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3 rows -- 8 images each -- what's the easy way?

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  • Ken Warner
    Because of my limited budget, I m using a compact camera with a .76 wide angle adapter. I shoot 8 around and have sufficent overlap. I shoot three rows --
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 22, 2008
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      Because of my limited budget, I'm using a compact camera
      with a .76 wide angle adapter. I shoot 8 around and have
      sufficent overlap. I shoot three rows -- top, middle, bottom
      8 images each row.

      To stitch, I auto generate CP's for each row then go back
      and make CP's by hand to join each image in the top row to the
      top of the middle and the bottom of the middle to the top
      of the bottom -- follow me so far :-)

      It works ok but is tedious. I'm using Hugin (budget photographer)
      and it stitches fine -- other than my massive parallax errors
      which are a whole other topic.

      Is there a better way to generate the CP's to join the
      three rows together. I tried to auto generate CP's two images
      at a time but I couldn't quite get that to work. I may try
      that again.

      I set the pitch to be 60; 0; -60 respectively for the images
      in the top, middle and bottom. I didn't set the yaw. Is
      there a way to set the yaw automatically for each image in
      each row and would that help? I'm just wondering if generating
      the CP's to join rows is the only way to do it.

      I'm using an NN3 so I'm close to the nodal point and it's
      all leveled well enough. Compact cameras just aren't made
      precise enough. My lens wobbles for one thing and it's not
      clear that the lens and sensor are lined up well. But thats
      another story.
    • paul womack
      ... I m not convinced of this; I m using a P&S (Canon powershot a630) and have done successful panos with zero parallax errors, also using Hugin. Why do you
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 24, 2008
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        Ken Warner wrote:
        > It works ok but is tedious. I'm using Hugin (budget photographer)
        > and it stitches fine -- other than my massive parallax errors
        > which are a whole other topic.
        ...>
        > I'm using an NN3 so I'm close to the nodal point and it's
        > all leveled well enough. Compact cameras just aren't made
        > precise enough. My lens wobbles for one thing and it's not
        > clear that the lens and sensor are lined up well. But thats
        > another story.

        I'm not convinced of this; I'm using a P&S (Canon powershot a630)
        and have done successful panos with zero parallax errors, also
        using Hugin.

        Why do you think your problems are due to camera errors,
        specifically?

        BugBear
      • paul womack
        ... Addendum; here s a screen size , cut-in-half due to hosting restrictions pano of my workshop:
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 24, 2008
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          paul womack wrote:
          > Ken Warner wrote:
          >> It works ok but is tedious. I'm using Hugin (budget photographer)
          >> and it stitches fine -- other than my massive parallax errors
          >> which are a whole other topic.
          > ...>
          >> I'm using an NN3 so I'm close to the nodal point and it's
          >> all leveled well enough. Compact cameras just aren't made
          >> precise enough. My lens wobbles for one thing and it's not
          >> clear that the lens and sensor are lined up well. But thats
          >> another story.
          >
          > I'm not convinced of this; I'm using a P&S (Canon powershot a630)
          > and have done successful panos with zero parallax errors, also
          > using Hugin.


          Addendum; here's a screen size , cut-in-half due to hosting restrictions
          pano of my workshop:

          http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/?action=view¤t=workshop.jpg

          it's 15x2 images, taken with 34 mm (35mm equivalent) lens.

          At optimise:

          average error: 0.6
          standard deviation: 0.33
          max error: 1.7

          BugBear

          BugBear
        • Ken Warner
          I think you missed my point (two) points. 1) Is there an easy way to make Hugin stitch three rows together other than the way I described. 2) I have massive
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 24, 2008
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            I think you missed my point (two) points.

            1) Is there an easy way to make Hugin stitch three
            rows together other than the way I described.

            2) I have massive parallax errors due to my own
            incompetence and cheap equipment.

            I never said my problems are due to camera errors.



            paul womack wrote:
            > Ken Warner wrote:
            >
            >>It works ok but is tedious. I'm using Hugin (budget photographer)
            >>and it stitches fine -- other than my massive parallax errors
            >>which are a whole other topic.
            >
            > ...>
            >
            >>I'm using an NN3 so I'm close to the nodal point and it's
            >>all leveled well enough. Compact cameras just aren't made
            >>precise enough. My lens wobbles for one thing and it's not
            >>clear that the lens and sensor are lined up well. But thats
            >>another story.
            >
            >
            > I'm not convinced of this; I'm using a P&S (Canon powershot a630)
            > and have done successful panos with zero parallax errors, also
            > using Hugin.
            >
            > Why do you think your problems are due to camera errors,
            > specifically?
            >
            > BugBear
            >
          • Seb Perez-D
            ... 1) Hugin stitched four rows without problems* in one go, nadir and zenith included, when I had to shoot that way (-90, -30, 30, 90). Some control points
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 24, 2008
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              On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 19:05, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...> wrote:
              > I think you missed my point (two) points.
              >
              > 1) Is there an easy way to make Hugin stitch three
              > rows together other than the way I described.
              >
              > 2) I have massive parallax errors due to my own
              > incompetence and cheap equipment.

