > which version have you bought ?
                              > > > http://docs-
                              > > asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0306/0900766b80306517.pdf
                              > > > I found the reseller here in Czech Republic.
                              > > > I think about R.P.M and like to know what do you prefer.
                              > > > Thank You
                              > > >
                              > > > Martin
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > it is not listed in that pdf I think but it is very like
                              > > the one you see by searching "940D1001" in the pdf --
                              > > the one I got is called the "Epic Geared Motor 100:1"
                              > >
                              >
                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > "Martin Hrdlicka" wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > Hello Peter,
                              > > > which version have you bought ?
                              > > > http://docs-
                              > > asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0306/0900766b80306517.pdf
                              > > > I found the reseller here in Czech Republic.
                              > > > I think about R.P.M and like to know what do you prefer.
                              > > > Thank You
                              > > >
                              > > > Martin
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > it is not listed in that pdf I think but it is very like
                              > > the one you see by searching "940D1001" in the pdf --
                              > > the one I got is called the "Epic Geared Motor 100:1"
                              > >
                              > Thank you. This is page with table below with ratios and voltage
                              > referenced to rpm.
                              >
                              > http://www.panorama360.cz/motor/
                              >
                              > I can not imagine which rotation speed is usable for our pole pano
                              > shooting.
                              > The version 100:1 has more rovolutions peer minute than 516:1.
                              > That is why I am a litlle bit confused..
                              >
                            • Roger Berry
                              Has anyone looked at the different battery operated barbeque rotisserie? This may be to slow but there s a lot of modules out there.
                              Message 14 of 23 , Feb 28, 2007
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                                Has anyone looked at the different battery operated barbeque rotisserie?
                                This may be to slow but there's a lot of modules out there.
                                http://www.sonofhibachionline.com/accessories.php

                                Roger Berry
                              • Carel
                                I found two very well made gearhead motors with a center shaft at the Robot Store: http://tinyurl.com/2guvt8 188:1 ratio http://tinyurl.com/ytuqo6 90:1
                                Message 15 of 23 , Apr 4 6:26 PM
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                                  I found two very well made gearhead motors with a center shaft at the Robot
                                  Store:
                                  http://tinyurl.com/2guvt8 188:1 ratio
                                  http://tinyurl.com/ytuqo6 90:1 ratio
                                  Their voltage range is 4.5v-24v, which is great for batteries and PWM speed
                                  controlling circuits.

                                  At the moment I am experimenting with the one that has a 90:1 ratio, which
                                  comes close to Peter Murphy's 100:1 motor. The motor seems to have no
                                  problem turning the 5D/10.5mm around, but I have to come up with a a way to
                                  take the downward and sideways stresses that are caused by the camera, off
                                  the motor's tiny (but high grade steel) spindle. Michel Thoby's solution of
                                  using a cheap electric screwdriver would take care of that, as the shaft is
                                  already built to take some abuse, but I cannot find any screwdriver that
                                  turns slow enough. The one I bought and disassembled still turns way too
                                  fast at 1volt, which is less than can be provided by one battery. I also
                                  prefer the superior quality of the Robot-store motors.

                                  I am curious how Peter Murphy and other gearheads have dealt with the
                                  "spindle-stress".

                                  Carel Struycken



                                  --
                                  View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/camera-spinner-mk3-tf2100739.html#a9848598
                                  Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                • Jim Watters
                                  ... Instead of putting the camera on the no-parallax-point put it on the center of gravity. If the center of gravity is too far from the npp then you could
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Apr 4 8:08 PM
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                                    Carel wrote:
                                    > I have to come up with a a way to take the downward and sideways
                                    > stresses that are caused by the camera, off the motor's tiny (but
                                    > high grade steel) spindle.
                                    >
                                    > I am curious how Peter Murphy and other gearheads have dealt with the
                                    > "spindle-stress".
                                    >
                                    > Carel Struycken
                                    >
                                    Instead of putting the camera on the no-parallax-point put it on the
                                    center of gravity. If the center of gravity is too far from the npp
                                    then you could try counter balancing the camera as long as it does not
                                    interfere with the view from the lens. When the camera is up a 5m pole
                                    the nearest object is likely at least 5m away. Parallax error will not
                                    be a big issue. Eliminating Camera shake or pole wabbel

                                    I salvaged a bunch of motors and gears from equipment that my work was
                                    sending away to be recycled. I am going to try putting a gear on the
                                    axis and the motor off center.

                                    --
                                    Jim Watters

                                    Yahoo ID: j1vvy ymsgr:sendIM?j1vvy
                                    jwatters @ photocreations . ca
                                    http://photocreations.ca
                                  • panovrx
                                    ... the Robot ... PWM speed ... They look like nice motors .. and cheap too. The similar one I bought and have been assembling had that spindle stress issue
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Apr 6 1:28 AM
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                                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carel <cs@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I found two very well made gearhead motors with a center shaft at
                                      the Robot
                                      > Store:
                                      > http://tinyurl.com/2guvt8 188:1 ratio
                                      > http://tinyurl.com/ytuqo6 90:1 ratio
                                      > Their voltage range is 4.5v-24v, which is great for batteries and
                                      PWM speed
                                      > controlling circuits.

                                      They look like nice motors .. and cheap too. The similar one I bought
                                      and have been assembling had that spindle stress issue too -- more
                                      like bearing stress. I fixed a collar around the shaft where it came
                                      out of the motor to support it some but it was still not enough with
                                      a 5D. Like you say, it needs some engineering to take the stress off
                                      the motor .. bearings in a cylinder, with some sort of shaft to
                                      transmit the torque from the motor ... that sort of thing.

                                      So I went back to my original more heavy duty motor, which has a
                                      slightly larger nadir profile, not being epicyclic.

                                      At 1 rev in 2 sec the wobble of a non-centre of gravity setup is not
                                      too bad (if the spindle stress issue is not wrecking the motor). At 1
                                      rev in 1 sec it is a major issue. Since I have been using the former
                                      speed lately for action sequences (= 6 shots at 3fps)
                                      it is not a problem really. It is very handy to have the lower
                                      parallax results -- often I use a monopod+motorized had at eyelevel
                                      where a centre of gravity approach would mean too much parallax

                                      Peter
                                    • panovrx
                                      ... often I use a monopod+motorized system at eyelevel ... like this one from today http://www.mediavr.com/jesus.htm this is actually a little below eye level
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Apr 6 8:01 AM
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                                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        often I use a monopod+motorized system at eyelevel
                                        > where a centre of gravity approach would mean too much parallax

                                        like this one from today
                                        http://www.mediavr.com/jesus.htm

                                        this is actually a little below eye level -- I am crouching at the base
                                        of the pole (an adapted Rode boom pole), wrapped around it
                                        .. it was quite poor light with hectic action
                                        1/2000th f4 7shots 10.5mm/5D 2seconds rotation

                                        Peter
                                      • Carel Struycken
                                        .....snip Like you say, it needs some engineering to take the stress off the motor .. bearings in a cylinder, with some sort of shaft
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Apr 6 8:12 AM
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                                          <quote author='panovrx'>
                                          .....snip
                                          Like you say, it needs some engineering to take the stress off
                                          the motor .. bearings in a cylinder, with some sort of shaft to
                                          transmit the torque from the motor ... that sort of thing.
                                          .....snip

                                          Peter

                                          </quote>

                                          Hi Peter,

                                          That is encouraging feedback. I did not know if I was being overly
                                          cautious, but it just did not feel right having the 5D pull on that
                                          spindle, even with the bearing I had added to take off some of the
                                          downward pressure. I think (at least on paper) I have the solution.
                                          There will be a 3/8" rod, with a thread at the top half to standardize
                                          whatever gets screwed in there. The unthreaded half will for the most
                                          part be inside a bronze sleave bearing, which will relieve the stress
                                          on the spindle of the sideways pulling of the camera. Then there will
                                          be a "thrust" bearing sitting on top of the bushing, which will take
                                          the weight of the camera off the spindle and transfer it to the
                                          housing in which the bushing is seated.
                                          A thrust bearing is the kind of bearing they use on a "lazy susan", in
                                          this instance a miniature one.
                                          A *very* rough sketch is here: www.sphericalpanoramas.com/motor.html
                                          I have a heavy duty bench drill, but I could not get an accurately
                                          enough centered hole in the rod for the spindle. I think it needs to
                                          be done with a mill. This will now all have to wait for a month, when
                                          I come back from the trip to Europe.

                                          Carel
                                        • dalileis
                                          Hi, Peter! The gadget certainly looks nice. But in the pano http://www.mediavr.com/citytosurf2006.htm there is a lot of banding in the sky. I experience
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Apr 6 2:12 PM
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                                            Hi, Peter!