              1) Hugin stitched four rows without problems* in one go, nadir and
              zenith included, when I had to shoot that way (-90, -30, 30, 90). Some
              control points were not good, but they were culled after optimisation.
              Some images, for lack of identifiable features, lacked control points,
              and had to be set manually. I don't think I did anything particular.
              For control point generation, have you tried match-n-shift for your
              images? this may allow you to correct a bit the distortion of your
              wide angle adapter.

              2) Parallax errors depend on the distance to the subjects, as you well
              know. Shoot easy, stitch easy, in a sense. Technique might help as
              well - have you tried something like a philopod? or like this:
              http://www.flickr.com/photos/sbprzd/270524077/

              Cheers,

              Seb
            • paul womack
              ... If that isn t a clear claim of a camera error, I apologise for misunderstanding. BugBear
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 25, 2008
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                Ken Warner wrote:
                > I think you missed my point (two) points.
                >
                > 1) Is there an easy way to make Hugin stitch three
                > rows together other than the way I described.
                >
                > 2) I have massive parallax errors due to my own
                > incompetence and cheap equipment.
                >
                > I never said my problems are due to camera errors.

                You said:

                >>> Compact cameras just aren't made
                >>> precise enough. My lens wobbles for one thing and it's not
                >>> clear that the lens and sensor are lined up well.


                If that isn't a clear claim of a camera error, I apologise
                for misunderstanding.

                BugBear
              • Atanas Minev
                Let me share my ultralow budget panorama making technique :) Example: http://pan0.net/pano/oj6g4 It s far from perfect, but it didn t much time to make either.
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 25, 2008
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                  Let me share my ultralow budget panorama making technique :)

                  Example:
                  http://pan0.net/pano/oj6g4
                  It's far from perfect, but it didn't much time to make either.

                  Equipment used:
                  Panasonic FZ8 with 18mm lens adapter

                  No tripod used (when you ride bike in the mountain and the trip is
                  long and the sun is hot every gram in your backpack seriously counts).
                  Pictures are shot with handheld camera.

                  Camera settings:
                  auto-bracketing - 3 shots per picture, auto exposure, auto focus

                  Shoot with sufficient overlap between pictures and try to move camera
                  between shots as little as possible. The objects here are distant so
                  there are almost no parallax errors.

                  Time to take this panorama:
                  a little more than 5 minutes

                  Software used:
                  Hugin, Autopano SIFT 2.3, QTFPSGUI, DOS Utilities for Panoramas, GIMP,
                  Resynthesizer plugin for GIMP

                  Computer:
                  HP Compaq laptop, Centrino 2GHz, 1GB RAM

                  Workflow:
                  Import pictures in Hugin, set lens parameters, set anchor image (this
                  is important - choose one from the middle row), play with optimizer
                  settings, reoptimize, remove bad control points, reoptimize again if
                  nessesary. When you get used it's not a long work and if you shot your
                  pictures properly rarely you must provide manual control points and
                  manual intervention in the process is minimal.
                  1. Stitch to a HDR image
                  2. Use QTFPSGUI to tonemap the HDR.
                  3. Use DOSUp to convert equirectangular to cubefaces
                  4. Post-process panorama errors in GIMP. Resynthesizer plugin is
                  particularly interesting for generating textures for problematic
                  zenith and nadir.
                  5. DOSUp - convert back to equirectangular
                  6. Do some final color finishing touches in GIMP

                  Voila, you have an immersive panorama :)

                  As a proof of concept I'm planning to shoot a panorama with a cheap cellphone.

                  I'm not trying to convince anyone that serious equipment is not
                  nessesary, just to show that panorama photography can be accessible to
                  anyone who wants to study it :)
                • Ken Warner
                  What is match-n-shift? I ve never seen a button in Hugin that says Match-n-Shift :-) The parallax errors I m getting are due to improper adjustment and cheap
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 25, 2008
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                    What is match-n-shift? I've never seen a button in
                    Hugin that says Match-n-Shift :-)

                    The parallax errors I'm getting are due to improper
                    adjustment and cheap equipment. I'm slowly working
                    toward an optimum adjustment.

                    I usually shoot cylindricals outside with a monopod and
                    parallax errors are much less a problem there because
                    there is nothing close -- usually.