                                            The gadget certainly looks nice. But in the pano
                                            http://www.mediavr.com/citytosurf2006.htm there is a lot of banding in
                                            the sky. I experience similar problems sometimes with D70 + Sigma 8mm,
                                            but I reckon this is easily avoidable with 5D and 10.5? Or am I
                                            missing some fact here? Otherwise lovely looking pano, especially
                                            under the conditions. By the way, I remember learning VR from your
                                            articles, thanks for those.

                                            On the side note...

                                            Who woulda ever thought Jook was in such a terrific shape? Must have
                                            trained for this like there's no tomorrow.

                                            ;)


                                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Here is another configuration of my camera spinner gadget
                                            > http://www.mediavr.com/cameraspinner3.jpg
                                            >
                                            > this has the advantage over previous versions of having a smaller nadir
                                            > visual profile -- also looks less visually conspicuous
                                            >
                                            > inside the tube are 3AA batteries and a 9V battery and relay for the
                                            > Zap-shot radio release --- which plugs in at the bottom. Or I can plug
                                            > in a mechanical switch. By pulling out the top I can change batteries
                                            > quickly
                                            >
                                            > This is shot with the camera in a no-parallax position. Which means it
                                            > is off-centre in terms of centre of gravity. So it wobbles a bit as it
                                            > spins. But I have decided that is not so bad as having parallax issues -
                                            > I just need to build up my camera-holding muscles some :-)
                                            >
                                            > Here is a pano I did with it yesterday -- 10.5mm on 5D -- 4 shots mainly
                                            > http://www.mediavr.com/citytosurf2006.htm at 3fps
                                            > 2500th of a second at f4 approx at 320ASA
                                            > these direct sun/crowd shots need careful shadow watching -- so that
                                            > you arent yourself shadowing some unretouchable area or standing on
                                            > someone's shadow
                                            >
                                            > Peter Murphy
                                            > http://www.mediavr.com/blog
                                            >
                                          • John Houghton
                                            ... The banding has nothing to do with the camera and lens. It s a workflow problem. The banding can easily arise when using image adjustment tools such as
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Apr 6 11:24 PM
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                                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "dalileis" <qtvrbiro@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > there is a lot of banding in the sky. I experience similar problems
                                              > sometimes with D70 + Sigma 8mm, but I reckon this is easily
                                              > avoidable with 5D and 10.5? Or am I missing some fact here?

                                              The banding has nothing to do with the camera and lens. It's a
                                              workflow problem. The banding can easily arise when using image
                                              adjustment tools such as levels or curves in 8 bit mode or by applying
                                              too much jpeg compression.

                                              John
                                            • dalileis
                                              I was also thinking along the lines of resolution being a factor. For example, if you compress the pano with the resolution of 10000 x 5000 px to jpeg, quality
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Apr 7 3:22 AM
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                                                I was also thinking along the lines of resolution being a factor. For
                                                example, if you compress the pano with the resolution of 10000 x 5000
                                                px to jpeg, quality 60 % or so, and apply the same jpeg compression to
                                                the pano with the resolution of 6000 x 3000 px, the pano that had the
                                                higher (true, sensor dependent, not Photoshoped, artificial, with made
                                                up pixels) resolution from the start may avoid banding, while the
                                                other lower-res one may not.

                                                Is this so?

                                                Since I know that the combo 5D + 10.5 does not offer specially
                                                high-res output (when compared with D200 + 10.5 for exemple) I was
                                                wondering if it the banding had to do with this or was mainly the
                                                question of workflow preferences, thus easily avoidable. It probably
                                                is completely avoidable, 5D + 10.5 is a superb combo, so no worries
                                                there, I don't think. Would have liked if there were some more pixels
                                                per inch from these two, however.

                                                Dalileis

                                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "John Houghton" <j.houghton@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "dalileis" <qtvrbiro@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > there is a lot of banding in the sky. I experience similar problems
                                                > > sometimes with D70 + Sigma 8mm, but I reckon this is easily
                                                > > avoidable with 5D and 10.5? Or am I missing some fact here?
                                                >
                                                > The banding has nothing to do with the camera and lens. It's a
                                                > workflow problem. The banding can easily arise when using image
                                                > adjustment tools such as levels or curves in 8 bit mode or by applying
                                                > too much jpeg compression.
                                                >
                                                > John
                                                >
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