                    Seb Perez-D wrote:
                    > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 19:05, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >>I think you missed my point (two) points.
                    >>
                    >>1) Is there an easy way to make Hugin stitch three
                    >>rows together other than the way I described.
                    >>
                    >>2) I have massive parallax errors due to my own
                    >>incompetence and cheap equipment.
                    >
                    >
                    > 1) Hugin stitched four rows without problems* in one go, nadir and
                    > zenith included, when I had to shoot that way (-90, -30, 30, 90). Some
                    > control points were not good, but they were culled after optimisation.
                    > Some images, for lack of identifiable features, lacked control points,
                    > and had to be set manually. I don't think I did anything particular.
                    > For control point generation, have you tried match-n-shift for your
                    > images? this may allow you to correct a bit the distortion of your
                    > wide angle adapter.
                    >
                    > 2) Parallax errors depend on the distance to the subjects, as you well
                    > know. Shoot easy, stitch easy, in a sense. Technique might help as
                    > well - have you tried something like a philopod? or like this:
                    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/sbprzd/270524077/
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    >
                    > Seb
                    >
                  • Ken Warner
                    That s pretty good! I know what you mean about carrying extra ounces in the pack. I walk around up here in Mammoth. Everything is uphill both ways :-)
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 25, 2008
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                      That's pretty good! I know what you mean about carrying
                      extra ounces in the pack. I walk around up here in Mammoth.
                      Everything is uphill both ways :-) Thanks for the tip
                      about that GIMP plugin. No way I can afford Photoshop...

                      Atanas Minev wrote:
                      > Let me share my ultralow budget panorama making technique :)
                      >
                      > Example:
                      > http://pan0.net/pano/oj6g4
                      > It's far from perfect, but it didn't much time to make either.
                      >
                      > Equipment used:
                      > Panasonic FZ8 with 18mm lens adapter
                      >
                      > No tripod used (when you ride bike in the mountain and the trip is
                      > long and the sun is hot every gram in your backpack seriously counts).
                      > Pictures are shot with handheld camera.
                      >
                      > Camera settings:
                      > auto-bracketing - 3 shots per picture, auto exposure, auto focus
                      >
                      > Shoot with sufficient overlap between pictures and try to move camera
                      > between shots as little as possible. The objects here are distant so
                      > there are almost no parallax errors.
                      >
                      > Time to take this panorama:
                      > a little more than 5 minutes
                      >
                      > Software used:
                      > Hugin, Autopano SIFT 2.3, QTFPSGUI, DOS Utilities for Panoramas, GIMP,
                      > Resynthesizer plugin for GIMP
                      >
                      > Computer:
                      > HP Compaq laptop, Centrino 2GHz, 1GB RAM
                      >
                      > Workflow:
                      > Import pictures in Hugin, set lens parameters, set anchor image (this
                      > is important - choose one from the middle row), play with optimizer
                      > settings, reoptimize, remove bad control points, reoptimize again if
                      > nessesary. When you get used it's not a long work and if you shot your
                      > pictures properly rarely you must provide manual control points and
                      > manual intervention in the process is minimal.
                      > 1. Stitch to a HDR image
                      > 2. Use QTFPSGUI to tonemap the HDR.
                      > 3. Use DOSUp to convert equirectangular to cubefaces
                      > 4. Post-process panorama errors in GIMP. Resynthesizer plugin is
                      > particularly interesting for generating textures for problematic
                      > zenith and nadir.
                      > 5. DOSUp - convert back to equirectangular
                      > 6. Do some final color finishing touches in GIMP
                      >
                      > Voila, you have an immersive panorama :)
                      >
                      > As a proof of concept I'm planning to shoot a panorama with a cheap cellphone.
                      >
                      > I'm not trying to convince anyone that serious equipment is not
                      > nessesary, just to show that panorama photography can be accessible to
                      > anyone who wants to study it :)
                      >
                    • Bruno Postle
                      ... It s a wrapper around lots of other tools that does the same job as autopano-sift-c, panomatic etc... You can configure it in the hugin preferences,
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 25, 2008
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                        On Tue 25-Nov-2008 at 04:18 -0800, Ken Warner wrote:
                        >What is match-n-shift? I've never seen a button in
                        >Hugin that says Match-n-Shift :-)

                        It's a wrapper around lots of other tools that does the same job as
                        autopano-sift-c, panomatic etc... You can configure it in the hugin
                        preferences, probably.

                        It uses a conformal transformation for generating feature
                        descriptors so you get a good spread of points, copes very well with
                        handheld bracketed panoramas, and tries to clean-up bad
                        control-points as a final step in a manner similar to APClean.

                        It's also very slow ;-) but I'd rather wait than get bad results
                        fast.

                        --
                        Bruno
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